cabinet bases

[vince dale]

I was helping a friend build and install some kitchen cabinets for a customer. This is how he builds his bases so I thought I'd pass it along. Makes for very easy levelling and you can screw a finished face on from the back.

439990 439993

[Jim Becker]

I'm a fan of separate bases and that's generally how I build them. Not only is it easier to level a line of cabinets, especially in older homes, it helps with locking them together into a unit during install, too.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

That is a pretty slick way to do bases. I've used it a few times, but must confess that I don't any more. The reason I quit is that with enough practice, shimming a built in base is actually just as fast to set, and you save a step by not having to tie the cabinets to the base after setting them. There are a couple tricks for making it sure you can level a cabinet from the accessible sides that make setting regular cabinets a breeze. Nothing against the separate base strategy though, it's an effective way to give really good access for leveling cabinets if you are worried about it.

[Jim Becker]

Aside from the ease of leveling a short base because of full access to all sides, it also means that the cabinets are simple rectangular boxes with no cutouts for toe-kicks, etc. That helps make up the time spent creating the bases, but they go together uber quickly due to their nature. It's nice to have choices!

[Jim Dwight]

My most recent project was a 7 foot long base cabinet for my Great Room. I built a separate base out of 2x4s and was surprised I had to remove half an inch of material at the ends due to a dip that big in the floor over the 7 feet. The 2x4s are overkill from a strength standpoint but they are not expensive. I faced them with cut down base molding. That was the cabinet was a simple box and installation was a simple matter of sliding the cabinet on top of the base. I would not have wanted to shim a 1/2 inch gap. My house is 55 years old.

Another benefit of a separate base is in garages or anywhere with a concrete floor. In garages I use pressure treated 2x4s so I do not have to worry about them getting wet. I have some of those cabinets in my near term future.

[tim walker]

Aside from the ease of leveling a short base because of full access to all sides, it also means that the cabinets are simple rectangular boxes with no cutouts for toe-kicks, etc. That helps make up the time spent creating the bases, but they go together uber quickly due to their nature. It's nice to have choices!

Jim, if the cabinets are just going to have drawers vs doors, do you still put a bottom in the cabinet? Seems as if you would have to to connect them. And I am sur eyou would for kitchen?bath etc but what about for the shop?

[Jim Becker]

Jim, if the cabinets are just going to have drawers vs doors, do you still put a bottom in the cabinet? Seems as if you would have to to connect them. And I am sur eyou would for kitchen?bath etc but what about for the shop?

I do put in a bottom, although it would be just as easy to use some narrower cross members. A full bottom is certainly more suitable for helping keep things square and it's also going to be helpful with keeping things like rodents out from the bottom.

I don't have any fixed cabinets in my shop, but would certainly build them with solid panels on the bottom if I did.

[Jim Dwight]

I think the OP was asking Jim Becker but I will chime in. My shop cabinets have a solid 3/4 plywood bottom that rests on the PT 2x4 base. They have all drawers - no doors. I used pretty cheap 3/4 plywood, however. Works fine. I typically work with the doors open so Jim Becker's point about critters definitely applies.

[Robert Engel]

Quit building bases a long time ago. Run a water line, a circuit, or new flooring is a snap.

440160

[Jim Becker]

Quit building bases a long time ago. Run a water line, a circuit, or new flooring is a snap.

440160

This is the method used with the (reasonably good) Ikea base cabinets. It works well and I generally like it, at least where a floor is kinda regular. It would have been a bear to get my kitchen base units level with feet like this, however. A separate base like this thread speaks to made it slam-dunk easy with setting things "level" with a whole line ganged on one base.

It's actually nice that we can all use more than one method, depending on circumstances to best handle the job!

[Dave Sabo]

Quit building bases a long time ago. Run a water line, a circuit, or new flooring is a snap.

440160


Agreed.

There is NO WAY any type of wooden base system , big, small, long , short, indiv, or whole run is quicker to fabricate, transport, install and set to level is faster than a set of legs. In more cases than not, I suspect they are also less expensive.

And don’t forget about those pesky HVAC ducts and central vac systems that run under cabinets too.

Jim, these legs work on severely sloped floors too. They also excel on irregular floors in places where you might have tile in the front of the cabinet but only subfloor in the back. And IKEA didn’t invent or even perfect these legs. They are ubiquitous for all Euro cabinets , including those from Poggenpohl and SieMatic where a set of cabinets can easily approach six figures.

[Jim Becker]

Dave, I didn't suggest that Ikea invented the technique; rather, I mentioned they used it. (They also use the great Blum metal drawer system, too)

I agree that they are unbeatable for adjustability in any situation for a given cabinet. But I retain my preference for a separate base under a gang of separate cabinet boxes simply because it takes care of the whole row at one time without being on my back to adjust all the feet in an awkward position. (especially those in the rear of the cabinet at arm's length away. This is not a "right or wrong" type thing...it's merely a personal preference.

[David Zaret]

i stopped making ladder bases when i discovered the Hafele blocks/feet. i can cut hours out of a build by using those, and the contractors love them as they are adjustable from the front.

[Robert Engel]

Jim, there are levelers the adjust through the cab bottom from the inside.

These (https://www.kitchencabinetdepot.com/LV24.html) look slick I'm going to try them one day.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Quit building bases a long time ago. Run a water line, a circuit, or new flooring is a snap.

440160

Those are pretty good, however I did see a failure with a set of them firsthand. 450# granite top for an island, got away from us a little on the landing and put most of the weight on one corner. The leveler buckled on that corner. I don't set islands on those now.

[Kevin Jenness]

My reservations on leveler legs have to do with heavy counters. If they don't directly catch the weight from the vertical cabinet sides then the decks want to bend and their connection to the sides is stressed. Placing them to catch the weight makes it harder to adjust from inside the box, and I don't feature adjusting the back legs while prone. Legs can be handy in certain situations but I generally prefer ladder bases. Either one is better than integral kicks for material yield on base cabinets.

[Jim Becker]

Either one is better than integral kicks for material yield on base cabinets.

THAT is a very important point!

[mike stenson]

i stopped making ladder bases when i discovered the Hafele blocks/feet. i can cut hours out of a build by using those, and the contractors love them as they are adjustable from the front.

Man, the first time I saw the levelling tool.. Wow.

[Dave Sabo]

Jim, wasn't trying to call you out or convince you. Your comment (preference really) made it sound as if legs weren't good for an "irregular" floor. And that is kinda where they excel.

Lots of guys have the same perspective about adjusting the rear legs. One of them helped develop this to eliminate that reach issue. You're on the ground no matter what system or design.

Axilo -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkU49AtudVE


I've also seen a hybrid using a ledger screwd to the wall in the rear and legs at the front of the cabinet. I don't care for it, but it is pretty fast for production installs.



Robert - LV-level is a bit pricey and takes a fair amount of labort just to install befor you get to the leveling part.


Steve - everything has a failure point. I've seen integrated 1/2" ply sides buckle at the toekick under similar circumstances. Force in shear can be a real bear. One leg supporting 450# by iteself isn't exactly within the design limits either. In compression , legs will easily support stone and concrete tops.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Where do you buy these leveling feet?

[David Zaret]

these are the legs from Hafele that i was referencing. i buy them from Hafele directly, have an account with them. they sell two things i use a lot of - those legs, and the Lamello P-system connectors (clamex and tensos).

[Bobby Robbinett]

I have tried building base cabs any which way imaginable. I used to build separate towers kicks like is mentioned in this thread. I also tried using the Haefel leg systems for a while too. Neither is something that I prefer or use today. I can set my traditional built base cabs in about the same time as it would take me to build, shim and level the separate sub base not counting the setting of the boxes on to the sub base. Plus what do you do when 90% of your base cabs are exposed on one side? Have a group of bases with one side to the floor? That is awkward and a pain. The leveler feet from Haefel are hard on my back and not beneficial in most situations. Almost all of our cabs are going under heavy Quartz or Granite. Not the best situation for leveler feet. I do however like them in150 year old homes where the floor is major out of level.

[Kevin Jenness]

In my world the finished ends are almost always applied so whether or not they run to the floor is independent of the base construction. I find it far easier to shim a ladder base than the inaccessible back corner of a box with integral legs. To each his own.

[Bob Grier]

In most cases I vote for a ledger board along the back and legs in front. It also makes for efficient use of 5' x 5' plywood. Very easy and fast, especially for an uneven floor. The cabinet needs to be attached to the wall studs before setting a granite slab. I would not use legs on an island.

[Ted Calver]

I really like the thought of under cabinet storage (https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/how-to-build-under-cabinet-drawers-increase-kitchen-storage/) in this normally wasted space. There are plenty of things that can be stored in 3" high drawers if you want to go to the trouble to plan for them and it's not a space that typically attracts attention.

[Jim Becker]

I really like the thought of under cabinet storage (https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/how-to-build-under-cabinet-drawers-increase-kitchen-storage/) in this normally wasted space. There are plenty of things that can be stored in 3" high drawers if you want to go to the trouble to plan for them and it's not a space that typically attracts attention.

That's a good point...when there's a need for somewhat concealed storage, this area can be utilized for that with a little planning. It wouldn't ben convenient for oft-used things, but for stuff that needs to be out of sight, it's a viable solution.

[mike stenson]

I've been pondering making essentially those pullout shelves, but with a kick down stop so it becomes a step. My wife's about 5', and the additional 3-4 inches would make things easier on the counter tops. At our last house, I made some lower counters. That helped her, but I'm over 6' so it made those work surfaces useless.

[Dave Sabo]

Almost all of our cabs are going under heavy Quartz or Granite. Not the best situation for leveler feet.

This is simply misguided. Quality leveler feet placed correctly will support a whole lot of weight. I’ve been using them for over 20 years with stone or other heavy hard surface tops exclusively. We’ve never done laminate. Some tops have been 5” thick and way back when we were doing 8” tall toe kick. We have not had one leg failure because of heavy counters. Not one.

The excel at concealed storage too, which we were also doing over 20 yrs ago.

Everyone has their preferences for materials and techniques , and I’m not going to try and convince anyone that legs are best. But to think legs can’t support the weight of heavy stone counters is simply incorrect.

[Frank Pratt]

This is simply misguided. Quality leveler feet placed correctly will support a whole lot of weight. I’ve been using them for over 20 years with stone or other heavy hard surface tops exclusively. We’ve never done laminate. Some tops have been 5” thick and way back when we were doing 8” tall toe kick. We have not had one leg failure because of heavy counters. Not one.

The excel at concealed storage too, which we were also doing over 20 yrs ago.

Everyone has their preferences for materials and techniques , and I’m not going to try and convince anyone that legs are best. But to think legs can’t support the weight of heavy stone counters is simply incorrect.

I agree. I've done a couple of Ikea kitchens (really good bang for the buck) that use the adjustable legs & I bet you could put 3" thick granite tops on & they wouldn't even be stressed.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

This is simply misguided. Quality leveler feet placed correctly will support a whole lot of weight. I’ve been using them for over 20 years with stone or other heavy hard surface tops exclusively. We’ve never done laminate. Some tops have been 5” thick and way back when we were doing 8” tall toe kick. We have not had one leg failure because of heavy counters. Not one.

The excel at concealed storage too, which we were also doing over 20 yrs ago.

Everyone has their preferences for materials and techniques , and I’m not going to try and convince anyone that legs are best. But to think legs can’t support the weight of heavy stone counters is simply incorrect.

Dave, see my post #15. The leveler leg failed. Yes we set the countertop down hard, but impacts on cabinets can happen when the homeowner takes possession to. I don't want the liability if someone gets hurt because something happens in the future. It wouldn't matter what they were doing to cause the failure, the fact that it did would come back on my company. I have no qualms using them on base cabinets, just no islands for me.

[Rick Potter]

As Ted mentioned above, I built drawers into a beefed up ladder base in my kitchen. My wife wanted every inch of space she could get.

I ended up installing eight toe kick drawers, but simply made them slide into the framework of the ladder base...no guides. The oak baseboard is attached to the drawer front, and is cut at a 45 degree angle, and this automatically corrects the small amount of side to side when you push the drawer in. My kitchen floor was installed before I built the cabinets, so I simply made flat bottom drawers with felt cushions on the bottom, and they slide in and out just fine.

She has these drawers loaded with pizza stones, cookie sheets, folding wire racks, etc. With a minimalist dark handle on them, they are not even noticed.

She loves them.

[Frank Pratt]

Dave, see my post #15. The leveler leg failed. Yes we set the countertop down hard, but impacts on cabinets can happen when the homeowner takes possession to. I don't want the liability if someone gets hurt because something happens in the future. It wouldn't matter what they were doing to cause the failure, the fact that it did would come back on my company. I have no qualms using them on base cabinets, just no islands for me.

That's a good point about islands, where there's not wall to take the sheer load. Leveling legs are only good for compression.