How best to glue up separated joints in old chest of drawers

[Thomas Stanley]

Hello! First post for me, and glad to have a community to help with a question. I've have an old chest of drawers that belonged to my father that we stored away for the last 12 years. Not sure when and how this happened, but the carcass has separated from the legs, some of which are warped. From the attached pics, it appears that this happened once before (very long ago) and someone used some kind glue like caulking which was obviously ineffective. They are tongue and groove joints and I can pull them slightly more apart as need to get glue down in the joint as well as possible. The question is, what glue? I'm thinking pre-mixed hide glue for the reasonably long open time, and carefully applied pipe clamps. And is this plan advisable at all, or is there some other approach to putting this back together (to be a gift to my daughter)?

Thanks in advance for any and all help!

Tom

[Phil Mueller]

Thomas, welcome to the creek! That will be a great gift for your daughter. I enjoy restoration projects, but they are a labor of love. Without close examination, it’s hard to give you specific recommendations. In general, though, to ensure a long lasting fix, it would be best to take it apart, clean all the existing glue from the joints, fix any issues with the mortise and tenons and then re-glue it. Any wood glue would work. Trouble with just squeezing in more glue is that the existing glue may keep it from bonding together well. There are also places (like the panel sides if I’m seeing it correctly) that shouldn’t be glued in order to allow for wood movement.

Most older pieces used hide glue. That may or may not be the case with your dresser. I have had good luck with just a hair dryer set on high and heating the joint until it is hot to the touch. Then carefully pry it apart. Mark everything carefully in order to get it back together correctly. You may find that you will need to clean out a broken tenon from the mortise and make a new floating tenon to secure the joint.

If you want to get some very good info on restoration, watch the Thomas Johnson restoration videos on YouTube.

Good luck!

[lowell holmes]

Go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a bottle of Titebond Ultimate. A bottle will last you for a long time. It gives you a permanent joint.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

My biggest concern is that in general, glue does not adhere to glue. it is possible, therefore, that if you simply apply more glue it will not adhere. If they did use hide glue, which I have never used, I think that you will not have a problem with the repair. Be sure to clean out as much of the glue as you can (chisels, sand paper, what ever).

I do like the titebond glues.

As a last resort, if you can get nothing to adhere, epoxy might be convinced to work. Last resort only in my opinion.

If the mortise is long enough, you also might be able to "pin it" with a dowel with a dowel.

[Jim Dwight]

I would take it apart, even if I had to put a little flush cut saw in the crack and saw off the tenons. It wouldn't be too hard to recut the mortises (especially with a domino) and get a good strong joint.

[glenn bradley]

I think you have picked up on the concern that just squirting more glue into a failed joint often just glues things to the original glue that is already failing. Disassembly, repair and re-assembly of the joinery is the best answer for a valid, strong, long lasting repair. I see some woodworking items in the background which makes me think you would be able to do this.

Restoration is a thankless job when compared to the effort required. I hold those folks who enjoy this sort of thing and do it well in very high regard. Some of them can do things that seem almost magical.

If a quick, hack is more in line with the effort you want to put into this you will need to explore the integrity of the material that is left. If the vertical with the mortise has solid material available for a mechanical connector, squirting in some glue and adding a couple of well placed pocket holes could pull things together. Their ability to stay together will depend on a lot of things; integrity of the material screwed into, whether the glue squirted in hits old glue or bare wood, the fit of the joint, general handling of the piece over its life, etc. But hey, it's a hack not a fix ;-)

Let us know what you decide.

[Frank Pratt]

Go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a bottle of Titebond Ultimate. A bottle will last you for a long time. It gives you a permanent joint.

This won't work & will just make things worse. Titebond will not stick to itself or to hide glue.

Taking it apart, cleaning up the joints & regluing with hide glue is the way to go. Hide glue will bond to old dried hide glue. As mentioned, Thomas Johnson is a great resource for furniture restoration. He does stuff just like this project.

https://www.youtube.com/user/johnsonrestoration

[Mike Henderson]

I would take it apart, even if I had to put a little flush cut saw in the crack and saw off the tenons. It wouldn't be too hard to recut the mortises (especially with a domino) and get a good strong joint.

I agree with this recommendation. If the chest was made in the 20th century, it's almost certain it was not glued with hide glue. I'd disassemble, clean the surfaces, glue veneer to the tenons if they're too thin after cleaning, and then glue the chest with modern glue the same way you would if it was new construction.

Fixing old furniture is a task because you have to disassemble, clean, and fix problems that come from age. It's often more work than building new.

Mike

[Andrew Hughes]

I would also surrender to the fact it will need to be taken apart. Before that’s done I would place a clamp around the open jointery to see how much pressure it takes to close the joints.
You should see a improvement in clamping the parts back together after the cleaning fixing part.
Good Luck

[Lee Schierer]

I would take it apart, even if I had to put a little flush cut saw in the crack and saw off the tenons. It wouldn't be too hard to recut the mortises (especially with a domino) and get a good strong joint.


I agree completely with taking it apart and cleaning as much of the old glue off as possible.

[lowell holmes]

You have to clean the joint, but the Tightbond glue is superior to other glues. I have even used it outside..

It is not cheap, but it is permanent.

[Mike Henderson]

You have to clean the joint, but the Tightbond glue is superior to other glues. I have even used it outside..

It is not cheap, but it is permanent.

The problem with any PVA glue is that it is not gap filling so the joint has to be tight before you glue it up. One problem with restoration is that tenons are often not tight in their mortises when you go to put the joint together. One reason is that sometimes the joint has been slipping for a while and it's worn. Another reason is that when you clean the old glue out of the mortise and off the tenon you've enlarged the mortise and made the tenon thinner. You can glue veneer to the tenon (do both sides so the joint is not offset) to make a tight fit.

But if you just glue a loose joint with PVA it generally won't hold long term.

Mike

[lowell holmes]

If your getting loose joints, mix sawdust in the glue and see if that helps.

[Andrew Hughes]

If your getting loose joints, mix sawdust in the glue and see if that helps.
Lowell your taking crazy:confused:
Never mix sawdust with joints. Is that really something people do now.
I haven’t rolled one since the late 80s.:)
Mike doesn’t need any pointers he a very accomplished woodworker.

[Doug Dawson]

I agree completely with taking it apart and cleaning as much of the old glue off as possible.

I totally agree. I’d also point out that it’s helpful to try and understand why the thing came apart in the first place, so you can mitigate the cause and avoid it happening again.

[Mike Henderson]

If you're getting loose joints, mix sawdust in the glue and see if that helps.

If there was some reason I couldn't make a tight fitting joint, I'd use epoxy. Epoxy is gap filling and can produce an acceptable joint when the joint is not tight. But a stronger joint will result from a good tight fitting joint to begin with.

Mike

[Jim Matthews]

Consider Andrew's recommendation.

If you disassemble the carcass, do one "face" at a time. Start at the back where the first attempts won't show. Don't apply glue to the panels lest seasonal expansion break the joints.

It's a nice looking piece, worthy of some effort.
The lumber alone would be many 100s of dollars.
*****

I would knock it apart and replace all the tenons with "floating" tenons. This would be a repeatable task suited to a power router.

http://woodarchivist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2915-Floating-Tenon-Joinery-1.jpg

[Rob Luter]

Watch a few resoration vids from Thomas Johnson: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd8v3SbzGP9_wuSOr_xk_eA

This guy has some serious game. I'm guessing he'd add loose tenons or a dowel to supplement the joints. I'll concur that to do this right you'll need to take the case apart and scrape the old glue off.

[Thomas McCurnin]

That dresser is a bit of a mess, lots of failed joints and the caulking didn't help matters at all.

On the one hand, it looks like with all the failed joints, it ought to be pretty easy to disassemble that rascal using pipe clamps with reversed heads, so they apply pressure outwards. Take your time, apply some heat and/or steam. I might take a week to disassemble the dresser. Mark the pieces with tape or a sharpie on inconspicuous locations with arrows, numbers, etc. Scrape everything down and reassemble with PVA glue or epoxy.

On the other hand, and this what I initially thought, if the joints are loose and move back together with clamps, I would be tempted to apply epoxy with a syringe and small brushes and re-clamp the thing. If its just a stupid dresser and not an heirloom, I might try this. Lipstick on a pig. But if this is a treasured heirloom, then disassemble, and do it right.

[Bill Yacey]

Do not used prepared hide glue. It has additives to keep it liquid at room temperature that makes it hygroscopic as time passes. Eventually it will absorb humidity and fall apart.

Prepare your own hide glue from granules and do not heat past 150F, as it will weaken the glue. The viscosity will be right when a continuous stream runs of the brush when lifted from the glue in the pot. If it drips in separate droplets, it's too thin.

Use a hair drier to preheat the wood of the pieces to be glued just before applying the hide glue. This helps to prevent it from gelling while clamping up the joint.