Chrome Vanadium blade

[Eric Rathhaus]

I was working on en ECE Primus blade today made of Chrome vanadium. I could not raise a burr even though I was removing metal at the very tip. Anyone had similar experiences?

Eric

[Erich Weidner]

I probably don't have the experience to help with this. But the more experienced hands can probably help.

What sharpening equipment/techniques are you using?

[ken hatch]

Eric,

I have several ECE planes and have never had a problem sharpening their cutters. My questions are: What kind or grit stone are you using to grind? Second is: Are you looking at the bevel and the back with a loupe, 10X or more? I can not think of a time when I could not raise a burr when grinding that I had worked the surface to the edge. It is easy to think you are there and not be.

ken

[Eric Rathhaus]

Hi Ken - I started with 80 micron on a granite block, then 15 micron, then 5 micron. I wasn't looking at the blade but just running my finger along the edge. .

[ken hatch]

Hi Ken - I started with 80 micron on a granite block, then 15 micron, then 5 micron. I wasn't looking at the blade but just running my finger along the edge. .

Eric,

While I'm not fluent in microns I think 80 microns is equal to about a 200 grit stone, 15 microns around 1000, and 5 microns about 4000. Correct me if I'm wrong and forgive me if I'm insulting your intelligence but sharpening should have three stages, grinding, honing, and polishing. One of the stages can sometimes be skipped but most of the time it is good practice to do all three. Both the 80 micron and the 15 micron should be good for grinding, the 5 micron could be used for honing/polishing. Both the 80 micron and the 15 micron films should make a burr that can be felt and seen, if fact if you have reasonable eyes you should be able to see the burr unaided.

Take the cutter and look at it in a strong light, direct sun light is best but a good lamp will work, as you turn the cutter to look at the cutting edge if it is sharp (grind/hone goes to the edge) you should see no reflected light. If you do (i call this "looking back at me") the grind/hone has not gone to the edge and it needs more work. If there is a burr it should look like a black line.

I have some stones that I can not feel the burr, JNAT polishing stones. These films may work the same way but I doubt it with the grinding grits.

Good luck, let us know what you find,

ken

[Warren Mickley]

Hi Ken - I started with 80 micron on a granite block, then 15 micron, then 5 micron. I wasn't looking at the blade but just running my finger along the edge. .
If you have loose grit floating around, it beats up the burr. If burr production is what you want, an oil stone does the best. A stone with a slurry will still produce a burr but it tends to get chewed up.

[Tom M King]

I have a few of those planes. I never feel for a burr anyway, so don't know one way, or the other about a burr. You can get those irons Really sharp though. Sharp enough that the surface they plane will reflect an image, with the right lighting.

[Jim Matthews]

I've got several ECE plane blades marked "Chrome Vanadium". I strop heavily on Chromium Oxide and leather to chase the burr.

My last step (using stones) at each stage is to lay the iron flat on the back, unbeveled side and pull it toward me - to get the burr exposed for the next grit stone.

It often comes off as one long strand.

(As Warren suggests, a coarse India stone and finer Washita are enough to prepare for a strop.)

[Eric Rathhaus]

So I did leave out some of the steps I took I used a 12 micron paper between the 15 micron and 3 micron and then stropped. The edge was reasonably sharp but since I'm using for a jointer, I want a little better edge for more precision. I'll go back through my routine and see if I get better results.

[Tom M King]

To get the reflective planed surfaces, I finish with .5, and .1 micron diamond lapping film (Lee Valley) on a granite surface plate.

[Jim Koepke]

This piece was planed with a blade sharpened on a Norton 8000 water stone:

437654

This is from 2010 so it is likely before my sharpening routine used a strop as much as now.

jtk

[Will Blick]

I never used Chrome vanadium chisels
how would you rate this metal vs. A2?

[Eric Rathhaus]

Hi Will - I don't have any A2 steel. On another note, I did go thru the whole process again and used Dykem to ensure I honed the tip. I still never felt a wire but did get the blade sharp enough to take fine shavings.

[Will Blick]

Being that A2 and 01 have been around forever for wood blades...
how did Chrome vanadium get introduced? Is it a lower cost metal for lower cost chisels?
Or does it have some unique properties for chisels over the more common metal types?

[Mike Henderson]

Being that A2 and 01 have been around forever for wood blades...
how did Chrome vanadium get introduced? Is it a lower cost metal for lower cost chisels?
Or does it have some unique properties for chisels over the more common metal types?

Vanadium was a "miracle" addition to steel back about 1900. Just a small amount greatly increased the strength of steel. Henry Ford (if I remember right) advertised that the model T used vanadium steel.

Mike

[Will Blick]

Why doesn't LN or LV use this steel in their chisels?
I assume its a cutting metal which has been trumped by the more common A2, O1 used today?

[Warren Mickley]

Why doesn't LN or LV use this steel in their chisels?
I assume its a cutting metal which has been trumped by the more common A2, O1 used today?

Chrome Vanadium steel is generally used on drop-forged chisels. Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen do not have drop forge capacity. They machine their chisels from blanks, so they tend to use steels that machine well.

Chrome vanadium is used for Pheil (Swiss made) carving tools, Two cherries, Aldis and others.

[Jim Koepke]

According to > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_steel#Cold-work_group < O1 steel has some chrome and may have vanadium.

Also see > http://www.hocktools.com/tech-info/toolsteel.html < for more information.


Our choice of High-Carbon Tool-Steel (.95% Carbon: either O1, our "high carbon" or A2) offers the finest, sharpest edge possible. Its chromium and vanadium additions amount to only 1/2% each allowing quick, clean honing with traditional techniques. High-carbon steel holds and takes an edge better than anything else. We guarantee it.

The more one looks at all of this the more confusing it is.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

My Craftsman chisels are marked as being chrome vanadium if my memory can be trusted.

jtk

[Larry Frank]

Calling something a chrome vanadium steel tells us very little about it. You really need to understand the complete composition to understand a steel grade.

[Will Blick]

Makes sense Larry...
Devil is always in the details...
and we never seem to get more than the marketing hype...