Oliver 4040 12" saw

[David Mueller]

Having a hard time locating any one who has seen, used this saw and has an opinion. Obviously it's not in any class as vintage but is it still holding in the tradition of the originals as far as it goes? Dev, Lou ? you seem to be our go to guys on this :o I had a previous thread on 10 vs 12" and decided definitely on 12" which the Oliver is. Others are Grizzly or Bridgewood at this point.

[Dev Emch]

No comparison between this saw and an Oliver 88-DM from the mid to late 60s. This one is a morf between an oliver 88 look alike and a powermatic 66. Its doent look bad but i would not touch it. Simply not my cup of tea.

[lou sansone]

david
if you can get your hands on one of them and carefully take a look at all the particualrs it would help in the decission. I have not personally looked at this saw. Does oliver provide a customer referral type of system, where you can call a satisfied customer? Is vintage old iron in the cards for you?
lou

[David Mueller]

No comparison between this saw and an Oliver 88-DM from the mid to late 60s. This one is a morf between an oliver 88 look alike and a powermatic 66. Its doent look bad but i would not touch it. Simply not my cup of tea.

I agree, I wasn't even trying to compare. I just cannot find anyone who has one or seen one. I'll try to see if there is a way for referral from the dealer after the new year. As far a old iron, I'm not in the position to restore one and one which has is pricy from the little I've seen. Plus, the room needed to drive one in my 2 car garage is dicey. I try to steer toward quality at a reasonable price and buy mostly only once.
Lou, If you have tabs on restored old iron which is reasonably priced you can PM me and I'll check it out.

[Jim Becker]

David, one of the issues with finding some of this stuff "out there" is that the Oliver name was kinda out of things for awhile until the present owner bought the name and reintroduced product and the brand. Frankly, I've only seen the 10" jointer posted about so far. Perhaps Sunhill can direct you to a customer or three who have purchased the saw you are interested in.

[Dan Racette]

but in the new 3hp version. (According to what I have been told, it is the exact saw repurposed with a smaller moter and only the 5/8 arbor, that saw you are talking about has both that and the larger arbor, oh, yeah and 5hp) It is cheap. $1095. It is built reasonably strong, but I can tell you that DEV is correct, no comparison. It was a decision between the Bridgewood model of the same size at about $1400. I would have rather, and still would rather have the bridgewood. I got a combo deal from sunhill, and it reduced my overall bill by enough that I couldn't pass it up. I think that "tuning" this saw has been much more challenging that it should have been. In fact, after all my efforts I could have had a piece of "old iron" tuned up by now!!! Don't get me wrong, I believe that this boy here can surely get it to cut, but it just doesn't have that inspiration of confidence that a sturdier machine would give. The table is heavy and it is true, so at least that is good. We'll see how it goes. I thought it was a tempting saw at this price, so I bit. Again, I don't think that I would bite again, but the function and accuracy is there. I also have the "new" oliver 10" jointer. I'd give it a slightly better rating, for sure. Any q's you are welcome to send me a message.

[Dev Emch]

Jim...
The problem is that the blue Oliver is like the yellow Dewalt. These companies worked extremely hard during the hey day of american woodworking to build as they say today, political capital.

The name Dewalt and Oliver are now recognized by virtue of this political capital even though the reason for this political capital no longer exists.

So companies like black and decker and blue oliver are now spending the remainder of this politcal capital marketing either different tools or imported tools.

The machine tools offered by blue oliver are for the most part very good machines in comparision to others that are currently available. But they are not the machine tools that lured you to them by virture of the Oliver name.

In short, there was never a humpback, bumble bee yellow radial arm saw nor is a blue oliver equivalent to a teal colored oliver. Its all about marketing in the new world in which we live.

[Jim Becker]

Dev...exactly what I was saying in a different form. Same name...different company. Different stuff. Hopefully, the "new Oliver" will produce equipment that is at least competitively placed relative to quality and cost.

[Dev Emch]

Dev...exactly what I was saying in a different form. Same name...different company. Different stuff. Hopefully, the "new Oliver" will produce equipment that is at least competitively placed relative to quality and cost.

Agreed. And for what it is worth, the remainder of the teal oliver company is now Eagle Machinery & Repair at the same olde oliver address in Grand Rapids, MI.

If you really really gotta have a brand spankin new Oliver 88-DM based on the 200xxx series castings, then you can get one. The only difference is that the Oliver nameplate has been removed and replaced with an Eagle Machinery Namplate.

Price you ask? Well, are you sitting down? I asked Rich Fink this question about 8 months to a year ago and he said that it would cost about $30,000 dollars and take upwards of six months to complete. This has to do with lead times with foundarys producing heavy one off castings from vintage patterns.

[Jim Becker]

If you really really gotta have a brand spankin new Oliver 88-DM based on the 200xxx series castings, then you can get one. The only difference is that the Oliver nameplate has been removed and replaced with an Eagle Machinery Namplate.

Price you ask? Well, are you sitting down? I asked Rich Fink this question about 8 months to a year ago and he said that it would cost about $30,000 dollars and take upwards of six months to complete.

Fortunately...I don't need one this week. LOL! My next table saw will be a Euro slider and cost, hopefully, less than a third of that puppy! Assuming I ever buy one. This parenting thing is severely limiting to one's woodworking pursuits...

[Ed Kowaski]

I also have the "new" oliver 10" jointer. I'd give it a slightly better rating, for sure.

I can't comment on the saw but I also own a bue Oliver 10" jointer with a solid knife spiral head. For the record I've owned a Delta 8", Wadkin 9", some Italian 16" jointer planer combo monster and now the Oliver.

The Wadkin had a nice fence, rack and pinion rather then the Powermatic style the Oliver has. The Oliver fence is beefy and true but crude compared to the Wadkin. I expect I would feel the same about any of the Powermatic style fences. I other words the problem is not in how the fence is made but rather the design used. A minor quibble more then made up for by the long true tables.

The Oliver/spiral is by far the nicest jointer of the bunch to use and the finish is substantially better then any of the other machines produced. I think it's a great machine for a great price. Based on my experiance with the jointer I'd take a good hard look at blue Oliver for other new machines.

Ed

[Dev Emch]

Fortunately...I don't need one this week. LOL! My next table saw will be a Euro slider and cost, hopefully, less than a third of that puppy! Assuming I ever buy one. This parenting thing is severely limiting to one's woodworking pursuits...

Yes, its expensive to propagate one self. Hope the copy turns out as well as the original.:D

But this economic dislocation of US makers is also having a hard time on woodworking. Northfield is also having a tuff time as is general of canada. When I make replacement spindles for shapers, I always try to make two or three to cut the cost down and make a bit more profit. Even if I have to sit on the spindle for a year or so. If I make just one on a custom request, the bill is often around $900 to $1250 dollars. Its the cost of doing custom machine work and design work for a one off item.

[Rob Will]

Ed, does your blue Oliver jointer head have individual carbide teeth that strike the work at a 90 degree angle or are they skewed so as to strike the work at an angle? i.e: shearing action (Byrd)
How does it perform on figured wood?
Have you looked at the 16" jointer and 24" planer?
The equipment looks heavy but that's about all I can speculate on.
Your general impression?
Rob

[Ed Kowaski]

Hi Rob,
My blue Oliver has a solid 10" long HSS knife that sits in a spiral groove in the cutterhead block. It's not a carbide insert head. As I recall the helical carbide insert head Oliver sells is a shear cutter as is the HSS spiral. Sunhill has photo's of both styles on their web site.

As an aside it seems that the industry refers to any carbide insert jointer/planer head as a helical head and the solid knife HSS head as a spiral head, both are in fact helical as defined by the dictionary.

The performance on figured and difficult timber is outstanding. Many boards go back to the jointer for a last pass now when the planer is having problems. I just don't see tear out from the jointer.

I have not seen any of the other blue Oliver machines.

[David Mueller]

Thanks to all espically Rob and Dev for comments. I think I'll cross this one of my list. To restate, I was never trying to compare old to new. Just wanted to see of the tradition of the old carried into the new and it seems to not have.

Dev, A brand spankin' new 88-DM for 30K, well I'll just set it up between the Rolls and the Bently but in front of the Ferrari for color balance :cool::D:D