Cabinet construction. Dovetails strong enough?

[Jason Buresh]

I am starting construction of my plane till. I am making a 36" x 36" square cabinet with pine 1x8's. Would using dovetails to hold the outside frame together be good? Or is some other sort of joint more preferable.

2 years ago when working with power tools i would have screwed it together using butt joints. Makes me shudder just thinking about it.

[Jim Koepke]

My washroom cabinets are made with dovetails and hold together well with all kinds of laundry supplies and canned food with no sign of a problem.

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My suggestion is to have the tails on the vertical sides.

Candy, my wife, really liked my 'lovetails':

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The post is here > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?135061

jtk

[ken hatch]

I am starting construction of my plane till. I am making a 36" x 36" square cabinet with pine 1x8's. Would using dovetails to hold the outside frame together be good? Or is some other sort of joint more preferable.

2 years ago when working with power tools i would have screwed it together using butt joints. Makes me shudder just thinking about it.

Jason,
.
you can't get much stronger than dovetails. But BTW, I'm just finishing a project with butt joints and cut nails. I expect it will last as long as I do.

ken

[Jason Buresh]

I have nothing against butt joints, but i used to just ram a screw in without pre-drilling and using an impact driver. Probably not the best construction.

I would expect cut nails to do well

[Andrew Seemann]

Dovetails should be fine. About the only thing stronger would be finger joints (yes, they are stronger than dovetails because of the larger glue surface). Actually butt joints with pilot drilled gold screws from Menards would likely work as well, especially if the screws were angled so they got some side grain grab like a pocket screw.

As for butt joints, my mother's kitchen cabinet drawers are plain rabbets held with nails and white glue, and they have held up for over 50 years with no failures.

[Jason Buresh]

I had been considering using a rabbet with screws or nails and glue.

Im a little intimidated by doing so many dovetails, but i suppose its just a shop project and is good practice. I just didn't know if dovetails are good for casework too or mainly drawers.

I think i will give dovetails a shot. Good practice

[Andrew Seemann]

Dovetails were pretty common for casework back in the day for joining pieces at corners where the grain went the same way. Interestingly, they weren't considered the "hallmark of craftsmanship" that they are today; they were just a quick and easy way (for those who did them day in and day out) to join wood together. Frequently they were hidden by veneer or mouldings, as showing joinery back then was considered sloppy work. Interesting how things have reversed today:)

I did dovetails for both of my hand tool wall racks. They just sort of go with the whole hand tool storage thing. The advantage of using pine is that it is easy to cut, and if you completely mess up a piece, it isn't big deal to chuck it into the burn pile and start over.

[Bill Yacey]

Good glue and some brads in a butt joint are generally more than adequate for drawers and cabinets.

[Jim Matthews]

I had been considering using a rabbet with screws or nails and glue.


That's the way I would do this.
Dovetails were a necessity before modern glue arrived.

[Rafael Herrera]

I'd be worried about how I'd mount the till to the wall if it isn't going to be resting on a counter top. Also, as Jim suggested, and unlike I did for my saw till, tails on the vertical sides.

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[Jason Buresh]

Thanks Jim. I just want to make sure whatever i do diesnt cause hundreds of dollars worth of planes to cone crashing to the ground

[Jason Buresh]

I was planning on using a french cleat. I was going to mount a board flush with the back and then mount the mating board right into the studs

[Andrew Seemann]

I was planning on using a french cleat. I was going to mount a board flush with the back and then mount the mating board right into the studs

Be sure to screw the cabinet cleat into the sides of the cabinet. Also, even with the french cleat, it isn't a bad idea to screw/lag-bolt the back of the cabinet into the studs. That way there is no possibility that it could get knocked off the wall.

[Jim Koepke]

Be sure to screw the cabinet cleat into the sides of the cabinet. Also, even with the french cleat, it isn't a bad idea to screw/lag-bolt the back of the cabinet into the studs. That way there is no possibility that it could get knocked off the wall.

Something noticed in many articles on cabinets, none of them get to in depth discussion about mounting to a wall.

When delivering cabinets for the family furniture store we would even attach floor cabinets to the wall with an L-bracket due to being in an area subject to occasional earthquakes.

jtk

[Ben Ellenberger]

Dovetails would be the strongest joint for something like that. For my tool cabinet I screwed a ledger board into studs, then I could rest the cabinet on the board and screw through the back of the cabinet into more studs. I made the ledger board out of the same material as the cabinet and finished it to match. I think it is pretty unobtrusive. That’s an alternative to a French cleat.

i agree with Jim’s comment though, I’ve always thought it odd that people gloss over how to mount things to a wall. It’s not that complicated and there are several approaches that work, but it is important to get it right.


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[Phil Gaudio]

A cabinet I built to store chisels using DT joinery. French cleat used to attach to wall.

https://i.postimg.cc/d11J7H44/IMG-2812.jpg (https://postimg.cc/KKd6wNXM)

[Jim Matthews]

A cabinet I built to store chisels using DT joinery. French cleat used to attach to wall.

https://i.postimg.cc/d11J7H44/IMG-2812.jpg (https://postimg.cc/KKd6wNXM)

Beautiful work.

Kudos

[Phil Gaudio]

Thanks much!


Beautiful work.

Kudos

[Tom Bender]

Ledger board would be my choice. A French cleat eats an inch of space and leaves space for dust and spiders. I'd put a cleat across the inside to screw thru into the wall so the back of the cabinet does not have a structural function. Set the back 1/4" from the wall so you can accommodate any unflatness of the wall and maybe scribe the sides to fit.

That's why you have planes.

[Brian Holcombe]

That's the way I would do this.
Dovetails were a necessity before modern glue arrived.

Jim, with respect, modern glue does not make an end grain glue joint into a strong joint. I’d accept the argument instead that we build beyond the necessity minimum strength but they can be done for many reasons outside of strength such as ease of assembly, de-mount ability, Durability over time and to minimize distortion from wood movement.

[Jason Buresh]

Tom,

My plan was to mount the french cleat flush with the back, and cut the wall mounted portion to the inside width of the cabinet. I was planning on doing this so should i move or have to move the cabinet, i can easily remove the cabinet from the wall without having to take the plane bed out.

As an update for anyone interested, i decided to give dovetails a shot instead of heeding the advice of a rabbet joint. I didn't realize how long it would take to cut the dovetails. I've been at it for hours and im still not done.

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[Jim Matthews]

As an update for anyone interested, i decided to give dovetails a shot instead of heeding the advice of a rabbet joint. I didn't realize how long it would take to cut the dovetails. I've been at it for hours and im still not done.

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Your results are excellent. There's only one way to get dovetails quickly - hours of repetition.

[Jim Koepke]

I didn't realize how long it would take to cut the dovetails. I've been at it for hours and im still not done.

Some people cut five minute dovetails. For me it is an exception if a dovetailed box is done in five days.

jtk

[Jason Buresh]

Jim,

I marvel at people like Frank Klausz and Rob Cosman who can cut the joint in minutes. I find chiseling to be the longest part, and I dont have enough skill yet to be able to fit right off the saw.

[Jason Buresh]

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And the carcass is done. One corner of joints came out nice and tight. Im happy with it.

Funny how fast my last joint went. I started to get more confident with the saw and learned the less waste you leave with the saw at the shoulder, the easier and faster the waste removal is.

[Jim Koepke]

And the carcass is done. One corner of joints came out nice and tight. Im happy with it.

Funny how fast my last joint went. I started to get more confident with the saw and learned the less waste you leave with the saw at the shoulder, the easier and faster the waste removal is.

It seems when cutting dovetails the last ones always look best. When cutting dovetails for drawers my practice is to save the ones on the front of the drawers for last.

jtk

[mike stenson]

Yea, that's because you get all warmed up and ready to go! Looks really good James, great job on the dovetails.. and they do get faster too :)