Poll: Jointer Cutter Head: Straight Blades or Helical Segmented ?

[Steven Woodward]

What type of cutter head do you prefer in a jointer ?

When voting, consider including the following to help other readers:
- reasons for my preference
- model of jointer
- head manufacturer if known (example Byrd Shelix)
- is preference based on personal experience or is it based on research

[Mike Henderson]

I have a helical cutter head and like it. It's nice to be able to replace - or just turn - a cutter if you hit something.

The head came with the jointer - and I purchased the jointer used - so I don't know who made it.

Mike

[Andrew Hughes]

Straight knifes for me I use t1 and m2. I had a nice set of opti steel with a black nitride coating but they got short and warped. Sharp beats carbide for the woods i face on my jointer.

[Phillip Gregory]

I prefer either of the carbide options but I would probably give a small edge to the straight carbide knives. Carbide is definitely preferable to HSS as it lasts so much longer it's not even funny. My jointer is Grizzly's DJ20 clone with the factory installed helical segmented head as that's what they had in stock, the straight-knifed version was backordered for months. The only difference between the segmented and the straight knife machines I have used that I can discern is that the segmented cutter is a lot quieter. Surface finish is no different that I can tell. However, changing straight knives is a lot easier and quicker than changing inserts. You only have to change 3-4 straight knives which is an easy task, particularly with an elevation-setting jig. It takes a lot more time to rotate or replace segmented carbide cutters. My jointer has about 40 inserts so it's 40 cutters that need to be changed, not 3 or 4. Also, straight carbide knives are generally a commodity item with standardized sizes while carbide inserts are often specific to that manufacturer/head and pricey as a result.

[Harold Patterson]

Helical on my Hammer a3-31. The small chips really help with dust collection.

[Jim Becker]

Tersa on my SCM/Minimax J/P combo...and I'm extremely pleased. If I had North American traditional "separate" machines, I'd have straight knives on a jointer most likely and something spiralish on a thicknesser. I like Tersa because I can replace them in about three minutes or even move one just a hair if there's a nick and they are also reversible.

[Warren Lake]

ive asked this before with no answer for those running Tersa how straight are they. I can set up high speed steel to .0005 with no issues. If something is off just tap under slight tight and you have adjusted. If I run the dial across the machine outside and middle it is accurate. Time to put the straight edge again at 90 degrees to the table just to check the flatness.

Jointer tables on older machines have wear on the lead in edge of the infeed, its just the weight of the board and many passes.

If you have a martin or a decent SCM or other and run a dial from side to side parrallel to the knife tip and take measures across what type of tolerances do you see. We know it changes as the knives are used as the tips are wearing, if you are using one area of the infeed over time it will be a bit lower both on infeed leading edge and also across the table from side to side.

[Patrick Kane]

Warren, I will measure my machine in the next couple days. Off the top of my head, I remember the Tersa knives being very very straight. Previously, I remember my 12” straight knife machine having knives with .003-.005” dips/bows. Most sharpeners only guarantee that over 12”. That’s the problem with straight knives, you are dependent on the precision of your sharpener.

At the end of the day, does .005” here or there matter? Probably not too much, but insert heads will be be almost perfect.

[Matt Day]

What does this have to do with the RC-33 type planers?

[Jim Becker]

ive asked this before with no answer for those running Tersa how straight are they.

If the contoured slots in the cutter head are milled straight, the Tersa knives are going to follow suit when you slip them into those slots from the side. I don't think any minor variations are going to have an impact.

[Josko Catipovic]

HSS in my Delta 37-315, but I'm tired of adjusting and readjusting blades, and the bolts are getting pretty rounded, too. I've been thinking the next spare $500 goes to a Byrd head, but somehow it never materializes.

[Alan Lightstone]

Helical in my Felder A941. I also had helical in my Laguna jointer/planer.

Highly recommended, especially when it comes time to rotate the blades.

[Thomas Wilson]

I now have a Powermatic 6 inch with helical head. It replaced a 40 year old Sears Craftman 6 inch jointer. I sharpened the Sears knives on a Makita 9820 wet sharpener. I used the Sears height measuring tool to adjust. The results were good but it was time consuming. The Powermatic is just a better tool. It is not just the head. The tables are about twice as long. The helical head gives a smoother surface. The main difference is the rippled surface from the straight knives versus lightly scalloped surface from the helical. You have to have good eyes and perfect lighting the see the scallops.

I bought the Powermatic about 6 years ago and chose the helical head based on reviews. I had never seen a demonstration or used a helical head before I bought it. I bought a Powermatic 15 inch planer with helical head at the same time. I have been happy with both.

[glenn bradley]

Where did my post go? I was the first to respond and I don't see it. Is it possible I walked away without hitting "Post"??? Nah . . . ;-) Here is about what I wrote:

When voting, consider including the following to help other readers:
- reasons for my preference
Cost savings over time.
Better results (less waste) on figured woods.
- model of jointer
Grizzly G0453Z and G0490X
- head manufacturer if known (example Byrd Shelix)
Grizzly's German manufacturer at the time.
- is preference based on personal experience or is it based on research
I had lost too much time and material to tearout and spent too much money on re-sharpenings/replacements to try to avoid this tearout. Knives are great for a lot of things when fresh. HSS starts sharper than carbide but, rapidly loses this initial advantage and wears very quickly in comparison. My segmented heads have paid for themselves at least twice in a very few years and give better results in tearout prone material. This makes them a good fit for me. YMMV.

[Andrew Hughes]

Glen there is two of these poll threads.
Yours is still on the other one.:)

[Orlando Gonzalez]

Byrd head on my PM 50

[Cary Falk]

I have a Bird in my ShopFox 1781 8" jointer. Less noise, no setting of knives, I haven't rotated the inserts once yet and I have had the jointer for probably 8 years. I don't have any knicks in the inserts. I put a knick in the knives the first day when I had steel knives.

[Matt Day]

I have a Bird in my ShopFox 1781 8" jointer.

Wow, that thing must hate it in there and make a lot of noise when you run a board over it.

[Alex Zeller]

I was all set to buy a powermatic straight blade jointer new the next time they had a sale when an almost new used one with the helical head showed up on facebook with a mobile base for hundreds less than what the new one would cost. I like that I don't have to set knives and the inserts seam to last for ever (they never have been rotated on the jointer I bought and still have plenty of life in them) but if given a choice of saving $500 and dealing with HSS blades I would have saved the money.

[Ray Newman]

In 2002, I purchased a JET 8" jointer. A short time after I installed the Tersa HSS blades and satisfied with the cut results and ease of blade change.

If I was starting over, I would seriously look a Bryd/Shelix cuter head.

[Andy D Jones]

Hammer A3-41 16" combo jointer/planer with helical carbide head.

The only thing I have to compare it with is my old Ryobi AP-10 10" planer, and an ancient Craftsman cast iron 4" dovetail-wayed jointer, neither of which is even close, though both did a decent job for me (and the jointer for my grandfather before me), within their limitations (power and capacity), and except on difficult grain.

I haven't yet had a chance to try out the A3-41 on any difficult grain, and while I expect it will do a better job, I'm not expecting any miracles.

Apart from the capacity, I'd much rather rotate/change inserts than fiddle with aligning straight blades.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Derek Cohen]

Hammer A3-31 helix segmented carbide inserts

You really do not want to be sharing straight blades frequently, as I would owing the the local abrasive hard woods.

Very fine performance and probably the most inexpensive option over time..

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert London]

I would never get anything less than a spiral/helical cutter on a new jointer. Especially a planer. It’s a superior cut, far less noise, runs smoother, and it’s actually cheaper in the long run.

Some are just old school and like straight knives, though. If you keep them sharp, join reclaimed or old wood for fear of nails or other objects, straight knives can have some merit. The larger you go, the noisier knives get.

I would consider a used jointer that had Tersa as there is no setting and replaced in minutes. The carbide tersa blades can get very expensive though. Some manufacturers aren’t even making new equipment with straight knives anymore, so there is a reason because what people are buying.

[glenn bradley]

Glen there is two of these poll threads.
Yours is still on the other one.:)


Doh!!!

10 characters

[Mike Kees]

Not sure why anyone wants a segmented head on a jointer,this is a machine that gives you a flat face and square edge to work from. If I spent money on a helical head it would go in my planer where closer to finish surfaces are produced in my shop.

[Andy D Jones]

Not sure why anyone wants a segmented head on a jointer,this is a machine that gives you a flat face and square edge to work from. If I spent money on a helical head it would go in my planer where closer to finish surfaces are produced in my shop.

Except when your jointer and planer are the same machine, with the same cutter head...

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Cary Falk]

Not sure why anyone wants a segmented head on a jointer,this is a machine that gives you a flat face and square edge to work from. If I spent money on a helical head it would go in my planer where closer to finish surfaces are produced in my shop.

The reasons have been stated throughout this thread(and many others) by different people. Did you not read the thread? Sometimes I need the jointed surface(especially highly figured wood) to be as close to the finished surface as possible.

[Mike Kees]

The reasons have been stated throughout this thread(and many others) by different people. Did you not read the thread? Sometimes I need the jointed surface(especially highly figured wood) to be as close to the finished surface as possible.
Yeah Cary I read the the thread. I have a 16'' jointer with T1 HSS steel knives and a 100mm diameter cutterhead it works very well as is. Would it work better with a helical cutterhead ? Maybe,but I am not going to drop more money than I paid for my jointer to find out. Like I said before for me and the work I do ,I would consider changing the head in my planer long before I would do my jointer. I plane both sides of wood that has first been flattened on my jointer,so see no need to have a helical head on my jointer. YMMV.

[Ben Helmich]

Inserts if you can swing it financially. I hate installing and adjusting knives.

[Will Boulware]

I'm a straight knives fan.

Crescent 24" jointer, babbitt bearings, belt drive
4 knife Crescent cutterhead

I use it because I've got it, but the stock cutterhead leaves such a good finish on everything that I wouldn't consider changing it out. Knives last a LONG time because you can spread the work out over the width of the tables, and after you change them once and figure it out, it's just not that big a deal to swap them out. I have 4 of them to change, and if I'm taking an inordinate amount of time, it's a 2 hour job. Usually takes about an hour, and I usually get a few years out of them once they're on there.

I've used other smaller, lighter-weight machines with 3 knife heads and the surface finish was notably different. If you're looking at a smaller imported machine, I'd spring for the insert head. If it's a good heavy machine, give the stock head a chance first.

[Andrew Hughes]

That’s a really good point Will. Spreading work out across a wider head. Most often I read post they say I don’t buy 16 inch wide boards only 6 or 7 inches wide so why would I need a 16 inch wide head.
The answer is you can spread out the work,bigger diameter heads produce a better finish.
The feed pressure from a insert head is not something trivial.
I speak now from my experience I use my jointer in the same way as Will. I go months with excellent cuts from my machine that has a 5 inch cutting circle. I also enjoy sitting in my chair while facing lumber mostly just the weight of the stock is enough downward pressure. My job is moving wood left to right. When the boards start needing pressure it’s time to take them out and sharpen them. Or wett them off the infeed table.
A insert head in a hand feed machine not me never again.

[Mel Fulks]

Tersa on my SCM/Minimax J/P combo...and I'm extremely pleased. If I had North American traditional "separate" machines, I'd have straight knives on a jointer most likely and something spiralish on a thicknesser. I like Tersa because I can replace them in about three minutes or even move one just a hair if there's a nick and they are also reversible.

By email I asked what steel they use for the HSS , and noted I'm aware of the many incorrect and mis-leading uses of
the term "high speed steel". They use M-2 and I've heard nothing bad about Tersa.

[Jim Becker]

That’s a really good point Will. Spreading work out across a wider head. Most often I read post they say I don’t buy 16 inch wide boards only 6 or 7 inches wide so why would I need a 16 inch wide head.
The answer is you can spread out the work,bigger diameter heads produce a better finish.
The feed pressure from a insert head is not something trivial.
I speak now from my experience I use my jointer in the same way as Will. I go months with excellent cuts from my machine that has a 5 inch cutting circle. I also enjoy sitting in my chair while facing lumber mostly just the weight of the stock is enough downward pressure. My job is moving wood left to right. When the boards start needing pressure it’s time to take them out and sharpen them. Or wett them off the infeed table.
A insert head in a hand feed machine not me never again.

Further, a wide jointer allows one to process odd shapes and curved work a lot easier. Sometimes skewing a workpiece slightly improves the result for certain grain situations, too. The bottom line is that narrow boards can be worked with a wide machine, but wide boards just don't fit on a narrow one relative to face jointing. That happens to be my primary use for the jointer function on my J/P, too. I rarely process edges on there as the slider takes care of that nicely while ripping after the material is flat and thicknessed.