Installing cabinets on an out of plumb wall.

[Gabriel Marusic]

I'm wrapping up my cabinet carcass construction and was about to start installing the uppers on the wall but when I went to check the wall for plumb it was pretty far out and made me pause to consider the best path forward. I ended up deciding to take down the sheetrock entirely as it's a laundry area with very loose ductwork that made me nervous and I needed to relocate and install new outlets. I'm glad I did that because somewhere in the past someone literally cut about a foot section out of one of the studs without re-bracing it and the duct was basically just pressed between the wall and being held up to the next connection by duct tape.

The studs are about 1/2" out of plumb over 8 feet and I'm not sure what the best path forward is to resolve the plumbness issue and a new issue with the duct. The washer dryer were added to the condo well after it was built and they put 4 inch duct pipe in between the walls. Not a big deal usually as that stuff can compress a bit but these studs are barely 3" at the widest and its compressing the duct too much behind the wall.

I've been researching different options and am mulling using furring strips that I'd nail into the studs to get around another inch on the wall and give myself room for the duct and fix the plumbness. Is this a good idea given that I have large cabinets being attached to the wall? Am I losing any integrity by having the screw go through the furring strip and into the stud? I planned on using the larger GRK screws that would still sink into the stud at least an inch and a half. Where and how should I actually fix the plumbness issue? Would I use something like a power planer on the furring strips or do it on the studs themselves? Is this even a good approach or is there a better option I haven't considered? Apologies if this thread is a bit off the mark for an acceptable topic here as this is more framing than wood working per se.

[Kevin Jenness]

You're on the right track, although cabinets have been hung on worse walls. Use shims behind the furring strips to get the wall in plane. Screwing through them into the studs is fine as long as you get a good penetration.

[Doug Garson]

You could also sister the out of plumb studs with a new plumb stud and attach the drywall and cabinets to the new studs.

[Gabriel Marusic]

You could also sister the out of plumb studs with a new plumb stud and attach the drywall and cabinets to the new studs.

Definitely an option. Do I need a new stud on either side of the original, or does one suffice? Would I then just use furring strips for the top plate to bring it to level with the new studs?

[Gabriel Marusic]

You're on the right track, although cabinets have been hung on worse walls. Use shims behind the furring strips to get the wall in plane. Screwing through them into the studs is fine as long as you get a good penetration.

Great idea, thank you. Hadn't thought about shimming the actual strips as I was concerned with integrity of them.

[roger wiegand]

I've dealt with some pretty bad walls by hanging a french cleat top and bottom, shimmed out as necessary, level and plumb so that the cabinets hang straight, then dealing with the gaps by either using a molding or scribing a piece to fit. You may well need to deal with the structural issues, but there's often no need to make the wall completely straight and flat. Since I learned about French cleats it's pretty much the only way I hang cabinets. Makes it so easy!

[Jim Becker]

I'd also fir out the wall, both for additional thickness and so you can shim the wall to be plumb vertically. While it's open install blocking to provide additional support for your cabinets so it's easier to mount them without having to hit a stud squarely. (I prefer French Cleats for this anyway, but almost any mounting method can benefit from blocking)

[mike stenson]

Yep, I'd also furr it out. My house is adobe, so nothing is actually plumb (or flat), so all cabinets hang on furred out walls. Then I'd use french cleats ;)

[Steve Rozmiarek]

You could also sister the out of plumb studs with a new plumb stud and attach the drywall and cabinets to the new studs.

This is a LOT easier that cutting wedges. That being said, 1/2" out on an 8' high wall is seriously not worth messing with. If you'd said 2" out of plumb, yes deal with that, but not 1/2". I don't follow the duct issue, is it HVAC or dryer?

[Gabriel Marusic]

I've dealt with some pretty bad walls by hanging a french cleat top and bottom, shimmed out as necessary, level and plumb so that the cabinets hang straight, then dealing with the gaps by either using a molding or scribing a piece to fit. You may well need to deal with the structural issues, but there's often no need to make the wall completely straight and flat. Since I learned about French cleats it's pretty much the only way I hang cabinets. Makes it so easy!

I totally didn't need to take down the drywall knowing what I knew at the time but was like what the hell, why not start from scratch. Learning process for sure. I've never actually heard of french cleats but will look them up. Every wall in the condo is out of plumb and I've got more cabinet projects in my future.

[Gabriel Marusic]

This is a LOT easier that cutting wedges. That being said, 1/2" out on an 8' high wall is seriously not worth messing with. If you'd said 2" out of plumb, yes deal with that, but not 1/2". I don't follow the duct issue, is it HVAC or dryer?

Do I just attach the new studs to the existing ones with screws or is there more to it than that?

It's a dryer issue. Basically the dryer duct was hanging loose in the wall and was only held in place by the wall itself and some duct tape above. I didn't know this before taking down the drywall though, I just knew the duct was really wobbly and wasn't in great shape.

[Tom Bender]

Consider that you may want to clean that duct in the future, you will want it secured.

Only concern I have with french cleats is that they are not secure in a tremor. Just add a couple of screws to fix that.

furr, fir, fur(ther) ?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Do I just attach the new studs to the existing ones with screws or is there more to it than that?

It's a dryer issue. Basically the dryer duct was hanging loose in the wall and was only held in place by the wall itself and some duct tape above. I didn't know this before taking down the drywall though, I just knew the duct was really wobbly and wasn't in great shape.

Yes, you just add a stud beside the existing. The new stud can be notched to go around wires. Start on the top or bottom of existing wall, whichever is leaned furthest in, and use that as your baseline. I use a laser, but a stringline or level also works. Screw the new stud to the side of an existing, to the plumb line and done. You will need to bring the plate out with a spacer to have a drywall nailer, a simple scribe in place off the new studs and rip will take care of that. Yes this is a good time to fix that dryer duct. You really don't want one of those coming apart in the wall cavity.

[Jim Becker]

In addition to what Steve said, if there are any wires or pipes involved, you must also install the protective steel plates over where there are notches to permit them to pass by the add-on studs and if they are missing on the original studs, put them there, too. They are cheap but help you avoid an unfortunate situation if a nail or screw were to penetrate either.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

In addition to what Steve said, if there are any wires or pipes involved, you must also install the protective steel plates over where there are notches to permit them to pass by the add-on studs and if they are missing on the original studs, put them there, too. They are cheap but help you avoid an unfortunate situation if a nail or screw were to penetrate either.

Absolutely, good call Jim.

[Tom M King]

If you sister the studs, set the end ones first. Pull mason's lines as tight as you can get them, near the top, and bottom. Cut several little gauge blocks out of the same piece of plywood. Put gauge blocks under the line on the end studs. Use a gauge block to set all the other studs to that line. You can let the block touch the line, only if it doesn't move the line. DON'T PUSH the Line.

Clamp each stud before screwing it in place. Too many things can happen before the screws go in, if you don't clamp them first.

If you can't pick all straight studs, straighten them with a jointer to start with, since you only need one straight edge.

This should not only give you a plumb wall, but now a perfectly flat one.

I've done similar many times, but never for a 1/2".

[Mike Cutler]

I have a 100 year old house with walls that are out of plumb, and square. Virtually every renovation we've done had required the walls, floors, and celings to be "trued".
I stud out from existing studs. It's really just a lot simpler in the end.
Do as Tom stated and take the time to establish references up front, and set everything accordingly. The time you lose truing a wall, is more than, gained back with an easier install.
I don't know how the codes work where you're at, but for me ,as long as I did not alter any existing structural supports, I did not need a new civil inspection. All "sisters", and "stud outs", had to be the width, or greater, of the existing stud, joist, or rafter.

[Gabriel Marusic]

In addition to what Steve said, if there are any wires or pipes involved, you must also install the protective steel plates over where there are notches to permit them to pass by the add-on studs and if they are missing on the original studs, put them there, too. They are cheap but help you avoid an unfortunate situation if a nail or screw were to penetrate either.

Thank you for the reminder, I do have some romex running through the studs.

[Rod Sheridan]

I've dealt with some pretty bad walls by hanging a french cleat top and bottom, shimmed out as necessary, level and plumb so that the cabinets hang straight, then dealing with the gaps by either using a molding or scribing a piece to fit. You may well need to deal with the structural issues, but there's often no need to make the wall completely straight and flat. Since I learned about French cleats it's pretty much the only way I hang cabinets. Makes it so easy!

Agreed, French Cleats are great.....Rod

[Thomas McCurnin]

Me? I wouldn't touch those walls. 1/2" top to bottom is nothing and won't ever be seen. The French Cleat is great for hanging uppers where the upper is not supported by anything. I usually find them more trouble than its worth, so I just inset a piece of 1/2" ply between the studs and cover the area with drywall, then use scrap 2x4s to build a support for the uppers, if otherwise unsupported, often called a dead man. Then screw into the drywall and the ply.

If the drywall is off, +1 on steel plates for protecting water, electrical lines etc. Make a note where they are so you don't try screwing through them.

[Brice Rogers]

In addition to what others have said, I'd recommend watching a couple of videos for installing the cabinets. There are a few tricks and things that will help you end up with a better result. I helped a friend put up cabinets in his workshop and we didn't know about the tricks. It made the project more difficult and we ended up with a mediocre result. Also, make sure that you have someone else to help you. Although in theory perhaps one person could do it with jacks, ledger boards, etc., having two people really makes things go easier and more safely.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I've dealt with some pretty bad walls by hanging a french cleat top and bottom, shimmed out as necessary, level and plumb so that the cabinets hang straight, then dealing with the gaps by either using a molding or scribing a piece to fit. You may well need to deal with the structural issues, but there's often no need to make the wall completely straight and flat. Since I learned about French cleats it's pretty much the only way I hang cabinets. Makes it so easy!

I am a fan of using a french cleat to do this.