I’m so confused!

[Bob Hardin]

I’ve been trying my hand at cabinet making; not for profit. Just for our house. I’ve only recently gotten into woodworking.

I was going to buy a nice router table setup with a good fence (leaning towards the Jessem because Incra has a 4 month wait). But when getting the table, fence, router, hold-downs the price came in at around $2200. WHOA!

So, I then started looking at a 3hp Grizzly shaper with power feed (PM brand). It came in around $2000. I know the bits are considerably more, but I don’t need many; at least right now. Just maybe a rail/stile to start with.

I am suffering from analysis paralysis big time! I have room in my shop. I have the 220 available. Why not get the shaper? I’m really just learning to woodwork; retired (I was “tired” already).

Thoughts and considerations?
bob

[Stan Calow]

So, you're a hobbyist, just starting out? What exactly are you planning to make? I can't imagine needing a shaper unless you're doing a lot of production work. A home hobbyist will likely need at least one router anyway, and a router table makes things efficient. Just my opinion.

[Mark Gibney]

I agree with Stan. I think you'll get more use from a router table than a shaper.
As an aside, I don't see cabinets made these days with the "French country kitchen" look where the rails and stiles are shaped. It's almost all either flat panels or "Shaker" style doors.

[Matt Day]

$2000+ for a beginner sounds crazy for this job. I’d buy a 3hp router and a router plate and make your own router table. Can be super simple like a hole in a piece of sheet goods, built into your table saw extension wing, or a stand alone router table.

Yes, pros making cabinets all day use big shakers and power feeds, but I don’t think you need that setup for a set of cabinets you’ll make once. And being a beginner, likely that money could be spent better elsewhere.

And don’t forget to look on the used market.

[Bob Hardin]

I’ve looked, but used pickings are slim right now. I will be making Shaker style cabinets. The reason, I think, for the high router combo price is because I really want a lift. I believe in the “buy once, cry once” approach.

I have zero interest in production work.

[Mike Kreinhop]

If you're just now getting started, will you be needing a router table or shaper in the next four months? For what it's worth based on my experience, the lead times quoted by Incra are a bit pessimistic. Every item I've purchased from Incremental Tools arrived well ahead of the estimated shipping dates. I ordered the LS25 positioner on 28 May, with a 15-18 week shipping date. This would put the earliest shipping date at about mid-September with me receiving it towards the end of September. It arrived two weeks ago.

I have the Incra LS17 Super System in a cabinet I made for my small shop. If I had a larger shop, I would have bought the LS25 Super System and considered a larger fixed cabinet instead of a mobile cabinet that fits easily through the shop door. If I had taken my time and thought about what I wanted, I would have bought the LS17 "The Works" instead of buying components over a couple of months and eventually wound up with "The Works" (https://www.incrementaltools.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RTCOMBO-3-TW) for a $200 savings.

At no time did I ever consider buying a shaper, even though great used SCM and Felder shapers are available in my area for about the same cost of a new Grizzly shaper. Even though I am limited in the availability of router motors that will fit in the lift and work on European power, I am confident that the 2.4HP router I have will meet all of my home project requirements.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/Router-Table/i-sZ6CHC2/0/a8f92a6f/XL/Router_Table-12-XL.jpg

[Andy D Jones]

What kind of table saw do you have? If it has a 27" deep (front to back) cast iron table, there are several different cast iron router table extension wings available at reasonable cost.

I purchased the Bench Dog extension from Rockler, and Incra's version of the Jessem Mast-R-Lift-II-R that fits Rockler router table openings. The table is in stock at $350, and the lift is in stock at $400. The Bench Dog extension comes with a good fence. Note the Incra version of the Mast-R-Lift-II has steel throat plates that are held in place magnetically, and can be removed/replaced without tools. The Jessem version uses plastic throat plates that require the included custom pin spanner wrench to remove/replace. There is even a guide-bushing-compatible throat plate for the Incra version. Both brands of this lift grip a wide variety of router motors without additional, extra-$ adapters.

If this will be your first and only router for a while, I would suggest a 2.25 HP router, rather than a 3HP one, since the former is much easier to also use out of the table, hand-held. If you can only afford a router with one base, get a plunge router (that is compatible with the lift). But a fixed base router is much easier to control for non-plunging jobs.

I have the Milwaukee 5616-24 kit with 2.25 HP variable speed router, fixed and plunge bases, and a carrying case. It is in stock at Home Depot for $275.

This setup works very well for me, in my shop. I don't have room for a separate router table.

So, with the above, you have a cast iron router table, an excellent lift and router with two bases for $1025.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Bill Dufour]

I would recommend a 1.5hp shaper with both 1/2 and 3/4 spindles . Buy a router collet spindle for it as well. You need dust collection for a shaper as it really spits out gallons of chips.
Location? not much to go wrong with a sharper except bearings and belt. A new grizzly 1.5 hp shaper is 750$. I do not really think powerfeed is needed for you right now.
Bill D.

[Jared Sankovich]

The shaper is night and day better with more capacity and capabilities. Its no contest really.

Shapers are generally hard to kill so if you consider a used machine they are cheaper than the equivalent router table.

Pick up a small 68 to 78mm eurobock cutter head for about $120 and ypu have access to about 150 profile knives that are about $14 each. The cut quality will far surpass any router and cost less.

[Cary Falk]

I got by for years with a 3hp plunge router, a cheap phenolic router plate, and a home made table and fence. A router table setup is not worth $2200 to me. I had the Grizzly 3hp shaper and the fence is a little bit frustrating setting it up. I have several Grizzly tools and am happy with them so I am not Grizzly bashing. I ended up spending about 2.5x the cost of the Grizzly to get something I liked. I also have only $300 in my feeder. Since Getting a shaper I haven't used my router table. I run router bits on the shaper which some frown upon. The shaper is the only tool in the shop that makes me pucker when I turn it on. The better shapers have better safety also.

[Derek Cohen]

When starting out, one does not need more than a 2 h.p. variable speed router with 1/2” collet, and an inset plate (and even this one can get away without by drilling the bit hole in a mdf panel).

There are so many builds on YouTube for tables and fences. A fence can be no more than a straight L-section of Ply.

The extras are these:

The Muscle Chuck adds above-table access.
The Router Raizer adds above-table adjustment.
A switch for the side of the table ends having to dive under the table to switch on/off.
Build a better fence with dust control.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bob, once it dawned on me what a precise lift can do, I also "really wanted a lift," so this year I finally put one in. But I managed to get a lot of table routing done for two decades without one. I was using a Porter Cable 690, which has a rather clunky height adjustment, but I understand that many fixed-base routers are more finely and easily adjustable than mine. (Some here would say that 1-3/4 HP is undersized, and they would have a point, but I guess I just made do with careful feed rates and tiny initial cuts. Plus, my 690 is variable speed –– no longer available.)

I second the vote for building your own table or an extension on your table saw –– that's what I have always had. It doesn't need to be cast iron. My original one was 3/4" MDF on a well-jointed 1x3 pine box frame, bolted in and covered with Formica laminate from Home Depot (back when they kept it in the store and you could quickly find a broken piece they'd sell for a song; now you need to go to a cabinet maker near you to find a cutoff for maybe $25).

If by chance you have a Unisaw, my original extension table is still propped up in my shop. It's free to a good home if we can figure out shipping from California.

All of this is easy for me to say. My router lift is accurate to 0.001" and I love it.

Good luck to you! Don't spend $2,000. Even with a Mast-R-Lift II you should be able to come in for half that for the lift (watch the sales), router (same), and table materials. Now about that dust collection...

[Frederick Skelly]

Bob,
I'll argue that you do not need a shaper, nor do you need a $2200 router table. Go buy a router for $300. Build your own router table and fence - there are plans available in several places.

You do not need a Taj Mahal to do good work with a router. I made my table base/stand from 2x4s, the table top from a piece of plywood that I recycled and painted, and the fence from some (new) baltic birch plywood. I might have as much as $100 in my table, total. My Milwaukee router cost $250 at the BORG.

Woodworking does not have to be ungodly expensive.

Best of luck.
Fred

[Mark Bolton]

Bob,
I'll argue that you do not need a shaper, nor do you need a $2200 router table. Go buy a router for $300. Build your own router table and fence - there are plans available in several places.

You do not need a Taj Mahal to do good work with a router. I made my table base/stand from 2x4s, the table top from a piece of plywood that I recycled and painted, and the fence from some (new) baltic birch plywood. I might have as much as $100 in my table, total. My Milwaukee router cost $250 at the BORG.

Woodworking does not have to be ungodly expensive.

Best of luck.
Fred

Im with this. I would not be without shapers but honestly at the small, hobby, starting out level, the router table is far better suited. No shaper that doesnt have a super high speed spindle will ever run average router bits well and if you ever attempt to put a small one in your wasting your time and material even at 10K rpms. Router collets for shapers are pretty much a shear waste of money and nine times out of ten rarely ever get used. The cost of tooling and the rabbit hole of a shaper is just not well suited.

OP will want to run 1/4" straight cutters for slotting/grooving, small beading bits, round overs, and so on. Tooling that can be had at the home center for 15-20 bucks a pop. You'll never run a single piece of that tooling in shaper.

Build a nice table top to start, set it on a pair of sawhorses if needed. Use a straight piece of material and a couple clamps for a fence for a while. The router, the material for the top and clamps will be spendy enough. If you keep going buy a lift, build a better table, invest in a better fence.

2K for either starting out is a joke and its not even all you will have to spend.

[Alex Zeller]

You will need a router. A router table can be useful but I don't think I would invest a lot of money into one until you have time woodworking and are sure you want one. I needed one in a hurry and didn't have a cabinet saw with a fence that was long enough that I could mount one in. So I bought a moderately priced one without a lift. When I upgraded the cabinet saw I moved the router to it and the router table has sat in the garage for the last couple years. There's some things that my shaper just can't do but for the most part if given a choice I will use a shaper over the router. It's much quieter and while the cutters cost more they last longer. Often you can find them used for under $1000 in Craig's list. In time you will want bits for the router for occasional use or for just one project that you just will not want to make the investment on a shaper cutter. That being said Grizzy has lots of 3/4" shaper cutters that don't cost an arm and a leg.

A power feeder isn't required for a shaper but I would highly recommend one. But I have my table saw, shaper, and jointer all set up to use the power feeder. When you learn how to use the power feeder it makes processing wood much easier. For example when using a jointer for flattening a board you want to put pressure on the board on the outfeed table near the cutter. When doing it by hand you're going to be moving your hands back and forth as you move the board. With a power feed it'll apply an even amount of steady pressure.

[Jim Dwight]

I made one entire kitchen with a router including a router table - home made. A shaper will allow single cut raised panels and has many other benefits but they are not necessary for a hobby shop. My current router table had a home made screw adjustable lift and the top raises for bit changes. The top is a sink cutout backed by plywood and edged with maple. I do not use a router insert either. The motor in my router table is a Porter Cable 7528. It has a lot of power, at least for a router. I have also used one of my PC 690s to make raised panel doors. I had to do the panel raising in 3 or 4 cuts but it cut the cope and stick in one pass.

I had a router table capability in the extension table of my last table saw but I did not like that because it seemed like I needed the table saw when the router table was set up or vice versa. If I was more organized it would have undoubtedly worked better.

The normal router advice is very sound in my opinion. Buy a mid sized router set with a fixed base and a plunge base. It is probably best to go to a local retailer and handle them to see what you like. All the major brands have these sets, Bosch, DeWalt, Porter Cable etc.. The Bosch seems to get the best reviews but I like my Porter Cables just fine and others love their DeWalts. I noticed several of the plunge bases now have dust collection hook ups which my old PC690 lacks (I think the current 890s have it). Mid sized routers will work fine in a router table and with two bases you have the option to mount the fixed base to the router table and then just move the router between bases as needed. The advantage of the mid sized is it works well for both hand held and for router table use. I like my little Bosch Colt for light duty and my big PC 7528 for the router table but I could do what these routers do with the 690s. They are heavier than the Colt and less powerful than the 7528 but they are better all around routers.

[Bill Dufour]

What size and quality of wood do you have access to in your country? I paid $200 for my used grizzly 1.5 hp shaper with a 1/2, 3/4 and 1/4 router collet spindles. If all you can buy is short smaller wood a router may make more sense.
Bil lD

[Ron Citerone]

I would look for a cheap craigslist router table to start. If you upgrade you can probably sell it for what you pay. My 2 cents.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I’ve been trying my hand at cabinet making; not for profit. Just for our house. I’ve only recently gotten into woodworking.

I was going to buy a nice router table setup with a good fence (leaning towards the Jessem because Incra has a 4 month wait). But when getting the table, fence, router, hold-downs the price came in at around $2200. WHOA!

So, I then started looking at a 3hp Grizzly shaper with power feed (PM brand). It came in around $2000. I know the bits are considerably more, but I don’t need many; at least right now. Just maybe a rail/stile to start with.

I am suffering from analysis paralysis big time! I have room in my shop. I have the 220 available. Why not get the shaper? I’m really just learning to woodwork; retired (I was “tired” already).

Thoughts and considerations?
bob

If you want to try your hand at cabinet making, then make your own router table. You will use most of the skills you will need in cabinet making. The Milwaulke router has a feature that allows for height adjustment above the table. "Router Razor" works with most plunge routers, and isn't overly expensive. Look for a thread "A Few Shop Made Tools" that features a triple router table for door making (rails, stiles, and raised panels.) Once you have set the height for rail and stile bits, you won't be adjusting them till you change to a different thickness of stock. Using a router, you will need to raise bit to cut panels, or have an adjustable fence

[mike stenson]

Yes. It's not terribly difficult to make a really nice router table, with an excellent fence (FWW #144, I think has the entire article on Pat Warners micro adjustable router table fence edit: Yes, I just went and pulled it out and confirmed it Oct 2000).

[Prashun Patel]

I was in the same boat as you a few years back and opted for a router table. A router has been a versatile option for me. Allows you to take the tool to the wood when you need to.

I am glad I bought - not built my table. I own the incra fence and it’s amazing. Especially for cabinet doors that require some jointing.

People generally recommend that you can build a better one than you can buy, but few of them have used the incra fence system.

[Bob Hardin]

What kind of table saw do you have? If it has a 27" deep (front to back) cast iron table, there are several different cast iron router table extension wings available at reasonable cost.

I purchased the Bench Dog extension from Rockler, and Incra's version of the Jessem Mast-R-Lift-II-R that fits Rockler router table openings. The table is in stock at $350, and the lift is in stock at $400. The Bench Dog extension comes with a good fence. Note the Incra version of the Mast-R-Lift-II has steel throat plates that are held in place magnetically, and can be removed/replaced without tools. The Jessem version uses plastic throat plates that require the included custom pin spanner wrench to remove/replace. There is even a guide-bushing-compatible throat plate for the Incra version. Both brands of this lift grip a wide variety of router motors without additional, extra-$ adapters.

If this will be your first and only router for a while, I would suggest a 2.25 HP router, rather than a 3HP one, since the former is much easier to also use out of the table, hand-held. If you can only afford a router with one base, get a plunge router (that is compatible with the lift). But a fixed base router is much easier to control for non-plunging jobs.

I have the Milwaukee 5616-24 kit with 2.25 HP variable speed router, fixed and plunge bases, and a carrying case. It is in stock at Home Depot for $275.

This setup works very well for me, in my shop. I don't have room for a separate router table.

So, with the above, you have a cast iron router table, an excellent lift and router with two bases for $1025.

-- Andy - Arlington TX
I have a hammer k4 sliding table saw. Not sure if I can attach a router extension.

[Bob Hardin]

Thx for all the great input. I know you are all passionate about your opinions; that’s why I posted. I love the common sense passion. I really wanted the incra system but can’t wait up to 4 months for it. I will look into plans for building my own table. Still need to invest in the fence, lift etc.

[Richard Coers]

Spending $2,200 for a router table and fence system is crazy. You will be doing woodwork, right? Make your own system. I worked at least 35 years before buying an Incra fence. I've always made my own table and leg or cabinet system to support it. I make my own router insert from scrap polycarbonate. Rail and style shaper set from Freud is around $250, router bit set $130. Personally I don't mind saving $120 to do a job.

[Jared Sankovich]

I still dont understand the general dislike for shapers in the home shop / hobby demographic.

IMHO Buy the biggest shaper you can fit in you shop (or can power) Ive never heard anyone wish for a smaller shaper.

[Jim Matthews]

I am suffering from analysis paralysis big time! I have room in my shop. I have the 220 available. Why not get the shaper? I’m really just learning to woodwork; retired (I was “tired” already).

Thoughts and considerations?
bob

Search the Neanderthal Haven forum.

I did a similar calculus when starting out.

Using "The New Yankee workshop" inventory as a template, my first side table would have cost $250 in materials, $13,000 in equipment.

Before investing in power tools, consider a training course in basic handling. It will be obvious after a week which tools you enjoy using.

That tingly sensation in your scalp is your latent Super Power : " Common sense".

[Jim Becker]

I'm late to comment, but a decent router, especially one with "native" above table height adjustment, is the start of a solution that lets you tackle your project now and have a lot more time to figure out what your "ultimate" needs are for your shop. You absolutely can mill stock using a piece of plywood with a hole in it and a clamped on board for a fence. It's not pretty, but it works. The happy medium is to simply build a little nicer table setup and leave the fancy fence setup for a future acquisition. And honestly, I've been happy with a simple fence for two decades now. I've never felt the need for fancy for that part, especially since I always run test pieces anyway. Above table height adjustment, however. I'm all in.

[Dave Sabo]

I still dont understand the general dislike for shapers in the home shop / hobby demographic.

IMHO Buy the biggest shaper you can fit in you shop (or can power) Ive never heard anyone wish for a smaller shaper.

Because tooling is more expensive and less readily available. They are also less versatile for home DIYer and hobbyist. I think another reason is a router table/ cabinet is a badge of honor for the woodworker. When’s the lasT time you saw someone show their homemade tricked out shaper on here ?

Sure the bigger torque potential of a shaper is better than the biggest router/table , but most hobbyists aren’t making raised panels very often or at all.

If your in to fancy fences like INCRA , etc... the domestic shaper isn’t going to excite you either.

[Andy D Jones]

I have a hammer k4 sliding table saw. Not sure if I can attach a router extension.

Well, then a nice Hammer F3 shaper would match your slider!

Or you may need a separate router table.

As others have said, you can make your own wooden top (and functional fence).

A fence can be pretty simple to start with (a board and a couple of clamps, as already mentioned.) But ease of adjustment and dust collection provisions are nice to have (and can also be home-made, with more effort and ingenuity).

Working in your favor with a router table, there is no need (or possibility) to ensure the fence is "parallel" to the circular router bit. If you use a miter gauge, that would make it important to keep the fence parallel to the miter slots, but otherwise it does not matter. This is why many users use a sled/guide that rides on/along the router table fence, instead of a miter gauge.

One minor nit with routers that have "above the table" depth adjustment capability: most do not have a convenient (if any) means to lock the depth adjustment. I've heard they can move due to vibration during use, but I have no experience with relying upon one in a table. I'd rather use a good lift.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[ChrisA Edwards]

Well, then a nice Hammer F3 shaper would match your slider!

Or you may need a separate router table.


I have a Hammer F3 Shaper and it's great, but I still go to my router table most of the time.

I made my first router table out of a sheet of 3/4" MDF, layered to form a 1.5" top and then stuck laminate on it. You can buy router plate inserts pretty cheap and then I used an Incra Fence, which is now hanging on the wall gathering dust (i.e. it's for sale).

I had this for about 8 years and when I got for seriously into hobby woodworking, I bought the Woodpeckers router table complete ($1300). Well I soon realized the stand was bit of a waste of space and so build myself a simple cabinet.

Later I added an Incra Fence to my Sawstop and in the process, put a router table on the right end of my table saw.

I have the Woodpeckers and Jessum Mast Lift II lifts. Of the two, I prefer the Jessum, but both do what they are advertised to do.

I wouldn't be without a router table. I could easily live without the Shaper.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Might be fun to build a router table. Good first project.

[Wayne Cannon]

Bob, I'm not a professional and have never used a shaper; however, I have made extensive use of two router tables. You don't need to spend a lot of money. I have a nice Incra "Precision" fence, but frankly, it spends most of its time sitting on the floor. It, and similar fences, are very good at parallel operations, but that's a fairly rare for me.

My favorite after all these years is the Sommerfeld fence (https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles/tool-reviews-aa/826053-a-review-of-the-sommerfeld-router-table-and-fence), because its pivoting fence is so quick and easy to adjust, has great dust collection, and nice beveled zero-clearance inserts. It pivots at one end, so pivoting the fence gives you fine adjustments of 1/2 the movement of the end of the fence. Sommerfeld's router table and fence combo is a bit pricey at $550, but you can get just the fence. A pivot hole and a couple of strips of slot-rail are all it needs. A pivoting fence could easily be incorporated into many of the simpler fences (Sommerfeld even sells their spring-loaded locking pin). There are other pivoting fences; Sommerfeld's just had everything I wanted.

[Bob Hardin]

Bob, I'm not a professional and have never used a shaper; however, I have made extensive use of two router tables. You don't need to spend a lot of money. I have a nice Incra "Precision" fence, but frankly, it spends most of its time sitting on the floor. It, and similar fences, are very good at parallel operations, but that's a fairly rare for me.

My favorite after all these years is the Sommerfeld fence (https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles/tool-reviews-aa/826053-a-review-of-the-sommerfeld-router-table-and-fence), because its pivoting fence is so quick and easy to adjust, has great dust collection, and nice beveled zero-clearance inserts. It pivots at one end, so pivoting the fence gives you fine adjustments of 1/2 the movement of the end of the fence. Sommerfeld's router table and fence combo is a bit pricey at $550, but you can get just the fence. A pivot hole and a couple of strips of slot-rail are all it needs. A pivoting fence could easily be incorporated into many of the simpler fences (Sommerfeld even sells their spring-loaded locking pin). There are other pivoting fences; Sommerfeld's just had everything I wanted.
Thank you way e. I’ll definitely take a look

[Wayne Cannon]

FWIW, Sommerfeld's aluminum extrusion router table top is not compatible with typical router plates or lifts. I have a Triton router in the table which has a nice fine screw-type adjustment, but other than that, it's kind of a pain compared with my homebrew router table, big P-C router, and router lift. I just like the Sommerfeld pivoting-style fence.

[Jared Sankovich]

You can do a lot with a router/ plate and some clamps..
439921
439922

But I'd still go with a shaper (a matching hammer to your slider would work well) but so would lots of other shapers

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I made my own router table based on Norms version II router table. Even with a Woodpecker lift, a new 3 1/4 HP router and all materials I don't have $2200 into it. I'd make my own router table just to get the experience.

[Derek Cohen]

There are a couple of tools that every serious hobbiest should build. The two most popular items are a work bench, especially important for a hand tool woodworker, and a router table. Both these items can escalate in complexity, but work perfectly well in their basic form.

My first router table was a slab of MDF with a hole drilled in it. A straight wooden board was clamped to the top as a fence. It worked as well as the fanciest table today. What the money is buying one is convenience, and not precision. Precision is user-made.

I am presently building a new router table ... just because ... which is a luxury as I do not use one much :)

The top comes from a discarded laminated 30mm thick high pressure MDF bench top (from a local kitchen builder).
The existing aluminium insert plate is being re-used.
A fantastic fence can be made from 8020 aluminium extrusion (eBay). About $25.
The router lift is a Router Raizer. I have used one for years and it is fantastic ... for 1/10th the price of a typical router lift.
The router is an old Elu 2 1/4 hp with variable speed and soft start. These are build like a tank, and available cheaply (UK eBay). They go on and on. (I love Elu and have 4 of them, some I purchased 25 years ago).

By the end of the build, I would estimate that I will have about $500 all up for something that is sold for about $2500. It can be done for much less.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Matthews]

439922



As someone (still) in the planning stages of a kitchen remodel - nice layout, expert execution.

Getting one cabinet "just right " is manageable.
Getting consistent results on more than a dozen doors was one of Hercules' labors.

Kudos

[Allen Mattsen]

If you're just now getting started, will you be needing a router table or shaper in the next four months? For what it's worth based on my experience, the lead times quoted by Incra are a bit pessimistic. Every item I've purchased from Incremental Tools arrived well ahead of the estimated shipping dates. I ordered the LS25 positioner on 28 May, with a 15-18 week shipping date. This would put the earliest shipping date at about mid-September with me receiving it towards the end of September. It arrived two weeks ago.

I have the Incra LS17 Super System in a cabinet I made for my small shop. If I had a larger shop, I would have bought the LS25 Super System and considered a larger fixed cabinet instead of a mobile cabinet that fits easily through the shop door. If I had taken my time and thought about what I wanted, I would have bought the LS17 "The Works" instead of buying components over a couple of months and eventually wound up with "The Works" (https://www.incrementaltools.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RTCOMBO-3-TW) for a $200 savings.

At no time did I ever consider buying a shaper, even though great used SCM and Felder shapers are available in my area for about the same cost of a new Grizzly shaper. Even though I am limited in the availability of router motors that will fit in the lift and work on European power, I am confident that the 2.4HP router I have will meet all of my home project requirements.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/Router-Table/i-sZ6CHC2/0/a8f92a6f/XL/Router_Table-12-XL.jpg

Is this the 36" or 43" table top?

I'm buying parts of a similar setup in stages and centering around the LS17 (eventually). Just curious is the 36" router table top from Incra is a good fit for the LS17 or is there any reason to get the 43" version instead if I'm not intending to later upgrade to the larger LS25. I'm starting with a Triton TRA001, magnalock plate, and Incra table top given the gigantic wait times for the LS positioners and my need for a router table sooner. I can't decide between the 36 or 43"! I wish I could just order the works and be done with it, but a 16-20 week wait time has me choosing to build it slow and in (available) parts. Thanks in advance.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Is this the 36" or 43" table top?

I'm buying parts of a similar setup in stages and centering around the LS17 (eventually). Just curious is the 36" router table top from Incra is a good fit for the LS17 or is there any reason to get the 43" version instead if I'm not intending to later upgrade to the larger LS25. I'm starting with a Triton TRA001, magnalock plate, and Incra table top given the gigantic wait times for the LS positioners and my need for a router table sooner. I can't decide between the 36 or 43"! I wish I could just order the works and be done with it, but a 16-20 week wait time has me choosing to build it slow and in (available) parts. Thanks in advance.

This is the 24x36-inch top with the 17-inch LS Super System. When I bought the components for the router table, my shop was constrained to 4.5x5 meters, and all tools had to remain in the shop, even when not being used. I had to choose my designs carefully so I could store the router table, bandsaw, jointer/planer, and still have circulation space. Since then, the conditions have changed, and I have another 5x5 meter space adjacent to the shop that can be used as an assembly area and to store tools not being used. Had this been the case when I bought the components, I would have bought the 27x43-inch top and the 25-inch LS Super System, as this would still fit through the door between the two shop areas.

The 36-inch table is great for the LS17. I think the 43-inch table will be too large for the LS17 and there will be unused space behind the LS sub-base. There is no problem with the sub-base hanging over the edge of the table, and it is pre-drilled for the sub-base with the intent that it will hang over.

I've ordered a LOT of items from Incra and the actual lead time was never as long as they claim on their website. When I ordered the LS25 positioner this year for my table saw, the estimated lead time was 15-18 weeks. It shipped ten weeks after I ordered it and I had it a week later.

During my long and expensive path to this table, I was going to use the TRA001 router. I ordered the table with the MagnaLOCK router plate, which is part number MLP7518-AL. The TRA001 fits perfectly on this plate and includes the hole for the winder to set the cutter height.

[Tom Bender]

Contrarian / realist here, you should not build kitchen cabinets as a starter project. They are kinda permanent and on display, and they will look like the first cabinets you ever built. And they will cost more than factory cabinets, not even including tooling costs. Also you probably want to start and finish your kitchen project all in less than a year. Buy the cabinets and take on as much of the rest of the project as you are confident with. Then build a dining table.

[Prashun Patel]

Such fantastic advice, Tom. Totally agree.

[Rod Sheridan]

I use the shaper in a hobby shop, no router or router table.

I’ve never missed not having a router, as others have said a Euroblock head with knives and limiters is the way to go, followed by a rebate head and an adjustable groover....Rod

[Brian Runau]

I built a router base from Norm's plans and added the kreg top, lift, and precision https://www.kregtool.com/shop/routing/ fence. They sell and angle iron base for it.

[Curt Putnam]

You do not indicate your location so I will suggest that you look for used gear. For example, I have a router table, plate and fence that I am going to sell for $100 or so. Craigslist can be your friend

[Rick Potter]

For what it's worth, I built my first kitchen with a bench top router table running a PC690 router. Oak, raised panel doors, and it has been in use for 25 years at what is now my daughters house, and looks like new.

It can be done, and was not really a handicap, although I must say I now have all the bells and whistles, and they are nice to have.