A tough day with poplar

[David Kenagy]

I picked up rough poplar to make drawer interiors for a big built-in. The yard only had 4/4 stock. I wanted them down to 5/8”, so after jointing one side flat, I used a band saw (1.25” carbide-toothed blade) to remove most of the waste. I figured this would be easy because I just got the resharpened blade back from Laguna.

Well, it was slow going! It took three minutes to saw a board 4.5” wide, 20” long. The surfaces were quite smooth, but singed. There was no way I could continue with the 55 remaining sides and backs. So I turned to the planer.

The DeWalt 735 had recently undergone replacement of the cutter (LuxCut helical head). The first 16 boards went easily, with nice results. I lowered the cutter by 1/3rd of a turn after each pass (my usual). But then the internal circuit-breaker flipped. It took a long time to get the motor to run again, and when it did, the feed rollers weren’t working. I found the drive belt half melted way, and torn for the rest of its width. So the motor spins but nothing else does, till I get a new belt.

Is this a lesson that poplar is more difficult to work than I knew? Has anybody got any advice?

[Zachary Hoyt]

The blade is messed up, a sharp blade should make a cut like that much faster. The burnt look is telling you that the teeth are dull, creating heat. I would do that kind of cut with a 1/2" 3 TPI blade, it will not be quite as smooth but the kerf is a lot narrower so it should cut faster.

[Matthew Hills]

is your blade upside down?

[Art Mann]

Poplar is soft and is normally quite easy to work with. I suspect equipment problems.

[Bruce King]

The planer could have a loose motor pulley or when you installed the new cutter you got the pulley backwards or the bushing behind it backwards.

[Jim Becker]

Something is very much amiss with the bandsaw...I vote to check that the blade isn't on upside down, too. Teeth should be pointing in the direction the band moves...downward where they engage the wood.

[Jim Dwight]

Poplar works essentially the same as softwood. So no, it is not difficult to cut or plane. I know nothing about helical heads but is it possible the helical cutter takes more power? I don't think so, what I read suggests it takes less. I've only recently upgraded to a better bandsaw but I've already cut over 5 inch slices of a pine scrap with a 1/2 3tpi blade and it went through it easily - I would expect poplar to cut the same. But I'm not sure I would cut it down with the bandsaw if I was removing only 1/8. If I had a good resaw blade I guess I might. But my little lunchbox planner would take that eighth off easily. And I can sharpen those blades.

[Erik Loza]

100% that it’s an equipment issue. Like others have mentioned, I suspect either upside-down or extremely dull BS blade and maybe you were trying to remove too much stock per pass on the new cutterhead. Helicals/spirals are not capable of removing as much stock per pass as a straight-knife head and benchtop-style machines exaggerate that. I would obviously get a replacement belt but try creeping up on a good cut depth once it’s running again. Poplar should be very easy to machine. Good luck with everything.

Erik

[Frank Pratt]

Even my 1.5 HP Rikon band saw would make that cut in a fraction of the time. I agree with blade issues.

[Ron Selzer]

100% that it’s an equipment issue. Like others have mentioned, I suspect either upside-down or extremely dull BS blade and maybe you were trying to remove too much stock per pass on the new cutterhead. Helicals/spirals are not capable of removing as much stock per pass as a straight-knife head and benchtop-style machines exaggerate that. I would obviously get a replacement belt but try creeping up on a good cut depth once it’s running again. Poplar should be very easy to machine. Good luck with everything.

Erik

Erik, first I heard about the helical not capable of removing as much per cut. Very interested as I have an 8" helical jointer in the crate waiting on me. Have only used straight knives in the past. Would you please expand on the difference between the different heads. I bought for reduced noise per wife request. Looking to change one 12" planer over in the future. One Benchtop, two floor machines.
Thank you
Ron

Already familiar with cut quality, noise and knife discussion.

[David Kenagy]

No, the blade wasn’t upside down. I was taking off 3/8” to get a 4/4 board down to 5/8”.

It is a “resaw” blade, but it had just been sharpened. The steel band is 1/64” thick, and the carbide teeth are 1/32”. (I don’t know what they used to be). If there’s no kerf, then the gap between the kerf side and steel blade is 1/128”.

Maybe you can’t resharpen these blades?
Maybe a resaw blade assumes a thin (flexible) veneer is coming off one side, relieving any friction? (Wrong blade for the job?)

I thought I might have filed them off by setting the ceramic guides incorrectly, but the blade is so wide that the teeth just can’t get to the ceramics.

As for the planer, maybe I didn’t re-seat the belt correctly. I have heard that the helical head requires a smaller cut with each pass, but I thought my ‘standard’ cut was already conservative.

[Ben Grefe]

Maybe you can’t resharpen these blades?
Maybe a resaw blade assumes a thin (flexible) veneer is coming off one side, relieving any friction? (Wrong blade for the job?)

I thought I might have filed them off by setting the ceramic guides incorrectly, but the blade is so wide that the teeth just can’t get to the ceramics.

As for the planer, maybe I didn’t re-seat the belt correctly. I have heard that the helical head requires a smaller cut with each pass, but I thought my ‘standard’ cut was already conservative.


Few notes that came to my mind.

1) A 1.25 inch blade on a bandsaw is HUGE. You must have a big saw. I run a 17 inch 2hp Grizzly and hesitate to run a 1 inch blade, I find a 3/4 is really better suited as the max size. Tensioning a bigger blade is a problem, as is the power to run it.

2) A resaw blade isn't just for veneer. Heck, it's meant to do what you're doing. If the blade is burning then it's a equipment problem. Maybe it's not tracking straight through the work, dull, etc. Not sure about sharpening carbide bandsaw blades...

3) Helical heads supposedly require more power to run in a planer or jointer. I've converted a jointer from straight knife to helical and frankly never noticed the need for more power, but maybe it's true if you're on the hairy edge of acceptable. Planers aren't really made to jam material through anyways (huge depth of cut), so I don't think, for a model like your Dewalt, that the head mades any difference to depth of cut allowance.

[Erik Loza]

Erik, first I heard about the helical not capable of removing as much per cut. Very interested as I have an 8" helical jointer in the crate waiting on me. Have only used straight knives in the past. Would you please expand on the difference between the different heads..

Ron, the reason is amount of knife projection out of the cutterhead. Straight-knife heads (except Tersa) have a lot more knife sticking out from the OD of the cutterhead than spirals/helicals do. Can remove more material in a pass but louder/rougher/etc.

Erik

[Andrew Hughes]

Carbide insert heads cut with a high angle it’s really more of a scraping cut. Very small forward rake compared to knifes in a jointer or planer. If you look closely at a bryd head you will see a 30 degree face bevel on the insert. This acts like a chip breaker curling the cut up.
one comparison is the blade in your or my miter saw has very little forward compared to my table saw blade.
Carbide also doesn’t get nearly as sharp as high speed steel. But can handle to friction from the scraping cut.
I prefer high speed steel in my jointer because I feed a variety of woods by hand. And I don’t like to add pressure on the wood I’m trying to face.
Thats my un scientific position on this topic.

Good Luck

[Ron Selzer]

Ron, the reason is amount of knife projection out of the cutterhead. Straight-knife heads (except Tersa) have a lot more knife sticking out from the OD of the cutterhead than spirals/helicals do. Can remove more material in a pass but louder/rougher/etc.

Erik

Thanks, that makes sense
Ron

[Earl McLain]

That blade sharpening sounds exactly like what i got back from Laguna a few months ago. Mine was in MUCH better shape when i sent it off a few months prior. I mailed it well-cushioned, it came back in the same box--but beat to a pulp, and no form of cushioning. after really burning some cherry as a test resaw, i switched to a 2 x 4 with the same result. Couldn't cross cut a 3/4" walnut pen blank. I was too angry to pursue with them, but should have. Their new sharpening service in the Carolina's may be lacking in skill. Good luck.
earl

[John Lanciani]

Laguna strikes again. A sharp blade of that size on a capable saw should be cutting a 4.5” poplar board at +/- 1 inch per second with no burning... (the wood or the operator:rolleyes:)

[Bruce King]

Copied this picture from somewhere. This is probably how they sharpened it which could work fine with practice.

[Bradley Gray]

I am having trouble understanding why you would resaw these boards instead of just planing to 5/8".

Do you have a use for the cut-off?

I can plane off 3/8" in 2 passes

[Mel Fulks]

I don't know how band saws are sharpened now. Looking on line I see only Dremels and such. Mid 60's ,a place I worked
had a machine with a ratchet to move and sharpen one-tooth-atta-time. It stood on a cast iron stand with three legs, the
band would travel horizontally supported on wooden saw horses. I mention it just because I can't find pics. Are those
things still used ? Human set it up ,then the machine worked alone.

[Rod Sheridan]

Something is really wrong with that blade, you’re cutting at 1/10 normal speed....Regards, Rod

[Matt Day]

I am having trouble understanding why you would resaw these boards instead of just planing to 5/8".

Do you have a use for the cut-off?

I can plane off 3/8" in 2 passes

I agree that re-saving that little off isn’t the best option. Especially because removing a big chunk off one side is asking the board to move and not stay flat.

Regardless, the OP clearly is having BS problems. My guess is a bad or backward blade. Pictures would be helpful.

[David Kenagy]

Laguna sent me an message that answers the bandsaw problem.

They set their sharpening machine incorrectly. All blades sharpened during that time have the teeth “proud of the actual cutting edge”. That would act much like a blade inserted backwards.

They’re sending a new blade.

[Jim Becker]

Laguna sent me an message that answers the bandsaw problem.

They set their sharpening machine incorrectly. All blades sharpened during that time have the teeth “proud of the actual cutting edge”. That would act much like a blade inserted backwards.

They’re sending a new blade.

'Glad the issue has been identified...it really did point to the blade...and is being rectified!

[Brian Tymchak]

Laguna sent me an message that answers the bandsaw problem.

They set their sharpening machine incorrectly. All blades sharpened during that time have the teeth “proud of the actual cutting edge”. That would act much like a blade inserted backwards.

They’re sending a new blade.

Good to hear that Laguna is stepping up to assure you and others are being taken of.

I guess I would have expected that some nominal inspection of the blade after sharpening would have revealed that issue. Hopefully they have also solved their process problem.

[Melvin Feng]

I'm glad that Laguna is taking care of you with that blade. Since you had it sent out for sharpening, you know exactly how well it can cut when it is sharp. I also have the 1.25" resaw king on my Laguna 18 BX, and when it is sharp, it cuts amazingly well on anything I can put through it (I don't really do any super dense exotics, the most I've resawn is about 15.5" of dried red oak, but it actually scares me a bit with how easily it cut through it).

I actually keep two resaw kings on hand, so that when I send one out to be sharpened, I have another to rotate in. If I also do something that destroys the blade, I have a spare to put on right away (though I hope this never happens!)

I always know when the resaw king is becoming dull though - it actually requires pressure to feed into the blade, and it begins drifting on me. When the resaw king is sharp, it barely takes any force to feed it, and it cuts as straight as I can keep the wood!

I'm glad they also figured out what was wrong with their sharpening machine, as I'll be sending in one of mine at some point in the future.