picture frames

[jeff oldham]

I know this has been asked a thousand times,,,but its hit and miss when I make a picture frame getting all the corners square on the miter joint,,,i use the incra 1000se,set it to 45 degrees use a stop block,,,a new 60 tooth blade,,check the blade to the table using digal angle guage,,,and I still cant get a square cut going thru the miter joint,,and i use the 4 corner band clamp for gluing it up,,,,any info would be a big help

[Grant Wilkinson]

When you do a test cut on scrap and measure the angle, is it exactly 45°? Incra has docs on how to set it if it is not.

Be sure to eliminate any movement between the slider and the table saw slot. This was a biggie for me as my table saw slot was not consistent in its width.

You've said that you use a stop block, but if the piece can move at all when you are cutting it, clamp it down. It's had to hold a piece by hand and move it through the blade at the same time.

[Stan Calow]

Having the same difficulties. I think big power tools are easily thrown off when making the relatively small angle cuts for frames. I settled on using a miter trimmer to touch up all picture frame miters. If you're not familiar here's a link to FWW article on them (not sure if its beyond the paywall): https://www.finewoodworking.com/2020/09/25/why-i-love-the-miter-trimmer For very small frames I use a Nobex manual saw with miter box.

But a lot of the problem for me is getting the lengths of parallel sides exactly even, and sometimes you're chasing your tail when trimming them.

PS I also realized that my Kreg miter gauge had a little bit of wiggle in the stop block mechanism.

[mike stenson]

I use a shooting board for this, it makes a square 45 pretty trivial. Costs some scrap and a hand plane (which is useful to have around anyway)

[glenn bradley]

Obviously the tablesaw has to be well aligned so we'll assume that. I use an Incra V-27. I have an Incra extrusion I added to it back before the more fancy Incra gauges were offered. Two things that made my miters air-tight:

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I faced the extrusion with 220 grit sandpaper and was surprised by how much more control I had over the stock. I thought I was holding it tight enough but, the addition of the sandpaper proved me wrong.

The other thing I did was to add a 45 degree stop block. This went a long ways to assuring identical length parts once one end was cut at a 45. I set the gauge to 45 degrees using the laser-cut teeth, set the stop block for the length of one pair of parts, cut them, then adjust it for the second set and cut them. The wooden stop block is just clamped to the extrusion. The blue metal stop is used to cut parts to length prior to mitering.

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Once you develop a method that works for you, you can really crank them out.

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[Jim Dwight]

I have a friend with the first machine (green) in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQicYxl5Igk. It cuts great picture frames but is a bit much for my shop and infrequent making of picture frames. I have tried a table saw sled but get better (although not great) results with my CMS. Getting both parallel sides exactly the same length seems to be my issue. It only takes a tiny difference to open up a joint.

[John Gornall]

The cutting tools must be precise - and so must the wood pieces - width, thickness, length, straight no twist - wood isn't always cooperative

[Thomas L Carpenter]

Although pretty simple, I have found that feeding the stock through the blade very slowly helps. Maybe the blade flexes or the stock moves maybe somebody smarter than i am can comment.

[Steve Demuth]

I know this has been asked a thousand times,,,but its hit and miss when I make a picture frame getting all the corners square on the miter joint,,,i use the incra 1000se,set it to 45 degrees use a stop block,,,a new 60 tooth blade,,check the blade to the table using digal angle guage,,,and I still cant get a square cut going thru the miter joint,,and i use the 4 corner band clamp for gluing it up,,,,any info would be a big help

If you're going to cut them off a miter gage, then everything - the miter-slot to blade alignment, the tracking of the gage in the slot, and the 45 setting on the gage have to be spot on. Lot's of tutorials on each of these to get you there.

But, while I appreciate having my saw that well dialed in, and do, I don't use it for doing frames. A much better bet is to build a miter sled, and make sure you cut the miters using opposite slides of the sled block for each corner, with a consistent face-up or face-down orientation of the sticks. That way, as long as you nail the 90 degree square on the sled block, you're going to get a great fit, as errors in the miter cuts cancel.

However, if you're cutting out of solid wood, note also that you need to make sure your wood moisture is normalized. Any significant movement of the wood after cutting will cause you trouble in your miter joints. I've seen people cut some miters, leave them set overnight, and find they don't fit 24 hours later, due to drying in the shop environment.

[Jerry Thompson]

Shooting board. The best thing I ever built. That and a low angel jack plane have saved me a lot of frustration.

[Matt Day]

5 cut method,,,, align miter gauge,,,
Lion miter trimmer is a joy to use here too,,,

[Tom Henderson2]

Obviously the tablesaw has to be well aligned so we'll assume that. I use an Incra V-27. I have an Incra extrusion I added to it back before the more fancy Incra gauges were offered. Two things that made my miters air-tight:



I

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Those frames are absolutely stunning Glenn -- nice work! Not just the construction... but the design and finish are also very nicely done.

[Jim Tobias]

I agree with Steve....just make a miter sled for frames and be forever done with it. As he said, any error will be cancelled out. I still use one I made 12-15 years ago.....still accurate.

Jim

[glenn bradley]

Those frames are absolutely stunning Glenn -- nice work! Not just the construction... but the design and finish are also very nicely done.


Thanks Tom.

To everybody: Like most of us I have had an array of tools to do the things I want to do. Along the journey some have been good, others not so good, some should have never gotten to the house :D. When I had a contractor saw I aligned it the best I could for 90 degrees. For frames I still had better results with a miter sled and a shooting board than I ever got off the miter gauge :). My hybrid did much better with the same miter gauge. Depending on scale, many things still got tuned or 'fit' via hand tools . . . and still do. My cab saw is near 100% on accuracy if my clumsiness doesn't get in the way. Any mishaps can again be touched up on a shooting board.

The point being that there is no one answer for a lot of the things we discuss on here and that's the best part of a forum. The OP gets answers from a variety of folks finding success or failure with a variety of methods. Try many things and you will find a successful method that works for you. Kudos to all the great folks on here who share so openly. I guess that's my 'happy thought' for the day. Either that or there's more caffeine in this coffee than I thought.

[Brian Holcombe]

Glenn, very nice work!

[lowell holmes]

I usually use an aluminum tri-square and a dovetail saw.

[Joe Cowan]

I have been making alot of picture frames lately. I started with a simple mitre sled, but ponied up and got the Incra 5000 sled. Great tool.

[Phil Gaudio]

I made this crude miter sled when I first started making picture frames: it was time well spent.

https://i.postimg.cc/SKTg7KmC/IMG-2837.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Alan Lightstone]

I built a nice miter sled, but, frankly, my shooting board works better.

[Lee Schierer]

One trick I learned a number of years ago is that when you glue up a miter joint, you should apply glue to both sides of the joint. The faces being glued are essentially end grain and as such will tend to pull glue out of the joint. By coating both sides lightly you avoid the chance of glue starvation in the joint.

You can also apply blue painters tape to the curved portions of the frame profile exactly to the edge on each side of the joint and any glue squeeze out comes off easily when the tape is removed

[Alex Zeller]

I was using a drafting square to set up but have switched to a set of 30/45/60/90 machinist blocks. You can get a set for a little over $20. Even though they are made in China they are way more accurate than is needed for woodworking. They are thick enough to stand up on end but thin enough to fit between the carbide teeth of a 50 tooth 10" blade. Being steel I can easily tell if they are truly tight. They do make aluminum ones but they are too thick IMO.

Also make sure you aren't twisting your miter gauge. The plastic zero play inserts can easily be overcome without realizing it if you put too much twisting force. With the miter gauge extrusion extended it's pretty easy to (since you have lots of leverage) to twist it.

[Will Blick]

agree on the miter sled, assuming you make it from a perfect 90 square...easy to be fooled... you always need near perfect references when making jigs.
That assures a 90 between the two moldings.
but it does nothing to assure equal lengths of opposite sides...
you can set up stop system to assure equal lengths, or get close, than move to a trimming system, mating the moldings together... a few thou matters, specially when mounding width is wide, such as 3-4"+.
then for small moldings, an under pinner, as in the video, is ideal if you have one, otherwise, you often rely on glue for end grain, not great... a 23g pinner works if you can live with the tiny hole. For wider and thicker moldings, lots of options for joinery...
One issue for shooting.... if you have a flat back molding, you can use a sacrificial wood piece to prevent tear out, but some moldings are not flat on the far edge, so tear out is a risk. Here a miter trimmer is more ideal...
One size fits all rarely applies for ww, too many variables....

[Von Bickley]

I use my Incra 1000HD. I tape the two side pieces together and then I tape the top & bottom together. That way I am sure the sides are the exactly the same length, and the top & bottom will be the exact same length. Works for me.

[Rob Damon]

I made a zero clearance for the miter saw that is shimmed for near perfect cut.

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Then finished up with shooting board for picture frames.

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Miters came out clean.

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Resulting perfect corners everytime:

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[Ted Calver]

Very nice work, Rob.

[Rob Damon]

Thanks Ted.

Jigs are the key to consistent picture frames for me.

I also made one for holding the frame while cutting 4mm domino's to make the joint stronger.

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