Pros and Cons of building with plans

[Bruce King]

How do you build? Buy plans, computer aided sketch or figure as you go?
I prefer to figure an overall size and make pencil sketches that are just a few inches in size showing some joinery detail. Then make a list of parts but only cut a few at a time. I end up with a few pages of dimensions, math equations, cut diagrams and little drawings by the time I’m finished building.
Sometimes I record the final dimensions of each part with notes when I’m done.

[glenn bradley]

I do my own designs so, SketchUp. If you buy plans the pro would be that it gives you a good starting point. The con would be following too closely and ending up with parts that don't fit well or at all. At some point in the construction I start to measure off the piece, not the plans even though I build an SU Scene with all the parts and dimensions.

[Mark Bolton]

The only cons to building with highly detailed plans are #1 your projects get done 20x faster with far little waste.. and then over time,.. your brain becomes soft at doing all the math on-the-fly required to working without plans/take-offs/cutlists. I was always a mixed bag, a lot of plans, a bit of takeoffs, very few highly detailed cutlists. Many years ago started with CAD/Excel cutlists, then into 3D drawings and cutlists exports, now to CNC and pretty much nothing goes to the shop without a full set of drawings (super fast). I often find myself in the shop now cursing myself because I could always take 34 11/16 subtract 6 5/8, add twice the cutter width, on the fly, and now I just sit there staring at the sheet making a note as to why I dont include that data on the export.

We cut parts for an older guy who can build an entire kitchen and cut all the parts in his head. Its so standardized for him its just second nature. The problem is the split second a job is not "in his standard".. he's crippled. Nothing in my world is remotely standard. And I need speed, and I need to show the product to the customer, architect, contractor, for approval before I build it.

Building on the fly is only good in very very few situations... most of which (unless your lucky enough to be on a blank check), dont get much done in the hour.

[Jim Becker]

Early on, I built some projects from plans and it was a good decision...I learned some things I hadn't experienced yet and it also helped me to get better at visualizing how to take a pile 'o parts and turn them into a (hopefully) pleasing end result. At this point, I really haven't built anything from a plan, per se, for a very long time. If I'm making something for another maker, as I sometimes do with my business, I do ask for and expect clear specifications. But for projects I'm doing from scratch, I determine the general dimensions and work from there. By general dimensions, I mean things like finished width, depth and height, general spacing of features, size-cross section of things like legs if that applies, etc. Anything that's "critical" to nail from a measurement standpoint. Everything that comes between these overall specifications is measured "on" the project so exact lengths and other dimensions are assigned based on the actual spacing of things. I'll start with a "back of napkin" sketch or similar or a photo.

I no longer draw out formal plans, although for things that will be partially built with components made on my CNC machine, I do have to draw and program the necessary tool path information. An example of that was my workbench top. It was assembled using traditional methods and glue, but all of the dog holes were created on the CNC machine. So I did pre-plan for that in the computer. My guitars are also rendered in software first...much cheaper than destroying expensive lumber. :)

One of the major benefits of the way that I've gravitated to working is that it makes you actually think about what you are creating. Plans from somewhere else are nice, but plans are not always accurate. They may not fully embrace what you want to end up with, either. But they can be a good starting point. Again, I view them as a learning tool. At least for me.

[Mark Bolton]

Plans from somewhere else are nice, but plans are not always accurate. They may not fully embrace what you want to end up with, either. But they can be a good starting point.

Good point. Post may need a subdivision between developing your own set of plans for your own, or a customer concept, or purchasing a set of plans from someone else. Ive never done the latter...

[Bruce King]

One of my first projects was a router cabinet and used plans. It was a constant “checking the plan” because I can’t stand mistakes. This plan used a lot of hardwood but 27 years later it’s still good except for the crappy stain job I put on it. I never used plans again but like looking at them to see if there are any errors. I can’t help it, spent my whole life finding problems and fixing them then got into inspecting which was right up my alley.

[Mark Bolton]

One of my first projects was a router cabinet and used plans. It was a constant “checking the plan” because I can’t stand mistakes. This plan used a lot of hardwood but 27 years later it’s still good except for the crappy stain job I put on it. I never used plans again but like looking at them to see if there are any errors. I can’t help it, spent my whole life finding problems and fixing them then got into inspecting which was right up my alley.

So you have an issue with trusting others and have to be the final say so... so does that mean if you took the time to think your way through developing a set of plans yourself you would "still" second guess it all for mistakes because that is a ritual in your life? Or would you trust your own set of plans enough to simply enjoy the enjoyment of moving ahead with reckless speed and a complete lack of material waste? Some people simply cant get free of their ritual so everything must take an eternity and include volumes of wasted materials, and time.

Either is fine as long as your truly at peace with the process... For me at least, ritual, in anyones life, should be stomped out with the utmost of force. Ritual = the utmost of hackerdom for the sake of perceived sanity.

[Jim Dwight]

It depends on the project. I will buy plans that are close to what I want to get ideas and hopefully avoid some issues. But I won't build to those plans. I may pencil in some changes and use them but I almost never build exactly what is on the plans. I like some chairs from a Woodsmith plan, for instance, but they are too short to suit me. So I make them an inch or more taller. Minor change. But then you have to decide whether to move the stretchers too. My son-in-law broke one in cherry, however. So when I make myself some more, I will probably increase the size of the legs and stretchers - beef them up a little.

I built a base cabinet for storage in my great room. It is 7 feet long to fit the space and 22 inches wide for the same reason and so I could make the top out of a couple 1x12s. The room is paneled with 50 year old softwood and I wanted the cabinet to blend in. I put together a sketch of the front with my parallel board to make sure I like the proportions. I included a few dimensions. Then I built it. I almost never build without the sketch to check proportions. But often that is all I do.

[Bruce King]

So you have an issue with trusting others and have to be the final say so... so does that mean if you took the time to think your way through developing a set of plans yourself you would "still" second guess it all for mistakes because that is a ritual in your life? Or would you trust your own set of plans enough to simply enjoy the enjoyment of moving ahead with reckless speed and a complete lack of material waste? Some people simply cant get free of their ritual so everything must take an eternity and include volumes of wasted materials, and time.

Either is fine as long as your truly at peace with the process... For me at least, ritual, in anyones life, should be stomped out with the utmost of force. Ritual = the utmost of hackerdom for the sake of perceived sanity.

Not at all, I wasted only one half a board foot on my last three projects.
And, yes there was a mistake on the plans I used for the router cabinet but I found it before any issue arises. Works for me.

[Ron Citerone]

Never used plans actually, but I made detailed sketches from existing pieces of furniture, which is kind of the same thing IMO. Presently I build usng my own sketches starting with overal dimensions and going from there.

But it doesn't matter what I or anyone else does. Every woodworker should do what "feels" right for their experience level. Also read books with good drawings and study the drawings carefully. For beginners, any of the good box making books have lots of info and drawings. For Furniture folks I love the Glen Huey's Illustrated Guide fo Building Period Furniture. Great step by step text along with excellent plans and cut lists. I didn't make any of the pieces in the book, but referred to his drawings many times when I made some pieces. Then their is the internet..............

The one con of plans with cut lists is one change early on for whatever reason, can change many other things as you progress through a project. Also, I like to make door panels and drawer fronts without gluing up if possible so I change some things according to the wood at hand.

[Stan Calow]

Early on, I just tried to wing it, making my own sketches and sometimes based on the materials I had in hand. But, as a hobbyist, I found that I needed to work from plans (including magazine articles) in order to avoid mistakes. Usually, tweaking the dimensions to suit my purposes, but otherwise working from plans helped me avoid mistakes, not just in proportions, but in technique as well. On my own, I would find there were reasons why some things were done certain ways, and seeing the plans and knowing someone else had worked through it already, made it simpler for me.

[Jim Becker]

Stan, what you describe really isn't anything to do with you being a "hobbyist". It's just a matter of what you experienced and what you felt comfortable with. The fact that you're willing to tweak what's on a plan is evidence that you moved up while still taking comfort with having that plan there to help guide you. It reinforces my point above that plans can be part of the learning process. But I'll add that everyone learns at a different rate. And that's ok!

[mike stenson]

Pretty much everything I make these days is largely hand tool made. So every part tends to be relative to it's mates, which means things like cut-lists and complete plans are just a non-starter for me anyway.

So... I'll sketch out a drawing, with proportions and over all sizes. Then, I'll plan locations for dados and rabbits, etc.. but that's about as far as that goes as the stock will somewhat vary anyway.

[Larry Frank]

I generally do a few hand drawings and use them to make up a cut list. If I am using rough cut or skip planed wood, I lay boards out and chalk the parts out on them. It helps get the best grain on the right parts and avoids wasting wood. I mark all the boards with part numbers. With a small project, it is not necessary but with a big project, I need to do it. Wood is not cheap and I do not want to waste it.

[Mel Fulks]

For me at least, ritual, in anyones life, should be stomped out with the utmost of force. Ritual = the utmost of hackerdom for the sake of perceived sanity.

you might prefer another word ,but the "power of habit" is nessesary. I've had people tell me I made mistake on a drawing. Mel says "no ,I did not". Some guys like to call a formal period detail " a mistake".

[roger wiegand]

So what is a "plan"? I make drawings, then add overall dimensions, then add dimensions of key details-- I'll often draw versions with different proportions several times to try to get them right on paper prior to building to double check my assumptions about what is going to look good. These days I almost never draw joinery, there just doing what makes sense works just fine without having to draw it out. I've never built anything from a published plan but I do generally start with 3-6 photos of pieces that have elements and overall shapes I like as "inspiration" for what I end up sketching. Often a particular piece of wood dictates important elements of the final shape of the piece. Curves on pieces are frequently adjusted "on the fly" to look best with the patterns in the grain.

So I do a lot of planning of pieces, and I do make sure they will fit the spot they need to go or will contain that which they are intended to contain. I never get to the point of having something that looks like a blueprint or that you could feed to a CNC device or even hand to another person and expect to get exactly the same piece back. Do I use "plans"? I'm not sure.

[Stan Calow]

Stan, what you describe really isn't anything to do with you being a "hobbyist". It's just a matter of what you experienced and what you felt comfortable with. The fact that you're willing to tweak what's on a plan is evidence that you moved up while still taking comfort with having that plan there to help guide you. It reinforces my point above that plans can be part of the learning process. But I'll add that everyone learns at a different rate. And that's ok!
Jim, I throw that in a lot, because I think the answer to a lot of questions is different whether you're a pro or hobbyist. If you make a lot of the same or similar things you might not need someone else's plans. You can size things or figure out joints from experience. Most of the things I've done have been one-time projects, or sufficiently different that plans help me learn from experienced others what works and looks good. I know if I follow a plan, it will look good, and there were reasons for how it was done that way.

[Jim Becker]

Repetitive work can certainly help with the "woodworking muscle". But I'll bring up that many of us who do work for others are not involved in repetitive work; rather, we're doing one-off projects just like you mention you are doing. Other than my tack trunks (which vary in features) and some components I cut for another maker on the CNC, every single project is something "new" or different in some way from previous efforts.

But please don't misunderstand me, either. Working from a plan is a perfectly sane approach for anyone...even a so-called professional. Just be sure to be honing your skills and more importantly, your mind, so that if your next project isn't supported by a plan, you can be confident in working things out. That may even mean building a full or partial prototype, too. I've done that for some tricky things, particular where some funky angles were involved. I'd rather "waste" some inexpensive stuff to build a "working plan", aka a prototype when it makes sense. Plans are not just on paper. :D

[Ralph Okonieski]

I do not purchase plans, although I have and do use magazine plans and cultists. Even then, I generally sketch it roughly and re-calculate dimensions as there have been errors in some I’ve seen. If the idea does not come from a magazine, I draw it roughly probably a few times, depending on complexity of joints, from different views. As Glenn said, at some point in the building phase, I measure from the piece itself, but then compare to the plan looking for acceptable differences. This is to avoid big errors that waste material. For example, I may draw the plan to use a 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 piece for a corner, but I may stop at 1-5/16 if the milling looks excellent. This may then require shortening a different component by 1/16 or it may not. It just depends.

[Bruce King]

So what is a "plan"? I make drawings, then add overall dimensions, then add dimensions of key details-- I'll often draw versions with different proportions several times to try to get them right on paper prior to building to double check my assumptions about what is going to look good. These days I almost never draw joinery, there just doing what makes sense works just fine without having to draw it out. I've never built anything from a published plan but I do generally start with 3-6 photos of pieces that have elements and overall shapes I like as "inspiration" for what I end up sketching. Often a particular piece of wood dictates important elements of the final shape of the piece. Curves on pieces are frequently adjusted "on the fly" to look best with the patterns in the grain.

So I do a lot of planning of pieces, and I do make sure they will fit the spot they need to go or will contain that which they are intended to contain. I never get to the point of having something that looks like a blueprint or that you could feed to a CNC device or even hand to another person and expect to get exactly the same piece back. Do I use "plans"? I'm not sure.
I should have made it clearer in the OP that “plans” are plans made by someone else.
I see most of us do not use published plans or even ones that are tweaked.
I have often changed my own plan by 1/64 to 1/8 to accommodate or get rid of something on an edge inherent in the wood or a missed line cut on the miter saw. I don’t think sitting at the computer for hours making a drawing is going to save me any time. If my profession had been CAD work I would look at it differently.

[Andrew Hughes]

I also don’t build from measured drawings. If it’s that critical or unfamiliar I will build the piece from Popler to get any detail I need figured out.
A full sized drawing on my assembly table is about as close as I get to a measured drawing.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I sometimes draw part of a project to scale on graph paper, but mostly I know the outside dimensions or other specifications that are required and make everything else fit them, in my head as I go. My biggest problem is forgetting a requirement. I have taken to printing a list of attributes for each month's instruments so I can pin it on the wall in the shop and look at it often. Once I forgot that a banjo neck was to have a bound fretboard until the neck was assembled, so I had to pull the frets, cut a ledge all the way along both sides, put in the binding, level the binding and put the frets back in, and it was all much harder than it would have been if I had remembered what I was doing and bound the fretboard at the right time. No material was wasted, but a lot of time was.

[John Goodin]

I don’t use plans and really enjoy the figure it out as you go process. However, I look at lots of images online and really life examples and incorporate various elements. It is close as I will ever get to being a creative.

[Mel Fulks]

My post was not on point since it was more about directions to be followed by product buyer than builder. I'm sorry.
Ive seen some really botched installs on things I made. In one case an elliptical cased opening I sold with
carefully written install instructions was installed with the highest point of the jamb head ...where the "spring-line"
should have been. It looked like a really big dog house door. But our contractor-customer was the buyer, and we had been paid. So I was out of it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Bruce, it depends upon what I’m building.

Something simple, maybe just a few measurements on a pad.

More complicated will be drawings down to the component level, I can’t remember ever purchasing plans, I would make my own at the drafting table, now on the computer....Rod.

[Doug Dawson]

I should have made it clearer in the OP that “plans” are plans made by someone else.
I see most of us do not use published plans or even ones that are tweaked.
I have often changed my own plan by 1/64 to 1/8 to accommodate or get rid of something on an edge inherent in the wood or a missed line cut on the miter saw. I don’t think sitting at the computer for hours making a drawing is going to save me any time. If my profession had been CAD work I would look at it differently.

Is a story stick a plan? Even with a one-off project, it can help to machine and coordinate parts, easily helping with dimensional changes of components (e.g. with hand planing, do I _really_ have to make that part 3/4” thick? etc.)

They can also be a surprisingly powerful tool for visualization, giving you a sense of scale for various aspects of the project.

[Jack Llewyllson]

Either is fine as long as your truly at peace with the process... For me at least, ritual, in anyones life, should be stomped out with the utmost of force. Ritual = the utmost of hackerdom for the sake of perceived sanity.

This is a really interesting comment, Mark.

Personally, I enjoy ritual and find that it gives me peace -- starting with the ritual of making morning coffee, and bringing some to my sweetie. It's taken me years to start incorporating mindful awareness of my own sensations and behaviors into my process. I was very suspicious of it, yet increasingly I don't regret the inefficiency it brings to my life. Even something as simple as feeding the dog is a richer experience when I pause to look into her fuzzy face and and appreciate how much she's anticipating her chow. I even finally learned to enjoy sharpening (a formerly annoying time waster) by appreciating the edge as it comes up to a gleam.

OTOH, I don't make a living with my woodworking, and I do understand the necessity to balance awareness against a sense of urgency in a professional environment. For me, right now, ritual serves two purposes: it settles my mind and lets me enjoy what I'm doing with less hard-driven panic about outcomes, and it reminds me to "checklist" my process as I go. For me, those checks along the way result in fewer errors and less re-work.

That having been said, my project plans often are literally "sketchy," and if I could get away without drawing anything, I probably would. ;)

[Doug Dawson]

This is a really interesting comment, Mark.

Personally, I enjoy ritual and find that it gives me peace -- starting with the ritual of making morning coffee, and bringing some to my sweetie.

Ritual can be good! I start each day with a prayer to my wife, who is a Goddess, the bringer of peace (and coffee.)

[Alex Zeller]

I usually just work from the top of my head and then draw something up so I can figure out how much I need of what. But there's times when I do use plans, or at least parts of a plan. For example making a frame for a king size bed. I can come up with my own design but I might look at someone elses plan to see what they think is the right size wood. On a bed frame the rails come to mind. If you aren't sure if a cherry 1x6 will span the 80" needed for the side rails I might take a look for a plan vs ask a question here and wait for an answer. I personally ask a lot of others here so I try not to ask the simple questions unless I can't find an answer by searching. Being a hobbyist it's easier for me not to work with plans as time isn't "money" and if I get it wrong (and the side rail on the bed can't hold the weight) I'm not a business so I don't have to worry about liability like a business would.

[David Utterback]

The product just seems more 'mine' when it comes from my head. I rarely draw more than a sketch but often feel bad about this after taking so long to get it done.

[Mark Bolton]

Personally, I enjoy ritual and find that it gives me peace -- starting with the ritual of making morning coffee, and bringing some to my sweetie. ~ Even something as simple as feeding the dog is a richer experience when I pause to look into her fuzzy face and and appreciate how much she's anticipating her chow. ~ OTOH, I don't make a living with my woodworking

I think you've pretty much summed up the ultimate joys, and frustrations, of life. Yet perhaps intermingled routine, and ritual. Routines are things like we all put our underwear on before our pants (our outerwear). You always wipe your butt after you poop. Thats a routine. A ritual is something you do, without consideration for its efficiency, inefficiency, practicality, profit, or loss, because "NOT" completing that action causes you neurotic collapse. That is the simple determination of ritual. I love dogs and loved my dogs, makind their morning meal (or the every plate I make for dog to this day after dinner) even when the dog is dead,.. thats a ritual. Realizing the dog lived its life and has now passed, an no longer making that dogs bowl of food or leftovers speaks to a routine. Horrifically miserable thought but the same applies with a 300x fold of misery for making ones "sweetie" a cup of coffee. Thats a routine. Hellatious thought of the day that person is gone and you do it anyway, your in ritual.

We all have routine. I even seek to stomp out routine. Ordering the same thing at a given restaurant every single time and never trying something different? Routine? Ritual? Who knows.... the point is change, and being dynamic, is imperative to life and even moreso imperative to business. Its even imperative to hobby in being able to capitalize on new practices and innovation. The people who just do things as they always have can be happy. But they usually have to be happy in the dust. (they actually never are because they always weave convenient advances into their routine/ritual where it works)

My point was building something that fails repeatedly (workmanship, cost, production timeline) due to ritualistic neurocise is fine if your world can tolerate it. Most, in some capacity, cant... hence the show "hoarders".

[Doug Dawson]

I think you've pretty much summed up the ultimate joys, and frustrations, of life. Yet perhaps intermingled routine, and ritual. Routines are things like we all put our underwear on before our pants (our outerwear).

Not everybody does that. I like to change it up sometimes.

[Bruce King]

Not for everyone and certainly not for all woodworking projects.
I have a patent too :)

The post is about using other plans, not your own.

[Doug Dawson]

Making something without a plan is a very typical skill.

That is also known as ‘agile development’, and many people consider it to be highly desirable. Don’t put it down!

[Doug Dawson]

I agree! You’re better than everyone else because you built something with no plan!

I use sticks (a.k.a. objects.) Yes, that makes me better. :^)

[Mike Kees]

It is just there in my head...Sometimes if one of my employees starts asking to many questions about what we are doing I do a quick and dirty sketch. Usually front,top and right side views. Only show overall dimensions. This goes back to my framing days and habits where a plan just shows where the doors are and you figure out everything else. I just need the bare outline, the details of how to get there are the fun part.

[Travis Conner]

Nothing wrong with building as you go, but do keep in mind it may need to be disassembled one day. I let a buddy work in my shop one day and build a shelf. Then one day I decided to remove it from the wall and the only way to do that was to disassemble the entire shelf to access the screws holding it to the wall which were screwed at a 45 degree angle. Smh.

[Doug Dawson]

Nothing wrong with building as you go, but do keep in mind it may need to be disassembled one day. I let a buddy work in my shop one day and build a shelf. Then one day I decided to remove it from the wall and the only way to do that was to disassemble the entire shelf to access the screws holding it to the wall which were screwed at a 45 degree angle. Smh.

Sounds like your buddy used to work for GM. ;^)

[Charles P. Wright]

I've only built two things with plans from others; both happened to be chairs. Norm's Adirondack chair and Jory Brigham's Hank Chair. For my own furniture, I tend to just wing it after making a few sketches with rough dimensions or looking at pictures with my wife (or whoever the end "customer is"). Without agreeing on the measurements beforehand, then things are going to go badly when your vision doesn't match someone else's.

For large projects like a kitchen or built-ins, I always have a plan. Special ordering the plywood, and having a clear step-by-step cutlist help ensure that minimal material is wasted due to calculation mistakes on the fly.

[Bruce King]

Do you like Norm’s time estimates?
I built a trestle table similar to the one he said 3 days project time.
I can’t even build it in 6 days now. Full timers can build faster and younger ones can work hard a solid 8 to 12 hours a day. I take a 15 minute break every hour :)

[Prashun Patel]

I don’t have the discipline to make my own plans. I have bought detailed plans for complicated builds like a rocking chair or guitar. These things have non intuitive measurements or steps.

If I build the second time, I rarely use a plan, preferring instead to confidently customize.