Morris chair

[Bill Carey]

Moving along on the chairs, even tho pre-finishing has presented some unique problems. Working on the arms and sides and was wondering if anyone ever makes a physical connection between the 2 other than the thru mortises, which, as you can see, are not part of the assembly. Yet. What I was thinking of doing was to make a long 1/4" mortise in the top of the upper side rail and a corresponding mortise in the bottom of the arm and assembling them with glued loose tenons. I'm just kinda curious what others have done with this.

442292 442293

[Bill Carey]

So, anyway...........

I decided the arms did need a mechanical connection, which also serves the purpose of aligning the arm with the side assembly. Made the jig you see in the pics with some plexi and jointed poplar blocks and it'll come in handy on many more projects I think. After routing the side rails, and gluing in some loose tenons, I routed the underside of the arms to give me an 1/8" overhang on the legs. Once the arm and side were assembled, I could drill and mortise for the loose tenons thru the arms and into the legs. I couldn't do thru tenons because the legs were laid up around a core or poplar. I'll put a kerf in these tenons before I glue and drive them home so I can wedge them tight to the arms. All this so I can avoid finishing an assemble piece. LOL. And I gotta say, cutting the arc on the side assemblies after they were assembled (and of course finished) was an interesting chore. But i got to use my compass plane again, so there's that.

442539 442540 442541 442542 442543 442544

[Phil Mueller]

Looking great, Bill. I too go through a few hurdles to pre-finish when I can...I still think it’s worth it, but can add a challenge here and there. Look forward to seeing the rest of the build.

[Bill Carey]

Got a chance with the backs of these chairs to use my new Ron Bontz tenon saw. What a nice tool. Cuts easily, straight and well. A real pleasure to use. I cut the shoulders on the table saw first, then cut the cheeks with the Bontz saw. Doing this was way more fun than using the tenon jig on the table saw, and better exercise as well.

442953 442954 442955 442956

They are coming together well. I dry fit them together to get the numbers for the back rest width, and I was more than a little surprised that the distance between the arms at the back rest were identical to a 32nd. So surprised that I did the dry fit twice. Another serendipitous moment was when I was complaining about having to work on a moving blanket because the pieces were all pre-finished and I didn't want to scratch anything, and SWMBO suggested I cut up some of the old bathroom mats. These are great: they are soft on one side and have a rubber non slip surface on the other. A vast improvement when working with pre-finished parts.

442958

Since I don't have a working lathe, I figured on using 5/8" oak dowel rods as pins, but they'll look kinda plain. Was thinking of getting some 1" or 1 1/4" dowel in contrasting wood to make caps for the pins. Dunno yet.

[Frederick Skelly]

Coming along nicely Bill!
One of these days, I'll spring for a Bontz saw. But first, I've got a jones to buy an original Independence Tool backsaw - again, someday!

[Jim Matthews]

Got a chance with the backs of these chairs to use my new Ron Bontz tenon saw. What a nice tool.

442954 442955




You suck.

Nice chair, impeccable work - but still.

[Bill Carey]

You suck.

Nice chair, impeccable work - but still.

at least I didn't include a pic of my Bad Axe dovetail saw. :D

The day the Bontz arrived I lost my job and was going to send it back, but the LOML said it was too pretty to send back and she insisted I keep it.

[William Chain]

Moving right along! Very nice. I’ve done three Morris chairs, I loved working on them. Nice material you have too. What is your finish regimen?

[Bill Carey]

Moving right along! Very nice. I’ve done three Morris chairs, I loved working on them. Nice material you have too. What is your finish regimen?

Thanks gents.

William:
I'm not a big fan of the typical dark Mission finish, so I generally do the following on all my QSWO pieces:
Varathane Dark Walnut gel stain, sanded to 320;
2 coats of Amber Zinnser Shellac,
scuffed between coast with purple 3M pad,
1 coat of 1lb dewaxed blonde shellac (Wellermart), scuffed,
then about 6 to 10 coats of wipe on poly scuffed with purple pads between coats. Everything is put on with pads - no brushes.

I aim for something like this, or a tad lighter.:

443031

[Bill Carey]

Thought I deleted the dark picture. Oh well

[William Chain]

Nice. I achieved that sort of color with a fuming tent chased with amber shellac. I might go back some time and hit it with a dark paste wax but for now the “customer” is happy

[David Utterback]

Looks like you are mastering the Morris! Beautiful wood and tools and what appears to be excellent joinery. Thanks for sharing.

[Ron Bontz]

Nice work, Bill. Thanks for the compliment as well.
Where did you obtain your quarter sawn white oak and what is the average cost in your area?
Thank you.
Ron

[Bill Carey]

Nice work, Bill. Thanks for the compliment as well.
Where did you obtain your quarter sawn white oak and what is the average cost in your area?
Thank you.
Ron


Hey Ron - I get all my wood from Cassen's Lumber in (http://www.cassenslumber.com/index.html) West Lafayette, IN. I usually pay about 5 bucks a bf for some of the nicest QSWO you'll ever see. Plus Dan is a hell of a nice guy. It's about a 4 hour drive for you, so if you ever decide to make the trek, let me know and I'll meet you there. Always looking for an excuse to stock up.

[William Chain]

$5 a BF for QSWO?? Wow, I need to move. Cheapest 'round these parts is double that.



Hey Ron - I get all my wood from Cassen's Lumber in (http://www.cassenslumber.com/index.html) West Lafayette, IN. I usually pay about 5 bucks a bf for some of the nicest QSWO you'll ever see. Plus Dan is a hell of a nice guy. It's about a 4 hour drive for you, so if you ever decide to make the trek, let me know and I'll meet you there. Always looking for an excuse to stock up.

[Bill Carey]

Backrest Question


Cassen's didn't have any 8/4 stock for curved back slats, so I made them straight. I looked at some of the old Stickley chairs and some of them had straight back slats, so I figured ok, go with it. Naturally, now that they are made I'm having second thoughts. Do curved back slats make a big difference when there is a fairly thick (4") cushion on the back? I'm mostly ok with the straight ones, but there is this annoying little guy on my shoulder hollering "Make 'em curved, dumb ass!".

Any thoughts? Anyone build them this way and regret it? Does it make a difference - big or small - in comfort? Or am I just exercising my constitutional right to make a mountain out of a mole hill?

[William Chain]

The thick cushion will hide all manner of sins, but i think the bent laminated slats do add a little something. I've never made bent slats out of solid material, seems wasteful. I resawed my stock into 3-4 layers and bent the laminates over a form. I've done regular TB-III and I've done urethane glue. I think I liked the urethane more as the expanding quality hid some of the imperfections in the laminates. One item to pay attention to though is how the back fits the base. No matter how much I work that and how many chairs I've done, the pivot point always seems to make a bit of the back impinge on the bottom cushion.


Backrest Question


Cassen's didn't have any 8/4 stock for curved back slats, so I made them straight. I looked at some of the old Stickley chairs and some of them had straight back slats, so I figured ok, go with it. Naturally, now that they are made I'm having second thoughts. Do curved back slats make a big difference when there is a fairly thick (4") cushion on the back? I'm mostly ok with the straight ones, but there is this annoying little guy on my shoulder hollering "Make 'em curved, dumb ass!".

Any thoughts? Anyone build them this way and regret it? Does it make a difference - big or small - in comfort? Or am I just exercising my constitutional right to make a mountain out of a mole hill?

[Bill Carey]

Thx William - never used urethane glue - what kind / brand do you recommend? I'll try it on my next bent laminations. And ya, I was wondering about the back rails rubbing on the cushion. I'm going to round over the ends of the rails and see what my upholstery guy has to say about it. He's pretty much a magician so hopefully he has a word or 2 of wisdom. I've been thinking about the pivots since I started and I'm at the point where I have to drill some holes. When I started I got 3 sets of measurement and compared numbers all the way thru - they all say 13-ish off the floor for the center of the pivot. In my dry fit ups that seems a skosh high. Like the ends of the backrest rails will be rubbing toward the top of the bottom cushion instead of burying into the bottom part of the cushion.

I'm leaning toward going with the back slats I have and moving on. One way or the other, holes are getting drilled tomorrow. What's the worst that can happen? Pre-finished fire wood burns pretty good.

[glenn bradley]

No helpful suggestions here. I did want to compliment you on the lighter finish coloration. Very nice!

[William Chain]

I used gorilla urethane glue. Wet one side of the laminate, light coat of the glue on the other. There are urethane offerings from TB as well, haven't used that. I was happy with the gorilla stuff.

Your pivot measurement of 13-ish sounds right. Two of my Morris chairs are around that. One is higher.

Yes, my upholstery guy also gives me light hearted trouble every time I bring him one of these chairs - once the bottom cushion is fitted, getting the pegs in the pivots is harder, but once in there, it's all good.

Bottom line - make sure the bottom cushion frame is fitted to the chair such that the rear is lower than the front, that is to say the chair is raked so gravity sinks you in while seated. Don't attach the frame level to the floor. Don't ask me how I know that. I love my first chair but I wish wish wish I had changed the fitment of the bottom cushion frame.


Thx William - never used urethane glue - what kind / brand do you recommend? I'll try it on my next bent laminations. And ya, I was wondering about the back rails rubbing on the cushion. I'm going to round over the ends of the rails and see what my upholstery guy has to say about it. He's pretty much a magician so hopefully he has a word or 2 of wisdom. I've been thinking about the pivots since I started and I'm at the point where I have to drill some holes. When I started I got 3 sets of measurement and compared numbers all the way thru - they all say 13-ish off the floor for the center of the pivot. In my dry fit ups that seems a skosh high. Like the ends of the backrest rails will be rubbing toward the top of the bottom cushion instead of burying into the bottom part of the cushion.

I'm leaning toward going with the back slats I have and moving on. One way or the other, holes are getting drilled tomorrow. What's the worst that can happen? Pre-finished fire wood burns pretty good.

[Ron Bontz]

Hey Ron - I get all my wood from Cassen's Lumber in (http://www.cassenslumber.com/index.html) West Lafayette, IN. I usually pay about 5 bucks a bf for some of the nicest QSWO you'll ever see. Plus Dan is a hell of a nice guy. It's about a 4 hour drive for you, so if you ever decide to make the trek, let me know and I'll meet you there. Always looking for an excuse to stock up.


Well, I have a relative in Bloomington so maybe a road trip will be in order. :)

[Bill Carey]

The holes finally got drilled in the arms and the legs. Several observations: don't forget to drill the holes in the legs for the pivot pins BEFORE you finish and assemble the sides. DAMHIK.

443615

And try to have a better drill press than a 30 dollar garage sale find. It did the work, but was pretty unstable and finicky. And I would recommend drilling the backrest peg holes in the arms BEFORE cutting the tails off. Or you wind up with fixtures and clamps and shims - oh my.

443616

But in the end it all got done. Now I can sand and finish the arms and backrests, do some finally assembly and get these big ass chairs out of my small shop. Tom, my upholstery guy, came over and wants a plywood frame with a gap of 3/16 all around, and he wants to add a strap with a snap on the back of the back rest cushion to keep it in place. We'll see - not entirely sold on that.

[William Chain]

You got there, good work. Yes, drilling holes before assembly was clutch.

I made my frame from poplar, and those gaps sound right. I found ply and/or softwood frames let go of upholstery staples easier than hardwood. But, if your upholstery guy likes ply, go for it. Not sure on the snap idea either. My bottom cushions are fixed, no removal.


The holes finally got drilled in the arms and the legs. Several observations: don't forget to drill the holes in the legs for the pivot pins BEFORE you finish and assemble the sides. DAMHIK.

And try to have a better drill press than a 30 dollar garage sale find. It did the work, but was pretty unstable and finicky. And I would recommend drilling the backrest peg holes in the arms BEFORE cutting the tails off. Or you wind up with fixtures and clamps and shims - oh my.

But in the end it all got done. Now I can sand and finish the arms and backrests, do some finally assembly and get these big ass chairs out of my small shop. Tom, my upholstery guy, came over and wants a plywood frame with a gap of 3/16 all around, and he wants to add a strap with a snap on the back of the back rest cushion to keep it in place. We'll see - not entirely sold on that.

[Bill Carey]

Rounding the bend on these chairs. Prefinishing is almost done - 2 or 3 more coats of wipe on - then I can assemble the chair base and the backs, and off to Tom the upholstery guy.

444380

One of the mistakes I made (or was it a lapse in judgement?) was to think loose tenons thru the arms into the legs would be easier than a traditional thru tenon. But as it turns out in order to get the kind of fit and strength I want in that joint I'm going to have to fox the tenon into the leg. Always wanted to try that, but it is totally unforgiving - miss the right bell of the mortise, or use a wedge to big and it's stuck forever in the wrong place. I really don't want to do it but see no way around it. I suppose I could use screws (blasphemy!!!) thru the leg into the tenon and cover them with the corbels, but, I mean, they're screws fercrisake. Or maybe peg the tenons and cover with the corbels. Won't know until I get there I suppose. As Napoleon said, "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake". And these chairs have pretty much left me alone.

[Rob Luter]

Thanks gents.

William:
I'm not a big fan of the typical dark Mission finish, so I generally do the following on all my QSWO pieces:
Varathane Dark Walnut gel stain, sanded to 320;
2 coats of Amber Zinnser Shellac,
scuffed between coast with purple 3M pad,
1 coat of 1lb dewaxed blonde shellac (Wellermart), scuffed,
then about 6 to 10 coats of wipe on poly scuffed with purple pads between coats. Everything is put on with pads - no brushes.

I aim for something like this, or a tad lighter.:

443031

Looks like what Stickley calls Fayetteville. Nice finish.

[Bill Carey]

Finally got one chair done and ready for the upholstery genius in Kentland. These 2 chairs have really kicked my ass. They are very big (and clumsy and heavy) for a small crowded shop and an old fart, so after walking around the first one, I think I'll take the parts for the second one upstairs for assembly, and then call the sons in law to carry it down. Down where I'm not sure cuz the LOML says we have no room for what she calls 2 monstrously big chairs. I may wind up giving them away or selling them. Dunno yet. But it has been a lot of fun crossing it off the old bucket list.

445274

[Mark Rainey]

You did it Bill! A kingly chair...post some picks with some cushy upholstery when you can.

[William Chain]

Fabulous. How are the cushions coming? The tough parts for the son in law will be getting it though doorways (don't ask me how I know), and then walking away from it without asking for one for himself.