Shaper Template Bearing is too tight

[Patrick Kane]

I recently picked up a new old stock helical template cutterhead. It is a grizzly 4" diameter and 3" tall helical head. It didnt have a rub bearing, so i ordered one from Grizzly last week. Now that i have both in hand, the rub bearing is incredibly tight on the 1.25" spindle. To the point where i would almost need to hammer the bearing onto the spindle with conduit/pipe. Is this a QC problem, or am i doing something wrong? The steel cutterhead bore is fine, slides onto the spindle no problem.

[Steve Jenkins]

Make sure it’s not a 30mm bearing

[Patrick Kane]

Crap, that is a fantastic thought. Would make a lot of sense. I just checked my
Order and it is 1-1/4”, but they could have shipped me the incorrect part. My
Calipers have a dead battery, or else I’d measure the inside diameter.

[Richard Coers]

If it was a 30mm bore, it would be over 1/16" undersized. It wouldn't begin to even start on the arbor.

[Bill Dufour]

I had a few cutters that were too tight to drop down onto the spindle. I took a 3/4" twist drill and forced them onto that and spun them onto it. I saw no evidence of any metal removal but it cleaned the bores and opened them up just enough that they now drop on a pull off very easy. I do not know if your inner race will be soft enough to do anything or not.
Bil lD

[Richard Coers]

I had a few cutters that were too tight to drop down onto the spindle. I took a 3/4" twist drill and forced them onto that and spun them onto it. I saw no evidence of any metal removal but it cleaned the bores and opened them up just enough that they now drop on a pull off very easy. I do not know if your inner race will be soft enough to do anything or not.
Bil lD
1 1/4" twist drills are kinda hard and expensive to come by. Maybe he'd get lucky with a surplus wholesaler. A brake cylinder hone would be a lot cheaper.

[Bill Dufour]

I tried a brake hone and a few minutes did nothing for me.
Bil lD

[brent stanley]

If it's the correct nominal size and there's nothing wrong with your spindle then it's a factory dud and it's reasonable for you to expect better. Send it back. Most home grown solutions will result in an inferior end product IMO.

B

[Lewis Justis]

I had a new one like that, really tight to slide on a 1-1/4 spindle. A little white lithium grease, and it went on with no problem.

[Patrick Kane]

Hi, its me again. Returned the original and received the replacement last night. You guessed it, the same exact result. This time i broke out the starrett and measured things. My Felder spindle is 1.249". This makes sense, make it a thou undersized so cutterheads go on and come off. Measured the ID of the grizzly rub bearing and its 1.242". This part doesnt make sense to me. I feel like this one should be 1.251" to allow it to slide onto spindles easily. I didnt measure the first one i had, but i assume this will be the case with everyone they send me. Seven thousandths seems like a lot of metal to remove by hand with sandpaper. Should i modify this or return it for good and try to find a rub bearing to match the outside diameter of the grizzly cutterhead? This is a spiral head for template shaping.
446218446219

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, its me again. Returned the original and received the replacement last night. You guessed it, the same exact result. This time i broke out the starrett and measured things. My Felder spindle is 1.249". This makes sense, make it a thou undersized so cutterheads go on and come off. Measured the ID of the grizzly rub bearing and its 1.242". This part doesnt make sense to me. I feel like this one should be 1.251" to allow it to slide onto spindles easily. I didnt measure the first one i had, but i assume this will be the case with everyone they send me. Seven thousandths seems like a lot of metal to remove by hand with sandpaper. Should i modify this or return it for good and try to find a rub bearing to match the outside diameter of the grizzly cutterhead? This is a spiral head for template shaping.
446218446219

Is your cutter a metric diameter ( measure it please). I presume the guide is exactly the size of your cutter at present.

If the rub collar you have is exactly the diameter you want, have a shop press out the sleeve inside the bearing and bore it to the correct size......Rod.

I live near FS Tools so I use them for this, any cutter manufacturer will be able to do that for you......Rod.

[Jerry Bruette]

Hi, its me again. Returned the original and received the replacement last night. You guessed it, the same exact result. This time i broke out the starrett and measured things. My Felder spindle is 1.249". This makes sense, make it a thou undersized so cutterheads go on and come off. Measured the ID of the grizzly rub bearing and its 1.242". This part doesnt make sense to me. I feel like this one should be 1.251" to allow it to slide onto spindles easily. I didnt measure the first one i had, but i assume this will be the case with everyone they send me. Seven thousandths seems like a lot of metal to remove by hand with sandpaper. Should i modify this or return it for good and try to find a rub bearing to match the outside diameter of the grizzly cutterhead? This is a spiral head for template shaping.
446218446219

Can you see any numbers on the bearing? 60xx or similar, that will tell you the bearing size and can be looked up the give you the inside bore of the bearing, probably in mm's

I like Rod's idea but I don't see a ring inside of the bearing.

Don't try to modify the inside bore of the bearing, won't work.

[Patrick Kane]

It is an R20z bearing, which according to the web, should have an inside diameter of 1-1/4". Outside diameter of 2-1/4".

The outside diameter of the rub bearing is 3.999". Its supposed to be 4", so that works out there. The grizzly cutterhead is difficult for me to measure a diameter. I need to catch the far edge of two opposite cutters, but those cutters arent in the same plane, which means my calipers are skewed to register each edge. The cutterhead is supposed to be 4" OD as well.
3-1/8" Spiral Cutterhead at Grizzly.com (https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-3-1-8-spiral-cutterhead/h2876z)

[Jerry Bruette]

Don't know why the I.D. of the bearing would be undersized.

You could go to a local industrial supplier, Motion Ind. etc., and get a R20 bearing, measure it, and put it in the collar yourself. Defeats the idea of ordering one though.

[Mark Bolton]

My guess is your stuck in the Grizzly standard operating procedure. Enjoy your misery.

[Patrick Kane]

My guess is your stuck in the Grizzly standard operating procedure. Enjoy your misery.

haha, this made me laugh. My issue is my craigslist addiction. I got an excellent deal on the cutterhead off Clist, but then i needed a matching bearing. That is how the bear got me....

[Alex Zeller]

Sounds like you got the Chinese version of 1 1/4". Maybe the Grizzly shapers have shafts that are slightly under 1 1/4"? You could look around at what it would cost to replace that bearing vs buy the collar from a different company. If you did replace the bearing at least you would know who makes it and most likely end up with a name brand. I just don't know if it makes sense. I'm guessing the bearing is pressed onto the collar so if you can remove it and install the new one you'll have the expense of paying someone to do it on top of the price of a new bearing.

[Rod Sheridan]

Looked to me that a sleeve was inside the bearing?

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah, the spindle probably is wavy .....seen a few of them! But unless you have had problems before blame the tooling ,
and send it back. Probably got new old stock status by being too tight to work, like some employees get get too "tight "
to work and are sent back home.

[Mel Fulks]

Oops, I should have read all ,but did not. Being the spindle I would not hesitate to mark the tight spots and scrub them
down with file or hone. I include file because some ,at least ,of the spindles are file-able. Spindle running ,it's the one
that needs to lose weight ! File next to spare tire

[Wes Grass]

Did you check the inside jaws of your calipers in the cutterhead for reference? The ends can get dinged up from dropping them and make them read undersize. Hard to believe a ball bearing would be 8 thou off.

If that checks out, check for burrs on the end of the spindle, or a ding that raised up a bump.

[Ed Aumiller]

Looking at the original post quote:
"The steel cutterhead bore is fine, slides onto the spindle no problem."
Then quote:
"My Felder spindle is 1.249". This makes sense, make it a thou undersized so cutterheads go on and come off. Measured the ID of the grizzly rub bearing and its 1.242"

Do you have other cutters that go on the spindle ok ?? If so, that says to me the spindle, etc is ok....

To have a bearing .008" too small is a problem with the bearing.

Tolerances NEED to be close on anything that spins as fast as a shaper....

[Patrick Kane]

Looking at the original post quote:
"The steel cutterhead bore is fine, slides onto the spindle no problem."
Then quote:
"My Felder spindle is 1.249". This makes sense, make it a thou undersized so cutterheads go on and come off. Measured the ID of the grizzly rub bearing and its 1.242"

Do you have other cutters that go on the spindle ok ?? If so, that says to me the spindle, etc is ok....

To have a bearing .008" too small is a problem with the bearing.

Tolerances NEED to be close on anything that spins as fast as a shaper....

Yeah, i have about 10-12 other steel cutterheads from reputable makers that go on the spindle easily--NAP/Gladu, Stark, Felder and the like. Honestly, the grizzly spiral head is just fine too. Its this dumb bearing. It seemed odd to me as well that it would be off this much, but it makes sense. I cant get it started onto the spindle. Whelp, i contacted them to send this one back. third time's the charm, allegedly.

[Warren Lake]

Patrick dont feel bad. have a German tool and die maker friend properly trained in Europe. I had stuff done over the years, simple easy fast simple machines accurate to .0005. I ask for a sleeve for a bearing to increase it .020, he says slip fit? interferance fit? or press fit? Makes the sleeve and fits perfect.

Years later he doesnt have his shop, I go to a very busy CNC machine shop. give them a drawing to make a spacer. come back wont fit my spindle off 1/8", get them to make a new one, come back still doenst fit. There are 30 CNC machines there yet they still cant make a friggin spacer. Pathetic. You are all likely sick of me harping about old european guys. I know how advanced things are now they can print Titantium now. Sounds like the bearing was made by the CNC shop I went to :)

Have you ever noticed bearings, I take my front end apart 92 roadmaster and if I replace the bearings with new ones say SKF, how can they be lighter than the bearings in the car from 1992?

[Bruce King]

Some bicycle bearings got lighter, the balls inside the bearings are made of Silicon Nitride, which is about 30% lighter than steel.
Order a larger ID and have a bushing made to fit your spindle.

[Joe Calhoon]

European machinery and tooling mfgs work to ISO specs for size of shafts and bore of cutters. H7 for bore and G6 for shaft. From what I have seen I believe US standards are a little tighter (no idea if ISO standards are used here of something else) all my domestic made 1.25 tooling Fit the shafts slightly tighter than Euro made tooling. I have some domestic made bearings from way back and they are also a slightly tighter fit than the euro ones. They all work and never noticed any cutter performance difference with the looser fit. I have had problems with too tight a fit on reduction bushings made by US mfgs. These get tricky because the part that fits into the cutter has to be slightly smaller yet than the bore of the cutter.

[Paul Haus]

Happens I have the Grizzly 2" high spiral cutter and a 4" bearing rub collar. I think I got my rub collar from Magnate vs. Grizzly who I have bought rub collars from before. No particular reason I went with one or the other, I've bought from both.
OP might want to check into other brands to see what they have. Some are Magnate, Freud, Amana but I don't know which sell 4" OD 1 1/2" id bearing shaper collars other than Magnate.

[Mike Kees]

I have an Amana rub collar that uses a bearing that presses into different diameter aluminum outside rings to match up with different cutter diameters. It is the collar that I use with my spiral cutter that is 100mm diameter.

[J.R. Rutter]

The joke in the shop here is that the Chinese strategy for the US market is to make products that are essentially full scale models of a thing, rather than design and engineer things that will function well. This gets you pot metal parts that break, low grade screws that strip and break, tolerances that are "sorta close", etc. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions, and this is a joke, but every time something like this happens, we shake our heads.

I've gotten shaper rub bearings at Grizzly that fit fine. But it absolutely doesn't surprise me to read about your situation, OP. I've had multiple Chinese router bit bearings that did not match the minor diameter of the grind on the bit's carbide, making them useless...