Front porch steps

[Charles Grauer]

I have to build a set of steps for my son’s front porch. It is a Sears home built in the 20’s is my best guess. What type of wood would you recommend? Cedar, white oak, or pressure treated or something else. I’m sure he will paint them to match the house. The trouble with pressure treated is it is so wet and shrinks. I would like to dovetail or dado the treads into the side piece for a sturdy step.


i need ideas and recommendations. Charles

[Harvey Miller]

Well here's an article on stairs that are dadoed in-
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/09/12/shop-built-housed-stringer-stairs

[Bill Dufour]

location and climate. does he have ice or snow as a design consideration? Will tons of snow fall from the roof and break up things? Many people are surprised when they find california has some of the highest snow loadings nthe world. I am smart enough to not live in that part that gets 30-50" a year.
Bill D

[Charles Grauer]

Harvey: Thank you, will take a look. Charles

[Andrew Pitonyak]

How many steps? Is this one step, two steps, etc...?

[Charles Grauer]

Bill: We live in upstate NY. Just moved here to be near our son as we are getting older we need his help. We live near the Hudson River in Poughkeepsie apx 50 miles south of Albany. I don’t think much snow will fall off the roof on that part of the house. But it gets hotter here than I expected and can get really cold in the winter. On a normal year lots of rain but dry as a boot right now. Trees are suffering from lack of rain.

Thanks, things to consider. Charles

[Roger Feeley]

I remember reading an article in Smithsonian magazine many years ago by an architect specializing in stairs. He wrote that the current standards are inadequate and always have been.

so, will your son be visited by the elderly or somewhat infirm? Consider something like 16” treads and 8” risers. Our house was built to code and, generally I like it a lot. My one regret is that I didn’t request more and wider treads on the front porch. Our treads are a brick and a half. Two bricks would have made a big difference.

our daughters house is really bad. The tread (just one) is one brick and I really hate it. My master plan is to find 1/2 of a grist mill stone and have it placed as an extension for that brick. That’s not my idea. George Washington’s Mount Vernon makes extensive use of those stones cut in half as treads to the out buildings. My daughters house was built in 1860 so the stone would fit right in. Since our house is on the same property and connected by breezeway (ala mt Vernon) the other half of the stone would fit perfectly at our place.

[Charles Grauer]

Roger: Thank you for your thoughts. Yes it will be visited by old people, my wife and I. 10” tread are reall to narrow, I like what you are saying and think the treads need to be 12 to 14” if we can stand the length. Thanks. Charles

[Charles Grauer]

I think it will be 5 or 6. Need to go visit and make sure charles

[lowell holmes]

Check this site for good wood choices.

https://www.google.com/search?q=best+outdoor+wood+species&oq=outside+wood+species&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l4.22743j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Charles Grauer]

Thank you Lowell

[Tom M King]

8" rise with 16" run??? I think maybe a typing mistake was made.

[Ron Selzer]

8" rise with 16" run??? I think maybe a typing mistake was made.

I read 8" tread depth , 16" wide, and nothing about riser height.
Could be wrong do to recovering from 3 hrs surgery this afternoon and doing pain meds now
Ron
Edit to add, go wider on front steps by adding concealed stringers.
If the house can visually carry it

[David Masters]

I built steps for my porch last year. My local lumber yard suggested pressure treated for the stringers. They had bull nosed treads that were true one inch quarter-sawn Douglas Fir. The risers were flat-sawn Douglas Fir. I bought good paint to cover the exposed wood. The last porch steps lasted better than 20 years using the same materials.

Dave

[Jon Nuckles]

Pressure treated wood that is kiln dried after treatment (kdat)
is dry enough to paint immediately.

[Jim Dwight]

I would definitely make the stringers out of pressure treated 2x12. Wide treads could require too deep a notch, even in a 2x12. You would need to lay it out and see. 8 inch rise is more than allowed by code, at least for indoor stairs. You want to keep it closer to 7 inches. 12 inch tread is fine IMHO. Normal treads come 12 inches wide if I remember right. My last stair build was indoor, however, which is what I remember.

You are right that PT straight from the lumber yard will not accept paint well but if you build the stairs and then come back in a month, it will. (Maybe 2 months if there is a lot of rain). And the time with no finish will not hurt the PT. I probably would not paint the treads since whatever you use will wear off. I would not use any fancy joints, especially in wet PT they won't work great and will greatly add to the effort. Simple PT stringers and treads with screws to hold the treads down will work well and last a very long time. If necessary, the screws can be retightened after the wood dries some. This is carpentry, not even finish carpentry, work but stairs built this way hold up and last. You could be dressier with the posts and rails. I recently used composite vinyl material on my dock and it was not difficult to work with. The big advantage is no painting. It can be used for handrail with different connectors. PT stringers and treads with vinyl handrails and ballisters would look pretty good, not require much maintenance, and last a very long time.

[Charles Grauer]

Thank you David,Ron,and Tom. I just need now to see what the local home center has in stock. Jon, I like the kdat suggestion .

[Charles Grauer]

Thank you Jim. Good information. Charls

[Randall J Cox]

I recently bought some treads at Lowes, close to quarter sawn, oak, and they were a full 1" thick, 36" wide and 11.75" deep. And they were all dead flat, so I bought some to use on the new top I was making for a radial arm saw.

[Wayne Cannon]

I've been very pleased with Ipe for outdoor steps, no finishing required.

[Charles Grauer]

Interesting, I just don’t here where I could buy it. Thanks

[Steve Rozmiarek]

If concrete is an option, it sure holds up better in 4 season climates. The old rule of thumb is riser height + tread depth = 18. It does make a comfortable stair. Works out well to cut your 2x12 stringers to accept a 1x8 riser (7 1/4" actual) and 2x12 treads (11 1/4" actual).

[Zachary Hoyt]

Unless it's a very upscale house 2x12 stringers and paired 5/4x6 decking treads are very fast and pretty economical, and last a long time. We live in the snow belt off Lake Ontario and there is a set on the upstairs of the house here that was added as a sort of a fire escape about 30 years ago and are still going strong. About 15 years ago we flipped the deck boards over since they had dried out and cracked on top, and they looked as good as new on the bottom. I had to put a 6 step set on a porch one day last summer after building a ramp for someone, and it only took about an hour, working by myself, including cutting the notches. The guy at the lumberyard said they only sold pre-cut 2 and 3 step stringers, but he advised buying a 3 and using it as a template to mark the 2x12s, then returning it, which I did.

[Charles Grauer]

Thanks Zachary

[Jim Dwight]

I refuse to use pre cut stringers but they are certainly and option. I just enjoy laying out a stringer on a 2x12. With a pre cut you will have one step that is not the same height as the rest, usually the bottom. It might be close, it might not.

To lay out a stringer, you need to know the total rise from where the stringer will meet the ground or foundation to the top. Then you divide that distance by different potential rises until you get a rise not much over 7 inches. The last rise is usually up to the porch so you set the stringers down that distance plus the thickness of the steps. Inside the house you have to consider the flooring thickness and normally take a bit off the stringer to compensate for the rise up to the top of the first step. But outside you will probably have to also consider a difference in elevation across the area the stairs will meet the ground. You just want the rise to the bottom step to be pretty consistent with the rest of the stairs. To lay out the stringer, you put little nuts sold for this on a framing square for the rise and run dimensions and mark the notches on the 2x12. Traditionally you use a circular saw to make the cuts plus a jigsaw if you don't want to over run your cuts (recommended). I found my tracksaw to be very handy for this the last time I did it. The cuts were not long but I still found it much easier to keep the cut straight with the tracksaw and that helped the treads to set more solidly on them. But with PT treads it won't make as much difference.

I would not use oak treads on an outside staircase but I found them at the best price at a local lumber yard, not a home center. The kind of place that is only open during the week.

[John K Jordan]

Thank you David,Ron,and Tom. I just need now to see what the local home center has in stock. Jon, I like the kdat suggestion .

I agree with the KDAT suggestion. The wood is often a better quality as well. I haven't seen it at the local big box stores but it is available at the builder's supply the pros use.

JKJ

[Scott T Smith]

As others have mentioned, KDAT Pressure treated will stay flat. Buy the one rated for ground contact and it will last for years.

[Tom M King]

https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/111

I like this kind better than the hex shaped ones. I use a sharp no.3 or 4 pencil to layout the first stringer, and use that one to mark the others by.

Rise and Run should total from 17 to 17-1/2 inches. Don't forget to take the tread thickness off the bottom of the stringers when you're doing the layout.

You should end with every step being the same rise.

A long straight edge should hit every step nose, and the floor at the top.

[Bill Yacey]

For the elderly, a 6 to 6 1/2" riser makes for a comfortable stair. Definitely not 8".

[Tom M King]

I built the steps going out onto our covered dog patio with 5" rise, and 12-1/2" run, so the puppies can go up, and down easily. No one has ever made any comment about those steps, or even paid any attention to the way they walk.

[Mel Fulks]

The dogs are getting the luxury treatment . 5 and 1/2 -----12 is the ideal in the old books for people. It's just regular
walking...no "climbing" involved.

[Bruce King]

I've been very pleased with Ipe for outdoor steps, no finishing required.

A neighbor used IPE and did a great job. Got it from a lumber yard or ordered it.
He used a special sealer on it recommended by the supplier.