Making a Kitchen Trash Can

[ken hatch]

I finally finished moving the shop around, fiddling with the Fillister planes, and every other excuse I could find to delay starting on the kitchen trash cans.

I'm sizing the panels this morning, once all four are sized they will be joined with a simple butt joint, hot hide glue and nails.

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I know broken record but every time I use Steve's Try plane I break into a huge grin when wood first meets wood.

The new shop arrangement is really nice, it is good to have both benches placed where they can be worked at the same time by just turning around.

Shop is getting hot. I'm sweating and already smell like a goat, time to take a break.

ken

[Tony Wilkins]

So what kind of Moravian bench is a “trash can”?

[ken hatch]

So what kind of Moravian bench is a “trash can”?

Tony,

Too funny, I guess that is why I found every excuse to delay the start because I couldn't find a way to use wedged mortises :).

ken

[Phil Mueller]

I tend to enjoy three squaring a panel (two edges and one face), then burn a few electrons to square up the opposite face. You’re tempting me bad on a Steve plane. I just knew when you posted you were fiddling with the fillisters, it was a bit of procrastination. And why not, it’s fun.

Go all bench on this trash can. At least add a screw feature to the top and make it into a compactor.


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[ken hatch]

I tend to enjoy three squaring a panel (two edges and one face), then burn a few electrons to square up the opposite face. You’re tempting me bad on a Steve plane. I just knew when you posted you were fiddling with the fillisters, it was a bit of procrastination. And why not, it’s fun.

Go all bench on this trash can. At least add a screw feature to the top and make it into a compactor.




Phil,

I like the way you think.:p

Go ahead and give Steve a shout, it's only money and the first use will make you forget the note. I have to admit I look for excuses to pull that sucker out and put it to work.

ken

[Bob Jones 5443]

Inside joke: Steve who?

[Frederick Skelly]

Inside joke: Steve who?

Ken, you're talking about Steve Voigt, aren't you?
Bob, assuming I'm correct, here's a LINK (https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/10/14/maker-steve-voigt-planemaker/) to a good blog post on Steve.

[ken hatch]

Inside joke: Steve who?

Bob,

Sorry, it was not meant to be an inside joke. Frederick is correct, we were posting about a Steve Voigt made wood stock plane. I felt comfortable referring to just "Steve" because I had posted several times in the last couple of weeks about my Steve Voigt Try plane and Phil had called it a "Steve plane". Again, sorry for any confusion.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken, you're talking about Steve Voigt, aren't you?
Bob, assuming I'm correct, here's a LINK (https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/10/14/maker-steve-voigt-planemaker/) to a good blog post on Steve.

Frederick,

Yes, thanks for clearing up the confusion for Bob.

ken

[Bob Jones 5443]

Thanks for keeping me current, guys. You caught me not paying attention to the posts of the day. To quote a Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks album title, I was Asleep at the Switch and Comin' Right At Ya.

Thanks for the link. I am keeping it open and I'm looking forward to poring over it later today.

[ken hatch]

In spite of the heat progress on the kitchen trash can is being made. The sides are cut to size and are ready to be glued and nailed together.

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I may take a break, I had forgotten to turn the glue pot on for a couple of days and the glue was spoiled. I have new glue working but it needs to spend a little time hydrating before heating and use. I may use some "yellow" glue if I get impatient or the other option is some liquid hide glue. I'll have to test my bottle, it has been awhile since the last use.


Once the box is made all that is left are the upper and lower trim, lid, and a internal step to hold the bottom of the trash bag. The kitchen trash can should be a two day job that I expect will end up taking close to two weeks. My excuse is it is really hot in the shop and I have a 6 day schedule for my day job next week.


MsBubba should be happy with it, she likes knots :).


ken

[Mark Rainey]

Making some progress Ken...it looks like your sides are made up of two edge jointed boards, are they rub joints? And what is that "square" clamp you are using at the bottom right of the picture.?

[ken hatch]

Making some progress Ken...it looks like your sides are made up of two edge jointed boards, are they rub joints? And what is that "square" clamp you are using at the bottom right of the picture.?

Mark,

Yes to the rub joints. I'm not sure who makes the clamp or what they are called, they have been in the shop forever and seldom used but handy for this project. They work kinda like vise grips except designed to hold corners. I don't do a lot of nailed butt joints which the clamps are great for, wish I had a couple more.

ken

[Michael J Evans]

Ken interested to see what the end result looks like. I've been thinking of making one for awhile now, but can't come up with any better design then plain sides with a lid

[ken hatch]

Ken interested to see what the end result looks like. I've been thinking of making one for awhile now, but can't come up with any better design then plain sides with a lid

Michael,

You have just described this one only it will have trim around both the top and bottom and rose head cut nails down four sides. In is almost copy of one MsBubba had before we met. The reason for the build is the old one was so grotty we tried to paint it and the paint job sucked. It is easier to build new than to try to recover from a bad painting. When finished there will be three units, the can itself, a top piece (trim) that is removable and holds the trash sack in place, and a lid. Pretty simple but also clever.

ken

[ken hatch]

Not much to see but I've started gluing and nailing the sides. The side with the nails has to be cleaned up prior to nailing. The short sides, with the glue over run will be cleaned up once the glue up is completed.

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This will go a little slowly because I want to let the glue set on each butt joint before going to the next.

ken

[Bob Jones 5443]

It's probably unwise to hijack this thread, but I've now read through the link about Steve Voigt's planes. These are new to me. How in the world does he make those mortises?

The planes look like works of art. I wonder if they perform better than laminated "Krenov" style planes. I see that Voigt moved away from those to focus on mortising out a single-block. But it's not clear what he wasn't satisfied with in the Krenov style. Maybe for him it was the challenge of executing that exquisite mortise/escapement that he knew few makers could master, whereas the Krenov plane is more of an Everyman project? Or maybe the full-depth ledges on the sides hold the wedge/iron/chipbreaker assembly more securely than Krenov's cross pin? Maybe both?

Anyway, thanks for introducing me to the "Steve plane."

[ken hatch]

It's probably unwise to hijack this thread, but I've now read through the link about Steve Voigt's planes. These are new to me. How in the world does he make those mortises?

The planes look like works of art. I wonder if they perform better than laminated "Krenov" style planes. I see that Voigt moved away from those to focus on mortising out a single-block. But it's not clear what he wasn't satisfied with in the Krenov style. Maybe for him it was the challenge of executing that exquisite mortise/escapement that he knew few makers could master, whereas the Krenov plane is more of an Everyman project? Or maybe the full-depth ledges on the sides hold the wedge/iron/chipbreaker assembly more securely than Krenov's cross pin? Maybe both?

Anyway, thanks for introducing me to the "Steve plane."

Bob,

I have both types of planes, the beauty of the Krenov style plane is it is quick and easy to make and works surprisingly well but in my experience works better as a small plane vs. a larger plane like a Jack or Try. Small or large a well made Mortise/escapement type plane works better, is easier to adjust and holds the adjustment. Are they worth the money, as with most things it depends, mostly on how much you like your money:p. But like your money or not, I would hate to go back to swinging a Stanley #8 or even worse a LN #8 around for a day.

Glad to help,

ken

[ken hatch]

At the first of the thread I posted that I would be using hot hide glue along with the nails. I was lucky in a way this morning to find my hot hide glue had spoiled. This gave me time to think about the glue and I realized that as much as I enjoy working with hot hide glue it was not the best glue to use.

Liquid hide glue has a much longer open time vs. hot hide glue plus liquid will stay slightly flexible where hot very quickly becomes almost glass like. With the crude joints, the need to adjust as the nails are installed and the expected adjustment to get every thing close to square, the longer open time becomes important. The only problem was my bottle of liquid hide glue was too old to use requiring a trip to the woodstore for a new bottle. Be careful when buying, the first bottle I picked up expires Jan 2021, always look for the date. BTW, one of the reasons my bottle was old and I needed another was most of the time I make my own liquid hide glue. the reason for the store bought was time.

ken

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks for keeping me current, guys. You caught me not paying attention to the posts of the day. To quote a Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks album title, I was Asleep at the Switch and Comin' Right At Ya.

Thanks for the link. I am keeping it open and I'm looking forward to poring over it later today.

"Barstool boogie" – Dan Hicks classic!

[Mike Allen1010]

Bob,

I have both types of planes, the beauty of the Krenov style plane is it is quick and easy to make and works surprisingly well but in my experience works better as a small plane vs. a larger plane like a Jack or Try. Small or large a well made Mortise/escapement type plane works better, is easier to adjust and holds the adjustment. Are they worth the money, as with most things it depends, mostly on how much you like your money:p. But like your money or not, I would hate to go back to swinging a Stanley #8 or even worse a LN #8 around for a day.

Glad to help,

ken

+1 Steve Voigt planes are fantastic - light, easy to use and work perfectly! I can't really understand why his planes work so well – the wedge mortise, escapement etc. are perfectly made in the shavings shoot straight out the top. For me classic example of "whole being greater than the sum of the parts/synergy" or something like that.

Cheers, Mike

[Mike Allen1010]

Ken, glad to see you are enjoying the luxury of having both bench is near at hand. Must be nice or at least room for an apprentice.

Looking forward to seeing your progress with the trash cans – sounds like great way to create a handmade, wooden version of utilitarian household item you use every day. I think there's a Japanese word for the "simple beauty of utilitarian household objects" but damn if I can remember what it is.

I'm concerned to hear about your six-day workweek:eek: – don't want to see any backsliding on that retirement glide path!:p

Cheers, Mike

[ken hatch]

+1 Steve Voigt planes are fantastic - light, easy to use and work perfectly! I can't really understand why his planes work so well – the wedge mortise, escapement etc. are perfectly made in the shavings shoot straight out the top. For me classic example of "whole being greater than the sum of the parts/synergy" or something like that.

Cheers, Mike

Mike

I get a huge grin every time I use one.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken, glad to see you are enjoying the luxury of having both bench is near at hand. Must be nice or at least room for an apprentice.

Looking forward to seeing your progress with the trash cans – sounds like great way to create a handmade, wooden version of utilitarian household item you use every day. I think there's a Japanese word for the "simple beauty of utilitarian household objects" but damn if I can remember what it is.

I'm concerned to hear about your six-day workweek:eek: – don't want to see any backsliding on that retirement glide path!:p

Cheers, Mike

Mike,

Thanks, the two benches set the way they are is very handy. No backsliding, in fact we have three months of "Camp Hosting" for the Oregon State Parks System booked starting in August. Maybe by then it will be safe to visit.

I had a long reply dealing with vernacular, folk, outsider art, or whatever you want to call it furniture. which is something I've been thinking about for some time. I deleted it because it didn't really say what I wanted to say and could have been easily misunderstood. Bottom line, I love seeing what you, Derek, and Mark make but my work tends to the vernacular. There is a place for both and frankly I love looking and studying both.

BTW, back in the day, when I was doing my post baccalaureate, black T-shirt wearing, art babel speaking, studio art studies, I was always drawn to vernacular art, it had a life that was seldom found in academic art. I'm still pretty much wearing that black T-shirt and someday I'll get that post finished.

ken

[mike stenson]

Wait, studio art studies?

[ken hatch]

Wait, studio art studies?

Mike,

Art babel with a West Texas accent :p. I know the Art Opening cheese eaters well. BTW, it was great fun.

ken

[mike stenson]

Mike,

Art babel with a West Texas accent :p. I know the Art Opening cheese eaters well. BTW, it was great fun.

ken

Ken,

While I work as an engineer, I actually have way too many years of fine arts education. Unfortunately, not much to do with it here.. other than teach (I decided I hated that in the first semester of grad school).

I'll never knock any kind of art studies :D (opening night cheese and beer mmmmm)

[ken hatch]

Ken,

While I work as an engineer, I actually have way too many years of fine arts education. Unfortunately, not much to do with it here.. other than teach (I decided I hated that in the first semester of grad school).

I'll never knock any kind of art studies :D (opening night cheese and beer mmmmm)

Mike,

Too funny, While I've spent most of my adult life instructing, even when I was flying the line I was teaching my first officers how to be a PIC. Funny to have this conversation, one of my clients this week was many years ago one of my best first officers. Of course he is here as a PIC. How this is relevant is training a pilot is pretty easy you have certain standards and they can either meet those standards or not. You can show them technique to help and work on their SOP's but either they can do the job or not. With art instruction about the best you can do is show some of the process, be honest and tell them it is derivative crap if it is and hopefully recognize good work if you see it. It has to be soul destroying.

ken

[ken hatch]

Making slow progress on the trash can. Between the day job and Tucson Summer not much is done on any day. I have cleaned up the sides and trimmed the top.

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Next up are the two trim pieces. The bottom trim will be attached and form the foot of the trash can. The top trim will be free floating, removable, and hold the trash sack in place. It will also have a lid. The biggest holdup is getting to the wood needed to make the trim. With my usual brilliance and forethought, when I cleaned up the shop after moving the benches I put the Alder on the bottom of the stack and piled the rest of the loose wood on top. Oh well I need the exercise.

ken

[Michael J Evans]

Mike,

Thanks, the two benches set the way they are is very handy. No backsliding, in fact we have three months of "Camp Hosting" for the Oregon State Parks System booked starting in August. Maybe by then it will be safe to visit.

I had a long reply dealing with vernacular, folk, outsider art, or whatever you want to call it furniture. which is something I've been thinking about for some time. I deleted it because it didn't really say what I wanted to say and could have been easily misunderstood. Bottom line, I love seeing what you, Derek, and Mark make but my work tends to the vernacular. There is a place for both and frankly I love looking and studying both.

BTW, back in the day, when I was doing my post baccalaureate, black T-shirt wearing, art babel speaking, studio art studies, I was always drawn to vernacular art, it had a life that was seldom found in academic art. I'm still pretty much wearing that black T-shirt and someday I'll get that post finished.

ken

Ken if you don't mind asking what part of Oregon? Am I going to see a camp host with a Moravian next summer on one of our camping trips?

[ken hatch]

Ken if you don't mind asking what part of Oregon? Am I going to see a camp host with a Moravian next summer on one of our camping trips?

Michael,

August we will be in the Valley of The Rogue State Park, Sept. The Cove Palisades State Park, and I'm not sure about Oct. MsBubba set it up but it is over in the Eastern part of Oregon by a pretty big lake. If you see a motorhome parked in a camp host spot with two OF's, one still a cute Scottish Lass, and a Moravian workbench be sure to stop and say howdy.

ken

[Michael J Evans]

Michael,

August we will be in the Valley of The Rogue State Park, Sept. The Cove Palisades State Park, and I'm not sure about Oct. MsBubba set it up but it is over in the Eastern part of Oregon by a pretty big lake. If you see a motorhome parked in a camp host spot with two OF's, one still a cute Scottish Lass, and a Moravian workbench be sure to stop and say howdy.

ken

Both sounds like nice spots. Cove palisades is on lake billy chinook, which if I remember right is well known for bull trout. Bring a flyrod.

[ken hatch]

Both sounds like nice spots. Cove palisades is on lake billy chinook, which if I remember right is well known for bull trout. Bring a flyrod.


Thanks Michael,

I will along with the kayaks.

ken

[ken hatch]

Well, I moved all the wood pile wood off the Alder and rescued a few boards. Next is sawing eight trim blanks.

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I have a number of nice, well sharpened Disston and Atkins hand saws and even a Bad Axe Panel saw and 80% of the time I'll use one of the Stanley 26" Hard Point saws. Often on larger joints, like on a work bench, I'll use the Stanley or one of the other hand saws for joinery instead of one of the large back saws. Go figure.

The other kink, I have room after the bench move to easily set up the saw benches. The saw benches are perfect knee height and rock solid. They even have holes for using hold fasts. In fact they were set up to use tonight. I ended up using the work bench. For some reason I prefer using the work bench for short cutoffs. Does anyone else do the same?


ken

[Phil Mueller]

Can’t say I have a preference for sawing. Pulling out the saw bench or grabbing a couple of bench hooks takes about the same effort. I use a vintage western saw with the saw bench and backsaws with the bench hooks. Up to 3/4 stock and less than 7-8” wide, either way works. A few swipes on a shooting board and done. Prior to having a saw bench, I am guilty of actually crawling up on the work bench to break down stock with a western saw.

I’ll use the hardened tooth Stanleys for rough work with plywood, mdf, treated lumber, etc.

[ken hatch]

Can’t say I have a preference for sawing. Pulling out the saw bench or grabbing a couple of bench hooks takes about the same effort. I use a vintage western saw with the saw bench and backsaws with the bench hooks. Up to 3/4 stock and less than 7-8” wide, either way works. A few swipes on a shooting board and done. Prior to having a saw bench, I am guilty of actually crawling up on the work bench to break down stock with a western saw.

I’ll use the hardened tooth Stanleys for rough work with plywood, mdf, treated lumber, etc.

Phil,

If I tried to crawl up on the work bench today I'd either end up in Urgent Care, MsBubba would have to help me off, or both. :p

ken

[ken hatch]

Starting to fit the base trim/foot to the box:

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ken

[ken hatch]

This is where the shop changes are paying off. With the two benches facing each other, on the off bench I have the bench hook for sawing to rough length and next to it is the shooting board for trimming. All I have to do to work between the two benches is to do a 180.

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Pretty cool.


ken

[ken hatch]

Bottom trim has been cut and fitted. Tomorrow I'll clean it up, round the top edges, then hot hide glue the trim to the box.

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Hot hide glue is perfect for this job. Just use a rub joint, after a minute or so the trim piece will not creep or move. let it cure overnight and the job is done. The other advantage is any squeeze out can be cleaned up with a rag and warm water.

I'm not in the short rows just yet but getting close.

ken

[James Pallas]

The only problem with hide glue is not using it and getting it ready. Makes you want to keep a lot of work going on so you can keep the glue cooking all of the time and not have to deal with setting up for a short run. Sort of like the old still out in the woods, just need to use up the product and keep it going.

[ken hatch]

The only problem with hide glue is not using it and getting it ready. Makes you want to keep a lot of work going on so you can keep the glue cooking all of the time and not have to deal with setting up for a short run. Sort of like the old still out in the woods, just need to use up the product and keep it going.

James,

I normally try to turn the pot on at least every other day and most days the first thing I do when walking into the shop is turn the glue pot on, the glue can and likely will go bad by the third day or so without being at temp. If I know I will not be using any for a couple of weeks and there is a good amount of glue in the pot I will sometimes spread it on a screen to dry. You can use the dried glue like hide glue pearls, re-hydrate and re-heat and it will work fine. Normally I try to plan my use so if it is going to be a week or two between use I try to make just a little extra and toss when finished.

Hide glue, either liquid or hot doesn't work or is best for everything but one or the other usually comes pretty close. You have to pay a little more attention to your glue when using hot hide glue vs liquid or yellow but when the glue job is in the hot glue wheelhouse it is worth it.

BTW, I like your analogy.

ken

[ken hatch]

The base trim is glued. It still needs trimming and cleaning up but that will have to wait on the glue to cure a little more. While waiting on the glue I'll make the removable top trim and lid. Followed by the clean up and a good soaking and rubbing with Tung oil and that sucker will be finished

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Unless MsBubba has plans for me, next up is a knockdown shavehorse so I can get rid of the one in the middle of the shop.

ken

[ken hatch]

I've finished the kitchen trash can base unit and have the first application of Tung oil on it. The removable top trim unit is in glue up and the lid also needs glue up.

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I expect two or three more applications of Tung oil to finish the can.

MsBubba is off running the streets and beaches of Oregon and will be back in Tucson by the first of November. At that time I'll find out if I made a nice trash can for the shop or an OK one for the kitchen :p.

ken

[Curt Putnam]

Ken, I'm curious about the apparent size. Seems rather tall for a standard 16 gallon kitchen trash bag. Nice work. I love Alder

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Ken,

Have been following and enjoying. Also curious about the size and what you'll use for liners. And the nails (sorry if I missed the details on the nails)...

C

[ken hatch]

Ken, I'm curious about the apparent size. Seems rather tall for a standard 16 gallon kitchen trash bag. Nice work. I love Alder


Curt,

Thanks, the Alder is really nice to work. It is a little soft and dents easily but for this application a few dents add to its authenticity :D.

It has a removable false bottom that is about 300mm from the floor, a 16 gal bag works very well. What I like about the height is no need to bend over to use.

ken

[ken hatch]

Hi Ken,

Have been following and enjoying. Also curious about the size and what you'll use for liners. And the nails (sorry if I missed the details on the nails)...

C

Chris,

Liners are standard size 16 gal kitchen trash bags from, where else, Costco. :p

The nails are rose head cut nails. I'll take a photo of one and post it the next update, I expect one or two more posts before the build is finished.

ken

[James Pallas]

Nicely done. Your trash must be more deserving than mine that only gets stainless for its final trip.

[ken hatch]

Nicely done. Your trash must be more deserving than mine that only gets stainless for its final trip.


Thanks James, I'm in the short rows. One more day will allow me to finish but the day job intrudes,

kn

[ken hatch]

Top trim is finished, only the lid left to do.

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Day job may intrude tomorrow but a few more hours in the shop and this sucker is finished. BTW the original is in the background.

ken

[ken hatch]

The kitchen trash can is finished and holding trash:

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ken

[Phil Mueller]

Very nice, Ken. Love the finish. Looks great with the kitchen table.

[Mike Allen1010]

Well done, practical project that will get used every day – congratulations! You get to play with wood in the shop and The boss is happy with the final project – I call that a win-win!

[Mark Rainey]

Good results Ken. Simple, clean lines, practical.

[ken hatch]

Well done, practical project that will get used every day – congratulations! You get to play with wood in the shop and The boss is happy with the final project – I call that a win-win!

Thanks Mike,

Back in the butt scratching stage of the build I was going back and forth between joints and each had its "yes but". Then I remembered I had several large bags of rose head cut nails that had been on a tool room shelf forever. For something like this, butt joints reinforced with cut nails would be perfect, quick, easy, strong, and the rose head nails could add a decorative touch. Keep it from being too plain and IKEA looking.

Anyway, that's where I ended up. I can't remember the last time other than shop fixtures that I used a butt joint or even nails of any kind. Would I do it again? In a heart beat, it was a fun, no stress build and frankly the cut nails with the hot hide glue butt joints are much stronger than I expected. I'd have to run over it with the motorhome to break the joint and for now I kinda like the look of the nails. You can't see it in the photo but the pull is attached with two nails as well.

Ms Bubba doesn't know about it yet (she comes home from Oregon mid month), it will be interesting to see her reaction. I've kept the old trash can in the shop just in case, after all these years I've never figured her out. Guess that's what keeps life interesting.

BTW, I may have to take the truck to pick MsBubba up in Oregon, the mirror that shook off coming down I-5 on the last trip still hasn't been replaced, I'm not sure what the hold up is but I'll bet it will be blamed on the virus.

ken

[ken hatch]

Very nice, Ken. Love the finish. Looks great with the kitchen table.

Thanks Phil,

When I started thinking about replacing the old trash can my thought was to use Alder to match the base of the table. That plus Alder is really cheap and easy to work. With the Alder softness, the coming dents from use will just add to the character of the can :p, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

ken

[ken hatch]

Good results Ken. Simple, clean lines, practical.

Thanks Mark. It still needs to pass the MsBubba test.

ken