Parf System Question

[tim walker]

The standard drill hole is 20 mm. Approximately 0.787" or slightly larger than 3/4". Will standard bench dogs and accessories fit or will I need to buy the 20 mm benchdogs?

[Mike King]

I believe you will need to buy 20mm stuff.

[Dick Mahany]

The 3/4" bench dogs will have too much slop to be of any use with the 20mm Parf/ Festool MFT type holes. Fortunately there are many 20mm dog options available.

[Jim Becker]

You'll want to invest in 20mm hardware.

As an aside, one reason I also put in accomodations on my benches for 3/4" holes in addition to the 20mm grid is to allow continued used of my "beloved" hold-fasts which require 3/4" holes.

[Dave Sabo]

I'm going to make an unsolicited suggestion - take a look at an alternate jig for making MFT holes.

https://www.taigatools.com/mft-router-template.html

This jig is faster and cheaper and will allow you easily make 3/4" dog holes if that's what you want. Simply switch out your bit. It's won't allow the intermediate holes in the diamond pattern like the Parf, but you'd have to weigh that against the 3/4" option.

[lowell holmes]

Check this out or make some using dowel stock. You will have to go several pages into link that comes up, but you will find flat dos that should work.


https://search.tb.ask.com/search/AJimage.jhtml?&enc=0&n=7867188c&p2=%5ECPO%5Exdm139%5ETTAB03%5Eus&pg=AJimage&pn=1&ptb=D0F8849E-0F01-45FF-A705-A304F967DED8&qs=&searchfor=bench+dog&si=46379845133&ss=sub&st=sb&tpr=sbt&imgs=1p&filter=on&imgDetail=true

[Peter Kelly]

I'm going to make an unsolicited suggestion - take a look at an alternate jig for making MFT holes.

https://www.taigatools.com/mft-router-template.html

This jig is faster and cheaper and will allow you easily make 3/4" dog holes if that's what you want. Simply switch out your bit. It's won't allow the intermediate holes in the diamond pattern like the Parf, but you'd have to weigh that against the 3/4" option.About a thousand times simpler than the Parfit system as well.

[tim walker]

Looks simple enough. Have any of you guys used the Taiga system? I assume I have to purchase the "copy ring" (guide ring). Any issues finding a 30mm copy ring or a 20mm router bit of good quality? That adds to the cost but boy the system looks very simple. And way less expensive.

[tim walker]

I have another question concerning the 30mm guide ring? I have a PC 6931 Plunge router which has three holes in the base. Most of the 30mm plates I have seen have only two hole 180 from each other. Not sure how to connect to base of router.

[Jens Hoffmann]

You'll want to invest in 20mm hardware.

As an aside, one reason I also put in accomodations on my benches for 3/4" holes in addition to the 20mm grid is to allow continued used of my "beloved" hold-fasts which require 3/4" holes.


Out of curiosity, what brand of hold fasts are you using? I have 20mm holes in my workbench top and both my Grammercy and my Black Bear Forge hold fasts are rock solid in the 4" top

[Winston Chang]

I used the Parf system to create a workbench with 20mm holes. I have 3/4" bench dogs made from oak dowel. To get them to fit, I wrapped a bit of masking tape around them. Over time the tape gets scrunched up at the edges and eventually needs to be replaced. I could probably avoid this by using wide tape so that there fewer exposed edges from wrapping, but it hasn't been enough of an annoyance yet to actually do anything.

[tim walker]

There is a video where they use the aluminum HVAC tape. Its nice and wide.

[tim walker]

Out of curiosity, what brand of hold fasts are you using? I have 20mm holes in my workbench top and both my Grammercy and my Black Bear Forge hold fasts are rock solid in the 4" top

Actually dont use them. I am a middle skilled woodworker but am planning on getting there now that we have a new house with a workshop and I have space.

[Mark Carlson]

I'm planning on using my existing MFT top to create the hole pattern in a much bigger assembly top. I'll plunge a smaller hole, then use a flush trim bit to get to 20mm.


About a thousand times simpler than the Parfit system as well.

[Peter Kelly]

Looks simple enough. Have any of you guys used the Taiga system? I assume I have to purchase the "copy ring" (guide ring). Any issues finding a 30mm copy ring or a 20mm router bit of good quality? That adds to the cost but boy the system looks very simple. And way less expensive.Brainfart, I was thinking of the Woodpecker Tools system.
https://www.woodpeck.com/hole-boring-jig-2019.html
Comes complete with guide bushings in either metric or imperial. Woodpeck also sells router bits for these.

[Peter Kelly]

I'm planning on using my existing MFT top to create the hole pattern in a much bigger assembly top. I'll plunge a smaller hole, then use a flush trim bit to get to 20mm.I’ve tried this with varying results. The tiniest bit of slop in the guide bearing will cause the fit to be very loose or too tight. Not easy to get consistent sized holes.

[Jim Becker]

Out of curiosity, what brand of hold fasts are you using? I have 20mm holes in my workbench top and both my Grammercy and my Black Bear Forge hold fasts are rock solid in the 4" top
Gramercy holdfasts in my arsenal. The areas where my 20mm holes are is material only about 25mm thick. The areas where I have .5" holes are in material about 3" thick. I suspect that they would work ok with 20mm holes if my whole bench was "full thickness", but I never tested for that. They don't work with a thin top due to their nature.

438781

[mike stenson]

Yep, this makes sense, you have enough depth for the .95mm (a bit more than 1/32") of extra diameter to not make a difference when the holdfast cocks in the hole.

[tim walker]

Brainfart, I was thinking of the Woodpecker Tools system.
https://www.woodpeck.com/hole-boring-jig-2019.html
Comes complete with guide bushings in either metric or imperial. Woodpeck also sells router bits for these.

So they do ell bioth 20 mm and 3/4". I have no Festool products that use the 20mm holes. If I get a track saw it will most likely be the Makita. Any reason to go with both vs just standard 3/4"?

[Dave Sabo]

Looks simple enough. Have any of you guys used the Taiga system? I assume I have to purchase the "copy ring" (guide ring). Any issues finding a 30mm copy ring or a 20mm router bit of good quality? That adds to the cost but boy the system looks very simple. And way less expensive.

Yes, I have one. Yes you need to source your own 30mm ring. Is it hard to find ? Depends.

The first gen. jig was optimized for the festool routers and their 30mm ring. Ihave the of1010 and it works a treat. Any dealer or online purveyor should have a 30mm ring in stock. The of1400's ring is a stupid design and cannot be adjusted if it is out of center - which some are.

If you have a bosch router with the quick-loc bushings or whatever they call it - a 30mm is available. Difficult to find stateside and ridiculously expensive at $45 from amazon. #2609200142

Trend makes one for their routers, not really a USA option though.

Makita has one for their 3612 plunge router: # 164471-6

Triton makes one for their routers : TGA005 or TGA250 as a complete bushing set.

If you have or want a PC style bushing, I think the only game in town is Milescraft #1278. believe it's direct order only.
Milescraft also makes a quicklock bushing for their baseplate and there is a 30mm version. Not available in USA that I know of though.


Now, all of these bushings are 30mm but some are more 30mm than others. What I'm saying is you may have to take some sandpaper to fit one of these bushing into the taiga's holes as they'll be too tight. The festool is a perfect fit, the milescraft quicklock needed some work. Milescraft's PC style was not available when I did this. No idea on the other's fit.

Taiga may very well have addressed this issue with the current generation., I have an early version that's blue and not "Taiga" branded.

As far as bits. Festool's 20mm is the best. CMT's 20mm is a great budget alternative for a top or two. For 3/4" ??? I'd look for a spiral bit or and endmill. I know you absolutely don't want a 3/4" straight plunge bit.

[Jim Dwight]

I wouldn't call 3/4 holes the standard. I might call it the "old standard". There are a lot of accessories for 20mm holes. Instead of hold fasts, there are quick acting clamps, for instance. Mine are Bessey but Festool makes them too. The only 3/4 inch dogs I can think of are made by Kreg and are plastic, I believe. Plastic is not all bad but I like my aluminum 20mm dogs (I bought Precision dogs). Instead of a MFT, I use rails dogs on my shortest rail and normal dogs for the stock to go against (or a fence which allows stops) to make crosscuts with my track saw. I don't know how you could do that with 3/4 holes. Festool also makes a neat little clamp to hold down work by the edges when you are sanding or something. You could use them to plane too. They work only in 20mm holes.

Long way of saying I think it depends on what other tools you use which type of hole you want. If you have hold fasts, certainly a more long standing idea, you want 3/4 holes. If you like using newer tools like track saws, I think you will want 20mm holes. If you use both, maybe you need both types of holes.

[Peter Kelly]

So they do ell bioth 20 mm and 3/4". I have no Festool products that use the 20mm holes. If I get a track saw it will most likely be the Makita. Any reason to go with both vs just standard 3/4"?Per above, there are a lot more 20mm accessories out there than 3/4" so I’d go that route. Check the Festool forum for more info.


http://festoolownersgroup.com

[Dave Sabo]

I might call it the "old standard".


Nope.

The "old" standard was square or rectangular dog holes. It took forethought to do it right, as after the top is built , they are too difficult and time consuming to be practical.

Also, looooooooooong before festool popularized and made a table with holes chic, there was an American company that had a portable table with holes in it, accessories galore, and was priced reasonable. They had 3/4" holes !

Who remembers these gems ?

https://946e583539399c301dc7-100ffa5b52865b8ec92e09e9de9f4d02.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/20439/4656238.jpg