Need advice on first laser cutter

[Debby Heyler]

I’m looking to get my first laser cutter and need some advice (yep, another one of those threads). $2000 to $3000 is what I originally intended to spend but I was a little disappointed looking at the options in that range. I can go up to $4000 or maybe $5000 if it’s worth it. At first I was looking at the Glowforge Basic (40w $2500), the Flux Beamo (30w $1900), or even a Full Spectrum Muse Core Desktop (40w $3500 on sale for $2774). I even looked at the K40 type cutters but that went out the window pretty quick. Turns out I’m a big fan of not having my house burn down. Guess I’m just fussy.

GF makes everything seem so nice and easy till you really start digging and asking questions. I can see why people call them the Cricut of laser cutters. The laser is $500 to replace. You can’t do it yourself. You have to send it in and it can take a month to get back unless you want a refurbished machine. I don’t like that the software is only online but I do have a good internet connection. The Beamo seems like a good alternative but I can find no reliable info about them outside of 2 YouTube videos that are old. The Muse was pretty much the same. Not much info about how well people like them long term. I wasn’t expecting to find some holy grail of a machine, but I was hoping to find something realistically useable for the price.

I’ve seen Boss lasers recommended quite a bit. Their entry level (LS1416) was $4000 ($5000 with tax and shipping). From what I’ve seen they look like a really good choice but again, I had questions. I called the rep and kept him on the phone for about 30 minutes listening to my confusing ramblings. That man was slicker than a used car salesman. He upgraded the laser from a 50w to a 65w and threw in a stand. I almost did it but I’m glad I waited. Stupid me got all excited about getting a laser and didn’t think to check the size. Holy cow is it huge. I don’t have a garage so it has to go inside my house. Unfortunately, it was too wide to fit through the doorway. I really wanted this to happen but I’m not going to tear out the whole back of my house to do it. I’d also have to hire an electrician. He said the machine and the compressor had to each be on their own 20w fuse. If I went with something this big I’d have to set it up at my parents house. They have a workshop but that brings in a whole host of new problems to deal with.

Now I’m back to looking at smaller machines. The biggest doorway on my house is 30.5” so probably 30” would be the biggest I’d be able to get through. Does anyone have experience with these smaller machines? Is the GF worth giving a try and maybe going bigger in the future if it’s worth it? Does anyone have an experience with the Muse? Has anyone even heard of a Beamo? Are there other viable options out there that I missed? I’ve genuinely been trying to learn as much as I can before buying but there’s so much to take into consideration it’s sometimes easy to get lost in it all.

I’m comfortable working with vectors. The software side of it seems pretty straightforward. I’d like to get into 3D engraving as I get more comfortable. It looks easy to do but not easy to do well.

I don’t have any experience with a laser or skills necessary to build or even troubleshoot some of the cheaper K40 type models. I don’t mind having to learn general maintenance like replacing tubes but I’m not sure of my abilities to do things beyond that. I don’t know that I’d ever be able to do something like replace a circuit panel.

Any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.

[art olin]

I’m looking to get my first laser cutter and need some advice (yep, another one of those threads). $2000 to $3000 is what I originally intended to spend but I was a little disappointed looking at the options in that range. I can go up to $4000 or maybe $5000 if it’s worth it. At first I was looking at the Glowforge Basic (40w $2500), the Flux Beamo (30w $1900), or even a Full Spectrum Muse Core Desktop (40w $3500 on sale for $2774). I even looked at the K40 type cutters but that went out the window pretty quick. Turns out I’m a big fan of not having my house burn down. Guess I’m just fussy.

GF makes everything seem so nice and easy till you really start digging and asking questions. I can see why people call them the Cricut of laser cutters. The laser is $500 to replace. You can’t do it yourself. You have to send it in and it can take a month to get back unless you want a refurbished machine. I don’t like that the software is only online but I do have a good internet connection. The Beamo seems like a good alternative but I can find no reliable info about them outside of 2 YouTube videos that are old. The Muse was pretty much the same. Not much info about how well people like them long term. I wasn’t expecting to find some holy grail of a machine, but I was hoping to find something realistically useable for the price.

I’ve seen Boss lasers recommended quite a bit. Their entry level (LS1416) was $4000 ($5000 with tax and shipping). From what I’ve seen they look like a really good choice but again, I had questions. I called the rep and kept him on the phone for about 30 minutes listening to my confusing ramblings. That man was slicker than a used car salesman. He upgraded the laser from a 50w to a 65w and threw in a stand. I almost did it but I’m glad I waited. Stupid me got all excited about getting a laser and didn’t think to check the size. Holy cow is it huge. I don’t have a garage so it has to go inside my house. Unfortunately, it was too wide to fit through the doorway. I really wanted this to happen but I’m not going to tear out the whole back of my house to do it. I’d also have to hire an electrician. He said the machine and the compressor had to each be on their own 20w fuse. If I went with something this big I’d have to set it up at my parents house. They have a workshop but that brings in a whole host of new problems to deal with.

Now I’m back to looking at smaller machines. The biggest doorway on my house is 30.5” so probably 30” would be the biggest I’d be able to get through. Does anyone have experience with these smaller machines? Is the GF worth giving a try and maybe going bigger in the future if it’s worth it? Does anyone have an experience with the Muse? Has anyone even heard of a Beamo? Are there other viable options out there that I missed? I’ve genuinely been trying to learn as much as I can before buying but there’s so much to take into consideration it’s sometimes easy to get lost in it all.

I’m comfortable working with vectors. The software side of it seems pretty straightforward. I’d like to get into 3D engraving as I get more comfortable. It looks easy to do but not easy to do well.

I don’t have any experience with a laser or skills necessary to build or even troubleshoot some of the cheaper K40 type models. I don’t mind having to learn general maintenance like replacing tubes but I’m not sure of my abilities to do things beyond that. I don’t know that I’d ever be able to do something like replace a circuit panel.

Any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.




happy to help,
you need cutter or engraver, etc 3D, there is no way you can get into 3D if your system will not be 3 Axis where 99% of system are...
g mail me to artolin77 , you can always completely dismiss my advice and opinions.
Kind Regards.

[Bill George]

Debby there are hundreds or more Posts and Threads on this Forum about buying a laser. A Search will bring up hours of reading. That's the first thing folks ask and its been asked over and over again. Your asking about a laser, a 3D CNC machine is something entirely different but that is on here also. PS If you have no laser skills or mechanical ability to repair one, please find a dealer near you to purchase from, not eBay!

[Joe Adams]

Since you are in the planning phase, I will suggest that you also need to figure out a way to remove the fumes. This will require an additional electrical circuit and switch for a properly sized exhaust fan. The fan is best set up away from where you are working to reduce the noise. The ducting will have to exit the house through a hole in an open window, wall, or the roof. It will also remove a lot of conditioned air from your house while it is running so keep that in mind.

[Debby Heyler]

happy to help,
you need cutter or engraver, etc 3D, there is no way you can get into 3D if your system will not be 3 Axis where 99% of system are...
g mail me to artolin77 , you can always completely dismiss my advice and opinions.
Kind Regards.

I apologize. I didn't word that right. I meant 3D-ish-looking? I've seen pics that are nicely shaded but look very flat and I've seen ones that look nicely shaded but they look like they have a little depth to them. I know a lasers don't have the ability to do deep engravings but some people have managed to do engravings that look like they have some depth. I was just referring to the technique I've seen some people use to get that look. I'm not actually looking for a 3D printer or a CNC machine. Just a laser cutter.

[Rich Harman]

you need cutter or engraver, etc 3D, there is no way you can get into 3D if your system will not be 3 Axis where 99% of system are...

Most lasers can do 3d engraving. You need to be able to create an image of the 3d design that varies the darkness based upon the height, aka a height map. The laser will then vary the output power according to the value of each pixel. It's mostly a novelty though.

Do a search here for Glowforge, very few people have good things to say about them, grossly overpriced and underperforming. I don't think Full Spectrum has that great of reputation either.

If you learn how the machines work, you can buy most anything and get it to do what you want. If not, then you should pay for someone else's expertise. Boss laser is one option, a mainstream laser like Epilog or Trotec is another.

Regarding the "20w fuse" for the laser and the compressor - first, each electrical circuit will have a circuit breaker. In the old days they were fuses, when too much current went through a circuit they would fail, which would stop the flow of electricity and prevent a fire. Nowadays we use circuit breakers, they "trip" when the current gets too high and then you can manually reset them.

NEVER replace a circuit breaker (or fuse) with a higher value circuit breaker. The purpose of a circuit breaker is to protect the wiring of the house - not the devices that use the electricity. Circuit breakers are matched to the size of the wires used in the walls. If you replace a circuit breaker with a larger size then it will allow more current to go through the wires - which causes them to heat up and possibly start a fire.

As far as requiring a 20A breaker for the compressor, that sounds high to me. A small compressor for the air assist should not need anywhere near that much current.

The LS1416, wow that is a tiny work area for such a large machine. I paid about the same for my machine and it has more power and eight times the work area, but then mine did not come with lifetime free support. You might also consider a used mainstream machine.

[art olin]

I apologize. I didn't word that right. I meant 3D-ish-looking? I've seen pics that are nicely shaded but look very flat and I've seen ones that look nicely shaded but they look like they have a little depth to them. I know a lasers don't have the ability to do deep engravings but some people have managed to do engravings that look like they have some depth. I was just referring to the technique I've seen some people use to get that look. I'm not actually looking for a 3D printer or a CNC machine. Just a laser cutter.

Yes, lasers do deep engravings, laser need to have dynamic focus system, meaning 3rd z axis galvo in addition to 2 -axis x and y, and system have ability to easily operate withing 42mm of z axis ( marking, deep engraving, cutting ) on the materials, usually software extension is involved with zmap module for STL files. 2 axis lasers have ability to work like within 5mm, so people will call it 2.5D or mistake it for 3D. But once you have dynamic system you have really proper 3 axis ability and deep engraving 42mm into any material. Kind Regards.

[art olin]

Most lasers can do 3d engraving. You need to be able to create an image of the 3d design that varies the darkness based upon the height, aka a height map. The laser will then vary the output power according to the value of each pixel. It's mostly a novelty though.



You are confusing working focal depth of regular lasers for 3D or 3 - axis ability in order to be considered 3D or work in "3D", also you are not operating on STL – so no STL files no 3 - axis at all. Kind Regards.

[Rich Harman]

You are confusing working focal depth of regular lasers for 3D or 3 - axis ability in order to be considered 3D or work in "3D", also you are not operating on STL – so no STL files no 3 - axis at all. Kind Regards.

I am not confusing anything.

I think what you are doing is narrowly interpreting the OP's "3D engraving" statement to mean only the type of engraving that can be accomplished with a 3 axis machine. I, on the other hand, interpreted the OP's statement to mean "3D laser engraving". She is talking about a laser after all and lasers can indeed do "3D laser engraving". Wether or not an stl file is involved is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant to 3 axis machines since they can use a variety of file types.

Here is an example of a Trotec laser doing "3D engraving".

www.troteclaser.com/relief-engraving (https://www.troteclaser.com/en-us/knowledge/tips-for-laser-users/relief-engraving/)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXc0jnqZYuA

[art olin]

I am not confusing anything.

I think what you are doing is narrowly interpreting the OP's "3D engraving" statement to mean only the type of engraving that can be accomplished with a 3 axis machine. I, on the other hand, interpreted the OP's statement to mean "3D laser engraving". She is talking about a laser after all and lasers can indeed do "3D laser engraving". Wether or not an stl file is involved is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant to 3 axis machines since they can use a variety of file types.

Here is an example of a Trotec laser doing "3D engraving".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXc0jnqZYuA


yes exactly what i wrote 1:07 - 1:15 - it is exactly what is working focal depth
3 axis is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8VNiOiAxo


Kind Regards.

[Debby Heyler]

I am not confusing anything.

I think what you are doing is narrowly interpreting the OP's "3D engraving" statement to mean only the type of engraving that can be accomplished with a 3 axis machine. I, on the other hand, interpreted the OP's statement to mean "3D laser engraving". She is talking about a laser after all and lasers can indeed do "3D laser engraving". Wether or not an stl file is involved is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant to 3 axis machines since they can use a variety of file types.

Here is an example of a Trotec laser doing "3D engraving".

www.troteclaser.com/relief-engraving (https://www.troteclaser.com/en-us/knowledge/tips-for-laser-users/relief-engraving/)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXc0jnqZYuA

That's beautiful. Much cleaner than a lot of the other stuff I've seen.

[Bill George]

So not watching the video I am assuming the depth of the faux 3D is depending on the shading in the BMP or other image, darker = deeper and more passes.

[Bert Kemp]

I would talk to Ray Scott at Rabbit Laser USA most of his laser will come apart to fit thru smaller door ways. These are top quility machines with excellent support. Might cost a tad more but well worth it.

[Keith Outten]

Most laser engravers can be removed from the stand and tilted 90 degrees so they will pass through a standard doorway. Check the height of the cabinet to verify that it is less than 30" and your in business. They are generally pretty heavy so you will need some help.

[Debby Heyler]

I wanted to thank everyone here for all the help I got. I found an absolute ton of great advice and info on this site. I gave the people at Rabbit a call and can't believe how nice they were. Its definitely more than I wanted to spend (I'm looking at the RL-XX-6040 (https://rabbitlaserusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=170)) but for the difference it makes a huge difference. One of my biggest problems was most of the machines I came across were just too big to fit in the house. They have one that comes apart. I was worried about the weight and how I’d get it into the house once it was here but they have a place 4 hours from me. For $400 they deliver it, take it apart, put it in the house, put it back together, set it up, and show me how to use it. They also have a showroom so I can drive down there and try out the machine myself before buying anything.
I’m still in the planning stage and have some work to do with my house before I decide on anything but that will give me more time to save up and do more research.

[Bert Kemp]

Debby I found Carol and Ray to be very Helpful. They are always there to help if theres a problem. I spent a whole day at Rabbit Ray teaching me how to use the machine. When I upgraded from Win 7 to win 10 Carol spent over an hour on the phone with me walking me thru the setup and install. I'm sure if you go with Rabbit you won't be disappointed .

I wanted to thank everyone here for all the help I got. I found an absolute ton of great advice and info on this site. I gave the people at Rabbit a call and can't believe how nice they were. Its definitely more than I wanted to spend (I'm looking at the RL-XX-6040 (https://rabbitlaserusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=170)) but for the difference it makes a huge difference. One of my biggest problems was most of the machines I came across were just too big to fit in the house. They have one that comes apart. I was worried about the weight and how I’d get it into the house once it was here but they have a place 4 hours from me. For $400 they deliver it, take it apart, put it in the house, put it back together, set it up, and show me how to use it. They also have a showroom so I can drive down there and try out the machine myself before buying anything.
I’m still in the planning stage and have some work to do with my house before I decide on anything but that will give me more time to save up and do more research.

[Joe Adams]

For $400 they deliver it, take it apart, put it in the house, put it back together, set it up, and show me how to use it.

That sounds like money well spent!

Don't forget to plan for the exhaust. That was the big hold up in getting mine running in my home office.

[Bill George]

IF everyone new purchased from a dealer, instead of the cheapest one on eBay we would have a lot less questions on here. Ray Scott is one of the best and there are others of course.

[John Lifer]

A few more comments. Most of the chinese lasers WILL come apart into top and bottom sections. BUT, understand they WILL remain connected via all of the wiring. I moved a 1300x900mm laser into my basement several years ago. Went through a 36" doorway with millimeters to spare. Myself and my wife and daughter. And then only helped stabilize the thing while I picked up on end. Quite a workout that day. I would have gladly paid $400 to have someone do it for me.

Epilogs and Trotecs can do 3d without moving z axis. Chinese machines not without doing multiple layers. At least I haven't found a way. There is NO option for a grey scale gradient with the Chinese software. (may be more the glass tube actually)
If someone wants to prove me wrong, send me the RD file. I'd jump on a Rabbit laser without hesitation. Have heard nothing but good things.

[Rich Harman]

Epilogs and Trotecs can do 3d without moving z axis. Chinese machines not without doing multiple layers. At least I haven't found a way. There is NO option for a grey scale gradient with the Chinese software. (may be more the glass tube actually)
If someone wants to prove me wrong, send me the RD file.

I don't have an RD file but lots of Chinese machines can do 3D engraving. On the Ruida controllers it is called "Output Direct" - you set min and max power values and the software will adjust the laser power between those two based upon the value of each pixel.

[jeremy graziano]

I just acquired a Nova 35 from ThunderlaserUSA, they have a cheaper one Nova 24. So far the service has been awesome. I needed some help and response was within the hour. The machine just seems put together so well and I'm already cutting away happily. I can't speak to long term longevity yet, but so far I have zero regrets going with them.

[Julian Ashcroft]

I'm pretty sure Lightburn can also do the grey scale 3D engraving.

[rich shepard]

Have a friend that is selling his epilog mini 30 watt machine if you want a good one. Check out yjr FB market place and the epilog FB page to find
it
rich

[Larry Allred]

Hi Debby,

The first thing to consider is... what do you want to do with it? When we got ours our first need was to cut wood shapes, 1/8 to 3/8" thick, on a commercial level. We needed at least 50 watts and a 24x18" bed. Decent software and something I can maintain & repair when needed. Our Epilog Helix fit the bill nicely and led us into a lot of new projects. Way more expensive than a small starter kit.

If you want to cut thin wood and acrylic you should probably consider at least 40 watts. Find out if tubes and parts are available. Whole lot better, faster and cheaper to learn to do your own repairs than send the machine back.

I have friends who own Glowforge. They love the software and some of the features. None have run screaming to throw them in the bumpster! :)

You're doing the right thing... homework, asking questions. It's a good sized investment so ask away!



I’m looking to get my first laser cutter and need some advice (yep, another one of those threads).

[Bert Kemp]

Well the last we heard from Debbie was Sept 2nd. Guess she gave up or found a laser and didn't come back to tell us what she ended up doing.