mahogany ID

[Bruce King]

I bought several planks of mahogany about 20 years ago and still have two and a half of them.
The 13ft long ones were the darker wood and one shorter piece was this lighter wood.
I think the long piece pictured is going to be the darker stuff but starting to wonder.
I don't remember what I bought but it looks like African mahogany, agree?

[Brian Tymchak]

All the African Mahogany I've seen is fairly uniform in grain and color and fairly light in color. The second picture looks like African Mahogany. The first picture I'm not sure. Looks more like Honduran Mahogany or maybe Sapele.

[Mel Fulks]

Sight down the the edges. Or as Foghorn Leghorne used to say " edgewise I say ,edgewise !" The straight one is the
real stuff. Probably .

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have bought African mahogany that is lighter and darker than what is shown in the pictures, and I sent samples to the free ID lab in Wisconsin to confirm that was what they were. This is not to say that I am sure what you have there is African mahogany, just that it all looks plausible to me. The lab said both samples I sent were in the Khaya family but did not attempt to identify the species, there are several species of Khaya that are all called African mahogany. When I use it for building instruments I try to stick to one color in one instrument, but I did once make a banjo with different colors in it for contrast. I thought it was sort of nice, but it didn't sell for over a year, so I guess it was not a popular combination.

[Jim Becker]

The lighter colored sample looks like Sapele to me...often used instead of mahogany. The darker one is something else, but clearly similar in appearance to mahogany.

[Bruce King]

I’m very sure it’s all mahogany from close up examination but I was just wondering if it might be Honduran. I remember now it was called Genuine Mahogany when I bought it. I guess you can have genuine Honduran and genuine African ?

[Joe Jensen]

the lighter one looks just like the sapele I use and I have used maybe 500 bd ft

[John K Jordan]

I bought several planks of mahogany about 20 years ago and still have two and a half of them.
The 13ft long ones were the darker wood and one shorter piece was this lighter wood.
I think the long piece pictured is going to be the darker stuff but starting to wonder.
I don't remember what I bought but it looks like African mahogany, agree?

This has some information about genuine and look-a-like mahogany: https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/mahogany-mixups-the-lowdown/
You might examine the end grain with a razor blade to cut a clean spot and a magnifier.

JKJ

[Bruce King]

Awesome information on several woods!

[Bruce King]

Don’t think this is Sapele. Sapele has a certain smell, African mahogany does not have a smell that stands out.

[Alan Lightstone]

I know you don't think it is, but I use lots of Sapele, and that's what the first looks like to me.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Alan...that looks identical to the many board feet of Sapele I have in my shop.

[Warren Lake]

left photo top sapele, bottom african,

right photo and hope that board is not sitting on the floor too hard to tell, it even looks a fair bit like rough cherry, I havent seen Honduras in many years but likely close to that one.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I purchased a lot of wood that looks like that sold as African Mahogany. My understanding is that Sapele looks sufficiently similar that I could not tell the difference. I just looked up some pictures and that seems to agree (that they look similar).

[Bruce King]

From the link John Jordan sent above and other sources Sapele is not very available and smells somewhat like cedar.
The picture from the link, below, Sapele looks more like Luan than mahogany. It’s also heavier.
I looked at the end grain under 10x magnification and compared to the end grain pictures in the link and none of mine is Sapele. Could it be that suppliers are giving you African when they have no Sapele since price is similar.
first pic is Sapele end grain with 10x magnification.
2nd pic is Sapele.

[Bruce King]

Post some pics of your Sapele, from 18 inches away and 8 inches away, straight and figured areas both please.

[Jim Becker]

From the link John Jordan sent above and other sources Sapele is not very available and smells somewhat like cedar.

I can't comment on the smell--I never noticed it, but Sapele is pretty easy to come by in my experience. It's used extensively in lieu of the harder to find South American and Caribbean mahogany variants. I have a whole bunch of 8/4 in my rack. And yes, it's relatively heavy.

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[Bruce King]

Anyone have pictures of Planed, unfinished Sapele?

here is a link that shows and describes the differences between African mahogany and Sapele.
Sapele does not have all the grain and color variations as African.

http://thompsonmahogany.com/african-mahogany-vs-sapele-vs-utile/

[John K Jordan]

... Sapele is pretty easy to come by in my experience. ...And yes, it's relatively heavy.


Same here. I have considerable stock of 8/4 and 10/4 sapele, some 8-10" wide but some 24"+ wide. Some shake their heads is disgust when I cut big stock into small pieces for turning.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Anyone have pictures of Planed, unfinished Sapele?

Everything in my rack is rough, but I had this one board in the shop for guitar necks. It's relatively "straight" grained/QS/Rift Sapele; skim planed and shown both bare and with some water on it. The piece used for the guitar body up above was more figured.

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[Bruce King]

So after all my research it looks like the way to tell Sapele from mahogany is to smell for a cedar like smell and look at the end grain with 10x power and compare to the end grain I posted. 5x power actually works good enough since Sapele end grain is very different from all these other mahoganies. The other way is to send a sample board to this place:
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/research/centers/woodanatomy/wood_idfactsheet.php

I will send a sample of the light and dark that I have. It will be interesting to see for sure even though it does not have the smell or the endgrain of Sapele. I’m not trying to bust anyone’s opinions, it’s simply a learning experience that any wood worker needs to know especially if he is selling pieces as a certain wood species. One site said its impossible to determine which of the “red woods” that are called mahogany, Sapele or Utile just by looking at the face.

[Jim Becker]

Also keep in mind that the African species that often carry a "mahogany" name are not really mahogany. They are just a reasonable substitute. I've been able to mix Sapele and Honduran mahogany without too much trouble, but many of the African species just wouldn't work well for that, IMHO. The bottom line...use the same species for the whole project. :)

[Bruce King]

Here are two samples my lumber guy sent me.
African Mahogany and Sapele, wet.
Sapele is much heavier than anything I have.
This is regular Sapele where the picture Jim posted is Ribbon Stripe Sapele.

[John K Jordan]

Here are two samples my lumber guy sent me.
African Mahogany and Sapele, wet.
Sapele is much heavier than anything I have.
This is regular Sapele where the picture Jim posted is Ribbon Stripe Sapele.

Remember one thing - a given species of wood can have such a huge variation of "look" that there can be a lot of overlap between those looks making ID by looking at the surface more of a guess than anything. With the end grain you have a chance to narrow down the guesses and eliminate some. Some other clues to species are density, smell, and fluorescence with a UV light.

This has some entertaining and useful thoughts on wood ID:
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/the-truth-behind-wood-identification/
This page covers some details about identifying wood. Look at section seven for instructions on how to prepare end grain:
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-identification-guide/
For people with curiosity and drive who read, the book Identifying Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley is excellent:
https://www.amazon.com/Identifying-Wood-Accurate-Results-Simple/dp/0942391047

As an example of the variation in any species, look at some of the pictures on hobbithouse inc. This page has a list of woods on their site, you can scroll down the list then click on any wood thumbnail:
http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/

Of note is their statement
...there is rarely any "standard" or "typical" look for a wood..."

and his comment about the variation in sapele in particular is telling:
"There may be other woods that have as wide a variety of figure as sapele, but I'm not aware of any. As you'll see below, there's flat cut and quartersawn, with a fairly normal distinction between them but that's just the start. Then there's quilted, pomelle, figured, fiddleback, striped, blistered, wavy, and on and on, including COMBINATIONS of quilted and pomelle and others. This is particularly true of the veneer of this wood and I have read that some of the variation in veneer figure does not exist or is very weak in lumber, as the veneer shows certain types of figure in a way that lumber does not (and this does not even count rotary cut veneer, which is of course not available at all in lumber), but this caveat does not ring true to me and I have seen many web-pics of stunningly figured sapele lumber. "

This is his page for sapele, scroll down the page and see if your wood looks like any of the pictures. It likely will, even if it is not sapele!
http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/sapele.htm
Don't forget to read the fact sheet on sapele:
http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/sapele/sapele%20fact%20sheet.htm

I have a fair amount of sapele stock and not all pieces look the same. I can find pictures that look close to all of them.

Also remember the finish makes a difference. This platter is sapele - you can't see it in a still picture but when holding it in the and and tilting it this way and that you can see the strong chatoyance, a 3D look of depth that appears to be below the surface but is not. It's close to 24" in diameter.

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JKJ

[Bruce King]

Wow! Nice platter. Is all the wood in it Sapele?

This piece of Sapele I just got has the signature smell that you read about.

[John K Jordan]

Wow! Nice platter. Is all the wood in it Sapele?


Thanks. It's made out of a 2" thick slab of sapele. I did it hanging around Frank Penta who is a texturing maniac, thus the textured band and rim. The base is also "based" on Frank's multi-axis technique with a variation. The only wood gripped by the chuck expended into the three concentric curved segments of the three small triangular shapes in the base - maybe 1/8" of wood in those three places was enough to hold the 20" platter securely to turn and finish the front/top. Not catches allowed!

A closer picture of the base:

438028

Here are Frank's instructions in a PDF file for anyone interested: http://www.frankpenta.com/index.php/projects/projects/Frank%20Penta%20Platter%20handout.pdf/detail

Frank is in Raleigh NC and is an incredibly enthusiastic, creative, and prolific woodturner. And an incredibly nice guy! Frank will stop whatever he is doing and help any person in the universe at any time. :)

I've made some other sapele platters, mostly since I like the wood and big pieces are relatively easy to find. These two platter live in our house, the largest is over 18" diameter, the smallest about 14".

438029

I hold the front/top by a screw chuck, cut a recess into the base of each, decorated around it a bit, then turn the bottom completely and apply finish. Reverse the piece and use the recess to hold the piece to turn the front, leaving the recess in the base on the finished piece. While some Turning Police decry this method ("You can't do that!"), I ignore them. The recess and detail around it greatly simplify finishing the platter eliminating the final reversal to clean up the base and the need for a vacuum chuck or jamming. I like the detail and many non-turners and complemented the look. I use this method on many bowls and platters. It also makes a great place to sign the work!

Speaking of bases, some variations including an even closer view of one of the sapele platters:

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The recess also makes a great way to hold the work while smoothing the top with and scrapers and sanding while off the lathe (held in a carving/finishing stand). After using this method I don't want to go back to the old way.

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JKJ

[Bruce King]

John, very impressive work!
I have not gotten into turning but eventually will.

[Bruce King]

Here are the results on the three samples I sent in:

Dear Bruce King,
Forest Service
Forest Products Laboratory
Date:
One Gifford Pinchot Dr. Madison, WI 53726-2398
I have identified the specimen(s) you submitted to the Center for Wood Anatomy Research wood identification service. Your specimen(s) was/were received on 8/10/2020 and identification(s) was/were completed on 8/11/2020 the identification(s) is/are as follows:
1. Khaya sp.
2. Khaya sp.
3. Khaya sp.
Respectfully,
Alex C. Wiedenhoeft, PH.D.

[Bruce King]

This chair side table has all three of those sub species of Khaya in it.
No Sapele. The original post pictures is wood in this project.