Help me choose new ROS-please

[Lisa Starr]

Well, my Dewalt ROS (DWC6421) has died. I've been perfectly happy with it and it owes me nothing. That said, I'd like your thoughts before purchasing a new one. I'd like to stay under $200 and have some other wishes.

1) Uses 5" discs, hook & loop, as I have lots of stock.
2) Reasonably ergonomic, as my adventure with the big C has left me with fatigue. The easier to operate, the longer I can spend in my shop.
3) I have relatively small hands, so a smallish grip in more comfortable, though the Dewalt was fine in this regard.
4) Decent dust collection.

Do you have a standout in your shop?

Thanks

[Steve Eure]

Lisa, I've been satisfied with my Bosch ROS. It's about the same size as the Dewalt and is priced reasonable. They have several models in that size range that run from $60 and up.

[Mike Cutler]

I have three of the variable speed version of the Dewalt that you have, model 6423. I think they're supposed to be ergonomically the same as the 6421's, just a variable speed version. I think all three of mine together were right at the $200.00 mark.
I like them.

[Jim Becker]

If you can't go to Festool or Mirka due to budget, then Bosch would be a good choice for quality, dust collection and reduced vibration. IMHO.

[Pete Staehling]

I have 3 ROS sanders that always have 3 different grits installed. I work with small parts so I often sand for just a very short while with each grit before switching, so having three makes a lot of sense for me. Anyway I have Dewalt 26451s and can't imagine wanting them to do anything better than they do. Maybe I don't know what I am missing, but they seem to work well and have good ergonomics. There just isn't anything I'd complain about with them. At about $70 a piece you could almost get three for your $200 budget.

[Orlando Gonzalez]

I have the DW6423, a PC 343VS, and I'm looking to get the Bosch ROS20VSC soon. The DFW & PC have worked very well for me.

[mike stenson]

If you can't go to Festool or Mirka due to budget, then Bosch would be a good choice for quality, dust collection and reduced vibration. IMHO.

I agree with this. I replaced my old PC with a Festool and the vibration reduction alone was worth it. If I actually used these things more often, it'd have been worth much more to me. Ergonomically it's much better than my PC ever was, the dust collection is far superior too.

[David M Peters]

I've been very happy with my Makita BO5041. Dust collection in its little bag works surprisingly well.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

If you're a DeWalt fan, and if you have the 20V max tools already, give the cordless ROS a shot. I like it. NO, it's not as powerful as a corded, but it is nice to not have that cord that you have to deal with. Yes, the vac hose will still be in the way, but personally I don't use the vac.

[Dave Sabo]

This checks all your boxes. Sort of. The paper you have won't be as effective because the hole patters will be different. I'd suggest selling it on and use the correct paper or mesh abrasives.
https://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanding-and-brushing/random-orbital-sander/574993---ets-125-req-plus-usa

This also checks a lot of boxes and might use the paper you have on hand. More $$$, and hard to find, but can use a 6" pad too !. Which you might find useful. It will also require you to re-learn -or- adjust how you hold a sander.

https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/random-orbit-sanders-ros65vc-5-29852-p/

I still prefer that festool ,and would suggest going that route with some diablo mesh disks from the depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-Diablo-5-in-SandNet-Coated-Assorted-Disc-50-Pack-DND050ASTH50P/311196042

[Lisa Starr]

Dave - Thank you so much for the links. I had no idea there was a Festool in that price range. Pending further investigation, I imagine I'll be placing an order for the Festool.

What can you tell me about the mesh disks you linked? They aren't showing a hole pattern, which is odd unless the mesh allows dust extraction thru the entire disk.

[Dave Sabo]

Lisa - you're correct about the mesh. They work on everyone's hole pattern. They last longer (sorta) than reg. discs too. The exception is the edges are weak, so if you go up into a corner or catch it on a profile they tend to scrunch up and you have to swap. Old ones can be used for hand work though.

You'll NEED a backer interface or you'll tear up your sander's pad. Diablo includes one, but it doesn't work with festool.

Buy these:
https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-203344-granat-net-protection-pad-for-5-sanders-2-pack.html


A nice thing about festool is you can try it for 30 days no obligation. You'll need to buy it locally for it to be practical because you pay return shipping if you avail yourself of the service. Maybe amazon would allow a way around this. Should be plenty of dealers in Cleveland and Pittsburgh to be practical. A bit farther near Akron is Hartville Tool . They're a huge Festool dealer, as well as lots o other goodies.

[Steve Jenkins]

If you have a big compressor take a look at Dynabrade.

[Mark Bolton]

You yourself a favor and just go with an Airvantage 5" DC brushless. You will wonder why you ever bothered with any of the 120v corded sanders. Smooth, fast, vibration free, super compact footprint, variable speed, paddle, it will likely be the best sander youve ever owned. Just pick your orbit.

These sander roast any AC corded sander out there hands down.

https://smile.amazon.com/AirVANTAGE-Palm-Style-industrial-alimentaci%C3%B3n-CENTRAL-VACUUM/dp/B07HYL5RJK/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=airvantage+5%22&qid=1597262850&sr=8-7

[Michael Drew]

I'm beginning to think I collect ROS's...... I have the DWE6423K, a Rigid, a couple PC's, two Bosch's. I just bought the second Bosch (ROS65VC), after reading some comments on this site about how it doesn't vibrate, and has great dust collection. It does have terrific dust collection, but "no vibration"? Neh - it's about the same as my Dewalt. It's also bigger, clunkier to use. I hardly ever reach for it unless I know I'm about to make a lot of dust, so I then take the time to set up a vacuum. But - for all around ease of use, the Dewalt is the one I reach for.

[Mark Bolton]

. It's also bigger, clunkier to use.

Thats why you need to move to the electric dynabrade envelope. With the collection of sanders you have you could likely have bought a couple of 5" or a 5" and a 6" and they would likely be the last two sanders you'd ever own (unless you wanted more to not have to swap grits lol).

[Jim Becker]

I agree with this. I replaced my old PC with a Festool and the vibration reduction alone was worth it. If I actually used these things more often, it'd have been worth much more to me. Ergonomically it's much better than my PC ever was, the dust collection is far superior too.

Vibration was the primary reason for my switch years ago...my hands were going numb with the PC sanders even if I wore gel filled gloves.

[Michael Drew]

Thats why you need to move to the electric dynabrade envelope. With the collection of sanders you have you could likely have bought a couple of 5" or a 5" and a 6" and they would likely be the last two sanders you'd ever own (unless you wanted more to not have to swap grits lol).

I have no idea what that is. Link?

[Mark Bolton]

I have no idea what that is. Link?


Look back to post 14. Its handy to read all the previous posts when you post. Lots of juicy information buried in the other responses :):D

[Erik Loza]

Vibration was the primary reason for my switch years ago...my hands were going numb with the PC sanders even if I wore gel filled gloves.

I'm rocking an old Craftsman (which works great for my needs). Then, I got to use one my customer's Festools and was like, "Wow, how smooth!".

Erik

[Jim Becker]

I'm rocking an old Craftsman (which works great for my needs). Then, I got to use one my customer's Festools and was like, "Wow, how smooth!".

Erik
Yea, whether it's Festool or another brand higher end tool, they definitely work smoother and with less vibration. I can sand "all day" without numbness, although I certainly would get tired for obvious reasons. Before for getting the better tool in my hand...a half hour was painful.

[Mark Bolton]

Then, I got to use one my customer's Festools and was like, "Wow, how smooth!"

Have you had your hands on a a DC brushless dynabrade type sander? Even the Festools are an utter joke with regards to smooth/operator fatigue, weight, speed, and so on. They are not going to out-hog a Rotex or the better Bosh/Makita Dual mode hogging sander but the footprint/envelope/speed for day to day work they are insane. 8 hours straight of non stop sanding, while not fun, is not all that bad.

[Erik Loza]

Yea, whether it's Festool or another brand higher end tool, they definitely work smoother and with less vibration. I can sand "all day" without numbness, although I certainly would get tired for obvious reasons. Before for getting the better tool in my hand...a half hour was painful.

I definitely found myself taking regular breaks last time I was doing a batch of pine shelves. One of those things were you never notice it until you use something better.


Have you had your hands on a a DC brushless dynabrade type sander? Even the Festools are an utter joke with regards to smooth/operator fatigue, weight, speed, and so on. They are not going to out-hog a Rotex or the better Bosh/Makita Dual mode hogging sander but the footprint/envelope/speed for day to day work they are insane. 8 hours straight of non stop sanding, while not fun, is not all that bad.

Not yet, unfortunately. I always look forward to seeing that stuff at the big shows like IWF but of course, that got canceled this year. For most of my customers, it's Festool.

Erik

[Mark Bolton]

IFor most of my customers, it's Festool.

Erik

Pull the.pin on a couple (if your allowed to) and i guarantee you you'll change your customers world. But if channeled distribution and controlling the offering is an issue that's understood. We had a hard time putting our hands on surfprep, Mirka, and now airvantage, for those reasons. Im shocked festfool hasn't poached this by now but undoubtedly their version would be $1000 for a sander that would never sell so they've done the math.

This envelope is far and away better than anything on the market.

[Michael Drew]

Look back to post 14. Its handy to read all the previous posts when you post. Lots of juicy information buried in the other responses :):D

The term you used "electric dynabrade envelope" is what confused me, and inspired my question. I have not heard that before. Sounds like sales jargon?

[Dave Sabo]

Mark - methinks thou dost protest too much. Please register as a dynabrade salesman or disclose that you already are. Hope those power supplies don't have the same problems Mira's had when they came out .

Lisa - forget about that sander. It's outa your price range by 50% and it doesn't have noticably less vibration that the festool despite what Mark says. It also has a very different switch than you've seen before, which you may or may not like. Dealers are practically non existent, the co. is fairly new with little to no track record and they don't even have a complete or accurate website. They still think they're going to IWF and SEMA - which have been cancelled for a good while now. Waste of time for you.

Also, forget about the crazy suggestion to get an air powered sander. Even more ludicrous for your situation. Roughly the same as thinking you need a sander to run 8 hours a day.

Fellas, get a clue and stop pushing your own agendas if you really want to help.

[Mark Bolton]

The term you used "electric dynabrade envelope" is what confused me, and inspired my question. I have not heard that before. Sounds like sales jargon?

No idea on jargon. Juat that there is finally an electric option in pretty much the identical form of the go-to industry standard for sanding that doesn't require the cost of manufacturing miles of expensive air. Made the switch lobf ago and wish we'd been able to do it sooner.

Close to the work, lowest fatigue, fast, quiet, no comparison.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I'm more than happy with my Bosch ROS65VC-6 ROS. I bought the renewed version for $160 and it was in brand new condition. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to post where I bought it but I'm pretty sure a quick google search will find it.
I also had the Dewalt 5" ROS. This Bosch is an entirely higher level unit than the Dewalt. There's virtually no sanding dust with it connected to my dust collection system. I'm using the Abranet sanding discs which provide great results and allow for air flow to make the dust collection work wonderfully.
I compared it against the Festool offering. I'm sure the Festool is nice (I did try it out at my local woodworking store). But the Bosch is extremely hard to beat at the price I purchased it for especially compared to the Festool.
I'm really happy with the 6" version as well. It provides more coverage which speeds up sanding substantially (1.44x coverage area increase).

[Bobby Robbinett]

The best budget sander on the market is the Porter Cable 382. I made the switch to the Festool Rotex and it’s the best sander that fits my needs. Almost just as good as the Festool Rotex is the duel mode Bosch. Don’t bother with the other Bosch sanders as every one that I have tried are basically lightweight finish sanders and won’t remove even simple cross grain scratches from a wide belt sander on softwoods let alone hardwoods. The duel mode Bosch is excellent. The AirVantage linked on a previous post are very nice too. Mirka is the best in my opinion.

[lowell holmes]

I am fond of Lee Valley, I bet Rob Lee can help you and you will not be disappointed.

[Lisa Starr]

Well, with a little research yesterday afternoon, I ordered the Festool from Hartville Tool thru Amazon at 3:00. Amazingly, it arrived a bit before 9:00 this morning! So far, I'm very happy with the choice. The grip is definitely smaller than the Dewalt making it more comfortable for me to hold. I sanded a couple of scraps with the Dust Collector bag in place and it seemed to do an okay job. I'll probably hook it up to the dust collection after I locate the appropriate adapters. The vibration seems to be less also. Now I'm off to locate paper/mesh/pads etc. Again, thank you everyone for your input.

[Mark Bolton]

Please register as a dynabrade salesman or disclose that you already are. Hope those power supplies don't have the same problems Mira's had when they came out .

No salesman here just a happy user since the old Mirka's. Have two Ceros from the beginning that have had the guts run out of them with zero issues whatsoever. The AirVantage is pretty much the identical machine to what 3M was offering in their electric Dynabrade offering (before they stopped offering electrics) and pretty much identical to Surfprep. No different than anything they likely all come out of the same factory but built to whatever spec'd price point but none the less absolutely everyone who has ever come into my shop running anything from Festool to home center model sanders is mind blown at the speed, smoothness, low noise, and pretty much zero dust. Operator fatigue with your palm as close to the work as reasonably possible is almost nothing. When there is a ton of sanding going on and with only two Ceros' in the shop you can imagine the scramble for who gets one and who has to pull an old school ROS out of the cabinet.

The switch is absolutely nothing and you can toggle it from variable to simply on/off or any max speed range you choose to pre-set if you wish. We rarely run the paddle in the variable mode because its electric and doesnt have the hard feedback like a dynabrade does with air pressure against the paddle.

Unlike the Mirka, the AirVantage is far more affordable and not a heck of a lot more than any of the ultra high end conventional sanders and I will guarantee you the day you get your hands on one youll either say you dont like it in spite, or slink off and buy one lol... They are a game changer.

I have zero connection to any tool and rarely praise much in the way of tools but these sanders are literally game changing when your sanding for many hours a day or at a time.

But thanks for the feedback :p

[Dave Sabo]

Huh ?

Perhaps more specificity is in order, lowell .


I'll probably hook it up to the dust collection after I locate the appropriate adapters.

We can help with that too. Tell us what vacuum you’ll be using, but this pretty much is the go to hose nowadays for value, compatibility, and performance:

https://www.amazon.com/Cen-Tec-Systems-94192-Multi-Brand-Collection/dp/B07NZZZ5ZL/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=XUcNUf02YvD1aZdPBerUAQ&hsa_cr_id=7055508430001&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0


You may find this useful too:
https://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Etoolcity-Technology-Overload-Eliminating/dp/B07YK9VBQK





Mark , you make some good points. They just aren’t really germane to a low use homeowner on a hobby budget.

[Mark Bolton]

homeowner on a hobby budget.

Festool, in any way, shape, or form, is far far from a what has ever been considered a homeowner/hobby budget even though I know OP stated hopes to stay under 200. The AirVantage is 319.00. Other than the uber low end Festool 319 is far less than any of Festools higher end sanders (running all the way up to 600+).

Once your out of the big box $49-$129 category, forget about the leap to Festool, its a different ball game.

My point is that she already mentioned "the big C". So a bump of $120 to spend on a sander when your having wrist/pain/surgery issues, is an absolute no brainer though its understood if the money isnt there it just isnt there. When they were up in the 499-699 range, yeah.. no dice. As opposed to wrist surgery or having to forego the hobby? Id pull the pin on the smoothest most ergonomic sander I could.

[Erik Loza]

...The AirVantage is 319.00...

"BUT", customers will need a decently sized air compressor to use it and perhaps don't want to deal with the noise. So, it's not necessarily as straightforward as just the price of that unit. For the OP, I think electric is the way to go. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[mike stenson]

So now I'm lost. I need to spend $319 on an pneumatic powered sander, and then make sure I have enough air to power it to save on the $200 festool ETS 125?

[Lisa Starr]

Mark - My "Big C" isn't carpel tunnel, but rather Cancer. I'm twice now in remission, but the second go around involved a stem cell transplant. I'll never recover from the fatigue induced by the uber chemotherapy required with that procedure. That's fine, but the tools that make the most of my stamina are "the best" for me. In this case, the little $200 Festool fits my needs and my budget.

[Mark Bolton]

"BUT", customers will need a decently sized air compressor to use it and perhaps don't want to deal with the noise. So, it's not necessarily as straightforward as just the price of that unit. For the OP, I think electric is the way to go. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

Nope, Its a DC brushless electric. Thats the point. No air, and compared to any "normal" sander they are silky silent. That was why I asked if you'd been able to get your hands on one. Mirka, Surfprep, Airvantage, 3M had the exact AirVantage on their sheet (for a ton more money of course) for a while.

I would never run air sanders in my shop. To loud, manufacturing clean dry air is too expensive.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark - My "Big C" isn't carpel tunnel, but rather Cancer

Ahh, I guess I should have thought of carpel tunnel as "the little c" :rolleyes: One of my major moves to these sanders way back when was because I had an employee who had Carpel Tunnel issues in a past job and part of his job was a lot of sanding and I greatly feared a workers comp claim so a batch of sanders wast cheap insurance. Again, full time shop or hobby, it was painful but as with any investment once the bandaid is ripped you wonder why you hadnt done it sooner. I would never, will never, go back to conventional sanders but happy you found a sander upgrade regardless.

[Erik Loza]

Nope, Its a DC brushless electric. Thats the point. No air, and compared to any "normal" sander they are silky silent. That was why I asked if you'd been able to get your hands on one. Mirka, Surfprep, Airvantage, 3M had the exact AirVantage on their sheet (for a ton more money of course) for a while.

I would never run air sanders in my shop. To loud, manufacturing clean dry air is too expensive.

I see now. Saw the paddle on top and assumed it was pneumatic. Gott'a try one of these out.

Erik

[Mark Bolton]

Gott'a try one of these out. Erik

Game changers for us.

[Mark Bolton]

So now I'm lost. I need to spend $319 on an pneumatic powered sander, and then make sure I have enough air to power it to save on the $200 festool ETS 125?

Its not pneumatic. Its DC brushless, quiet, smooth, fast, read,.. I would never pay the cost to manufacture clean dry air for an air dynabrade. Not to mention 319 dollars would be a total rape job. You can buy decent quality air dynabrades with no DC option for like $100 bucks.

[Frank Martin]

I had no idea these existed. I changed most of my sanders to Mirka Deros and Deos models. They are substantially better than the Festool versions they replaced, although even more expensive than Festool. If these are like the Mirka offerings at a significantly lower price, they may be a winner. I love Mirka sanders for being very light, very ergonomic, low vibration and excellent dust collection.

[Mark Bolton]

I had no idea these existed. I changed most of my sanders to Mirka Deros and Deos models. They are substantially better than the Festool versions they replaced, although even more expensive than Festool. If these are like the Mirka offerings at a significantly lower price, they may be a winner. I love Mirka sanders for being very light, very ergonomic, low vibration and excellent dust collection.

Smart man...... (Dave Sabo edit.. I have no affiliation with Mirka, nor Frank Martin, and am not a salesman nor representative for either entity and am just posting my personal experience)

[Jim Becker]

Lisa, congrats on your new sander! Enjoy! And yes...it will perform even better hooked up to dust extraction...you'll want to adjust the air flow down as you move up to finer and finer grits, either with the vac if it has that capability or with a bleeder on the hose if not. And the center hole is critical for optimum dust extraction and longer abrasive life.

[mike stenson]

Its not pneumatic. Its DC brushless, quiet, smooth, fast, read,.. I would never pay the cost to manufacture clean dry air for an air dynabrade. Not to mention 319 dollars would be a total rape job. You can buy decent quality air dynabrades with no DC option for like $100 bucks.

Yea, I was confused from the previous posts :) Thanks for taking the time to clear it up!

[Bobby Robbinett]

That design of the AirVantage is the best that I have came across. I had the opportunity to play with a similar clone of that design at a wood working show a while back. Absolutely the most comfortable and smooth sander I have ever used. Way more comfortable than the Festool Rotex, which is what I use at home and work. Does anyone make one in that style (DC brushless with the handle on top) that will remove stock as aggressively as the Festool Rotex? If so, I would probably buy one today.

[Michael Drew]

Its not pneumatic. Its DC brushless, quiet, smooth, fast, read,.. I would never pay the cost to manufacture clean dry air for an air dynabrade. Not to mention 319 dollars would be a total rape job. You can buy decent quality air dynabrades with no DC option for like $100 bucks.

I see they offer the sander you linked to with 3/16 and 3/32 hook and loop pads. I gotta admit, I don't even know what all my other ROS's have, but I do replace pads from time to time. What do you (or anyone) recommend? I think I'm going to buy one of these sanders...... I'm a tool junkie.

[Mark Bolton]

I see they offer the sander you linked to with 3/16 and 3/32 hook and loop pads. I gotta admit, I don't even know what all my other ROS's have, but I do replace pads from time to time. What do you (or anyone) recommend? I think I'm going to buy one of these sanders...... I'm a tool junkie.

The 3/16 orbit would be your standard sander for day to day wood sanding. 3/32 would be a finish room sander (de-nib, scuff sanding clears between coats, or for super fine sanding work, uber hardwoods being sanded to super meticulous finish)

Hook and loop or PSA is your preference. You cant really get anything truely flat with hook and loop but most use it. We switch out to PSA pads if we need something super flat like high gloss cherry, trying to get oak flat, etc.

[Dave Sabo]

Smart man...... (Dave Sabo edit.. I have no affiliation with Mirka, nor Frank Martin, and am not a salesman nor representative for either entity and am just posting my personal experience)


You should probably start a new thread on the most bestus, wondrous sanders that folks may like. Because in this case your personal experience wasn't germane to the OP's question. She said as much, and even voted with her pocketbook.

It also goes to show that you're assumption about what's within a hobbyist budget was in error too. Clearly there's interest in this product base on comments in this thread - hence my suggestion to start a new one. But in this instance your experience/advice comes across as a smarmy sales weasel pitch. The kind that doesn't listen to the customer's needs and just wants to push his own agenda. What's great for you , wasn't great for Lisa because your product didn't meet at least half of her criteria. You tried (in vain) what most weasels that can't figure out they have no sale do: tried to convince the mark, um, I mean customer, that they should really want something else. Seems you also assumed that if their budget was "x" that they'd surely spend "x times 1.5 " if you were simply persuasive enough.

A new thread would be a good place to discus the difference between all these clones because the price range is sizeable.

[Mark Bolton]

You should probably start a new thread on the most bestus, wondrous sanders that folks may like. Because in this case your personal experience wasn't germane to the OP's question. She said as much, and even voted with her pocketbook.

My "germane" contribution was that when youve bought two _less than stellar_ RO's, youve bought the AirVantage. Its simply that simple. Its not a sales pitch, its simply that you go to the home center, you buy the best sander they "seem to have" on the shelf, you spend $100 bucks, you find out its a dud, then you buy a second sander that is "supposedly" a better upgrade for $200, and low and behold... where are you at? Even if the two purchases came before its a rip the bandaid off situation and just do it. Again, cash isnt there, well... but its a rip the bandaid. Do me a favor dude, stop running your mouth and buy one.. I guarantee you it will be crickets... or you will lie and say it sucks.



The kind that doesn't listen to the customer's needs and just wants to push his own agenda

I actually did post with regards to the customers needs, fatigue. Hence my contribution to (as painful as it is) spend a little more and be done with it. As I said to you in a past post, had these sanders been 500-600 dollars in the past I would never have made such a suggestion. But at 319, they are a considerable option.

As has been stated in_this_thread "hobbyists" buy 3, 4, 5, 8, sanders.. breathing abhorrent amounts of dust, dealing with insane amounts of fatigue due to vibration, slow sanding, whatever. And to say that "budget" is not "germane" is utter foolishness. Some down-the-liner reads this and says "I want to buy my first and last sander".. its dead-on-B***S germane. And its dead on b***s germane here.


You tried (in vain) what most weasels that can't figure out they have no sale do: tried to convince the mark,

Dude, you need some serious help.

[Bradley Gray]

Mark,

I, for one appreciate your experience based thoughts. $300 bucks isn't a huge amount for a pro quality tool. Next time I need a new sander I will surely take your advice - Thanks!

[Mark Bolton]

Mods... please do not do something goofy like lock this thread.

[Clifford McGuire]

This checks all your boxes. Sort of. The paper you have won't be as effective because the hole patters will be different. I'd suggest selling it on and use the correct paper or mesh abrasives.
https://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanding-and-brushing/random-orbital-sander/574993---ets-125-req-plus-usa

This also checks a lot of boxes and might use the paper you have on hand. More $$$, and hard to find, but can use a 6" pad too !. Which you might find useful. It will also require you to re-learn -or- adjust how you hold a sander.

https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/random-orbit-sanders-ros65vc-5-29852-p/

I still prefer that festool ,and would suggest going that route with some diablo mesh disks from the depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-Diablo-5-in-SandNet-Coated-Assorted-Disc-50-Pack-DND050ASTH50P/311196042

I bought the ETS125 but it doesn't do a good job of removing much wood. I think it will be fine for finish sanding, but I need an all-around sander. I was also hoping to keep the budget to around $200.

[Mark Bolton]

I bought the ETS125 but it doesn't do a good job of removing much wood. I think it will be fine for finish sanding, but I need an all-around sander. I was also hoping to keep the budget to around $200.

You'll never find both in one sander. The Bosch dual mode from CPO is your best option.

[Clifford McGuire]

You'll never find both in one sander. The Bosch dual mode from CPO is your best option.

My Milwaukee served me well for 10+ years. I didn't know there was such a thing as specialty ROS until I bought the Festool.

[lowell holmes]

Go to the toy stores, Home Depot and Lowes, pick them up and decide which one you want. That's how I do it.

[Jim Becker]

Go to the toy stores, Home Depot and Lowes, pick them up and decide which one you want. That's how I do it.

The challenge with that is that mass market stores tend to only sell mass market tools, not the more specialty and higher end/higher quality tools. These places sell on price and there are sometimes good reasons that price isn't the primary driver. When it comes to sanders, that's the case with me. My hands and joints require that I have as little vibration as possible as the number one requirement. The number two requirement is quality and features like optimum dust extraction. Price pretty much comes in last place, even if I have to wait an extra month or two to acquire what I need for financial reasons.

[Frank Pratt]

The challenge with that is that mass market stores tend to only sell mass market tools, not the more specialty and higher end/higher quality tools. These places sell on price and there are sometimes good reasons that price isn't the primary driver.

That's a true fact. Actually, I don't ever recall getting a power tool in the last 20 years or so at a big box store. I get higher quality & better pricing if I watch the sales at dedicated tools stores or industrial suppliers.

[Andy D Jones]

Wow, how did we get off on this exit to Snobbyville?

Almost all of my cordless tools, and my router, (all Milwaukee) were purchased at Home Depot. They are all excellent tools. For me. Just be cause these tools have a bigger market, doesn't mean they are inferior, or worse, unsuitable, for the rest of us.

This thread seems to have turned into "Who can justify spending more for a power tool than anyone else?" I'm sure those choices are good ones, but not necessarily the best ones for all members here, especially for those that don't make a living with their woodworking, yet strive to do the best work they can, within their respective budgets.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[mike stenson]

I think it's probably time to just lock this thread ;)

[Rick Potter]

Before they do, let me make my request once again.

I suggest a simple way to distinguish hobbyists from professionals. It could be as simple as another line under the 'member' or 'contributor' designation.

This would allow both groups to not waste time getting involved in a simple hobbyist question, or a professional discussion.

Another thing to consider is having a 'Pro's Corner', for involved discussions.

OR: Just tell me to get off my soapbox.

[mike stenson]

You didn't read the original posters question, which enumerated a very specific conditional requirement. One that isn't very common in consumer grade tools, as operation without vibration and improved ergonomics are not generally a concern in that demographic.

That is why there was the recommendation for tools that are generally sold at tool supply places.

[lowell holmes]

If you contact the Lee Valley site, you will get specificity. Rob Lee often responds to questions.

[Mike Henderson]

I wasn't following this thread but read it this morning. The AirVantage people are not far from my house - I drive by it when I go to my niece's place. I'll stop by and look at them next time I pass their place. Thanks for the reference - I had not heard of them before.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

You didn't read the original posters question, which enumerated a very specific conditional requirement. One that isn't very common in consumer grade tools, as operation without vibration and improved ergonomics are not generally a concern in that demographic.

That is why there was the recommendation for tools that are generally sold at tool supply places.

This was what I was just going to point out. The OP had specific requirements.

[Frank Pratt]

Wow, how did we get off on this exit to Snobbyville?

Almost all of my cordless tools, and my router, (all Milwaukee) were purchased at Home Depot. They are all excellent tools. For me. Just be cause these tools have a bigger market, doesn't mean they are inferior, or worse, unsuitable, for the rest of us.

This thread seems to have turned into "Who can justify spending more for a power tool than anyone else?" I'm sure those choices are good ones, but not necessarily the best ones for all members here, especially for those that don't make a living with their woodworking, yet strive to do the best work they can, within their respective budgets.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

I don't think it's in "Snobbyville", people are just expressing their valid opinions & experience. It's just a fact that there are places that have better quality choices than the big box retailers. Nobody said that you can't get good stuff there. If it meets your needs, that's great.

And as far as justification for spending more money, my point was that I can get better pricing elsewhere, which is why I don't buy power tools there.

I don't make my living, or any earnings, from woodworking. That's why I have to get the most bang for my buck.

[Larry Frank]

Everybody makes their own choices depending on a set of factors. For me the edge and vibration are at the very top. I have wrist and hand issues and the Festool works great for my needs. With a sander you have to get it in your hand and try it.

[Dave Sabo]

If you contact the Lee Valley site, you will get specificity. Rob Lee often responds to questions.


Enough with the Lee Valley sales pitches already ! :rolleyes:



You try and steer everyone their way on practically every thread you comment in. Including this one a while back. Lisa has already made her choice and has the sander in hand. ANd much faster than Rob & Co. could have delivered to her.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I'm a hobbyist.

When someone asks about a tool, although some of the suggestions might not exactly meet the needs of the OP, I like to see diversity and options that are available for this type of tool, regardless of price.

Many times, I'm not even aware some of these tools or brands exist. This lets me do a bit of research and then make a decision if this meets my needs or budget.

So although many of the responses probably don't meet or target the OP, it does help broaden the knowledge of many of us on this forum.

Thank you all.

P.S. I have PC and Makita (big box sanders). I don't think I've used any of these since I bought a couple of Festool sanders.

[Dave Sabo]

I actually did post with regards to the customers needs, fatigue. Hence my contribution to (as painful as it is) spend a little more and be done with it. As I said to you in a past post, had these sanders been 500-600 dollars in the past I would never have made such a suggestion. But at 319, they are a considerable option.


Well..........................not really. $319 is more that $200. So, while your sander may be good and wonderful, it didn't meet Lisa's criteria. By that same token I could make a case that the Mirka on which your sander was copied, uh, I mean based would be a considerable option too. It's just a bit more money than yours, from the company that designed the product in the first place.

And what If Lisa didn't like the ergonomics that you do so much? Not everyone cottons to the paddle switch design or likes a tail heavy sander. Does AA offer a no question money back guarantee like festool, bosch, dewalt ? What is AA's warranty? They can't even communicate something as simple as that with customers because their website is lacking. It might be a good option for some folks, just not the person who started this discussion.

And if you don't believe me - why don't you ask her ?

[Jim Dwight]

My favorite sander does not meet the OP's spec, it is a Bosch DEVS1250 which is a handfull for even my extra large hands. It is best used two handed and with two hands, a smaller person could use it easily, I think. The reason I like it is it is fast. It has a "turbo" mode that removes material very quickly and even in the ROM it is fast due to a 5mm orbit (working from memory, might be 5/32 or something, point is it is bigger than most). While trying to check my memory on the stroke, I discovered there is now a 5 inch version of this sander : https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Power-Tools-Aggressive-Woodworking/dp/B07XF1XBP2/ref=asc_df_B07WK42NC5/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385272107002&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12587900931732792187&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010378&hvtargid=pla-826243574532&ref=&adgrpid=78829231656&th=1. I do not remember the type of 5 inch paper she has but it might be an option but I think it might exceed her cost target a little too, both Boschs are close to $300.

But my main reason to post is to suggest the OP consider what she needs to do and review the detailed specs for sanders to arrive at her choice. I also have a little DeWalt 5 inch that I sometimes use when I am not trying to remove material quickly, like to scuf poly before another coat. It has about half the orbit diameter of the Bosch and no turbo mode so it is a bit painful to use to sand a large project. But I wouldn't want to use the big Bosch to scuf poly. It is too aggressive. Orbit diameter is a big deal in determining the aggressiveness of the sander in removing material. Bit orbit means faster material removal.

My other tip is with respect to the Bosch I like which is somewhat similar to Festool's Rotex. I find it removes material MUCH quicker on the side with the motor (were the weight is). I took more than I wanted off a drawer side trying to make the sander remove material on the other side of the sander ignoring what it was doing on the motor side. In turbo mode, it removes material about as fast as a belt sander - so you need to respect that and be aware it isn't even across the pad.

[Mike Henderson]

I'm a hobbyist.

When someone asks about a tool, although some of the suggestions might not exactly meet the needs of the OP, I like to see diversity and options that are available for this type of tool, regardless of price.

Many times, I'm not even aware some of these tools or brands exist. This lets me do a bit of research and then make a decision if this meets my needs or budget.

So although many of the responses probably don't meet or target the OP, it does help broaden the knowledge of many of us on this forum.

Thank you all.

These are my feelings, exactly. I'm glad Mark pointed out the AirVantage. I had never heard of it but I'll look into it now.

Mike

[Andy D Jones]

And to add insult to snobbery, now we have a suggestion to visually segregate the unwashed from the washed...

I'm pretty good at reading subject or the first post or two to figure out if a thread is one I want to finish reading, or even respond to, without stars, crosses, crescents or other badges to guide me.

I believe we all have plenty we can learn from one another on this forum. We just need to recognize that some of the needs of the different "classes" of woodworkers are different.

Even though I am an amateur, and seldom make more than a couple of anything beyond a trivial stocking stuffer, the (retired) engineer in me still appreciates discussions about larger shops, better tools and more efficient techniques than I am likely to acquire or know.

But when the discussion includes budgetary constraints that rule out the best tool on earth, available only from the most blessed purveyors, somehow the wheels seem to come off.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[mike stenson]

I give up.

[Frank Pratt]

If I ask for advice on a tool purchase and list my desired features, I would hope that the suggestions were all over the map, icluding suggestions that are far outside my stated parameters. Otherwise, I may never learn of other great products with features that may have been overlooked.

[Mark Bolton]

Well..........................not really. $319 is more that $200

Irregardless of the OP, anyone (well maybe not anyone, but anyone with some future foresight) would see that $200 for the Festool, plus whatever sanders one lumbers through prior to.. equals the 300+ number. Thats been my repeated point. We all lumber through with "this will be ok for what I do", etc.. only to find we soon have a pile of sanders in the drawer that likely cost $1000.00+ when we supposedly only had $xx to spend. I could snap you a photo of the sander cab in the shop. Its sick.

Convenient place to come from (and I still have a long way to go) but I would hope to save someone a stubbed toe or a pile of long ball cash if it were possible. A long standing mantra in my life has been to learn from others mistakes and not fight to have to learn them for myself. Call me an idiot.

Likely not the OP, but information is information. If you seek to control/constrain information I guess you should be looking to a future in politics or something but you wont find me in your camp. Free flow of information is imperative to growth whether hobby or otherwise.


By that same token I could make a case that the Mirka on which your sander was copied, uh, I mean based would be a considerable option too.

Again, these are not "my sanders". These are not even "my preferred sanders". I would much prefer more of the original Mirka Cero's we are currently running for perhaps 6-7 years though they have been discontinued for the Deros which, for the tail heavy reason you mention (though many I know personally love them) we have not purchased. You need to get your facts straight or learn to not speak of that which you have no knowledge. The Air Vantage envelope (which I believe the Mirka Ceros' we currently have were the initial incantation though made by whom I have no care nor idea) is far and away the most compact and balanced envelope out there (hence the unanimous comparison to the industry standard... Dynabrade). I would much rather prefer the Mirka for many of the reasons you mention. That said, the Mirka's were a $500-$650 sander (very painful). No different than Festool, you cover your 100% satisfaction policy by burying it in the cost of goods.

Again, as Ive said, if the Mirka Cero's were the option at 500-600 it would be off the table and even brutal for a small shop like mine. But at 319, game changer.

I have no idea what AirVantage's customer satisfaction policy is but in this day and age pretty much everyones customer satisfaction policy is Amazons customer satisfaction policy and if the vendor doesnt like it tough luck they will eat it, or Amazon will. So that would be the least of my concern. Order one and run it for a job and return it and you'd likely get a full refund. Heck people buy and wear shoes, clothes, underwear, and return it. Im not sure what your concern would be but I really dont care.

I feel for you man... Its a lonely life beating yourself against the rocks. Dont know how you guys do it. Order a couple extra bottles of tum's on your next Amazon... Gosh,.. and Im the grumpy one lol. Its done dude.. If you want to control the free flow of information go get a job at F*x News.