Shaping a crosscut saw...

[Jeffrey Hood]

I have an old Disston that the teeth were horrendous... (attached) Over the past 9 months or so I have collected quite a few old handsaws, and have had quite a bit of luck with sharpening... no problems filing both crosscut and rip saws and getting them to work well... However, this one I spent a few hours on last night and it's better, but still pretty bad... I had a very difficult time getting the depth of the teeth to be even, and the final result last night was much better than the starting photo, but the teeth are uneven height...

Question is if reshaping a crosscut saw, is it better to just file the teeth to shape *first* with no fleam, and then go back and lightly file in the fleem...? That's what I was going to try tonight, but thought I would ask here first... I was having all kinds of issues trying to file in the fleem and rake at the same time, getting gullets that were uneven and keeping the tooth size even... I don't think that I have to take off all of the teeth and start from scratch, but trying to sharpen it like some of the other crosscut saws that had nicely shaped teeth didn't go so well...

Also, when reshaping using a new file, is it normal to dull one edge on the first overall pass...? I seem to notice on these old saws that I'm restoring that getting the file to "bite" is very difficult on the first pass... kind of like the steel is harder until the file takes the tooth down... that has happened on most of the saws I have restored... on subsequent sharpenings, it is very easy to take light passes to sharpen the teeth... just wondering if that is normal...

438385

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Jeffrey, I’m certainly not the expert but in the course I took about saw sharpening, the first thing I was taught was to joint the teeth (height) before starting the actual sharpening. Could this be any part of the problem?

[lowell holmes]

I took such a saw to Circle Saw in Houston Texas and had the saw re-toothed and it cuts great. I have other saws that I sharpened. You will need a saw vise and tape on patterns to set the tooth spacing. Pick and old junker, make a new tote, add bright saw nuts. You can make patterns on your computer and printer. It will become a favorite saw. I have re-toothed saws with this procedure.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Jeffery, My last saw like this was a bit of a pain.

438428


Question is if reshaping a crosscut saw, is it better to just file the teeth to shape *first* with no fleam, and then go back and lightly file in the fleem...?

Yes, get to the shape you want first. My guess is you have already visited > www.vintagesaws.com < The library has a great primer on saw sharpening.

It looks like you have jointed the saw. It may help to break this into separate problems instead of trying to fix the whole tooth line all at once.

The teeth on the left with one point and one flat would be my first area of engagement. The teeth with the flat tops would be worked on from the back with the aim of deepening the gullet without moving the point of the tooth.

The right most flat top tooth of this line looks clearly to need attention from both sides. This may become evident on other teeth as you work on them.

Any teeth that have not been touched with the jointing file would be left alone.

Once all the flat tops are gone the teeth would be jointed again.

Do this and repeat as needed working only to obtain a balance of tooth size and gullet depth.

When you have a tooth line to your liking, add fleam.

jtk

[Jeffrey Hood]

Thanks... I'll joint it (again) tonight and just work on getting the teeth profiles right, then re-joint and do the final sharpening... it's a beautiful saw and hopefully I can get this right... and it's fun to learn the skill to boot...

JH

[Jim Koepke]

My statement:


The teeth on the left with one point and one flat would be my first area of engagement. The teeth with the flat tops would be worked on from the back with the aim of deepening the gullet without moving the point of the tooth.

This could have been a bit clearer; "without moving the point of the tooth" to the left of the tooth with a flat top.

jtk

[Jeffrey Hood]

got it... thanks...

JH

[Pete Taran]

While you can redo those teeth by hand, a retoother makes short work of an otherwise tedious task. Perfect teeth ready for jointing and filing of fleam. Some folks love that tedium, not me.

[Tom Trees]

Andy Lovelock's "sharpening western saws", is the best video on the subject, its for free, and its on youtube,
I had great success building a similar saw vice and following his methodology.
I really like the big vice and can sit down and rest an elbow on it whilst working.

The last saw I needed to re-tooth,was a wee brass backed one which I chose a 13 TPI configuration for, and made mess of it a few times...
I don't know how I rethoothed a large 9 TPI panel saw by eye after doing this last one.

I don't have the skills to go out making a graph on the computer, but the lines are super helpful, I found out....thankfully, phew!.

I suggest if your having difficulty then get some wide masking tape and stick it close to the top of the plate,
Draw a line down the plate every half inch and it will be a great help to you.

p.s
Here's the link to the youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_MF2Mnxwc

Good luck
Tom

[george wilson]

Your problem is,you are holding the file at an uphill angle while filing. This makes one set of teeth look very shallow on one side. File exactly at right angles to the saw plate,while holding the file at the horizontal angle to make cross cutting type teeth.

This is a very common mistake in filing saw teeth. I have seen tool dealers incorrectly filing saws in their booths this way. Usually I say nothing as I usually get a bunch of indignant comments if I try to tell them how to get correct results. We sharpened hundreds of saws when I was toolmaker in Colonial Williamsburg. We also straightened out bizarre refiling jobs that others had made in attempting to re sharpen saws we had made. So much so,we had to issue an edict that all saws had to be returned to us for re sharpening. We had teeth shaped like bullets,for example.

Your saw would still cut perfectly fin as long as the tips of the teeth were sharp and of the same height,and had equal set. They would just have the "long and short" look.

[Erich Weidner]

While you can redo those teeth by hand, a retoother makes short work of an otherwise tedious task. Perfect teeth ready for jointing and filing of fleam. Some folks love that tedium, not me.

Based on a quick google, it looks like a retoother is not something your average bear would have in their shop?

[george wilson]

Re toothing is something we had to do several times to eliminate the extreme mess others made trying to re sharpen our saws. We didn't like doing it because it eliminated a good hunk of saw width.

This saw as pictured only needs what I described to eliminate the " long tooth short tooth" problem.

[Pete Taran]

Nope, but there are lots of folks that do this sort of thing that do have the right equipment. Plus, there are still a few shops around that will retooth for you.


Based on a quick google, it looks like a retoother is not something your average bear would have in their shop?

[Jeffrey Hood]

Filing at an angle was the problem... I took some time this weekend and reshaped the teeth filing straight across, and got it in much better shape... I futzed up the rake angle, putting way too much rake on, but it does cut well and next time through should be good to go...

Wish I knew someone close to Lancaster PA with a retoother... I have a bunch more saws in similar shape and going through a file a saw is long and tedious...

Thanks for all of the advice...

JH

[mike stenson]

Wish I knew someone close to Lancaster PA with a retoother... I have a bunch more saws in similar shape and going through a file a saw is long and tedious...



Yea, I can currently sympathize. I have a saw I'm currently putting back to 6tpi and refiling in a rip, since that's what I need.. No place locally does it (that I've every found), and let's face it, at least it's keeping me occupied.

[Barney Markunas]

To the OP - you might check to see if Cook's sharpening shop is still operating in York. I think they were trying to sell the business but if they are still up and running, they can probably help you with the retoothing.

[lowell holmes]

If you make a stick with a hole in it, you can insert the file end and control the filing angle with a little practice.
I would practice on a junker saw.

[Jim Koepke]

Nope, but there are lots of folks that do this sort of thing that do have the right equipment. Plus, there are still a few shops around that will retooth for you.

Also when talking with some of the lumber yards in my area they work with a saw sharpening service to have customer's saws sharpened.

If my memory is working the shop doing the sharpening might actually be in Oregon and not Washington. The turn around time can be a week or more depending on the day of drop off, pickup and return.

jtk