Dust extractor vacuums - Bosch or Metabo

[Frank Martin]

It is time for a new dust extractor. I currently have a Festool and would like to get something other than Festool. Unlike many years ago, it seems there are quite a few great ones (based on specs) available. I am considering either the Bosch or the Metabo below:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076CSZXY3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Metabo-AutoCleanPlus-AutoClean-All-purpose-602057800/dp/B07J56SZH6/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=metabo+dust+extractor&qid=1594577483&sr=8-2

I am a bit worried that Metabo may have long term parts / service availability issues given the sale to Hitachi. Otherwise, purely based on specs I would probably go for that one.

Would love to hear from people who have direct experience with these.

[Ron Kanter]

I don't have experience with the brands you are asking about, but wonder if you are aware of the new Festool CT 15 E. It is "only" $350 a relative bargain compared to the larger Festool line and the vacs you are considering. It is more compact but with decent 4 gallon capacity. The only thing missing from the larger vacs is blue tooth activation.
Given your other Festool you might find compatibility is an important consideration.
HTH, Ron

[Frank Martin]

I really don’t want to continue to support the Festool brand. I once had about 12-14 tools, now down to 5 and other than those without a competition so far (i.e., domino) I am trying to shift to other brands. When I first started buying Festool about 16 yrs ago, they did not have much of a competition, now for most tools there is. For example, Mirka Deros is better than the Festool sander I had before.

Anyway, back to dust extractors...

[Jamie Buxton]

A few years ago, I was very unimpressed with a friend's Bosch vacuum. It had automatic filter cleaning. Every few minutes there would be several big thumps from the machine. They were quite startling, and annoying. If I owned the thing, I probably would have ash-canned it. The Bosch you linked to also has automatic filter cleaning. I hope they've fixed that problem.

[Garrad Miller]

I have 2 Flex extractors that work very well.

[Phil Gaudio]

I have used Fein for many years and they have served me well.

[Peter Kelly]

I think the Metabo vac is a Starmix iPulse. Very nice machines, would certainly recommend.
https://www.starmix.de/en/ipulse

Same vac is branded as Mafell so you could probably get parts from them if it really came down to it. Metabo has always been helpful with anything I’ve sent them in the past, don’t think Hitachi would mess with that.
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-s-35-hepa-dust-extractor

For substantially less, the Kärcher WD5/P is excellent, just needs a Bosch or Festool hose. I have one and like it as much as my Festool CT 26.
https://www.amazon.com/Karcher-Multi-Purpose-Semi-Automatic-Cleaning-Space-Saving/dp/B01BL7J5M4 (https://www.amazon.com/Karcher-Multi-Purpose-Semi-Automatic-Cleaning-Space-Saving/dp/B01BL7J5M4/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3PEV5TPVYS7CZ&dchild=1&keywords=karcher%2Bdust%2Bextractor&qid=1594590387&sprefix=Karcher%2Bdust%2Bextractor%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-6&th=1)

There’s also the Hilti VC 150. Bit spendy but it’d would last forever and no concerns about getting repairs done through their national network. https://www.homedepot.com/p/303265519

[Frank Martin]

A few years ago, I was very unimpressed with a friend's Bosch vacuum. It had automatic filter cleaning. Every few minutes there would be several big thumps from the machine. They were quite startling, and annoying. If I owned the thing, I probably would have ash-canned it. The Bosch you linked to also has automatic filter cleaning. I hope they've fixed that problem.

Seems like Bosch has that “feature” based on Amazon reviews. So, it is out. Thanks for the heads up.

[Frank Martin]

I think the Metabo vac is a Starmix iPulse. Very nice machines, would certainly recommend.
https://www.starmix.de/en/ipulse

Same vac is branded as Mafell so you could probably get parts from them if it really came down to it. Metabo has always been helpful with anything I’ve sent them in the past, don’t think Hitachi would mess with that.
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-s-35-hepa-dust-extractor

For substantially less, the Kärcher WD5/P is excellent, just needs a Bosch or Festool hose. I have one and like it as much as my Festool CT 26.
https://www.amazon.com/Karcher-Multi-Purpose-Semi-Automatic-Cleaning-Space-Saving/dp/B01BL7J5M4 (https://www.amazon.com/Karcher-Multi-Purpose-Semi-Automatic-Cleaning-Space-Saving/dp/B01BL7J5M4/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3PEV5TPVYS7CZ&dchild=1&keywords=karcher%2Bdust%2Bextractor&qid=1594590387&sprefix=Karcher%2Bdust%2Bextractor%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-6&th=1)

There’s also the Hilti VC 150. Bit spendy but it’d would last forever and no concerns about getting repairs done through their national network. https://www.homedepot.com/p/303265519

Did not know about Metabo being same as Mafell. They definitely look the same from outside.

Karcher is certainly interesting. It is so cheap, I would normally not even consider it assuming low quality. Will need to look into it more, but so far Metabo seems the check the box for me.

[Peter Kelly]

That Kärcher WD/5 I bought years ago has held up great, bags for it are inexpensive too. Meanwhile, the plastic top part that holds the Systainers on my (expensive) CT 26 just snapped off as I was moving it a few feet. Higher price doesn’t always mean better.

[Frank Martin]

That Kärcher WD/5 I bought years ago has held up great, bags for it are inexpensive too. Meanwhile, the plastic top part that holds the Systainers on my (expensive) CT 26 just snapped off as I was moving it a few feet. Higher price doesn’t always mean better.

Does it come with an antistatic hose that fits Festool tools? Mirka Deros has the same size dust port. So, if it fits, I might give it a shot.

Also, is it as quiet as the Festool?

[Peter Kelly]

The hose that vac comes with isn’t great but the below linked Bosch 35mm one can be grafted on to the Kärcher adapter quite easily. The other end is the exact same fitting that Festool uses.
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-16-4-Foot-Vacuum-VAC005/dp/B0000AV78B

https://i.imgur.com/TkdyH2C.jpg

[Peter Kelly]

No, not noisy like a Shop Vac. DB are similar to Festool, Nilfisk, Hilti, etc.

[Frank Martin]

Thanks for this. Seems like the hose is not antistatic. Have you had any problems because of it? On Amazon reviews someone mentions Cen Tec, which apparently is antistatic.



The hose that vac comes with isn’t great but the below linked Bosch 35mm one can be grafted on to the Kärcher adapter quite easily. The other end is the exact same fitting that Festool uses.
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-16-4-Foot-Vacuum-VAC005/dp/B0000AV78B

https://i.imgur.com/TkdyH2C.jpg

[Peter Kelly]

Not particularly. I occasionally wash out the small amount of fine dust that accumulates within the hose with a garden sprayer once a year or so. These are inexpensive enough I can leave one set up for my Ceros as well. I wouldn’t say that an anti-static hose has been a real necessity for me.

[Dave Sabo]

Seems like Bosch has that “feature” based on Amazon reviews. So, it is out. Thanks for the heads up.

pretty sure the auto filter cleaning can be turned off.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I think the Metabo vac is a Starmix iPulse. Very nice machines, would certainly recommend.
https://www.starmix.de/en/ipulse

Same vac is branded as Mafell so you could probably get parts from them if it really came down to it. Metabo has always been helpful with anything I’ve sent them in the past, don’t think Hitachi would mess with that.
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-s-35-hepa-dust-extractor

For substantially less, the Kärcher WD5/P is excellent, just needs a Bosch or Festool hose. I have one and like it as much as my Festool CT 26.
https://www.amazon.com/Karcher-Multi-Purpose-Semi-Automatic-Cleaning-Space-Saving/dp/B01BL7J5M4 (https://www.amazon.com/Karcher-Multi-Purpose-Semi-Automatic-Cleaning-Space-Saving/dp/B01BL7J5M4/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3PEV5TPVYS7CZ&dchild=1&keywords=karcher%2Bdust%2Bextractor&qid=1594590387&sprefix=Karcher%2Bdust%2Bextractor%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-6&th=1)

There’s also the Hilti VC 150. Bit spendy but it’d would last forever and no concerns about getting repairs done through their national network. https://www.homedepot.com/p/303265519

Is the Karcher WD5/P more of a shop vac or a dust extractor? We have been waiting patiently on the Festool CT15 to use solely with our sanders at work. Will probably buy 3 when they become available through our local dealer. (They are still waiting on a shipment). That WD5/P looks nice and is around $150 less than the CT15. I just wonder if it would perform the same as the CT15 when using solely with sanders. We are not concerned with automatic filter cleaning, Bluetooth, or powered tool ports. Plus we already have a variety of smooth walled hoses and such.

[Peter Kelly]

Been using my WD/5 as a dust extractor for some years now but I’ve also used it for general cleanup when installing stuff. Comes with variable suction and a tool trigger switch much like Festool and others.

Vac is made in Italy if anyone is wondering.

[Tony Shea]

The Metabo is certainly an interesting option that I didn't realize existed. I just picked up the Festool Midi and wish I saw the Metabo. That Amazon description of the Metabo says 137CFM but vac says 157CFM on the side of it, curious what it actually is.

I'm just starting to go down the Festool rabbit hole but am starting to hear some bad things about them lately. I've also noticed their pricing is quite a bit inflated just based on their name which is a bit of a bummer. I don't mind paying extra $ for high quality tools but some things are just priced high because. I picked up the Festool Tradesman/Installer cleaning set to go along with my MIDI and I have to say that this kit is way overpriced. There just wasn't any other good options for a decent quality wand accessory to match the vac so unfortunately got had a little but by Festool. I still want their routers and potentially a sander though.

[Peter Kelly]

https://youtu.be/0LUropm7tIU

⚠️ Warning: Some forum members may find the above video to be sacrilegious. Proceed with caution.

[Frank Martin]

Been using my WD/5 as a dust extractor for some years now but I’ve also used it for general cleanup when installing stuff. Comes with variable suction and a tool trigger switch much like Festool and others.

Vac is made in Italy if anyone is wondering.

Just realized Karcher has 76 cfm volume, which is about half that of Metabo. I am guessing it works well for dust extraction from sanders, etc., but how does it work for general cleanup? This would be my only vac which needs to do a good job in both. Does yours work just as good as Festool CT26 for general cleanup? Festool I believe has about 130 cfm.

Leaning towards Metabo, but don't want to write off Karcher...

[Peter Kelly]

Yes, works fine for general cleanup.

[roger wiegand]

I've had the Bosch VAC090S for about five years now, I upgraded it to a HEPA filter. It seems to work just fine, no odd banging in the night or anything. It apparently has a "semiautomatic" filter cleaner that works if you push some button. Wouldn't know, as I've never had occasion to do it. The only time the filter clogged was once when the reusable bag came open, it was pretty easy to blow it out. Pretty much nothing gets to the filter. I use it with both Deros and Festool sanders. The bosch hose didn't seem to fit much of anything (including my old Bosch sander) without an adapter. I got a festool hose with my most recent sander and it works quite nicely with everything.

[Bobby Robbinett]

Just realized Karcher has 76 cfm volume, which is about half that of Metabo. I am guessing it works well for dust extraction from sanders, etc., but how does it work for general cleanup? This would be my only vac which needs to do a good job in both. Does yours work just as good as Festool CT26 for general cleanup? Festool I believe has about 130 cfm.

Leaning towards Metabo, but don't want to write off Karcher...

If that is the correct CFM number on the WD5/P that might be a deal breaker for us on purchasing them over the CT15’s. I know realistically they for use with a sander you can probably get by with under 80 CFM but my boss may not like that.

[Frank Martin]

I've had the Bosch VAC090S for about five years now, I upgraded it to a HEPA filter. It seems to work just fine, no odd banging in the night or anything. It apparently has a "semiautomatic" filter cleaner that works if you push some button. Wouldn't know, as I've never had occasion to do it. The only time the filter clogged was once when the reusable bag came open, it was pretty easy to blow it out. Pretty much nothing gets to the filter. I use it with both Deros and Festool sanders. The bosch hose didn't seem to fit much of anything (including my old Bosch sander) without an adapter. I got a festool hose with my most recent sander and it works quite nicely with everything.

You are blessed with the semi auto feature. Currently available model is "Automatic", model VAC090AH, which I think is the reason why people are complaining about cleaning cycle. As much as I can tell from Amazon reviews, that feature can be turned off, but it has to be done every time the unit is turned on, so kind of inconvenient to do that every time you turn on the vac.

[Frank Martin]

If that is the correct CFM number on the WD5/P that might be a deal breaker for us on purchasing them over the CT15’s. I know realistically they for use with a sander you can probably get by with under 80 CFM but my boss may not like that.

Another difference with the Karcher unit is that it is not HEPA rated. It does have a pleated filter and in terms of actual performance, especially for hobby use in a wood shop, may not be much different, but it is something to keep in mind.

Based on all this, I went ahead and ordered the Metabo. Should receive it tomorrow and will see how it performs.

[Frank Martin]

The Metabo is certainly an interesting option that I didn't realize existed. I just picked up the Festool Midi and wish I saw the Metabo. That Amazon description of the Metabo says 137CFM but vac says 157CFM on the side of it, curious what it actually is.

I'm just starting to go down the Festool rabbit hole but am starting to hear some bad things about them lately. I've also noticed their pricing is quite a bit inflated just based on their name which is a bit of a bummer. I don't mind paying extra $ for high quality tools but some things are just priced high because. I picked up the Festool Tradesman/Installer cleaning set to go along with my MIDI and I have to say that this kit is way overpriced. There just wasn't any other good options for a decent quality wand accessory to match the vac so unfortunately got had a little but by Festool. I still want their routers and potentially a sander though.

About Festool... It is a good brand. I got my first tools back in 2013/2014 (track saw, vacuum, sanders) when there were no similar tools in the market in terms of performance. They were always higher priced compared to competition. What I think is different today is that there are other alternatives in terms of performance that I believe represent better value compared to Festool options. Better value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Of course, it does not help that Festool keeps increasing their price annually, over time creating even bigger price difference compared to other brands. I find their accessory pricing in particular unreasonable.

Of course, what you use the tools for matters a lot too. I use them in my hobby, no need for mobility or onsite work. For people who need mobility (e.g., installers), I do think their system approach is still attractive and probably very valuable.

Here are some of my thoughts based on how I use tools:

- 6" ROS - Mirka Deros, while more expensive, is significantly better than the Festool offering. Can be used with both 6" and 5" pads. Much lighter with better ergonomics and dust collection when used with mesh type discs.

- 6" Rotex - Similar Bosch (former model 1250DVES) has basically the same performance at half the price of Festool. I know because I "upgraded" from that Bosch to Rotex to find out subsequently that Rotex was not really an upgrade. Found this out after the 30-day return period, unfortunately for me. There is a newer model Bosch GET75-6N, which I have not used.

- Routers - I purchased and then sold both the OF1010 and the OF1400. To me, they offered no additional benefit over the Dewalt offerings, DW621, DW625 and DW611. I love the through the column dust extraction of DW621. In my opinion it is superior to Festool. However, if your use is to couple the routers with the tracks, then Festool routers are probably better designed to be used that way, due to handle design.

- MFT- I purchased the older version years ago for its crosscut feature. I found it did not hold adjustments and was very unreliable for accurate cuts. I sold it and have no use for it now as I have a Euro Sliding saw.

- Systainers - As I work in my hobby shop (i.e., my 2 car garage), I have no use for them as they take up more space compared to storing tools in cabinets / drawers for easier and more space efficient access. I wish Festool offered the option to buy their tools without the systainers. I sold most of mine as I had no interest in using them or storing them.

- Track saw - I originally had the ATF55, then upgraded to TS55. I rarely use it since I upgraded to the Euro slider, but will keep it as I like the saw. It is underpowered. If I were using it more frequently, I would look for other options (same size, more powerful). If I were buying now, I would take a serious look at other options, including Makita.

- Vacs - I purchased my CT years ago and now I think there are better options. I will find out soon with the Metabo tomorrow...

- Domino - This is the one tool without any competition. I purchased mine when it first came out and will never sell it unless someone comes up with a better version.

So, all that is to say that which brand of tool is right depends on how you use it and what is important to you. If you asked me 10-15 years I ago, I would argue virtues of Festool. Not anymore, other than Domino.

[johnny means]

I've used a few of the Festool competitors and none of them seem as well designed. Little details like bags that won't come out once they get full. Lids that don't need to be completely removed to change bags. At a certain price point I'm just not willing to live without the little details.

[Steve Catts]

The hose that vac comes with isn’t great but the below linked Bosch 35mm one can be grafted on to the Kärcher adapter quite easily. The other end is the exact same fitting that Festool uses.
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-16-4-Foot-Vacuum-VAC005/dp/B0000AV78B

https://i.imgur.com/TkdyH2C.jpg
Peter,

I am thinking of this very thing for my new Karcher. Could you share more about what you had to do to adapt the Bosch hose onto the Karcher piece that connects to the vacuum? From your photo I'm not sure if you have somehow gotten the Bosch hose to thread into the Karcher connector or if you have figured out how to use the actual Bosch hose end to connect to the vacuum.

Thanks!

[Peter Kelly]

Steve - the end fitting that the Bosch hose ships with just gets trimmed off and threaded onto the Kärcher one. Not terribly difficult but you’ll want to soften the hose end in hot water prior to doing this.

[Steve Catts]

Just to be clear, you cut the semi-rigid Karcher hose off of the fitting that connects to the vac? And then work the Bosch hose into the fitting?

[Peter Kelly]

Yes, correct.

[Frank Martin]

Update....

I received the Metabo from Amazon last week. First observations:
- Compared to my previous Festool CT it is more powerful and appears to be built with higher quality materials in terms of the case/body plastics, wheels, etc. Hose connection to the vacuum includes positive lock, in addition to friction fit.
- It was not obvious from the item description on Amazon, but it can take plastic (polyethylene) bags (recommended for high dust volume applications such as concrete grinding, wall grinding etc and can also be used for wet vacuuming) or fleece bags (recommended for typical woodworking use). It came with one plastic bag. I ordered 5/pk Metabo fleece bags from Acme for $29 + shipping. While searching for fleece bags, I saw a vendor selling aftermarket bags much cheaper than typical OEM, with good reviews. See dustdeals dot com if you are interested. For example, for my vac 5 bags are sold for $19. They sell bags that fit Festool and many other brands.
- Autoclean function (magnetically vibrating the HEPA filters) does create noise, but according to the manual, it will not be needed when used with fleece bags. There is a slide valve inside the vacuum to adjust for plastic vs. fleece bags.
- It came with a ~36mm id hose. End fitting is definitely higher quality rubber compared to my prior Festool. I will see how it works especially when connected to my Mirka Deros sander. If it feels too bulky, I plan to get a 1-1/4” Cen-Tech hose on Amazon that seems very good at a great price

All in all, I think Metabo is an awesome vac, very well built, to me, looks better than the Festool I had in every way. At the price it is sold, I think it is a great deal.

Peter, thank you for recommending this one. I searched a bit when you mentioned and it does seem like it is made by Star Mix.

[Peter Kelly]

Glad to hear it worked out, Starmix extractors are awesome. I’ve seen a Systainer Adapter at a retailer in Germany, not sure how easy it’d be to get one in the US but it looked pretty cool.

https://www.starmix.de/en/products/wetdry-vacuum-cleaners/craft/adapter-plate-unifix

[roger wiegand]

I jinxed myself saying nice things about my Bosch extractor. The tool auto sensing feature just died and now I have two on/off switches. Anyone ever fixed one of these? Google hasn't been much help so far. Is it likely the circuit board?

[Frank Martin]

I jinxed myself saying nice things about my Bosch extractor. The tool auto sensing feature just died and now I have two on/off switches. Anyone ever fixed one of these? Google hasn't been much help so far. Is it likely the circuit board?

I have not fixed this before, but I would order a new switch and see if that solves the issue. This is precisely the reason I was more interested in the Bosch. They have higher volume and generally great parts and service support in case needed.
Wishing you good luck in fixing this. Hope it is just as easy as swapping out the switch.

[Steve Catts]

Peter,
I have received my Bosch hose. Really good material. I have looked carefully at the Karcher hose and its connection up inside the fitting to the vacuum. It looks to be connected to a swiveling ring inside the fitting. A couple of questions:
1. When you cut out the Karcher hose, did you keep the swiveling ring inside of the fitting?
2. How exactly did you make the connection for the Bosch hose into the fitting? Obviously it would be best (avoid twisting) for the new hose to be able to swivel as well.