12" Bow Saw

[ken hatch]

I've many posts praising the TFWW bow saw. Of all the turning saws on the market and that includes the Knew Concepts saws the !2" bow saw is the best of the lot. Full disclosure: While I do not have nor have tried all the Knew Concepts saws I have a couple and while nice they do not hold a candle to the TFWW 12" bow saw. For a couple of reasons, the first is simply a 12" saw will cut faster than a 6" or even a 8" saw. The second is the TFWW saw blades. They are thinner than a coping saw blade and will fit the kerf of a Japanese pull saw as will a fret saw blade. The differences between the TFWW blade and the fret saw blade are two things, first fret saws are slower than xmas and fret saw blades break. In the years I've used the 12" bow saw I've never broken a blade. Faster than either a coping saw or fret saw, turns as easily as either, the saw blades do not break, and cheaper than many of the Knew Concepts saws. What's not to like.


TFWW 12" bow saw with saw kit:

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I was looking around for a small project to piddle with when Mike S. posted his bow saw build and thought "self you could use a second bow saw so one could have a fine tooth blade and the other course tooth just like Mike". While not a done deal, I should have a second bow saw soon. Photos of the build to follow.

ken

[steven c newman]

Amazing what one can cobble together...right?
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3 bits of Maple, 5/16" All thread, a couple wing nuts...and the blade and hardware from an old Butcher's Meat saw..
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Blade length is 18", 9ppi...
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[Howard Pollack]

Ken, I've always wondered about those saws and specifically how you hold it in a way that keeps running straight. Does the side away from the blade (the side with the tension device) tend to fall to one side. A fret or coping saw seems like it would have much less weight and leverage pulling the saw to one side or the other.- Perhaps another way to ask this question is: how do you keep it stable? Thanks. -Howard

[ken hatch]

Ken, I've always wondered about those saws and specifically how you hold it in a way that keeps running straight. Does the side away from the blade (the side with the tension device) tend to fall to one side. A fret or coping saw seems like it would have much less weight and leverage pulling the saw to one side or the other.- Perhaps another way to ask this question is: how do you keep it stable? Thanks. -Howard

Howard,

My best answer is there has never been a problem with keeping it running straight or stable and I never think about it. sorry to not be more specific but it is a non issue. About the most you need to do is set the blade so the work and frame do not interfere with each other.

ken

[ken hatch]

Amazing what one can cobble together...right?
442877
3 bits of Maple, 5/16" All thread, a couple wing nuts...and the blade and hardware from an old Butcher's Meat saw..
442878
442879
Blade length is 18", 9ppi...
442880

Steve,

You are always thinking,

ken

[mike stenson]

Ken, awesome, I'm glad to see you got the kit and are ready to go! They're so much fun to build! Looking forward to seeing the the build in progress.

Steve, very nice saw.

And Howard, they're pretty well balanced and ultimately pretty light. If you hold it with a pistol grip (with your index finger on the frame), it tracks very intuitively. Ultimately, I agree with Ken. It's much nicer to use than a fret or coping saw for most uses (I haven't coped trim with it yet ;) ) But for things like wasting dovetails, or cutting sharp curves in thicker stock (I cut the corner round on one side of the moxon replacement I built last weekend with it.. it was slow in 8/4 maple, and ultimately I did the other wide with a chisel and a spokeshave) it's really much faster, and so a whole lot easier. I'm sold.

[Howard Pollack]

Thanks to Ken and Mike for the information. -Howard

[Erich Weidner]

I have this one:
442935

I tied using it on dovetail waste, but I couldn't get it to actually make the turn out of the dovetail saw kerf. Wonder what is different between this one and the TWFF you guys are talking about.
I want to like this tool... I just haven't had much luck with it yet.

[ken hatch]

I have this one:


I tied using it on dovetail waste, but I couldn't get it to actually make the turn out of the dovetail saw kerf. Wonder what is different between this one and the TWFF you guys are talking about.
I want to like this tool... I just haven't had much luck with it yet.

Erich,

I'm not sure but your blade looks too wide for a turning saw. Order some 12" blades from TFWW, they come in IIRC three tooth counts, basically fine, med, and course. Once you have a thin blade it will turn much like a coping or fret saw. while making a sawing motion apply pressure in the direction you want the kirf to go. Piece of cake or as my English not a first language clients would say it's a sheet of cake.

ken

P.S. Go look at the image I posted with this thread of the TFWW saw and click it to make it big and look at the difference in width of the blade vs. your blade.

[ken hatch]

I've both Beech and Hickory in the shop and have gone back and forth on which to use. I may end up making one from each wood, today I'm working with a Hickory blank. I'm sure there are a dozen ways to start but my first step is to drill the pin holes while things are still square.

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The next step will be roughing out the shape with the band saw then refining it with a draw knife, spoke shaves, and rasps. While not necessary a shave horse is handy.

ken

[Nathan Johnson]

Ken, I have the Olson fret saw with 5 tpi skip tooth blades from lee valley. It is a bit slow.
When you build and send me a bow saw I will compare and share my thoughts. Much thanks.





:)

[steven c newman]

For those that would prefer a video...years ago ( David Weaver Era) there was a series of videos from China....."Traditional Chinese Woodworking" I think was the site....In it, a fellow would show how he made various tools and joints. A few handplanes....but, IF you look around in his shop...you would see racks of Frame saws...I think the count was around...50? In a 3 part video, he shows HOW he makes those saws.

Start to finish, joints, wood, hardware...and something he called a Watch Spring Blade.....He also showed how to sharpen and set the teeth....and even a test drive....might be worth the Google?

The saw I made is patterned from that video......bad part? It is in Mandarin....I think they may have added cc to them, by now....

[ken hatch]

Ken, I have the Olson fret saw with 5 tpi skip tooth blades from lee valley. It is a bit slow.
When you build and send me a bow saw I will compare and share my thoughts. Much thanks.





:)

Nathan,

I'll get right on it :).

I have a Olson as well, a good coping saw and faster than a fret saw but still slow.

ken

[ken hatch]

For those that would prefer a video...years ago ( David Weaver Era) there was a series of videos from China....."Traditional Chinese Woodworking" I think was the site....In it, a fellow would show how he made various tools and joints. A few handplanes....but, IF you look around in his shop...you would see racks of Frame saws...I think the count was around...50? In a 3 part video, he shows HOW he makes those saws.

Start to finish, joints, wood, hardware...and something he called a Watch Spring Blade.....He also showed how to sharpen and set the teeth....and even a test drive....might be worth the Google?

The saw I made is patterned from that video......bad part? It is in Mandarin....I think they may have added cc to them, by now....

Steve,

I'll look for the video,

ken

[ken hatch]

Shaping the arms, first rough cut with the band saw, the draw knife followed by spoke shave, and now rasps. They are starting to look like bow saw arms.

443067

ken

[chris carter]

I built a turning saw and I have used it for large dovetail waste (like the ones for the end-vise on my bench). It has a 1/4" blade in it. I briefly thought about putting a thinner blade in it cut waste from smaller dovetails, but dismissed it because although it can cut fast, it's much more cumbersome for precision work vs. a coping saw.

[ken hatch]

I built a turning saw and I have used it for large dovetail waste (like the ones for the end-vise on my bench). It has a 1/4" blade in it. I briefly thought about putting a thinner blade in it cut waste from smaller dovetails, but dismissed it because although it can cut fast, it's much more cumbersome for precision work vs. a coping saw.


Chris,

If your saw is small and light weight, ~12" or so, you might want to give the smaller blade a go. My experience is my 12" turning saw is more precise than a coping saw. Of course that could be because I almost never use a coping saw and use the bow saw almost always.

ken

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have considered make a Paul Sellers style frame saw just to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4LohjmskEk

https://paulsellers.com/knowledge-base/framebow-saw/


Note that these are using a pretty wide blade. I wanted to make one just to make one...

[Mike Brady]

I have read through the preceding posts regarding bow saws and perhaps a comparison of them to coping or fret saws. My use for these "turning saws" is almost exclusively in removing dovetail waste. I have a Knew Concepts fret saw and the TFWW bow saw built from their kit. For the purpose, I find that the well-tensioned fret saw blade in a class by itself. For me, the frame saw does not afford the tension, turning ability, or smooth cut of the fret saw. Also the frame saw blade is thicker than my dovetail saw plate, so the frame saw can't make the 90+ degree turn required to remove the waste between tails. In my mind the frame saw is more of a manual band saw.

[mike stenson]

Part of it may be that in that use-case I'm looking to just waste the majority. I'm still chopping the baseline, so for me it just saves a bunch of chopping. So I also don't really care about smoothness of cut for that, just being quick. I've been playing around with turning the back handle to force a small curve in the blade. That makes for a really nicely controllable and rather immediate turn (then I just turn the front to match).

[Eric Rathhaus]

Or you could buy this and still be manually powered. 443104

[mike stenson]

Or you could buy this and still be manually powered. 443104


How do I waste dovetails, or half laps with that? ;)

[Phil Mueller]

Sometimes the most obvious solution escapes me. Just an observation, Ken, that you ganged the two pieces to get them the same. Something tells me I would have attempted to do it one at a time. :rolleyes:

That sort of work I enjoy a lot. Nice job on the arms!

[steven c newman]

You could come up here, and try mine out.....
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Handle..
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Second handle..
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Mortise for the bent over all-thread..
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Other end of the all-thread.
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Blade holder..
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handle details
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Mortise for the Maple stretcher
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Loose stretcher ( no glue needed) being fitted...

[ken hatch]

I have considered make a Paul Sellers style frame saw just to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4LohjmskEk

https://paulsellers.com/knowledge-base/framebow-saw/


Note that these are using a pretty wide blade. I wanted to make one just to make one...

Andrew,

Large frame saws work very well, I've had one in my shop for years but once I got a band saw it was put on the shelf. Frame saws come in many sizes and blade widths to have a turning saw it is like a band saw the narrower the blade the better it turns. Which also points out that just because the saw is small does not mean it is a turning bow saw.

ken

[ken hatch]

I have read through the preceding posts regarding bow saws and perhaps a comparison of them to coping or fret saws. My use for these "turning saws" is almost exclusively in removing dovetail waste. I have a Knew Concepts fret saw and the TFWW bow saw built from their kit. For the purpose, I find that the well-tensioned fret saw blade in a class by itself. For me, the frame saw does not afford the tension, turning ability, or smooth cut of the fret saw. Also the frame saw blade is thicker than my dovetail saw plate, so the frame saw can't make the 90+ degree turn required to remove the waste between tails. In my mind the frame saw is more of a manual band saw.


Part of it may be that in that use-case I'm looking to just waste the majority. I'm still chopping the baseline, so for me it just saves a bunch of chopping. So I also don't really care about smoothness of cut for that, just being quick. I've been playing around with turning the back handle to force a small curve in the blade. That makes for a really nicely controllable and rather immediate turn (then I just turn the front to match).

Mike,

What Mike said. But I would like to know what saw you use to cut dovetails, I do not often use Japanese pull saws but when I do the blades of my 12" bow saw fit the kerf well and is easy to use. Of course this just shows, as always one size does not fit all.

ken

[ken hatch]

Sometimes the most obvious solution escapes me. Just an observation, Ken, that you ganged the two pieces to get them the same. Something tells me I would have attempted to do it one at a time. :rolleyes:

That sort of work I enjoy a lot. Nice job on the arms!

Phil,

Thanks.

I'm not sure but your way may be better :). After that photo was made I screwed up cutting the curve in the top of the mortise for the stretcher. My fault, my gouge wasn't as sharp as it should have been, shame on me but bottom line after a bit of butt scratching those blanks are now fire starters and I prepped a couple of new blanks last night.

Its not a big loss and gives me a chance to do a couple of things differently.

ken

[mike stenson]

Ken,

FWIW, I'm not sure that the curve is necessary. I had a whole bunch of issues getting a tight fitting tenon with it.. so eventually I just made it flat.

Of course, I actually possess no gouges.. That's something that'll need to get sorted eventually.

[ken hatch]

Ken,

FWIW, I'm not sure that the curve is necessary. I had a whole bunch of issues getting a tight fitting tenon with it.. so eventually I just made it flat.

Of course, I actually possess no gouges.. That's something that'll need to get sorted eventually.

Mike,

I suspect you are correct. I can see a reason for the curve, to allow the arms and stretcher to self-correct but I doubt it makes any difference.

I don't use gouges often, hence it being a little dull, but they can be handy. BTW, I sharpened it this morning and did a test cut on one of the fire starters and it did a great job. Goes to show you should never put a dull tool away. I try to follow that rule but sometimes I goof up.

ken