Machinery...

[Michael J Evans]

I am curious as to what machines you consider essential to your hand tool wood working journey? I own a table saw and a chop saw. I don't ever user the chop saw and dislike using my table saw. It is a Craftsman 113 and the fence leaves a lot to be desired. But it's good for rough ripping jobs. I want to continue using mostly hand tools, but have been considering removing the table saw and getting a band saw and a planer. I find resawing by hand and thickness planing to be a real pita.
The reason I am thinking about a band saw is that I should theoretically be able to resaw and rip in one machine. I haven't done much research into band saws but if I were to buy one it would have to be fairly cheap, $500 and under. For a thickness planer, I would probably go with a DeWalt lunchbox style or something along those lines.

Hopefully this type of post isn't sacrilege here. But what machines make your journey more enjoyable?

Regards
Michael

[Erich Weidner]

I no longer own a bandsaw. But am thinking about picking one up. My tablesaw is buried under other things. My sliding compound miter saw hasn't been touched in months.
Seems like a lot of folks favor a bandsaw and lunchbox planer as the "assistant" power tools of choice. I had similar questions and got some good advice here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?283610-Going-Neander-Well-probably-mostly-or-at-least-a-lot-more&highlight=).

[Jim Koepke]

The reason I am thinking about a band saw is that I should theoretically be able to resaw and rip in one machine. I haven't done much research into band saws but if I were to buy one it would have to be fairly cheap, $500 and under.

Get the best you can afford. My current bandsaw was purchased new. It is a 14" JET with 12" resaw ability. It can use up to a 3/4" blade.

If possible, a bigger one would have been purchased.

You will likely do well to purchase a used machine for the price range you list. Back in the SF area my knowledge of used machine dealers was much better than what is available in the Pacific Northwest.

If you are not in a hurry, so some research and hunt around. You never know if a school might be selling off old shop equipment.

This hunk of wood was a bit of work and took the building of some custom saw horses:

436612

My son-in-law, over on the right, helped. After cutting and planing this piece ended up 3"X10"X7'.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

BTW, most neanders have some power tools.

My big three are bandsaw, drill press and a lathe. These are followed by cordless drills, belt sander, ROS and a saber saw used in about that order. All the others sit idle. The ROS and saber saw haven't been used in over a year.

jtk

[ken hatch]

BTW, most neanders have some power tools.

My big three are bandsaw, drill press and a lathe. These are followed by cordless drills, belt sander, ROS and a saber saw used in about that order. All the others sit idle. The ROS and saber saw haven't been used in over a year.

jtk

What Jim said.

Bandsaw would be the last to go, it is a must have. Drill press, lathe, and planer are all on about the same level, all nice to have but of the three the drill press would be most missed if not available.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

I am curious as to what machines you consider essential to your hand tool wood working journey?....I want to continue using mostly hand tools, but have been considering removing the table saw and getting a band saw and a planer. I find resawing by hand and thickness planing to be a real pita.
The reason I am thinking about a band saw is that I should theoretically be able to resaw and rip in one machine. I haven't done much research into band saws but if I were to buy one it would have to be fairly cheap, $500 and under. For a thickness planer, I would probably go with a DeWalt lunchbox style or something along those lines.

Hopefully this type of post isn't sacrilege here. But what machines make your journey more enjoyable?

Regards
Michael

Michael, to all those who guilt you into believing that any tool, and in this situation power machinery, is "sacrilege", say to them "phooeey" :)

There are some who wish to emulate 18th century woodworkers in every way possible. Good for them. There are those that want to do pocket hole joinery for everything. Good luck to them. You have to do what is helpful to you, and do it the best you can.

I take pride in my hand skills, and I prefer traditional joinery. I use hand planes 95% of the time, but I own a couple of ROS (an old Festo along with a recent-ish Mirka), and they get used where appropriate. We have enough debates and sides taken over hand planes, tool steel, and sharpening. Everyone just loves to belong to a side or team. We do not need more religious zealots in woodworking.

Use the power machinery that you want to. You do not need to justify or apologise for them. Just purchase the best you can afford, and then enjoy it.

I have some great apprentices, after a number of upgrades over many years. The ones I consider the most useful are these three (combo jointer-thicknesser, drill press, and bandsaw) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/vZH3McVG/DP12a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Michael J Evans]

Get the best you can afford. My current bandsaw was purchased new. It is a 14" JET with 12" resaw ability. It can use up to a 3/4" blade.

If possible, a bigger one would have been purchased.

You will likely do well to purchase a used machine for the price range you list. Back in the SF area my knowledge of used machine dealers was much better than what is available in the Pacific Northwest.

If you are not in a hurry, so some research and hunt around. You never know if a school might be selling off old shop equipment.

This hunk of wood was a bit of work and took the building of some custom saw horses:

436612

My son-in-law, over on the right, helped. After cutting and planing this piece ended up 3"X10"X7'.

jtk

Hi Jim
Yes I would definitely buy used. I have no qualms over used machinery or tools. I've been watching craiglist and Facebook for the last couple weeks just seeing what's within a hour or so of me. I'm semi local to you in the Portland metro and not much has been available. I'm not ready to buy anyways, so I'll do some research on what can rip and resaw half decently.

[Michael J Evans]

I no longer own a bandsaw. But am thinking about picking one up. My tablesaw is buried under other things. My sliding compound miter saw hasn't been touched in months.
Seems like a lot of folks favor a bandsaw and lunchbox planer as the "assistant" power tools of choice. I had similar questions and got some good advice here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?283610-Going-Neander-Well-probably-mostly-or-at-least-a-lot-more&highlight=).

Thanks Erich. Good read.

[Michael J Evans]

Thanks Derek. I agree that people shouldn't pick sides. I originally got into hand tools, out of necessity aka budget, I needed to plane some items, and couldn't afford a planer. Stumbled upon Paul sellers and went down the rabbit hole. I thoroughly enjoy the challenge that hand tools methods present. But sometimes I just want to get a project done, and with two boys and a full time job, time is limited.

[John Gornall]

Tools have evolved. Some changes driven by marketing new techniques. Were no router tables or dominoes. Most joinery was done on the table saw. Tenons that fit in slots or dadoes all cut on table saw. Confusing what techniques to use and which tools to buy for new woodworkers. Yesterday in my shop all bench work with hand tools. Last week cabinets of plywood on tablesaw. And that new track saw to break up sheets saved the old shoulders from humping full sheets thru the tablesaw. Choices are vast.

[ken hatch]

Tools have evolved. Some changes driven by marketing new techniques. Were no router tables or dominoes. Most joinery was done on the table saw. Tenons that fit in slots or dadoes all cut on table saw. Confusing what techniques to use and which tools to buy for new woodworkers. Yesterday in my shop all bench work with hand tools. Last week cabinets of plywood on tablesaw. And that new track saw to break up sheets saved the old shoulders from humping full sheets thru the tablesaw. Choices are vast.

John,

You bring up a good point. As far as I can see there is a divide, those that use sheet goods and those that don't. It's hard to work sheet goods without a tablesaw, can be done with tracksaws but a PITA to work that way. If you do not work sheet goods there is no need for a tablesaw, a bandsaw will do all the tablesaw jobs safer and uses a lot less floor space.

ken

[Andrew Seemann]

Resawing and thicknessing tend to be the most time and energy consuming parts of hand tool woodworking. You can make an argument that they are foundational, and help develop skills and muscle memory and such, but myself (and likely many other people), basically find them miserable to do for more than a little while and a waste of the limited time I have for woodworking. If I am going to work by hand, I want to do joinery or final surface planing, not something that a motor can to a much better job of in a quarter of the time.

My vote would be a bandsaw (or two) and a thickness planer. They give you the most return in time and energy saved in hand tool woodworking.

[Jim Matthews]

Physical limitations should come into play, when choosing tools. Ripping boards longer than 20", or more than 3" in thickness wrecks my hands.

Drilling lotsa holes is "boring" by definition.

Power drills and mobile bandsaws are not just time savers, as your joints wear out.

****

Planing, cutting joinery and carving - that's the fun stuff.

[Derek Cohen]

Physical limitations should come into play, when choosing tools. Ripping boards longer than 20", or more than 3" in thickness wrecks my hands.

Drilling lotsa holes is "boring" by definition.

Power drills and mobile bandsaws are not just time savers, as your joints wear out.

****

Planing, cutting joinery and carving - that's the fun stuff.

I identify with this, Jim.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Curt Putnam]

I knew at the outset that I did NOT want to rip (more than a few inches) by nor did I want to hand plane to a thickness. I thought that, between a track saw and bandsaw that I could do what the tablesaw did. I sold the miter saw, 6" jointer, and Ridgid tablesaw. I am now finding that the track saw is not of much value when dealing real wood (as opposed to sheet goods.) I have yet to discover whether it is me, the blade, or the saw but I am not finding the bandsaw useful for ripping 0.125" off a piece that is 27" long and 2.625" wide.

I now have a track saw w/MFT, a Dewalt 735 planer, a Grizzly g0513X2 17" bandsaw and a Ridgid 15501 drill press and tend to really miss the table saw. My fenced jointer plane makes short work of cleaning up a band sawn edge. I have yet to miss the jointer or the miter saw.

It may be that I am old and feeble, both of mind and body or it may be that a TS is really, really useful for accurate stock dimensioning. I am going to buy a carbide tipped blade for the bandsaw and see what difference that makes. I would love not to have spend the money or to use up the space a TS would take.

I hope this ramble has been of some value.

[Anuj Prateek]

One thing that I have felt/experienced is that with hand tools you can get better accuracy in certain operations compared to lower end machines.

To rip board, I use a small job site table saw. I then have to refine/joint the ripped edge.

Few days back I bought a small sheet of 1" MDF. I asked the store (Windsor Plywood) to cut it to the size I needed. I intentionally, told the dimensions 1/4" more, so that I can get it sized accurately at home. This is what I do when I buy any sheets from HD. Anyway, the guy there used a Sawstop table saw. At home when I measured the board it was very accurate. Edges where straight to 0.004-5" (over 24") and sides where square.

In a nutshell, if you are using machines then use a good one. They can get the non fun parts done in no time with good accuracy.

[Derek Cohen]

Curt, no bandsaw blade I have come across to date can replicate the finish off a well set up tablesaw (and I do have a 1" Lenox Woodmaster CT carbide blade for resawing on a decent bandsaw). It is possible to get glue-ready edge joints off the table saw I have (well, what many would consider glue-ready).

I feel like a broken record when I write that one must do as one pleases, but do not take literally those who espouse that their way is "better". It may be, but it may just be different. By all means do away with power equipment if you wish to be "hand tool only". I have no beef with that. I worked very close to that for years before I could afford any. Personally, I see value in all tools, and the table saw, for one, is an exceptionally useful member of the team. It is different from the bandsaw. They specialise in different tasks. I do not get those who want to view them as equivalent, and then want to choose one or the other.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Erich Weidner]

And that new track saw to break up sheets saved the old shoulders from humping full sheets thru the tablesaw.

I'll second this. The tracksaw is great for dealing with sheetgoods.

[Bob Jones 5443]

My goal is to use the machines to get the stock close to foursquare, but I almost never assume the work is finished until I use the planes to refine the surfaces.

– I use the jointer to take out most of the wind, and then turn to the winding sticks, shims, and hand planes to finish the flattening and squaring. After the machine, hand planing requires the slightest of stop cuts and finish sets of shavings.
– Then it's off the the planer to get within a few thou of uniform thickness. If precise thickness matters I get out the marking gauge and plane down to the line. Again, I leave only the last few thou to do by hand. After all, I'm not an actual Neanderthal.
– I still rip, crosscut, and dado on the table saw. I have a killer dado head you can't buy anymore.
– I ease corners with a block plane or spokeshaves, but for most edge profiles or grooves it's the router in the table, often with a new bit for the job, not a Stanley No. 45 for me. I sometimes make a negative profile part to use as a sanding block.
– I find the drill press indispensable for many kinds of precision boring operations, particularly with Forstner bits. I own a brace but ... no way, when I can control position, verticality, and depth precisely on the machine.
– The band saw is my newest machine. I've made precise circles with a jig I copied from a YouTube video. I love cutting curves for the first time! I still rely on hand tools to clean up saw marks. My saw is a 10" baby, so the resawing has been limited, but it does a creditable rough job if I need to get, say 1-1/4" out of an 8/4 board. The band saw is my least pricey machine by far. I can imagine springing for an 18" someday.
– I also have a random orbital sander, rarely used; a jig saw, now essentially retired since the 1/8" band saw blade; a handheld circular saw, used maybe twice this century; cordless drill and impact driver, good for making jigs or French-cleat boxes

For joinery, the analogy holds.
– I have no qualms about roughing out a slightly thick tenon with a dado head on the table saw, and then easing in on the final thickness with the router plane.
– I use a plunge router and a nifty jig I made from Young Je's design (YouTube) to make furniture-sized mortises, and then I square up the ends with chisels (and usually round off the tenons with chisels too).

More than enough power tools! But they're for the grunt work, like prepping to paint a house. Then I unplug and kiss the surfaces. Like Derek, I can get a glue joint on the table saw, but I always finish with a hand plane, probably just for the satisfaction of doing a better job by hand than the machine can do.

Now dovetails, on the other hand... I will not use the power tools unless and until I can make beautiful joints by hand.

[Jim Koepke]

I have yet to discover whether it is me, the blade, or the saw but I am not finding the bandsaw useful for ripping 0.125" off a piece that is 27" long and 2.625" wide.

My old bandsaw, Rockwell 10" would have trouble with this task. My new bandsaw, JET 14", does not have this problem when used properly. This is often caused by feeding the stock to quickly.

My old bandsaw would do what is commonly called "blade drift" or "blade wander." Google those and there may be some solutions that will help. Ignore the solutions involving an angled fence.

jtk

[andy bessette]

Machines:
Get rid of the crappy table saw, but replace it with a good one--you will need it.
Essential to most wood shops are also a bandsaw, drill press, router table, thickness plane...

If you will be working with any sheet goods, get a good track saw.

[Jim Koepke]

Sheet Goods

Is it correct to think of sheet goods as plywood and other manufactured goods?

The only sheet goods used in my work so far has been 1/4" (6mm) for drawer bottoms or cabinet backs.

jtk

[andy bessette]

Sheet Goods

Is it correct to think of sheet goods as plywood and other manufactured goods?...

Yes, plywood, Masonite, Formica, etc.

[Curt Putnam]

Hi Derek! Getting rid of my table saw was the result of pressure from my wife (who wanted to put her car in the garage/shop) so some tools had to go. Can't even give the radial arm away so the miter saw was a no-brainer. I can edge joint by hand rather well and the paner works well as a face jointer when combined with a sled or after flattening with handplanes, so the jointer went away. I would not have sold the table saw (even with space hogging 36" rails) had I not totally overestimated the value of a track saw when working with real wood. Sigh. I knew it was a risk especially since I had never used a bandsaw since a disastrous day in high school.

My wife has since retired an we have chosen to keep the truck (we pull a travel trailer) and she does not care about keeping that in the garage since it doesn't fit anyway. So the space pressure has dissipated and I can make room for a jobsite sized saw (the SawStop is looking good right now.) It will be some months before I need it so I have time to think and research and revisit my decisions.

Later, Curt

[Michael J Evans]

Thanks for all the advice. Sounds like handsaw, planer, drill press (woulda never guessed) and tablesaw all are important. I can keep my table saw as space isn't a huge concern. When the time comes I will probably pick up planer first then bandsaw. The the ability to resaw seems like it would be a game changer.