Plywood Decking: Ouch!

[Carroll Courtney]

Its been few yrs since I purchase some cheap ole 1/2 plywood decking to do little roof repair but dang! What has happened, yea I see the OSB,which is cheaper but its like the lumber gods are directing us to buy OSB.Guess there is an abundance of chips from these tree companys that turns them into chips in back of there trucks after taking a tree down. Things has change over yrs

[Bradley Gray]

CDX is not worth using these days - too many voids, not flat, not square........

[Jim Becker]

Many builders and roofers have moved to the ZIP system which is essentially Advantec type OSB and much more durable relative to moisture than either plywood or regular OSB. The quality on CDX as was mentioned is nothing to write home about these days, either.

[Frank Pratt]

Many builders and roofers have moved to the ZIP system which is essentially Advantec type OSB and much more durable relative to moisture than either plywood or regular OSB. The quality on CDX as was mentioned is nothing to write home about these days, either.

Advantec has great sheathing & subfloor systems & they've done a very good job of educating & marketing. If I build another house I'd sure consider their products.

[John K Jordan]

Its been few yrs since I purchase some cheap ole 1/2 plywood decking to do little roof repair but dang! What has happened, yea I see the OSB,which is cheaper but its like the lumber gods are directing us to buy OSB.Guess there is an abundance of chips from these tree companys that turns them into chips in back of there trucks after taking a tree down. Things has change over yrs

Around here they clear cut forests and chop the trees into chips for OSB and such. They can use trees too small for lumber. I regularly see long trains of railroad cars full of chips on a siding nearby, heaped high enough to see them from the road.

I prefer good OSB instead of plywood for roofing.

[Lee Schierer]

I hate OSB, it doesn't hold nails well. It fails if it gets wet after being on a roof for a couple of years. I'll stick with plywood on my roofs.

[Alex Zeller]

Around here they clear cut forests and chop the trees into chips for OSB and such. They can use trees too small for lumber. I regularly see long trains of railroad cars full of chips on a siding nearby, heaped high enough to see them from the road.

I prefer good OSB instead of plywood for roofing.

Not trying to get political but that's a shame. Parts of a tree need to be left in the forest to rot and keep the soil healthy. Around here they use the chips in a electrical power plant. They don't even allow them to dry first so they don't even produce the amount of heat they could.

Advantec really changed the way people look at OSB. Before it was that stuff that would fall apart if a drop of water hits it. Now it'll last for years in the elements without any further protection. I haven't had as good of luck with other brands that compete with Advantec though. The last few sheets I got from Lowes were warped pretty bad. Once nailed and glued to joists they aren't going anywhere but it's kind of a pain to get the tongue and groove together.

[Richard Coers]

Its been few yrs since I purchase some cheap ole 1/2 plywood decking to do little roof repair but dang! What has happened, yea I see the OSB,which is cheaper but its like the lumber gods are directing us to buy OSB.Guess there is an abundance of chips from these tree companys that turns them into chips in back of there trucks after taking a tree down. Things has change over yrs


They certainly don't used arborist tree trimming chips. There is no bark or leaves in OSB. As long as you don't mind voids and adhesive failure between layers, then plywood is the way to go. The old plywood roof decking on my 1958 ranch sounded like popcorn when I replaced the roof the last time in 1999. I replace the sheeting on the whole roof in OSB and it is in great shape. Replaced the roof after hail damage last year. At 67, I hired this one done!

[Mike Cutler]

I hate OSB, it doesn't hold nails well. It fails if it gets wet after being on a roof for a couple of years. I'll stick with plywood on my roofs.

Lee
I'm with you on this one. I'm not a big fan of OSB.

[Jim Becker]

Advantec has great sheathing & subfloor systems & they've done a very good job of educating & marketing. If I build another house I'd sure consider their products.

The Zip system product is pretty impressive...my roofer friend used it to redeck an area that had to be replaced because of water damage. I've been using the scraps to build birdhouses that I suspect will last "forever". LOL

[Andrew Hughes]

I used to work with a couple carpenters that would have a fit every time I used the word roof deck. They insisted there was no deck on the roof. I liked to point out all the high nail heads and suggest they come back on roof and hit them down with their purses.:)
Aww those were the days

[Andy D Jones]

My home is a tract house built by DR Horton 27 years ago. Lots of corners cut (don't get me started on electrical issues!), but the upstairs sub-floors, roof decking and sheathing are all OSB, and have held up very well.

I also recently purchased 3/4" T&G OSB sheets to add some decking over the ceiling joists above the garage, for more storage. I purchased it from Home Depot. It was smooth on one side, and not warped, with clean T&G edges. I had to rip them into 2'x8' strips to get them through the pull-down attic stairway into the attic.

OSB allows more of any size tree to be used efficiently. I'm not for clear-cutting natural forests, but getting the most out of every tree means fewer trees have to be cut to get the material.

Finally, the burning of wood chips for fuel is all about efficiency. If the energy/time/expense in drying the chips is not returned, with profit, when they are burned dry, then it is not worth drying them, and better to burn them "wet".

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Wayne Cannon]

It's been a couple of decades now, but local mills here (USA West Coast) could not compete with Japanese factory ships sitting just off our coast, chipping lumber (fir) into OSB, and "shipping" it back into the U.S. market. Most of the region's mills making plywood, etc., are now closed.

Lumber prices here skyrocketed at the time; but I don't know which happened first.

The World order has changed since. I don't know what the current situation is.

[Neil Gaskin]

We've switched pretty much exclusively to zip panel for sheathing. I've always been happy with Advantech. I do have slight concern about relying on tape and the coating with no other barrier given what I've seen over the years when siding and trim is not maintained. Time will tell.

[Jim Becker]

My understanding is that if the ZIP system tape is done properly, it and the coating (which is impressive in its own light) essentially does the same job, but much better, as the wraps which is to reduce and/or eliminate direct air infiltration. Taping can be a bit labor intensive to do it correctly, but the end result is very good.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

Sounded interesting, so I looked it up...

https://youtu.be/wVLIAodkfgA

[Dave Sabo]

Lee
I'm with you on this one. I'm not a big fan of OSB.,

Blanket statements like these aren't really accurate or helpful.

Im not a big fan of hardwood, it looks like crap, is difficult to machine, and doesn't take stain well. Just kidding.

But I might have this mentality if my first, or only experience was of a load of maple that was twisted , bowed, knotty and possibly was spalted. Just like OSB, there are many grades and types of hardwood that are better suited for some purposes better than others. Some may prize splating while those looking for a clear homogeneous look will abhor it.

I can assure you top grade OSB like Adavntec and Huber's Zip system sheets hold nails very well. It also costs 3-5x what that commodity OSB you formed your opinion about it does.

Cabinet guys have have this same discussion all the time over solid wood vs. plywood vs. particle board vs. MDF vs. melamine. One is not inherently better than another. It depends on the spec, your goals and your budget.

[Bob Falk]

I built and addition to my 1920's home and used the Zip system of paneling as well as Avantec for the subfloors. The Avantec saw multiply heavy rains (I am in the midwest) and never swelled or created a problem. The wall system has the advantage that no wind barrier is required if the seams are taped.

[Bob Cooper]

When I GCd my house I was talking to my framer. He’s in his 60’s, smart and well respected in the building community here. I asked him about plywood vs OSB and his comments where that he hated plywood as many times he’d have to come back to a job due to warping. NOTE that we were on the roof talking about roof decking at the time

[Steve Rozmiarek]

We use ZIP, it is a great system. Highly recommended. There are some competitors now, so the price is even coming down a little. The sheets themselves are made from a finer chipped OSB with the coating. It's a great thing to skip the housewrap.

That being said, OSB is pretty darn good stuff on it's own. I don't even remember the last sheet of CDX I bought. Somebody mentioned OSB not holding nails, the only nails that are designed for it are roofing and non stud siding. Both of those nails are specific for their job and will set fine. Any other nails in a standard building will pass through the OSB and anchor in the studs or rafters.

[Warren Lake]

rebuilt two roofs, first was a 1970 home roof solid pine approx 7" boards, ripped them all down the center as per the certainteed manual, hammered old nails way low and stapled all using 2" senco staples. Solid and strong.

Second was 1961 bungalow had 3/8" ply on it original and then an addition that would not pass code in Nairobi, used the same 3/8" ply on that. Took some of what last owner moron put on off, disgrace. The addition was a total mess to the point that top carpenter said rip it off to the foundation and re do it. No issues with that using plywood. There were no issues on any of the original plywood either when I stripped and re roofed that one.

Looked at the you tube and that looks good. One thing I stripped and rebuilt as one person doing whole roofs so I had to tarp and do sections at a time. With that system had it been on there would have been no need to do that. Slugging a 20 x 40 foot heavy duty tarp or two on a roof and tying down was no fun and less on a windy day, I invented roof parasailing.

[Jason Roehl]

I gotta say, I recently ripped up carpet in a good portion of my 1974-built home. With that, I ripped up the 1/2" particle board underlayment (original to the house) because I'm going to put down 3/4" hickory flooring in the next couple months. The subfloor? 1/2" CDX, NOT tongue-and-grooved, but gapped. There are definitely knot voids in the top layer of veneer, so I'd guess throughout as well. The installation is not great (lots of variation in gap size, a couple sheet corners not well-supported and mushy), but the particle board definitely wasn't going anywhere--it was installed over the top of a layer of roofing felt, with 2" ring-shank nails driven through the CDX into the joists at 4-6" O.C. If you've never pulled up particle board, the only way to do it without ending up in a straitjacket is to dig out all the fasteners and pull up full sheets.

Moral of the story: Not everything of old is better.

[Mike Cutler]

,

Blanket statements like these aren't really accurate or helpful.

Im not a big fan of hardwood, it looks like crap, is difficult to machine, and doesn't take stain well. Just kidding.

But I might have this mentality if my first, or only experience was of a load of maple that was twisted , bowed, knotty and possibly was spalted. Just like OSB, there are many grades and types of hardwood that are better suited for some purposes better than others. Some may prize splating while those looking for a clear homogeneous look will abhor it.

I can assure you top grade OSB like Adavntec and Huber's Zip system sheets hold nails very well. It also costs 3-5x what that commodity OSB you formed your opinion about it does.

Cabinet guys have have this same discussion all the time over solid wood vs. plywood vs. particle board vs. MDF vs. melamine. One is not inherently better than another. It depends on the spec, your goals and your budget.

Dave

Point taken. I do understand your point, and I do know that there are myriads of formulations for "OSB" defined products.Same as with MDF and MDO
Within the context of this thread, and the specific applications referenced, was common exterior sheathing, rated for roofing applications. That's what I was referring to.
You can drive around New England, look at the roof lines on houses built in the 80's through 2000's and easily identify two things. The trusses that are on 24" centers, and the sheathing is OSB. They look like old time wash boards. They built some really cruddy houses in CT in the late 80's building boom. I'll never buy into any 1/2" thick, wood/resin, product as the sub material for a roof.
GP's Advantech is a phenomenal product and is the sub floor material I installed in our house. I do not know of the Zip System, but if it's cost is 3-5 times the cost of commonly available exterior sheathing, is it being used on roofs, or building sides, in widespread applications? I would think not as of yet, but I do like the performance benefits outlined in the video above. It looks like a nice product/system. It removes some additional steps in the building process, so that may normalize out the cost.
I personally, would never put that poor quality, exterior rated OSB sheating, available in sheets at big box stores, and building supply houses, on my house. When I remediated my front porch, the sub material was 3/4" plywood. It replaced 100 year old ,1" thick, oak boards, that had warped, split, popped up, and created, gaps and leaks.
Even hardwoods on a roof have limitations. ;)

[Jim Matthews]

Moral of the story: Not everything of old is better.

My wife said the same thing.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Just saw this pic as one of those "memories" that google does, figured I might as well post it. This is one of the Zip systems competitors, LP Weather Logic. It's also good stuff. Note the zip tape on the seams rather than the LP tape. We built these wall panels in the shop and set this garage up with in two days with a small crew in the middle of the winter. Because the walls were set in panels, there are some tape gaps on the seams that haven't been done yet. Knew it would be a bit before the siding and shingles went on, so easy call to use a ZIP type product. In this instance, the real Zip was sold out in my region so I tried this LP instead.
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