Media Center PCs

[Jack Hogoboom]

Anyone have a Media Center PC? I got a TiVo for Xmas (is it a "gloat" if it's not a ww tool??) and the functionality has me thinking about lashing everything in my house to my big screen TV with a PC that can handle video, music, pictures, etc. I'm interested in any comments, pro or con.

Also, I'm toying with the idea of building it myself. I've built 3 computers, but the component requirements for a Media Center PC look a little intimidating.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Jack

[Doug Jones]

Anyone have a Media Center PC? I got a TiVo for Xmas (is it a "gloat" if it's not a ww tool??) and the functionality has me thinking about lashing everything in my house to my big screen TV with a PC that can handle video, music, pictures, etc. I'm interested in any comments, pro or con.

Also, I'm toying with the idea of building it myself. I've built 3 computers, but the component requirements for a Media Center PC look a little intimidating.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Jack
Yeah I got one and its at best a hassle some times. With the price of computers today, why build one? My advice is,,, since you now have a Tivo, use the television for television stuff and use the computer for computer stuff.

[Loy Hawes]

Go to avsforum.com . They have a home theater computers section in their forums.

LOTS of good info.

[Jerry Olexa]

I bought a new Media Center PC w dual core processor 2 months ago. Great specs:250 HD, 1.0 RAM and lots of tools and toys. I like it as a fast PC w much capacity and use it a lot for things including photos but it is not connected to TV or other media. It is fast coupled w comcast cable but I don't use it as a Media center. My 2 cents worth. I also prefer that be a separate system for TV, tivo etc

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I was looking at the Dell site the other day and noticed that a great many of the new PCs have Windows Media Center standard...FWIW.

KC

[Mark Cothren]

Don't forget to google "dell coupons" before you buy a Dell. I just ordered a new notebook and found a "$500 off" coupon online that I used and saved an extra $100 over the rebate they were giving me.

[Peter Stahl]

Anyone have a Media Center PC? I got a TiVo for Xmas (is it a "gloat" if it's not a ww tool??) and the functionality has me thinking about lashing everything in my house to my big screen TV with a PC that can handle video, music, pictures, etc. I'm interested in any comments, pro or con.

Also, I'm toying with the idea of building it myself. I've built 3 computers, but the component requirements for a Media Center PC look a little intimidating.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Jack


Jack,

I was looking at the HTPC's (Media Center PC) and some are pretty pricey. Here's a web site I was looking at on how to make a HTPC ("http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/HTPC.html"). Don't think I'll make one any time soon but a full blown HTPC will cost a good bit more to make than your standard PC. I've never attempted to build one myself so I can't help you any with that. Some folks on the AVS forum are actully using theirs to record Digital programs from a set top box though the firewire to get DVD quality shows. The thing that ups the cost are the Tuner, Video and Sound cards used. If you do make one, please let us know how you did it and what you actully use it for. Picture below is a HTPC.

Pete

[Tim Burke]

I have just started to toy with setting up a media center pc. I just got a Sony 50" lcd tv last month and temporarily hooked my main pc to it via the HDMI input. This tv also has an analog computer input, but the digital input looks better. I got a DVI to HDMI cable from monoprice on the web. HDMI cables are outrageously priced at the local stores - $30 to $100! I got a 15 foot cable shipped quickly for $13.

Works fairly well for viewing pictures and surfing the web and running typical applications like Excel. If my wife and I are looking at the same info it is really cool to have it on the big screen. The text isn't as sharp as my 19" Dell flat panel, but it is easily usable.

I was less impressed playing a dvd through it compared to my stand alone dvd player, which really surprised me. My stand alone player has an analog 480 interlaced output that I am running through the component (RGB) input. It looks very good this way. We have watched more dvd's in the last 2 months than we had in a year's time with our old 27"! With the dvd coming from my computer running 720 progressive, I could not tell any difference in picture quality, which is not what I expected. I have read on the avsforum that 720p through the HDMI input is substantially better.

Tim

[Doug Jones]

Also remember when building this unit and making purchases expected to last a long while. That Blue-ray (Sony/Panasonic ) and HD DVD ( Toshiba ) is here now. Plus the first generation of holographic media is scheduled for release in late 2006 by Maxell and its partner, InPhase.

Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

[David Jarrell]

I built one last summer. I run Snapstream Beyond TV 4 on Win2k. It has been a great machine.

Specs:
Athlon XP 2500+ Barton
Chaintech 7NIL1 nForce2
512MB Samsung pc2700 CAS2.5
Visiontek Geforce3 Ti200 64MB
Hauppauge PVR-250
WD 120GB 7200 rpm 8MB cache
Seagate 250GB 7200rpm 8MB cache
Lite-On 4x DVD+-R/+-RW
Antec Aria Case

http://david.troop85.org/albums/album29/DSC08341.sized.jpg

Link to more pics:
http://david.troop85.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album29&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[Peter Stahl]

David,

What did this cost to put together? What would you change or add if you could? Looks like a nice unit, is this your main PC?

Pete

[Doug Jones]

Dave a great little setup,,,its amazing how fast things get out dated or upgraded in the computer world.

[Monte Milanuk]

Hope this doesn't comprise 'hi-jacking' the thread...


We're at that point where I need (badly) to upgrade the primary PC in the house. The main intended use of this box would be 'regular' PC stuff for the family... surfing the web, reading email, chat, downloading and editing pictures from the digital camera(s), same for videos from the digital cam corder, basic home office stuff...

Most of the models that have the features/functionality that I'm looking for seem to come w/ M$ Windows XP Media Center Edition on board... and a single channel TV tuner. While I don't have any intention (yet) of hooking this thing up to my (pathetic) entertainment center, the idea of a basic DVR so I can record a couple programs that seem to always be on at oddball times like 0400 in the morning or some such nonsense, and either watch them on a nice flat panel screen on the PC, or else burn them to DVD for watching on the main TV... has some real appeal.

Couple things appear to be stumbling blocks at this point... one, the computer is in the den/study, several rooms and the other end of the house from the TV. There is another DISH box downstairs as well, but it's at the same end of the house as the first. I'm debating how much time/trouble/effort it's worth to go thru to rout new cable over to the other end of the house... might be moving this year, maybe/maybe not, so kind of weighing the 'cost' there. Upgrading the DISH units to newer ones w/ DVR functionality might be an option... other than again, if we move, the area we would be moving to would most likely have either fiber or digital cable and the DISH stuff would be in the dumpster.

Any thoughts, comments?

TIA,

Monte

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

If you do decide to go with the DISH DVR, be sure you get the one that allows to watch one thing and record something else at the same time. Mine is limited to one...and that's become an issue since all my 'stories' are on Tuesday night. :(

KC

[Chris Gregory]

Monte,

If you are going to run the cable you should run two cables to each location, also make sure that the cable is RG6 Quad shield and swept to 2Gig minimum. If you decide not to move you will be able to pump anything down that pipe :) you might also want to run a Cat 5E or Cat 6 data cable just in case you never know what the future might bring particullarly with multi media PC's and home networking.

[Peter M. Spirito]

Here in Florida, FP&L aka: Florida Plunder & Loot, frequently "blinks" and that is enough for the TiVo to have to reboot which takes several minutes. A $25.00 Office Depot UPS battery back-up solved that problem. I would rather part my first-born child than part with my TiVo.:rolleyes:

[Peter Stahl]

Monte,

If you are going to run the cable you should run two cables to each location, also make sure that the cable is RG6 Quad shield and swept to 2Gig minimum. If you decide not to move you will be able to pump anything down that pipe :) you might also want to run a Cat 5E or Cat 6 data cable just in case you never know what the future might bring particullarly with multi media PC's and home networking.

Chris,

Why would you run 2 cables to each location? What would you connect all these cables to, splitters? When my house was built a subcontractor ran one coaxial cable to each room I asked for it in, 4 bedrooms and the family room. They split the main cable into 2 cables then up in the attic they put a 3-way and a 2 way splitter. Now with a big screen, DVD recorder and a Comcast STB I've split it again. I doubt I have RG6 Quad Shield. I know splitting isn't good so how should it be done? Also do you run your Cat 5E/6 cable to a router at a specific location? The closest I've come to Networking is my wireless router. Is a wired network that mush fast? I know it's definitely safer.

Thanks, Pete

[Chris Gregory]

Chris,

Why would you run 2 cables to each location? What would you connect all these cables to, splitters? When my house was built a subcontractor ran one coaxial cable to each room I asked for it in, 4 bedrooms and the family room. They split the main cable into 2 cables then up in the attic they put a 3-way and a 2 way splitter. Now with a big screen, DVD recorder and a Comcast STB I've split it again. I doubt I have RG6 Quad Shield. I know splitting isn't good so how should it be done? Also do you run your Cat 5E/6 cable to a router at a specific location? The closest I've come to Networking is my wireless router. Is a wired network that mush fast? I know it's definitely safer.

Thanks, Pete

Pete,

The two main reasons for running 2 cables is 1st with all the new technology available it provides redundancy and future proofs your installation, 2nd should you have problems with the first cable you have a simple and easy fix. The more splitters you use the more your signal is degraded in some cases where you can't get adequate bandwidth for the amount of information being pushed through the pipes. Ideally everything should be a home run from a central location, voice, data and video. RG6 Quad shield is the industry standard it used to be that regular coax provided adequate bandwidth for any application but now with all the channels, HDTV, broadband internet access etc you need to use a high grade cable that doesn't pick up ambient noise or signals, and most companies no longer use crimp on fitting for the same reasons they now use a compression style connector.

On the data side for regular internet access a wireless access point or router is ok but security is a major issue and the faster the speed normally means a reduced range. You can't go wrong with a hardwired network both for speed and security, and who knows what is down the pike for home networking.

With the race for all the providers trying to be your one stop shop Verizon is actually sending their techs to Krone to teach them how to install Cat 5E networks in residential homes as part of their pushg to get every home lit with Fiber and of course Microsoft is trying to get the hands into everybodies pockets so home networks are becoming more prevelant, all this does depend on wether you are going to move or not but it takes about the same amount of time to run one or multiple cables and then the job is done and you won't hear the dreaded "your cable isn't up to spec we can't use it" from an installer and not to confuse the issue VoIP is here to stay and everything comes down to how much bandwidth your network can handle.

[Peter Stahl]

Pete,

The two main reasons for running 2 cables is 1st with all the new technology available it provides redundancy and future proofs your installation, 2nd should you have problems with the first cable you have a simple and easy fix. The more splitters you use the more your signal is degraded in some cases where you can't get adequate bandwidth for the amount of information being pushed through the pipes. Ideally everything should be a home run from a central location, voice, data and video. RG6 Quad shield is the industry standard it used to be that regular coax provided adequate bandwidth for any application but now with all the channels, HDTV, broadband internet access etc you need to use a high grade cable that doesn't pick up ambient noise or signals, and most companies no longer use crimp on fitting for the same reasons they now use a compression style connector.

On the data side for regular internet access a wireless access point or router is ok but security is a major issue and the faster the speed normally means a reduced range. You can't go wrong with a hardwired network both for speed and security, and who knows what is down the pike for home networking.


Chris, Couple more questions. What do you home-run all you cables to? It has to be some type of splitter? I understand you don't want to/ need to connect the ones not in use. Is there a special device they should be home-run to? Where do you buy your cable? Online or local? Thanks for all the reply's Chris.

Jack Hogoboom, Networking you HTPC with you other PC's would be a good thing too. This way you could transfer stuff you recorded to another PC for editing or storing.
thanks, Pete

[Chris Gregory]

Chris, Couple more questions. What do you home-run all you cables to? It has to be some type of splitter? I understand you don't want to/ need to connect the ones not in use. Is there a special device they should be home-run to? Where do you buy your cable? Online or local? Thanks for all the reply's Chris.

Jack Hogoboom, Networking you HTPC with you other PC's would be a good thing too. This way you could transfer stuff you recorded to another PC for editing or storing.
thanks, Pete

Pete,

You could get everything online we deal with local distibutors , ADI is one company we deal with they carry the cable, connectors tools etc but they are wholesale only. If you get stuck let me know and we'll help you out. For your video you would run everything back to a distribution amplifier Channel Plus have some decent amps for cable service but check with your local provider and make sure it will be compatible, if you get hold of the right guy they may even provide one for you. For satellite we use Spaun Amps.

Cheers,
Chris

[Jim Becker]

I wholly agree with Chris' recommendation to home-run everything to a central distribution point. For video, you will still use a splitter of some sort, but there will only be one and it can be a boosted model if necessary for your home. Same goes for network wiring and phone wiring. Bring everything to a central point so you can easily distribute services throughout your home. And don't assume that any installer knows how to do this kind of wiring correctly...some have had proper training, some have not. Installing to spec isn't just a matter of having the correct parts..."how" it's done and how the terminations are made makes all the difference in the world. How cables are routed can also affect quality.

His point about using "modern" cable products is also valid, especially for video. There is a huge shift going on in the industry right now to fully digital and a lot more band-width and speed dependent content, such as High Definition. You may not be worried about that now, but you will be in a few years. Recabling can be big-time expensive...it's the labor that costs.

If you plan on doing your own work, learn how before you do the real job and make sure you have the correct tools. (They are not necessarily inexpensive) Cat 5 and Cat 5e must be terminated in very specific ways to meet spec. Miss-crimping connectors on your coax for video will sap quality...you may not notice it in some analog signals, but you will with HDEF later on.

[Chris Gregory]

I wholly agree with Chris' recommendation to home-run everything to a central distribution point. For video, you will still use a splitter of some sort, but there will only be one and it can be a boosted model if necessary for your home. Same goes for network wiring and phone wiring. Bring everything to a central point so you can easily distribute services throughout your home. And don't assume that any installer knows how to do this kind of wiring correctly...some have had proper training, some have not. Installing to spec isn't just a matter of having the correct parts..."how" it's done and how the terminations are made makes all the difference in the world. How cables are routed can also affect quality.

His point about using "modern" cable products is also valid, especially for video. There is a huge shift going on in the industry right now to fully digital and a lot more band-width and speed dependent content, such as High Definition. You may not be worried about that now, but you will be in a few years. Recabling can be big-time expensive...it's the labor that costs.

If you plan on doing your own work, learn how before you do the real job and make sure you have the correct tools. (They are not necessarily inexpensive) Cat 5 and Cat 5e must be terminated in very specific ways to meet spec. Miss-crimping connectors on your coax for video will sap quality...you may not notice it in some analog signals, but you will with HDEF later on.


Jim,
Yeah babee!:D
You are absolutley right! There are a lot of "professional installers" that terminate cables the same way voice cables were terminated and although Cat 5 and Cat 5E are very forgiving at lower speeds once you start trying to get 100mhz or higher out of them you start getting bit drops and errors. VoIP is becoming the true test of many a network because the bits all have to arrive in real time as opposd to data which can be put back together with VoIP a dropped packet simply gets discarded.

[Jim Becker]

VoIP is becoming the true test of many a network because the bits all have to arrive in real time as opposd to data which can be put back together with VoIP a dropped packet simply gets discarded.

True. I'm that particular business... ;)

[Michael Keating]

Jack,
I just got the Gateway Media center PC about 3 months ago and I wonder how I got along without it. I did alot of research and even contacted people who own the computers I was interested in and the gateway was the clear winner. I got it at a time when the offered a free extra DVD-Rom drive, extra memory upgrade and free shipping.
I have it set up to record all NYW and burn them right to DVD. This is one serious machine.
I owned a DEll before this and it gave me nothing but problems. I sent it back twice and it came back worse than before I sent it to them. I was very disappointed in their service.
Hope this helps.

Mike

[Monte Milanuk]

I just sprung for a new Gateway Media Center PC last night @ Costco... pretty sweet so far w/ the 21" flatscreen. The tuner looks to be pretty basic; the big problem is going to be that I have neither cable nor a set-top box (satellite or cable) in that room. Might have to run some cable when it warms up; it'd be nice to be able to record some of this stuff! Until then, it's nice enough having a computer that's a little bit 'fresher' :D

[Jack Hogoboom]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I'm going to shelve the project for now. I'm on my third wireless network and I'm tired of being on the "bleeding edge" of technology. In any event, I've kludged together a stop-gap by adding an external HP Lightscribe DVD burner to my laptop. This way, I can beam TiVo recordings right to the laptop and record them to DVD (once I figure out how to work the burner :rolleyes: ) which was my main goal. I love David Marks, but even I can't watch 10 straight hours which is what I had to do to record shows off my cable DVR. Plus, I bought the kids an Xbox 360 for Xmas (stealth gloat) and with media extensions downloaded onto my laptop, I can pretty much stream video, pictures and music to the 65" HDTV right from my laptop.:D

Ever notice how complicated it is to make things simpler???:eek:

I was pretty comfortable with the DOS prompt, but all this networking and burning and streaming is giving me heartburn. I keep waiting for one of my kids to surpass me on the digital front, but so far I am the sum and substance of my home IT department.

Jim, no offense, but I'm still not ready to plunge into VoIP. Besides, with Skype, I can pretty much do what I want for free....

Jack

[David Jarrell]

David,

What did this cost to put together? What would you change or add if you could? Looks like a nice unit, is this your main PC?

Pete

Ah..sorry it took a while to respond.

I really don't remember the cost of everything. You can price those components at sites like pricewatch or newegg, but I'll suppose that you can build one for well under $1k. I had some of the components already (the vid card and a hard drive, for example).

This is not my main box; I have a "main/gaming" machine in my office where I play games and surf, etc. The HTPC sits in the den on the entertainment center.

It is networked back to a switch in my office; when we remodeled our den I installed cat5 and coax drops in cover plates next to the power outlets. You could go wireless these days and skip all that wiring fuss. Here in the office I have another few machines, including a web server, dev web server, ham radio logging appliance (which is actually an old Virgin Webplayer), and a few other parts donor machines.

If I were to do it all over again, I don't think I'd change too much at all (except for the obviously faster mobo/processor combo). We're pretty happy with the setup and software.

Regards,
David

[Peter Stahl]

thanks David. I'd have to build a cabinet to hide a HTPC, my wife hates the componets being out in the open. Anyone one know of a good WW Forum, LOL.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I'm going to shelve the project for now. I'm on my third wireless network and I'm tired of being on the "bleeding edge" of technology. In any event, I've kludged together a stop-gap by adding an external HP Lightscribe DVD burner to my laptop. This way, I can beam TiVo recordings right to the laptop and record them to DVD (once I figure out how to work the burner :rolleyes: ) which was my main goal. I love David Marks, but even I can't watch 10 straight hours which is what I had to do to record shows off my cable DVR. Plus, I bought the kids an Xbox 360 for Xmas (stealth gloat) and with media extensions downloaded onto my laptop, I can pretty much stream video, pictures and music to the 65" HDTV right from my laptop.:D

Ever notice how complicated it is to make things simpler???:eek:

I was pretty comfortable with the DOS prompt, but all this networking and burning and streaming is giving me heartburn. I keep waiting for one of my kids to surpass me on the digital front, but so far I am the sum and substance of my home IT department.

Jim, no offense, but I'm still not ready to plunge into VoIP. Besides, with Skype, I can pretty much do what I want for free....

Jack
Jack, I'm late jumping into the fray, but for what it's worth, I have both a TiVo and my secondary PC, an XP Professional machine with an ATI All-In-Wonder card. (The TVo is the DirecTV-specific model, so I can record two shows and watch a third previously-recorded one.) The TiVo wins hands-down for my day-to-day TV recording, but I have a wireless analog connection from the TiVo into the PC, and can save the video on DVD if wanted. I don't have my TiVo networked with the computers, but I don't have a digital TV anyway, so it hasn't been a priority. I do most of my TV-watching on one of the CRT monitors in my office bedroom, from the TiVo into the PC. The wireless connection also handles the IR TiVo remote, so I have full TiVo functionality, even though the box is in the next room. Works well for my needs.

Just another approach...

- Vaughn

[Jamie Buxton]

Can I ask a newbie question here? I've heard about Media PCs, and don't understand what they can do. For instance, I have a (standard) PC with a 1600x1200 display, DSL, a DVD player, and a hard disc which is less than 25% full. I also have a television with a DVD player and a Tivo. What would a Media PC do which I can't do now?

[Jim Becker]

Jamie, most of it is software oriented although some hardware, such as the TV tuner is required, too...the "Media PC" version of Windows adds a lot of things that allow the PC to be more like the TIVO, edit video, etc. But with the abundance of third party stuff, one doesn't have to use an all-Microsoft solution. Your existing PC can likely be outfitted with a few additions, both hardware and software, that would turn it into a "media PC"...

[Peter Stahl]

Can I ask a newbie question here? I've heard about Media PCs, and don't understand what they can do. For instance, I have a (standard) PC with a 1600x1200 display, DSL, a DVD player, and a hard disc which is less than 25% full. I also have a television with a DVD player and a Tivo. What would a Media PC do which I can't do now?

Jamie,

The HTPC puts everything in one box with a little more power. Recording to the HTPC lets you edit and burn what you record easier. People that have them do everything from the couch with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Lots of other things you can do with them too. Google HTPC and check out what some people are doing with them. I've got a simular set up like you but an looking at them for the future.

[David Jarrell]

Jamie,

The HTPC puts everything in one box with a little more power. Recording to the HTPC lets you edit and burn what you record easier. People that have them do everything from the couch with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Lots of other things you can do with them too. Google HTPC and check out what some people are doing with them. I've got a simular set up like you but an looking at them for the future.

Actually there are quite a few remotes that do all of the necessary functions. For example, bundled with the Snapstream software I use (Beyond TV), there is a remote called Firefly. This is an RF remote (read: line-of-sight not necessary). I do have a keyboard and mouse for the machine, but they are rarely used.

Most of the Windows Media Center boxen can use remotes instead of the kb/mouse combo.

Regards,
David

[Tyler Howell]

Any body still listening???
What Speaker wire is being used today for home theater???
I've got fiber for my inter compnant stages And reals of the old standard 12 gage zip wire (monster cable). Is there something new for in wall use. I'm installing a Bose Acoustimas 10 with a sub. They provide their 16 ga spearker wire /ribbon cable but I dought that will be enough or the best selection.
Finishing off the master bedroom and I'm ready to make the final cable pull. Been to school on Cat 5e and RG6. But they didn't cover home Audio:rolleyes:
Another topic!
I noticed with a theater install I helped with they spected 66 blocks to distribute hi level audio from the PA to the house speakers:confused: Haven't seen that before:confused:
TIA

[David Jarrell]

What, so they were punching down speaker wire to the block? What gauge? Never heard of that.

Would be an interesting application for some fused bridge clips, though...