Delta/Invicta RS 15 shaper question...

[Mike Kees]

I have posted about these machines before. This time is different though,because I just bought one. My question is about bearings in the quill. There is a grease zerk on the top bearing with instructions on how often and what type of grease to use to lubricate.My question is : How much grease do you put in there ?

[Jared Sankovich]

I dont have a rs15, but one of my shapers came with a grease zerk. When I rebuilt the spindle I decided to eliminate it. The consensus was it was a flawed design as over greasing a bearing was worse than leaving it alone.

[brent stanley]

If it's at all practical, I would consider cleaning it out and regreasing manually, properly and following a run in protocol. Then you really ought to be good for a long time, depending on how much you use it. Any annual grease addition is a very small amount, far less than a full depression of most grease guns that's for sure though small volume grease guns exist.

[Mike Kees]

Thanks for the replies. Jared what you said about ever greasing a bearing is worse than leaving it alone is what i have heard as well,hence my post.How do you determine when to rebuild the spindle/replace bearings ? When I bought this machine I test ran it,very smooth and no noise on rundown after it was shut off. The spindle has .001 runout at the top (6 inch capacity) . Everywhere else that I positioned my indicator on the spindle showed no runout at all . As this machine is obviously used and I am the third owner that I know of I have no idea if/when the bearings have ever been touched. The only other things I need to do are take apart and clean/lubricate the fence and buy a set of replacement collars.

[Mike Kees]

Brent to do what you are suggesting would be a take out the spindle and rebuild situation ,right ? The information plate on the fence that explains what type and how often of grease to use but fails to say how much,says that the top bearing is a special "high speed bearing".

[ED Budzinski]

Packing a bearing 1/3 full of grease is the maximum recommended by most bearing MFG's . Contact a major bearing distributor and they can tell you the specific amount of grease to use or find out for you .

[Mike Kees]

Thanks Ed. Now I won't have to wing it.

[Bill Dufour]

Is this open roller bearings or just sealed unit ball bearings? Not sure that a wood machine needs better quality then a truck bearing since you do not need super precision bearings.
Bil lD

[Jared Sankovich]

Is this open roller bearings or just sealed unit ball bearings? Not sure that a wood machine needs better quality then a truck bearing since you do not need super precision bearings.
Bil lD

If replacement was needed one would still want a high quality "semi" precision bearing. Not so much for the wood, but to keep the machine from vibrating apart.

[Bill Dufour]

I agree a semi precision is a good choice. I have heard class3 called electric motor quality. That is pretty much the lowest quality any Real maker sells. I have read that the little bearings sold for skate board wheels are mostly very high class bearings. like ABEC 9! A big waste of money but it impresses the user and may even cause more friction. That precision is probably lost after a few jumps as races and balls dent(brinelling) and the tires get flat spots.
I honestly doubt they are really that quality coming from china with no certificates or markings. I do not think anyone here could test them to that level. Heck I bet almost everyone would touch them and the measuring tools with their hands causing heat distortion.
Bill D.

https://www.astbearings.com/bearing-tolerances-precision-levels.html

[David Kumm]

Generally higher end machines had an exit path for old grease to flow as new replaced it. You might want to check your machine for an exit fitting. Once you know the bearing size, you can determine the rpm limit of a greased shielded bearing ( sealed is likely a poor choice due to the speed ). That limit tells you what precision and what clearance will be needed. If the bearing has a stamped steel cage it is likely ABEC 1 or 3 and hopefully standard clearance. If the cage is machined brass or phenolic you have a precision bearing and either normal or C2 clearance will be appropriate. The thing you are trying to avoid is having to run a C3 clearance to compensate for the lack of precision in a spindle bearing. The larger the bearing the greater load capability which is what you want but the lower the rpm limit. Thus the need for better bearings. New machines cheat with smaller bearings and the user isn't informed enough to care. The RS was a decent build so I'm guessing it runs decent sized quality bearings. Dave

[Mike Heidrick]

I use some Large Becker VTLF 250sk rotary vane Vacuum pumps on my CNC setuo for vacuum hold down. The pumps (not motor) have a grease zerk. They use Kluber Amblygon TA 15/2 grease.

https://www.klueber.com/us/en/products-service/products/amblygon-ta-15-2/9988/

AMBLYGON TA 15/2 is a long-term and high-temperature lubricating grease based on mineral oil and polyurea. This lubricating grease is used for long-term or lifetime lubrication in the machine-building sector covering a wide service temperature range up to 150 °C. AMBLYGON TA 15/2 offers good adhesion, resistance to hot and cold water and diluted alkaline and acid solutions.AMBLYGON TA 15/2 is resistant to oxidation and ageing and protects against corrosion.

[Mike Kees]

David thanks for the bearing info. I just got the machine wired up yesterday. All I can say is it is amazing how smooth and powerful this shaper is. I took apart and cleaned the fence ,freeing up the adjustment to work well. Ordered some new handles for fence adjustments that were broken. I have tracked down grease from cross referencing the listed brands and specs on the info plate. Also purchased a small pistol grease gun to control the quantity better. My plan is to give it a small bit of grease and use the machine for now. The only measurable runout with my dial indicator was .001 right at the top of my spindle ,the two other locations I checked (middle and bottom) there was no measurable runout. There is no extra noise or vibration on wind down of the motor. So as far as I know my bearings at this point are fine.

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks for the replies. Jared what you said about ever greasing a bearing is worse than leaving it alone is what i have heard as well,hence my post.How do you determine when to rebuild the spindle/replace bearings ? When I bought this machine I test ran it,very smooth and no noise on rundown after it was shut off. The spindle has .001 runout at the top (6 inch capacity) . Everywhere else that I positioned my indicator on the spindle showed no runout at all . As this machine is obviously used and I am the third owner that I know of I have no idea if/when the bearings have ever been touched. The only other things I need to do are take apart and clean/lubricate the fence and buy a set of replacement collars.

Sorry I missed your question in there. The bearings in my machine were locked up when I bought it so it was relatively easy to tell they needed replaced. Best I can tell it was milling a lot of mdf in its previous life with only 1 of the 2 dust ports being used and the mdf powder made it into the bearings. This machine only used double 6008zz bearings on top so it wasn't made to last indefinitely anyway.