Mobile Milling

[John TenEyck]

One reason I bought the trailer package for my mill was the thought that I might hire my services to others to mill their logs on site. Yesterday was the first time I took the show on the road, about 25 miles away. The mill weighs about 1600 lbs and towed w/o incident behind my Subaru. Woodand Mills use a torsion bar suspension on their trailer packages and that sure helped it absorb potholes and bumps w/o rocking or swaying. I was impressed with how easy it was to tow, although there was a noticeable decrease in gas mileage. Beyond all expectations, NYS does not require license plates on portable sawmills.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eq46315kRua3bpig8jyXdTODcr4mboRll_XA9FYEohvDVmTI-35lH51-8GCVIbUdtU95-cZqCGSys5zRWo3Zt31KRO-zIrP_yWw_WdY7CnsHEp4VRDlS1XYq-YykwO9mNV-6-kbKt_EdRNjxEOH1IZ3w=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

In less than 45 minutes the mill was set up and we had the first log on it ready to cut. Lower the jack stands, unhook the car, level the mill, unlock the sawhead, and it's ready to mill.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e9QJxPlNlFB3D2QaMO6FDCXp9J0FTXoiVfQBAo4SueA_z8PRb YGKjly_jTZQp93hRQPHy1aVk6pNTpaEE4Bm8HL0qnvjFc72Um1 UZDSJo3m-ZR0pf6KDxP-5mZYBJZCzHD4I5tSmkljXHYD9wzX-nhSA=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

Loading logs was a snap because the owner has one of these, of which I am incredibly envious:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dwUrdBe8sOHI9KBd18ptGR93X9ivoGX9jhxirqztEUMTy_b7s WbdC7CUcHwhlBcHq9F4Vsa81IbtUDdkklpRvEQUCAHo5noDOTv ia_kkvNjr8p2HEM_IKKmrvVj_6vFLbJ3kJfFj6b9kakc0nacuX zZw=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

I showed the owner how to set up a draying rack and left him to sticker and stack it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fMIdzWCz0aBlPiStFsY0xmFpF2kBIURwA16hu-yKmQhKnlgg79v6mEi7SmNMgZt3TKeCrrNn6z_y_fT2CdJ0vbNB 3DKGyUAMJDWYf5EDmo6Vf-kwazgM4WWGt-ET11jBJZekHsadGH2cyQStlU01kgkA=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

Normally I get 1/2 the lumber, but because he put the logs on the mill and carried away the lumber I did it for 1/3 share. This was my share which I milled today:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cFXRq-l-gau5_OtqruorULsgFALl82HbMDe1C96lGLxzjFw1S1p7QzHhOZ nYV-0ZHWAfMwYVEhPre1lHr3Fv0SADbBZiiYwFNDXKXIcWj25w1kXa qAfVGjyLw4r7RdaiK7xN23esHXz5e8Q6L12VUZpA=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

About 260 bf of really nice red oak. Tomorrow I'll mill two more logs for the owner, then pack up the mill and bring it home. Not having to clean up the slab wood and sawdust is an added benefit of mobile milling.

John

[Frederick Skelly]

Interesting story and nice pics! I'd sure hate to move logs like that without his loader. (Guess you'd have used ramps and gaff hooks or something?) Those slabs look .... enticing. Almost makes me want to buy a mill too. Looks like it was a pretty darn good day!
Fred

[Tom Hogard]

John,

Those first mobile jobs give you things to think about that don't come up when milling at home, what tools to take with you, etc. Hopefully, you kept some accurate records and you can analyze the success of your job - mostly you can consider it a learning experience. I remember my first mobile, I learned a lot. I drove 31 miles each way (plus an earlier site visit), was there for 8 hours, milled just over 400 bf, and made $100 total.

Just a suggested analysis, using your figures and my fees: 25 miles one-way ($75), Setup ($50), Mill 530 bf @ split at 4/4 and 8/4 ($239) = $364+tax (required here, maybe not there). Compensation: 260 bf of red oak logs ($104) less transportation costs (another trip). You added to your education and experience, and he got an extremely good deal. :)

[John K Jordan]

Interesting story and nice pics! I'd sure hate to move logs like that without his loader. (Guess you'd have used ramps and gaff hooks or something?)

Me too! I've moved logs onto the trailer and then the mill with ramps and come-along or cable, with skidding tongs on the tractor bucket, and with forks on the tractor or skid steer. The excavator with a thumb that I use now is by far the easiest! I still like the tractor with forks best for offloading the lumber.

[Tom M King]

There are lifting tongs, and skidding tongs. I'll use lifting tongs for skidding, but not skidding tongs for lifting. I'm sure skidding tongs are actually stronger than what they're rated for, but I feel better using the lifting tongs for moving logs with the loader.

It's really nice that they don't require tags for a sawmill there.

[Bruce Wrenn]

It's really nice that they don't require tags for a sawmill there. NC doesn't either. Never seen them on a pig cooker, welder, mortar mixer, or single use trailer (NCGS 20-51 section 3.) What is fun is living in a state doesn't require tags (SC & TN), and going into a state that does. Visiting mill is exempt, while local has to buy tags.

[John TenEyck]

It seems that you guys don't know about parbuckling. A pair of ramps and a winch does the trick.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fMZb5aMzAdYvyS_XnXtJ6GydUOdIcBo8iHY_dNM6jlyplgMHu QYQyh1VpTh8XWpz59AbQWMuuaB7JwwbufxkhNSzqebx78yDMIv WdeWyKsqq1jZr-Q-8dVFVQxkLcMmemU1F6-lfRWGRlTfDFp1YxWDQ=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

I took this photo today. The owner left a log on the mill for me last night but had to work late today so he left 3 logs in front of the mill. This was the first one, an ash with some rot in one end. The ramps are from Woodand Mills. I've had logs over 2000 lbs on them. The winch is one I fabricated after I got tired of cranking the manual one and bent the mounting post from Woodland Mills. It's definitely not up to handling big logs, although it was fine for ones like this one. I built a much beefier mounting post with easier installation and use a 3500 lb electric winch now, powered off the battery on the mill. You run the cable over the top of the log and back underneath to the frame of the mill, and the winch just rolls it up the ramps. I use a long remote to control the winch which allows me to help steer the log if it misbehaves. Round ones like this go right up w/o incident.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dVcG9Ayku4b5pk-IaKB2InZlfy42hSq1EHxxDQMEILTY3s6JaauaWMEZVxCIggK2z sY0evXZPhMK5NbTyaROMR6E1NrFkwv1UOVSlXQnID7U6mSwVq9 72m_SEvWIqVm2du2CVtDDv1VnHY6SkcVfs59Q=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0


It doesn't take long to load logs this way IF they are already staged in front of the mill. I don't have a tractor at home so I have to move logs with a log arch hooked up to an ATV to bring logs to the mill.

John

[John TenEyck]

I worked 3 half days, about 14 hours I think. I milled a total of 10 logs for 1024 bf. My take was 314 BF, mostly red oak, but a few really nice ambrosia maple, too, that will sell easily and for good money. .

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dlYrSYBN-lXtvv_O6tCN9_aOUfo7vf3qAwR6zquZkWM0a2EqjFaikejS-yLZRIHZX43FDGXFq4858tf7VDVgnjdAOc7q1vm6hT4RPGyCe2z YRXIc7oIuogn8gO-8xxC9sC-zMcqEr9ryd2QFPokObUfQ=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

Red oak around me costs over $3/bf, 8/4 substantially more. If I lose 25% during drying I'll have 225 BF for a value of $675. My expenses were 150 miles on my car, 3 gals of fuel for the mill, and no lost blades. I dulled 3 blades but sharpen my own. I get at least 2 sharpenings before they break, so the cost was the equivalent of one blade, $25. Sum total, it was a win in my book.

Next week I have another job to mill about 8 logs, probably around 1500 bf at $0.40/bf. Selling lumber from free logs people give me is the best, but this is fun and pretty easy money, too.

John

[Bruce Wrenn]

Judging from the pile of logs in background of last photo, is this guy into feed termites? Why is the winch mounted on such a long post?

[John K Jordan]

There are lifting tongs, and skidding tongs. I'll use lifting tongs for skidding, but not skidding tongs for lifting. I'm sure skidding tongs are actually stronger than what they're rated for, but I feel better using the lifting tongs for moving logs with the loader.


I researched this carefully and decided to buy skidding tongs at 1/3 the price. Three important things: 1) I never lift a log over about 2' from the ground, 2) there is NEVER a person anywhere near the log even withing rolling distance, and 3) OSHA doesn't inspect my farm. The advice I read was if lifting logs over someone's head, lifting tongs should be used to avoid lawsuits and fines when someone gets hurt. What? My take on that is to NEVER EVER lift anything over someone's head or even near a person and never even position a log within rolling distance of a person or animal. When I worked for a steel piping fabrication company overhead lifts of any type were strictly forbidden.

For those who haven't lifted with tongs, if they won't grab easily on a larger diameter log just use a small sledge hammer to pound the points into the wood. I keep such a hammer on the tractor at all times.

I bought the largest skidding tongs I could find, 25" or something like that. When skidding logs out of the woods the easiest method I found is to connect a single skidding tong with a short chain to one of the grab hooks welded to the tractor bucket, grab one end of the log, and drive backwards. I lift the leading edge of the log slightly off the ground as needed to avoid digging into the dirt and catching on roots and such. When using skidding tongs for loading logs on a trailer or sawmill, I use two tongs and lift the log horizontally. Using forks takes more care and a delicate balance since otherwise the log can easily roll off the forks - I try to keep single logs on the tips of the forks to avoid the need to roll it when unloading. By far, the excavator with a thumb makes moving, loading, and unloading simple and safe!

BTW, I use the excavator to pile logs in the woods and load and unload trailers but never for skidding - it moves way too slowly!

One hint for sawmilling or preparing to cut turning blanks from logs - if you have water nearby hose the dirt and rocks off the log first (pressure washer is better) to keep the saw blades sharp longer.

JKJ

[John TenEyck]

Judging from the pile of logs in background of last photo, is this guy into feed termites? Why is the winch mounted on such a long post?

I don't think termites can survive in NYS. I've never seen one anyway. Ants, we have plenty of that get into partially rotted logs and some of them bite like crazy, which I learned again with one of the oak logs. In any case, I've never had any real trouble with insect damage in wood, the dreaded PPB, etc. I try to keep my own milling area reasonably clean and don't leave logs like this guy did lying around. FWIW, he got all those logs for $200 to use for firewood, and then realized how nice some of them looked and decided to contact me to cut lumber from some of them. While I was working yesterday, the UPS man drives up to deliver a package, looks at a couple of the gnarly maple logs and asks if the owner would sell them to him. I took his name and number and passed it to the owner when he got home. "Absolutely." is what he said. He's going to end up on the plus side of the ledger and still have a bunch of firewood.

The post for the winch is mounted that high to make it easier to roll logs on the mill. I can't turn big logs by hand working alone, even with a long cant hook. A 65 year old guy weighing 165 lbs is no match for a 2000 lb log. So I use the winch with a cant hook on the end to roll logs once they are on the mill and I need to turn them. Norwood has a similar setup with their winch system, which is what I basically copied. Theirs mounts into the side of the trailer and can be left in place while milling. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to mount mine that way so I have to remove it after each use. Not a big deal but it would be more convenient if I didn't have to.

If you look at the last photo of the ash log up on the mill you'll see two pieces of square tubing painted green leaning against the lumber pile on the right. Those fit over top of the stock back supports on the mill, which you can see in the first photo with the ash log part way up the ramps. Those tubes are as high as the winch and keep the log from trying to roll up over the stock supports and force it to roll. I haven't had a really large log on the mill since I added the new winch and back supports but with the 22" ones I've had it has worked very well.

John

[John K Jordan]

NC doesn't either. Never seen them on a pig cooker, welder, mortar mixer, or single use trailer (NCGS 20-51 section 3.) What is fun is living in a state doesn't require tags (SC & TN), and going into a state that does. Visiting mill is exempt, while local has to buy tags.

I was told that taking a trailer out of TN to some states would require tags but I don't know which. I put a tag on my small horse trailer since I have used it to transport rescue llamas as far as Florida.

In TN, the law is "The State of Tennessee does not require individuals to title and license utility trailers for private use, as long as you are pulling the trailer behind a Tennessee-licensed vehicle." So maybe don't loan the trailer to the brother-in-law visiting from Indiana!

BTW, just picked up another rescue llama this week.

437557

The owners became afraid of this pretty boy and with good reason. Seems like he knocked an 11-year-old boy down then knocked his very large father down and grabbed him by the neck with his mouth. Thing is, the llama has intact fighting teeth which are very sharp fangs, three on either side of his jaw - could have ripped the guy's neck open if he got a good grip. The owner seemed to be a wonderful person but unfortunately wasn't educated on raising (llamas are very social herd animals and need to be around other animals.)

This picture shows the fighting teeth on a llama skull which are normally removed on domestic llamas:

437559


He'll be gelded in a couple of days and after he's checked for parasites I'll put three of my males in with him to see if they can teach him some manners. If he turns out to be a hopeless case of berserker syndrome his future will unfortunately be fertilizer or llama burgers.

Llama berserker syndrome is described here if anyone is interested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserk_llama_syndrome

JKJ

[John TenEyck]

Interesting stuff about llamas, John. I had no clue they had fighting teeth. I'll keep my distance if I meet one in the wilds of South America, if I ever get there. Still on my bucket list.

Keeping logs out of the mud is the best approach if at all possible. I spend a lot of time digging gravel out of logs that people bring me before they go on the mill. I use a log arch to transport logs around my own property and that keeps them out of the dirt. This is a 22 - 24" hard maple about 10' long under the arch.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c8qD0QL6RIZ3NztP4nHwu0opYg56NVANwuP3mRBfzzKITRwl4 zU6ePM7qeO_lENN7hMeUb-hiyZs_WtX--kd-ZW_miqO9s2Php3xYC9zZ-Z7xGqbZYDtcUtDIDRBa9SLfeFeheJ6p4mAHToVnW_RDc-A=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

I transport logs that I buy or people give me with an lifting arch on my trailer.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d2Hg3MeSgXdk4-r7ctnGzrPjk6BGe0A6QjBIelRIbPkmueMjWTr_XH-JyboADmbwhQ0ik1W5wX-apQQCsrTmUfiil3-4G8DBRWi-H3pOb540T-bx3fPfNOQ9wT40h6INGoIC9QFXjthDGXV-MQn6JexQ=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0


I don't have any pictures with the log being picked up, but you can see plenty of videos on YouTube of how they work. I use skidding tongs to pick them up. Like you, I don't see a danger as long as you don't stand near the log. This trailer has a 3500 lb axle and is rated at 2200 lbs load; I had a big maple log on it last weekend that sure pushed that limit. The winch is rated at 5000 lb. I use a 4 line system to increase the mechanical advantage and it has no trouble picking up logs of that size.

Sawing is the easy part. Getting logs to the mill is often the greater challenge.

John

[Tom M King]

I almost always have guys helping, so no way will I lift a log around them with skidding tongs. I've had these for around 30 years. I don't remember what they cost, but I'm sure they were a lot cheaper then, than now. They are really robust, made from forged steel.

When I was building new houses, we'd start with a wooded lot. I'd load the logs we wanted to get out of the way in a dump truck, and take them to my helpers' houses, for them to use for firewood.

[Bill Bukovec]

Thanks for all of the posts. I always wondered how y'all moved your logs.

Just one question. What do llama burgers taste like?😉

[Bruce Wrenn]

One hint for sawmilling or preparing to cut turning blanks from logs - if you have water nearby hose the dirt and rocks off the log first (pressure washer is better) to keep the saw blades sharp longer.

JKJSeveral years ago, one of the magazines visited a mill. They built a roller rig, using car tires to roll logs over slowly while pressure washing them. Looked like a roller skate, upside down on steroids. Very small gear motor turned the logs.

[John K Jordan]

Several years ago, one of the magazines visited a mill. They built a roller rig, using car tires to roll logs over slowly while pressure washing them. Looked like a roller skate, upside down on steroids. Very small gear motor turned the logs.

Another method is an add-on to a bandmill which floats a carbide blade down the side of the log removing the dirty bark at the exact height where the band enters the log.

A large commercial mill here goes one further - it has a debarking machine which spins the log and removes every bit of the bark before the log is fed to the conveyor to the bandsaw. (The HUGE vertical bandsaw!) This mill chips and sorts and collects everything that doesn't end up as a board. An amazingly impressive place to visit.

JKJ

[Don Frank]

I'm getting the itch for one of these as I have 40 acres of hardwoods and the tractor with front and rear hydraulic grapples to handle the logs. The woodland mills set up has the capacity to do 10' cuts. What is the reason for the hobbyist to need a 20' deck? Handling any cut boards longer than 10' would be a pain and handling logs longer than 10-12' that have any diameter become much more difficult as well.
Also, is there any market for selling cut walnut that has not been completely air or kiln dried? In other words sell it for a discounted price so that I don't have to deal with a volume of wood drying for a year. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[John K Jordan]

I'm getting the itch for one of these as I have 40 acres of hardwoods and the tractor with front and rear hydraulic grapples to handle the logs. The woodland mills set up has the capacity to do 10' cuts. What is the reason for the hobbyist to need a 20' deck? Handling any cut boards longer than 10' would be a pain and handling logs longer than 10-12' that have any diameter become much more difficult as well.
Also, is there any market for selling cut walnut that has not been completely air or kiln dried? In other words sell it for a discounted price so that I don't have to deal with a volume of wood drying for a year. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

My Woodmizer has bolt-together sections. I bought an extra one with a theoretical capacity for a 17' log. I rarely cut such long logs although I did cut a 16'er once and trimmed 16' 6x6s for construction. But one advantage of having a longer bed is more maneuvering space in front and behind the log. His is handy when loading, clamping, and when measuring and aligning the log with wedges for the best cut.

I thought most band mills could be extended like this but I don't know. Mine stays in one place - I didn't buy the trailer kit.

BTW, I have occasionally sawed logs that my 40hp tractor couldn't lift with bucket hooks. Before I got bigger equipment, I'd rig up a ramp and use the tractor to push the log up the ramp and onto the mill. I also mounted some hooks further back on the boom where the lift height was less but the weight capacity was greater.

Market depends on your area and your advertising. Before I got a mill I would buy walnut and other species green directly from a mill for a huge discount and sticker to dry. A local mill sells green and partially air dried wood. I have always found people interested in slabs, dry or not. Also, there is often an interest in cants suitable to make mantles, they haven't cared or asked about dryness. When cutting thick beams, I take care to saw so the grain is as straight as possible down the beam in both directions. This minimizes or prevents twisting during drying.

If you start sawing a lot, you might sign up with some service like WoodFinder so people can find you. Or advertise on Craigslist or some local method.

JKJ

[John TenEyck]

I'm getting the itch for one of these as I have 40 acres of hardwoods and the tractor with front and rear hydraulic grapples to handle the logs. The woodland mills set up has the capacity to do 10' cuts. What is the reason for the hobbyist to need a 20' deck? Handling any cut boards longer than 10' would be a pain and handling logs longer than 10-12' that have any diameter become much more difficult as well.
Also, is there any market for selling cut walnut that has not been completely air or kiln dried? In other words sell it for a discounted price so that I don't have to deal with a volume of wood drying for a year. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

As John said, a longer deck makes loading logs easier. Woodland Mills offers an extension to give about a 16' 6" capacity on the trailer package, and probably unlimited capacity for a ground unit. I don't have a front end loader and getting a 10' log on my mill is nearly impossible. I cut everything to 9'6" or less.

Lots of guys around me are hawking "freshly cut" or "been air drying for months" slabs. They must sell them at least once to people, but I wonder how many come back a second time. A friend and I are proving that you can sell dry slabs for a premium, and if you can offer them surfaced you can charge even more and also expand your sales because there are many folks who want a slab but only some have the means to do something with it besides sand and finish it. It all depends upon how you want to go about it.

While I currently only sell KD stuff, I think slab coffee tables, etc. don't need to be dried to 7%. 10 - 12% is probably OK for anything that's not going to get ripped, planed, etc. like is needed to make cabinets and furniture. If you can get it that low by air drying then I'd seriously consider that approach rather than selling green wood.

John