PM-V11 on Lie-Nielson Planes?

[Erich Weidner]

I see Veritas has PM-V11 blades for non Veritas planes.

Do any of these fit without modification in LN planes?

[Tony Wilkins]

I see Veritas has PM-V11 blades for non Veritas planes.

Do any of these fit without modification in LN planes?
Blades yes; chip breaker no. The Stanley plane replacement blades of appropriate size pretty much fit.

[ken hatch]

I see Veritas has PM-V11 blades for non Veritas planes.

Do any of these fit without modification in LN planes?

Erich,

The Veritas PM-V11 iron fits a LN plane with no problem. The problem is the cap iron on some LN planes. Because the Veritas iron is thinner than the LN the adjuster may keep the cutter/cap iron from seating properly. It can be fixed by grinding the hole in the cap iron until it seats. Not a big deal other than being a PITA. BTW, none of my LN planes have LN A2 cutters and most needed modification of the chip breaker for the replacement chip breaker/iron to seat on the frog.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

The problem lies with the positioning of the slot for the Y lever, that is, where it pokes out of the chipbreaker.

Here are three chipbreakers: Veritas, LN and Stanley. The slot for the LN is 1/4" higher than the other two ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/LV%20Chipbreaker_html_m514b0e82.jpg

So, use the LN chipbreaker with the PM-V11 blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Erich Weidner]

So, use the LN chipbreaker with the PM-V11 blade.

No modification? Just works?

[Derek Cohen]

No modification? Just works?

Yes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Yes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Should be maybe. What I posted above still applies. Sometimes yes, The LN chip breaker with a PM-v11 cutter will work without mods. Most of the time no, The hole in the LN chip breaker will need enlarging for the prong on the "Y" lever to fit and allow the PM-v11/LN cap iron set to mate with the frog.

There are two problems with using after market cutters with LN planes. The first: All other cutters that I know of with maybe the exception of Clifton are thinner than LN iron. Because the cutter is thinner the prong on the "Y" leaver will need to set deeper into the cap iron. Often it can not set deep enough to allow the cutter/chipbreaker to mate with the frog. If that is the case the easiest fix is to slightly enlarge the hole in the chip breaker. The second problem, also an easy fix, is the different location of the hole for the adjuster vs. other chipbreakers, as Derek pointed out. The fix is to use LN chipbreakers with your PM-v11 cutter.

BTW, I could be wrong, but I think the newer your LN plane is the more likely you will have the problem. One of the reasons the LN plane has very little backlash with their adjuster is because the fit of the prong and the hole in the cap iron is so tight. The prong is angled which means as the prong engages it can only go so deep. With a thinner cutter that limit may keep the chipbreaker/cutter from mating with the frog.

Sorry to get so deep into the weeds, but bottom line is maybe.

ken

[les winter]

On mine (4, 6, 7) I needed to treat the opening in the chip breaker as above and in addition widen the slot to fit over the lateral adjustment wheel. A thou or two does it. Dremel tool.

[Tony Wilkins]

Using the LN chip breaker, I needed no blade alteration on my 2014 build (iirc) #4.

[ken hatch]

Using the LN chip breaker, I needed no blade alteration on my 2014 build (iirc) #4.

Tony,

That has been my experience, again I'm old and forgetful but I think I've only had the problem with newer planes. In a way it makes sense, the tighter the fit of the "Y's" prong with the chip breaker the less backlash of the depth adjuster. LN's "improvement" of their planes makes fitting an aftermarket cutter harder.

ken

[lowell holmes]

I have never had an issue with Lee Valley. Contact them and you will get an answer.

Rob Lee reads this forum, maybe he will repond.

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony,

That has been my experience, again I'm old and forgetful but I think I've only had the problem with newer planes. In a way it makes sense, the tighter the fit of the "Y's" prong with the chip breaker the less backlash of the depth adjuster. LN's "improvement" of their planes makes fitting an aftermarket cutter harder.

ken

Meanwhile at LN HQ, employee goes to boss: “Mr. Lie Nielsen, the latest design tweak means that the Lee Valley blades won’t fit on our planes.”

Tom, secretly smirking, “Oh, darn.”*

*I have never seen that there is much of an adversarial relationship between the brands.

[ken hatch]

I have never had an issue with Lee Valley. Contact them and you will get an answer.

Rob Lee reads this forum, maybe he will repond.

Lowel,

It is not a Lee Valley problem. It is a compatibility problem between the chip breaker, cutter and frog when trying to use a cutter that is thinner than the LN A2 cutter.

ken

[ken hatch]

Meanwhile at LN HQ, employee goes to boss: “Mr. Lie Nielsen, the latest design tweak means that the Lee Valley blades won’t fit on our planes.”

Tom, secretly smirking, “Oh, darn.”*

*I have never seen that there is much of an adversarial relationship between the brands.

Tony,

Thanks for my morning laugh :),

ken

[steven c newman]

Main problem...IF the yoke's tab that adjusts the depth of cut can not REACH that slot in the chipbreaker, because the iron is too thick....doesn't matter who's chipbreaker you use on a plane....because you will be adjusting with a small hammer, instead...

[Jim Koepke]

Main problem...IF the yoke's tab that adjusts the depth of cut can not REACH that slot in the chipbreaker, because the iron is too thick....doesn't matter who's chipbreaker you use on a plane....because you will be adjusting with a small hammer, instead...

Rob Cossman wouldn't agree, his Pinnacle blades are 0.140" thick. The chip breaker is designed similar to what some folks did to chip breakers with thicker premium blades:


Exclusively designed Chipbreaker Blade Adjustment Tabs allow thicker premium blades/chipbreakers to function in antique planes.

Some posted here before the introduction of the Pinnacle blades of silver soldering tabs to their chip breakers to contend with thicker irons.

"For every problem there is a solution." - Morgan Freeman's character in RED.

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

Meanwhile at LN HQ, employee goes to boss: “Mr. Lie Nielsen, the latest design tweak means that the Lee Valley blades won’t fit on our planes.”

Tom, secretly smirking, “Oh, darn.”*


If LN would make PM-V11 blades, I'd happily throw money at them for some. (Hint, hint, if anyone from LN is paying attention). :)

[Derek Cohen]

For LN bevel up planes, David Eckert (here in Australia) makes PM blades which will fit a number of the LN planes, such as the jack, and some block planes. I have not used them and have no idea what they are like, other than they are PM steel and, according to David, equivalent to PM-V11 - of course he will say this :) . Link: https://www.thetoolworks.com.au/pma11v-plane-blades/

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Erich Weidner]

For LN bevel up planes, David Eckert (here in Australia) makes PM blades which will fit a number of the LN planes, such as the jack, and some block planes. I have not used them and have no idea what they are like, other than they are PM steel and, according to David, equivalent to PM-V11 - of course he will say this :) . Link: https://www.thetoolworks.com.au/pma11v-plane-blades/

Regards from Perth

Derek

Looks like they are no longer selling just blades for 3rd party planes. Alas, the LN planes I'm interested in PM-V11 are all BD anyway.

[Derek Cohen]

Erich, for bevel down, just go to Veritas. I have the PM-V11 for Stanley planes, which is thinner. However, that makes no difference at all. The frog is adjustable and, anyway, one wants the mouth open a little when using the chipbreaker. I have not tried the PM-V11 blades for their bevel down planes (not the Custom versions) since they do not make one for a #3. My logic says that the #4 and above should fit and work correctly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Erich, for bevel down, just go to Veritas. I have the PM-V11 for Stanley planes, which is thinner. However, that makes no difference at all. The frog is adjustable and, anyway, one wants the mouth open a little when using the chipbreaker. I have not tried the PM-V11 blades for their bevel down planes (not the Custom versions) since they do not make one for a #3. My logic says that the #4 and above should fit and work correctly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Read some of the other replies. What you are posting is not always correct.

Most of the time you are spot on, not this time.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

Read some of the other replies. What you are posting is not always correct.

Most of the time you are spot on, not this time.

ken

Ken

There was one occasion when I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken :)

I'm afraid that you will have to be explain your comment - specifics please - for me to respond sensibly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

p.s. If you are referring to the Veritas blade not fitting a LN plane with the Veritas chipbreaker, then use (as I said) the LN chipbreaker. A tad of fettling may be needed by a few (I have not experienced this on several planes), but that is small beer.

[ken hatch]

Ken

There was one occasion when I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken :)

I'm afraid that you will have to be explain your comment - specifics please - for me to respond sensibly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

p.s. If you are referring to the Veritas blade not fitting a LN plane with the Veritas chipbreaker, then use (as I said) the LN chipbreaker. A tad of fettling may be needed by a few (I have not experienced this on several planes), but that is small beer.

Derek,

As you have pointed out the only cap iron that I've found to work with LN planes is a OEM chip breaker. While I'm sure I have not tried all available I have tried Stanley, Hock, Veritas, and only the LN chip breaker will work with LN planes. I did talk to Ron Hock several years back about making a custom chip breaker for use with his cutters but I never followed thru because the modification to the OEM cap iron is so simple. BTW, it is simple now because I know what is needed. At the time it had me pulling my hair out. BTW, I tried some really dumb fixes before settling on just using a file or Drimel to enlarge the hole in the chip breaker.

The problem with fitting a Veritas PM-v11 cutter to a LN plane is the blade is thinner than the OEM blade and with some planes the "Y" adjuster's prong will not allow the OEM chip breaker/Veritas cutter set to fully seat on the frog. I believe it varies with the age of your plane but I could be wrong and it could be random. None of my LN planes have OEM cutters, not all needed the cap iron modified to work with other make cutters but most did. I'm old and I was dealing with the fitting problem a few years back so my memory is suspect but I think the earlier LN planes could be fitted with a Veritas blade using a LN chip breaker with no problem. It only became a problem with later planes. But then I could be full of it and it is totally random.

BTW, if you ask MsBubba I'm wrong more than right. The problem is I can't argue that point with her :p.

Take care, wear your mask and be safe,

ken

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Ken

In theory you are correct about this scenario: If the adjuster end of the Y-lever is too wide for the slot in the chipbreaker, then it could bind. Could this happen if a blade were thinner? Theoretically, yes. The blade must bed on the frog, and the thickness of the blade will determine which part of the Y-lever it connects. The Y-lever is tapered and the thicker end lies lower down.
https://i.postimg.cc/W15jxXQr/Plane-parts1.jpg

The part you are referring to is number 7, the Y-lever ...

https://i.postimg.cc/pdyxvKHS/Y-lever1.jpg

The chances of this occurring in reality are very small - possibly the very rare rogue chipbreaker - with the LN Y-lever and the Veritas (or other, such as Clifton) chipbreakers. All these LN planes I have used (a lot! - I have demonstrated at wood shows in Perth for LN for many years), and the couple I own, along with Veritas chipbreakers and blades, have some slop. I have never come across a chipbreakered Bailey design where there was no backlash. In a BU plane with a Norris-type adjuster there may be no or minimal backlash, but it is highly unlikely with a Bailey style adjuster.

I think that the problem is that both of us are getting too old to think with out some form of lubrication, and it would be nice to continue this conversation over a couple of beers and a barbie.

We are staying healthy in Western Australia so far - touch wood. The situation in Victoria is not good but sounding like it is coming under control. It does not take more than one person with the virus and an absence of common sense or a narcissistic nature to change all that. Take care,

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Hi Ken

"...it would be nice to continue this conversation over a couple of beers and a barbie..."


Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I would enjoy that. The only two continents I did not visit before I hung up my googles and scarf were Australia and Antarctica. If I had stuck it out for another six months that list would have been down to Antarctica. I still regret missing Australia.

ken

[Tom Bussey]

I don't see why the LN chip breaker will not work with a blade that is a few thousandths thinner. I have never had a LN plane or used an A2 blade but from building dies , mostly using A2, for a living for 50 years I can say that A2 is very good tool steel. Why not just stop and sharpen, when it get dull and then go back to woodworking.

[Phil Mueller]

I was thinking the same, Tom. I have a few LN planes/irons and they seem to sharpen up just fine.

[Al Weber]

I contacted LV about compatibility a few weeks ago and received a fairly blunt response saying they can't recommend such retrofitting. I'm sure this was just a liability issue but I'm glad this question arose here. Time to rethink my plans.

[ken hatch]

I don't see why the LN chip breaker will not work with a blade that is a few thousandths thinner. I have never had a LN plane or used an A2 blade but from building dies , mostly using A2, for a living for 50 years I can say that A2 is very good tool steel. Why not just stop and sharpen, when it get dull and then go back to woodworking.

Tom,

If you look at the photo of the "Y" lever Derek posted you can see that the the part that goes through the cutter and the chip breaker gets thicker as you move towards the Y. A thinner blade will mean the chip breaker rides lower on the Y lever when the iron is seated on the frog. Because the Y lever gets thicker towards the Y the thin blade and the chip breaker may not allow the blade/chip breaker set to seat on the Frog.

This is not a problem with all LN planes, I have 6 LN bench planes only one worked with an after market O1 or PM-v11 cutter without a mod to the chip breaker. Other folks , like Derek, report not needing to mod the chip breaker on any of their planes. It may be random but I think it depends on the age of your plane. Older LN planes are less likely to need modding than new ones. Of course YMMV.

I sharpen using natural stones, natural stones do not play well with A2. BTW, that is how I work, my sharpening bench is off the working end of my main workbench and I stop to sharpen often as I work. With my stones, A2 does not fit that work flow and sharpening system. I use mostly O1 but some of my irons are PM-v11, both work well with natural stones.

ken

[ken hatch]

I was thinking the same, Tom. I have a few LN planes/irons and they seem to sharpen up just fine.

Phil,

I'll bet you use synthetic water stones to sharpen. A2 sharpens on synthetic stones but is very slow on natural stones.

ken

[ken hatch]

I contacted LV about compatibility a few weeks ago and received a fairly blunt response saying they can't recommend such retrofitting. I'm sure this was just a liability issue but I'm glad this question arose here. Time to rethink my plans.

Al,

Using the LN chip breaker with Veritas cutters is no problem other than you may have to slightly enlarge the adjustment hole in the chip breaker with a file or Dremil for the chip breaker/Veritas cutter set to seat on the Frog. It is not a biggie once you know where the problem is.

ken

[Andy Jungblut]

Ken,

I have two newer LN planes (#4 and #7), and both needed the chip breaker to be filed for my PM-V11 Veritas irons to fit in the plane properly.

Andy

[ken hatch]

Ken,

I have two newer LN planes (#4 and #7), and both needed the chip breaker to be filed for my PM-V11 Veritas irons to fit in the plane properly.

Andy

Andy,

Thank you. I'm old and forgetful and it has been years since the last time I fooled with fitting after market irons to a LN plane but that is what I remembered, that while most older planes worked ok the newer ones needed modding.

ken

[Bruce Mack]

For LN bevel up planes, David Eckert (here in Australia) makes PM blades which will fit a number of the LN planes, such as the jack, and some block planes. I have not used them and have no idea what they are like, other than they are PM steel and, according to David, equivalent to PM-V11 - of course he will say this :) . Link: https://www.thetoolworks.com.au/pma11v-plane-blades/

Regards from Perth

Derek
I have the Eckert blade on my L-N low angle jack, a bevel up plane. Though I hollow-ground and honed it I haven't used it enough to compare the edge holding with the original blades. It has a flat back and fits perfectly.

[Phil Mueller]

That’s true, Ken...diamond and synthetic. Kind of raises the question, given the cost of good stones, is it better to spend extra $ and time on an iron that works with your current stones, or buy a few additional stones for the type of steel in your planes.

[ken hatch]

That’s true, Ken...diamond and synthetic. Kind of raises the question, given the cost of good stones, is it better to spend extra $ and time on an iron that works with your current stones, or buy a few additional stones for the type of steel in your planes.

Phil,

I've never like the feel or the quality of the edge left by either diamond or synthetic polishing stones and I really hate the synthetic stone monkey motion. Now the Unicorn process may change my mind about diamonds and the cutting edge although I expect I'll hang in with natural stones or India stones.

ken

[Warren Mickley]

I was thinking the same, Tom. I have a few LN planes/irons and they seem to sharpen up just fine.

I have been to around ten Lie Nielsen hand tool events. I have never seen a LN plane perform like an old Bailey. I don't know whether their problems are with the steel or the sharpening media or the one who is sharpening.

[Phil Mueller]

Ken, your point is well taken. I’ll have to concede I don’t know what I don’t know. Have not tried natural stones or India stones, or the Unicorn process for that matter. Easy enough to get a buffing wheel...may try that in the near future.

[Tony Wilkins]

I have been to around ten Lie Nielsen hand tool events. I have never seen a LN plane perform like an old Bailey. I don't know whether their problems are with the steel or the sharpening media or the one who is sharpening.
Are you saying they don’t perform as well? Or better?

[ken hatch]

Are you saying they don’t perform as well? Or better?

Tony,

Having read posts by Warren I can without doubt state he did not feel the LN planes performed as well as an old Bailey plane. The Bailey plane was designed by a man who knew what a plane needed to do and every part from the frog to the chip breaker, to the iron does its job well. That can't be said of some of the designs that followed.

ken

[Robert Hazelwood]

I replaced the blade in my LN #4 (I think 2012 vintage) with a Hock O1. The Hock is 3/32" (0.09375"). Using the original chipbreaker, the thinner blade meant that the tapered adjuster prong would not fully slip into the chipbreaker slot. That slot is milled so that it is a perfect fit on the adjuster prong when attached to an 1/8" thick blade, which eliminates one source of backlash. With a thinner blade, the CB slot cannot come down any further onto the prong (b/c it is tapered) so the blade/cap iron assembly would be held up off the bed of the frog a little bit, resting on that tapered prong instead of the frog.

A few minutes of filing on the chipbreaker slot fixed the problem. You have to be careful with the filing or you can create a lot of backlash. Mine has a little more than it did originally, but doesn't bother me. If you go back to the LN blade you would have quite a bit more backlash, so you'd probably want to just order a new chipbreaker if you care about minimal backlash.

Looks like the PM-v11 blades for Stanley replacement are 0.100". So a little thicker than the Hock, but closer to Hock than to the original LN iron (.125"). I can't say for sure if you'll need to file the CB slot but it seems fairly likely. When you install the blade for the first time check that the blade can fully seat on the frog.


I replaced the iron b/c it was always getting microchips and leaving little lines all over the work. Unacceptable in a smoothing plane IMO. It would get these chips long before the blade became dull from wear, so whatever edge longevity advantage it theoretically has could not be utilized. I hear this kind of complaint often enough about A2 that I think it is just a characteristic of the steel rather than a defective iron. In four or so years with the Hock iron I don't think I have ever gotten a chip- it just gradually gets duller. Same with any vintage irons.

The plane itself is fantastic though and I still recommend them.

[Derek Cohen]

I have been to around ten Lie Nielsen hand tool events. I have never seen a LN plane perform like an old Bailey. I don't know whether their problems are with the steel or the sharpening media or the one who is sharpening.

Warren, I would suggest that a wood show is not the best place to assess a hand plane. You are dealing with blades which have been used by every (wo)man and his dog. You have no idea who sharpened it or how long ago. The planes are fiddled with and whatever the original settings were, that was long ago. LN, as a company philosophy, do not appear to recognise the chipbreaker as a tool for tearout control. Consequently, the results are likely to be less than optimal if the wood was demanding in this way.

I have a couple of LN bench planes (#3 and #4 1/2). The latter does not get much use, but is a really excellent performer - just too large and heavy for my liking. The #3 is a great plane, and certainly performs better than my Stanley #3, which has been tuned to the max. I use both planes with PM-V11 steel. (And no, the LN planes have the original chipbreakers and these have not required any modifications at all).

In what way is the LN better than the Stanley? Easier adjustments, the blade seems to bed a little better, and just a more solid feel in the hand. I get good results from the Stanley (to which I have great sentimental attachment), but the LN just seems to be more predictable and reliable. This is about these two planes. I do not generalise to all LN and Stanley planes. Neither should you.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[mike stenson]

Phil,

I'll bet you use synthetic water stones to sharpen. A2 sharpens on synthetic stones but is very slow on natural stones.

ken

Probably the reason I don't mind A2 ;) Also, one of the reasons I have synthetic water stones. This is again one of those issues where I don't believe there is an intrinsically better, just different.

[ken hatch]

Probably the reason I don't mind A2 ;) Also, one of the reasons I have synthetic water stones. This is again one of those issues where I don't believe there is an intrinsically better, just different.


Mike,

I agree, use what blows your skirt.

ken

[mike stenson]

Mike,

I agree, use what blows your skirt.

ken

I'm also in a different position where I do not find sharpening enjoyable. It's just necessary for me. So, while I understand the difference in feel etc.. I don't get excited about it, which makes me very pragmatic towards sharpening :)

[Rafael Herrera]

In some discussions about the advantages of the LN and LV planes it is pointed out the level of precision machining these planes receive. The depth adjustment yoke is one of the components that benefits from that, it is said that these planes have minimal or no backlash. Screwing around with the cap iron fitting may add backlash to the depth adjustment.

[Jake Hillestad]

I have been to around ten Lie Nielsen hand tool events. I have never seen a LN plane perform like an old Bailey. I don't know whether their problems are with the steel or the sharpening media or the one who is sharpening.

Don't want to start something but you have me curious. From my recollection of previous posts it seems like you're not a big LN guy (which is fine), but that being the case, why would you spend your time going to 10 Lie Nielsen events?

[ken hatch]

I'm also in a different position where I do not find sharpening enjoyable. It's just necessary for me. So, while I understand the difference in feel etc.. I don't get excited about it, which makes me very pragmatic towards sharpening :)

Mike,

It isn't just feel but both stone and iron are getting too deep into the weeds to be interesting to anyone other than a sharpening nerd and guilty as charged :o. But for those that wish to change from LN cutters to after market iron for whatever reason there are issues that may need dealing with.

BTW, I'm in the process of re-evaluating my whole process, world view, whatever, and when it is over may require a healthy serving of Crow. At this time I think it will just confirm what I've thought for ages but is a different way to get there or could be just a improvement.

Whatever, it still comes down to what blows your skirt.

ken

[mike stenson]

Mike,

It isn't just feel but both stone and iron are getting too deep into the weeds to be interesting to anyone other than a sharpening nerd and guilty as charged :o. But for those that wish to change from LN cutters to after market iron for whatever reason there are issues that may need dealing with.

BTW, I'm in the process of re-evaluating my whole process, world view, whatever, and when it is over may require a healthy serving of Crow. At this time I think it will just confirm what I've thought for ages but is a different way to get there or could be just a improvement.

Whatever, it still comes down to what blows your skirt.

ken

Yea, the unicorn edge method has my interest.. but playing with it will have to wait until I'm far enough in my project to get the grinder out (I'm still in the shuffling things around to be able to work on sections bit).

[Warren Mickley]

Don't want to start something but you have me curious. From my recollection of previous posts it seems like you're not a big LN guy (which is fine), but that being the case, why would you spend your time going to 10 Lie Nielsen events?

There is usually more than just Lie Nielsen at these events. Ten years ago I met Matt Bickford at an event at Ball and Ball. It was his first show, early on the first day. I remember telling him that most people needed education. They could not look at a complex molding and plan how to make it with hollows and rounds. He was skeptical that day, but soon was writing a blog and a book on how to make moldings. I met Mark Peet, wood collector. He said "Rhamnus cathartica, common buckthorn" as soon as I pulled a sample from my pocket.

I have also met Steve Voigt (planemaker), Dan Schwank (Red Rose), Raney Nelson (Daed), Isaac Smith (Blackburn Tools), Jim Leamy (plow planes), Paul Peters (Acer Ferrous), and lots more. It is very stimulating.

[Jake Hillestad]

Fair enough, makes a lot more sense framed in that manner.

[Jim Koepke]

There is usually more than just Lie Nielsen at these events.

Yes, on my first attendance at an LN Tool Event, Thom Lie-Nielsen was met along with Ron Hock and Glenn Drake. It was also in a foundry/art studio so there were also demonstrations of non-woodworking interests.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I've got more than my fair share of LN and LV planes (what can I say, SWMBO buys them for me as presents and better than ties or shoes). Yes I use a few of them, but not all of them. Once you get used to a certain plane, it is very hard to move to another. For me (since mid 2019), it is my MF #3, my 5-1/2 Bailey and my LN jointer.

Now to the unicorn edge: The power buffing makes this very easy (I tried it last week!), but the fact is, many of us have been doing this for quite a while, though with a strop. I've had problems how many seem to think a low angle grind is bad, and it might very well be. But my stropping of the edge changes the angle with which the chisel enters the wood. I'm not a sharpening aficionado and I don't really think a bunch about the sharpening angle, some might be very low, some not so low.

[Charles Guest]

Tage Frid buffed chisel edges on a buffer (see his dovetailing video) so this is of course nothing new though I take it from your post that there are some who think it is. With regard to a bench chisel, stropping on leather produces the same effect if you go at it vigorously as the leather rolls up in a wave in front of the chisel - Paul Sellers comes to mind though he by no means owns the particular stropping routine he demonstrates on his website. Stropping vigorously on something very firm is likely to product facets rather than a smooth curve at the cutting edge.