Ripping on the sliding table saw - use original fence or 3rd party parallel?

[Ned Otter]

Hi everyone --

I've never used a sliding table saw, but will be getting one in the next year. I've read a lot and been in touch with at least one equipment vendor, and am designing a new shop layout.

I hardly use sheet goods, except perhaps for some jigs/fixtures, and in that case, I'd be using smaller pieces. My interest in a slider is related to safety, accuracy, and repeatability.

Since I'll be handling lumber 99% of the time, I wanted to ask members with more experience than I, what approach they take for ripping lumber on the slider. Some say that when dealing with long pieces and/or requiring pieces that match exactly, that the original fence is preferred. There is also the issue of binding when using the original fence.

Others state that the original fence can flex, get sawdust near it, etc., and so that the fence is not that accurate, and they prefer either shop-made or 3rd party parallel fences, i.e. on the sliding portion of the saw. Then there is the question of how you get that first straight edge if you're only using a parallel fence.

I think the original fence will have a wider ripping capacity than add-on parallel fences, but that's probably not an issue for me, since you can still get out to 24" to 26" with a parallel fence from a vendor such as Lamb.


Thanks in advance --

[Jim Becker]

Most of my ripping on my slider uses the wagon...straight lining first followed by parallel ripping using a Fritz and Franz jig. I do rip some smaller stuff or quickie things that don't need the cleaner edge that comes with using the wagon using the rip fence, but I prefer to use the wagon and it keeps my hands farther away from the sharp, spinning, hungry thing...

I treat my slider as a slider and try best not to use it like a North American style cabinet saw which is is not.

[Erik Loza]

If you're ripping solid lumber, parallel cutting attachments (whether OEM or aftermarket) aren't going to be that much help, since the lumber is usually narrower than the width of the slider. Where parallel-cutting devices ARE useful is for sheet stock that is narrow, but long. In my experience, assuming the rip fence is adjusted correctly to the main sawblade and not toed-in, you won't experience any of those issues when using it to rip solid stock. Things like Board Buddies are helpful there. Hope this helps,

Erik

[Kevin Jenness]

Straightlining is typically independent of any fence although you can use the stock crosscut fence and a parallel jig on the other end of the carriage for reference. A ripping shoe and/or clamps are handy at this stage.

I rip on the carriage sometimes, more now that I have a Fritz and Fans setup with scales and stops. 436034 I tend to use the standard rip fence most often out of habit and for simplicity. It's the only option when ripping pieces longer than the carriage. I set it back to the center of the blade when rough ripping lumber to allow for deflection/ stress relief. My carriage is only 11" wide so it's a bit easier to lean over it than some saws.

[Ned Otter]

Thanks very much to everyone who replied - really appreciate it.

[Michael Koons]

I recently upgraded from a 5'6" slider to a 10' slider and when I did, I built a Fritz and Franz jig thanks to the suggestions from this group. Since then, 99.9% of ripping is done on the sliding carriage. When I had the shorter slider, there were too many boards I couldn't rip on the shorter table, so I used the rip fence. I can't think of a time where I needed to rip anything longer than 10'. My F&F jig is 16" wide but I'd say 90% of the time I'm ripping with it, the boards are 6" or narrower.

If I have anything wider than 16", I usually just put it against the normal fence on the outrigger table, given that 16" and bigger gives me enough length to get me a good cut using the outrigger fence.

In the year I've had the 10' saw, I remember ripping on the rip fence once. I can't remember the reason why I had to do it.

[Dave Cav]

I have an 8 1/2' slider. Most of my shorter/smaller rips are done with a F&F jig, and longer rips are done using the width stop on the crosscut fence at the top and a parallel positioner at the rear. My PP is made from an Incra LS positioner. I do use the rip fence occasionally, but not often. If I have an oddball rip I'm not comfortable doing on the slider I'll generally use the PM65 cabinet saw (for example, a rabbet with the dado stack, or a long groove).

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I rip using either the sliding table and the rip fence, depending on the work flow. You can make you own parallel rip guide for the sliding table with DIY wooden T-nut, scrap woods, etc. before you spend money on a 3rd party parallel guide.

Clamps are very helpful.

For sliding table rip operation, either a flip stop + a parallel guide or 2 parallel guides, clamp down the work piece, and rip. Rinse and repeat. Small pieces get the F&F jig, which acts as clamps.
For rip-fence rip, lock the sliding table, and rip standing facing the side of the blade (not at the in-feed end) and use push stick. As work piece exits the blade, left hand can stabilize the piece against the out-feed side of the rip fence. The blade is covered with the overhead dust hood, so no fingers wandering near the blade. I use this method for shorter pieces.

Oh, straight line rip rough stock is with the edging shoe and the sliding table. Clamps if necessary.

For thin stock rips, I use the band saw then planer to get to final thickness or sacrificial push stick and the rip fence.

[Jim Becker]

If you're ripping solid lumber, parallel cutting attachments (whether OEM or aftermarket) aren't going to be that much help, since the lumber is usually narrower than the width of the slider. Where parallel-cutting devices ARE useful is for sheet stock that is narrow, but long. In my experience, assuming the rip fence is adjusted correctly to the main sawblade and not toed-in, you won't experience any of those issues when using it to rip solid stock. Things like Board Buddies are helpful there. Hope this helps,

I rarely take issue with anything you say, Erik, but here my personal experience is that ripping with parallel guides/Fritz & Franz is very effective and provides a nearly "perfect" edge compared to use the rip fence. Yes, for long narrow rips like sub-two inches, the fence is a bit easier...I'll agree with you on that...and using the guides isn't as fast as using the rip fence. But I try to rip for quality rather than speed since I'm creating components with the saw...I don't tend to go back to the jointer as a result of that quality cut on the wagon..

[Ned Otter]

Jim,

This is exactly what I'm trying to sort out, partially because the slider I'm considering requires 14' side-to-side in its largest format. I'm trying to see if I can reduce that footprint by getting a smaller outfeed table, or not using one at all. I've got 11.5' to work with, so it will be pretty tight.

[johnny means]

I decide how every rip is done on a case by case basis. Pulling the fence forward of the blade will eliminate binding and make clearing the blade much safer. As said earlier, thinner rips are usually better done with the rip fence. More unwieldy stuff usually gets clamped to the carriage. The biggest problem I've seen, imo, are guys treating the saw like it's just a cabinet saw with a big miter gauge. It's almost embarrassing watching two guys struggle to muscle larger panels over the top of the cross cut fence because they refuse to learn a better way.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have a straight line rip so my slider gets used for mostly solid wood joinery work. I use the parallel fence when high precision is needed on mitered pieces or parts that cannot be sized at the planer. To me the parallel fence would be too much setup for every rip. I use a simple F&F for a lot of rips using the rip fence pulled back as a bump stop. Here is a Instagram post showing ripping out small 5mm X 5mm glass beads using this method. Swipe right to see the ripping.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B5nULujgwML/?igshid=au6fnuttkeh4

Narrow and wide mitered parts can be done using the parallel stops. Here is cutting some thin mitered barnwood edges for a door.
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[Patrick Walsh]

That’s a great idea with the fence as a bump stop on the glass beed.

I’ve always just used sliders to cut two clean edges, I then use rip fence to get my width then back to crosscut to get my length, on big parts or sheet stock that is. On small stuff like that mitered door skin I can usually just pull that off on a regular cabinet saw with or without feather boards or the slider form that matter not on the carriage. And or the shaper but that’s a lot of work for a few rips..

I may be not in the know with the parallel fences having never used them but it seems like way to much setup for something that can be done by just using the rip fence.


I have a straight line rip so my slider gets used for mostly solid wood joinery work. I use the parallel fence when high precision is needed on mitered pieces or parts that cannot be sized at the planer. To me the parallel fence would be too much setup for every rip. I use a simple F&F for a lot of rips using the rip fence pulled back as a bump stop. Here is a Instagram post showing ripping out small 5mm X 5mm glass beads using this method. Swipe right to see the ripping.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B5nULujgwML/?igshid=au6fnuttkeh4

Narrow and wide mitered parts can be done using the parallel stops. Here is cutting some thin mitered barnwood edges for a door.
436062
436063
436064

[Jim Becker]

Jim,

This is exactly what I'm trying to sort out, partially because the slider I'm considering requires 14' side-to-side in its largest format. I'm trying to see if I can reduce that footprint by getting a smaller outfeed table, or not using one at all. I've got 11.5' to work with, so it will be pretty tight.


I cut my outfeed table down by 16" because the 50" or so caused a space issue in my shop because of an unfortunately located stairway. Once I did that, I could keep my outrigger on full time and not have to crawl under it...which is not something I enjoy with my knees/hips at this point in my life. (Note: this panoramic photo makes the shop space look a LOT more generous than it really is...)

https://zfyzua.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mWBwCCeHA5NKat_vVZm8t8oTZo_KF-fM6P6U5flGUR2R63x_VDtwIQ5fmT5HTe9n8ud11Vj7b-DxrAcCXWvW1bE_DjKdJiVtm0s4xPqubDAvOH9koQMTSU2_7iKZ ClakwolH741iUxXvKB3pzD5HvtJiaO9vzR2G21WmMGjZD_ftku YjyoXbpwkCsBZxfGM3VYyio_ZWWTkQ8qQBTFaJzGg?width=66 0&height=299&cropmode=none

[Rod Sheridan]

As others have said the conventional rip fence works well and can do long/short and low/high.

I also use a F&F jig or an edging shoe for straight line rip and parallel or non parallel ripping......Regards, Rod.

[Mark e Kessler]

I have no problems ripping with the fence, don’t do it a lot but never an issue.
pretty much follow the same procedures as Joe C with same setup ( minus the Martin saw, darnit!

if you check out my ig feed you will find a lot of slider videos demonstrating lots of different setups
https://www.instagram.com/kessler_woodworks/?hl=en

[David Stone (CT)]

For those who use the rip fence for ripping solid wood but have sliding saws where the fixed portion of the table projects way out front on the saw, thereby making it impossible to stand in the conventional left-of-the-blade like on a cabinet saw while pushing the stock through: where do you stand to make these rips? By way of experiment, I tried using the rip fence while standing on the left side of my (turned off) saw and it felt like it'd be awkward, especially passing over the blade, even with a push stick. Not having any experience other than a small format saw where this isn't an issue, I'm just curious.

[Mark e Kessler]

You just stand to the to the left, right up against the slider. I personally don’t think it’s that awkward, i know others do but its not done that often anyways, the goal is to always use the slider for the cuts and sometimes that involves using a fritz and franz or a parallel guide, most of the time I use the rip fence is because its a quick cut and I am to lazy to pull out the ff, and thats real lazy because its not that much effort...


For those who use the rip fence for ripping solid wood but have sliding saws where the fixed portion of the table projects way out front on the saw, thereby making it impossible to stand in the conventional left-of-the-blade like on a cabinet saw while pushing the stock through: where do you stand to make these rips? By way of experiment, I tried using the rip fence while standing on the left side of my (turned off) saw and it felt like it'd be awkward, especially passing over the blade, even with a push stick. Not having any experience other than a small format saw where this isn't an issue, I'm just curious.

[Kevin Jenness]

I stand to the left of the carriage and lean over. It is a bit awkward, and an incentive to rip on the wagon when possible.I'm used to it and not bothered, but my saw's carriage is relatively narrow. For some cuts like ripping thin strips off a wide board you can pull the fence back using it as a bump stock while holding the board down on the carriage, as in Joe's post. For those with the room and the budget a separate ripsaw is nice, whether a cabinet saw, straightline rip saw or bandsaw.

[Patrick Walsh]

The answer is to the left of the blade, or to the right it depends.

For solid wood as that the question it again depends. If it a smallish piece like 6-12” wide and a few feet long the left of the carriage. And yes you reach over the blade and yes I do it all the time without a push stick even with skinny rips and yes you get as used to it after a while as you are used to a cabinet saw now.

If a larger piece or sheet stock after using the carriage to put a straight line on it I tend to stand on the right of the carriage. And yes even that feels a bit weird at first. Not sure why as it’s exactly the same as a cabinet saw “but it does” but you also get very used to it.

I was just ripping up 12/4 16”x12’ sticks the other day and I did that to the right of the carriage for rip cuts.

I also just purchased a 18 rip specific and crosscut specific blade for my saw as that is how often I use it for the task hence how comfortable I have come to feel doing so. I did not always feel that way.

=
For those who use the rip fence for ripping solid wood but have sliding saws where the fixed portion of the table projects way out front on the saw, thereby making it impossible to stand in the conventional left-of-the-blade like on a cabinet saw while pushing the stock through: where do you stand to make these rips? By way of experiment, I tried using the rip fence while standing on the left side of my (turned off) saw and it felt like it'd be awkward, especially passing over the blade, even with a push stick. Not having any experience other than a small format saw where this isn't an issue, I'm just curious.

[Dave Cav]

Since I have a full size slider it would be very awkward to rip with the fence from the left. I suppose I could lean all the way over the wagon, but I've never tried. What I do is stand to the right of the blade and rip mostly with my left hand. That keeps me out of the kickback zone, and after teaching shop for a few years I got to where I could do most shop tasks reasonably well with either hand.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a short stroke slider, the Hammer K3 with a 1250mm wagon. For my purposes, which is working with solid wood and building one-off pieces of furniture, this particular saw is perfect.

https://i.postimg.cc/L6hNJDzn/Hammer.jpg

As I have measured, it will rip a 53" long board on the wagon. Of course, any length is possible when using the rip fence.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece1_html_m1a5762fd.jpg


I also have the JessEm Clearcut Guides on the rip fence. These force the workpiece against the fence, and this creates a very clean rip cut ..

https://i.postimg.cc/VLGK100n/Y1a.jpg

There are a number of fixtures for the slider, the principal one being the Fritz and Franz. I use this as well, especially when cleaning up one side of a rough cut board.

Another fixture is one I made quickly to taper table legs. This made easy work and a perfect result ...

https://i.postimg.cc/GpyTpTXj/legs8.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike King]

Lamb tool works parallel guides are the bomb! Highly recommended...

[Erik Loza]

I rarely take issue with anything you say, Erik, but here my personal experience is that ripping with parallel guides/Fritz & Franz is very effective and provides a nearly "perfect" edge compared to use the rip fence. Yes, for long narrow rips like sub-two inches, the fence is a bit easier...I'll agree with you on that...and using the guides isn't as fast as using the rip fence. But I try to rip for quality rather than speed since I'm creating components with the saw...I don't tend to go back to the jointer as a result of that quality cut on the wagon..

Jim, you are 100% right. I completely didn't think of the F&F jig!

Erik

[Chris Fournier]

Get your slider! Then use it and learn how you can get the best results in you r shop. In my opinion there is no need for a third party accessory to allow you to rip with ease. Use your machine before you decide tht you need extras.

[Joe Jensen]

It took me a few years to learn how to get the most from my Sliding saw. I now have Lamb Tool Works parallel cutting jigs and Mac's Air clamps. It's hard to describe the quality of cut when stock is clamped to the slider and cut that way. Perfectly straight, and I mean perfect. Smooth enough to be compared to the surface off a jointer. When using a sliding table saw like a conventional table saw IMHO it's a lesser machine. Sure I rip some stuff, but mostly stuff where I don't care about perfect, like when I plan to run that edge over some other machine. I do have a 9 ft slider so I can do full 8 ft sheets with clamps. With the parallel jigs and air clamps and careful setup I was able to cut 30 pcs of MDF that were 47" long and 3" wide so perfectly that I doubt there was more than .001-.003" of variance. Needed this for a vacuum clamping fixture. In the past with a cabinet saw even though I was super careful I'd need to spend a lot of time with a belt sander or large disc sander to flatten.

[derek labian]

Jim,

This is exactly what I'm trying to sort out, partially because the slider I'm considering requires 14' side-to-side in its largest format. I'm trying to see if I can reduce that footprint by getting a smaller outfeed table, or not using one at all. I've got 11.5' to work with, so it will be pretty tight.

Hi Ned,

Curious what you eventually did. Did you use the outfeed at all, cut it down, or keep it intact (not sure how that would fit)?

[Ned Otter]

Hi Derek,

I partially solved this problem by not using the rip fence at all, so I didn't install the long metal tube that the rip fence rides on.

But even with that, using the outrigger plus the supplied fence makes me have to crawl under things to get in/out of that area. The outrigger alone allows me enough room to walk around things, so I probably just need a shorter fence.

I did purchase a parallel fence from Lamb toolworks, and a set of AirClamps from Mac (didn't receive the clamps yet).

Still figuring things out here, my equipment has only been wired up for a few weeks.

Ned

[Jim Becker]

Ned, I originally had that "crawl under" problem in my old shop because of how things were arranged relative to a pesky stairwell that took up space and where the saw was located relative to the J/P. My solution was to shorten the right-side table by 16" and that generally solved the issue. I don't know that I could tolerate not having the rip fence because there are times when it's still the right tool for the job, but I certainly don't need one that sticks out a mile to the right! Even with the much more open space I'll have with the new shop building, I may still reduce the right side because it will never get used anyway for cutting.

[Ned Otter]

Jim - I didn't even attach that table, and I still have to crawl under the wagon, so the only potential solution in my case is to shorten the fence that rests on the wagon, perhaps 3rd party.

Mind you I'm not getting rid of the rip fence, the solid bar it travels on, or the table that gets me out to 5 feet rip capacity. Might have a need for them down the road, and they don't take up much space in the shop.

[Michael Schuch]

I guess it depends on the rip fence that comes with your saw. The fence that came on my 80's vintage Casedei sliding table saw weighs about 60-70lbs, puts my commercial Biesemeyer fence to shame and is extremely stiff. I would wait until your new saw comes in then evaluate the fence. Just like regular table saws I am sure sliding table saws come with a wide variety of different fences of differing quality and stiffness.

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The fence has a bearing mounted on an eccentric that allows my to raise the fence high enough to clear most saw dust issues.
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My saw has a 52" sliding table. I have just started using the saw and still have to make a sliding table fence for it. So far if the cut is under 50" I clamp the piece to the sliding table. If the rip cut is longer than 50" I use the rip fence that came with the saw. For breaking down whole sheets I still use my track saw.

All the advice I read on sliding table saws kind of boiled down to: don't buy any accessories for your saw until you actually have your saw and have used your saw. Everyone's usage will be slightly different so you need to find what works best for you.

[Ned Otter]

Hi Derek,

In case it helps, I'm attaching some photos of "today's version" of how I'm moving stuff around to accommodate the slider.

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Please let me know if you have any questions --

thx,

Ned

[Kevin Jenness]

Well, everyone finds their own way around the barn, but I would find the lack of a rip fence a real inconvenience on a slider. Even if I never ripped anything longer than the carriage travel, it is extremely useful as a bump stop. You might be able to cut your fence bar and use a tight-fitting plug and grub screws so the pieces could be rejoined in the future. I would probably cut the crosscut fence shorter as well for use in that narrow space.

[Derek Cohen]

Ned, your space is even tighter than mine! I can back my car out to create a reasonably roomy shop space … but only as my slider is half the size of yours! :)

I agree with others, such as Kevin: the rip fence is an important part of the saw for us. I fear that you are missing out, even if just using the rip fence as a bump stop. For example, it is efficient to straighten an edge on a parallel guide, and then switch to the rip fence to saw to width. This is one set up only.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

There is a very simple solution to your issue here, Ned...you need to make your shop bigger. :D :D :D

[Ned Otter]

Ned, your space is even tighter than mine! I can back my car out to create a reasonably roomy shop space … but only as my slider is half the size of yours! :)

I agree with others, such as Kevin: the rip fence is an important part of the saw for us. I fear that you are missing out, even if just using the rip fence as a bump stop. For example, it is efficient to straighten an edge on a parallel guide, and then switch to the rip fence to saw to width. This is one set up only.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek - my shop is 11.5 feet from bottom sill to bottom sill. I can squeeze a bit more space, maybe 4" if I don't have any insulation in the wall cavity. I wanted to be able to handle an 8 foot board on each machine (think garden beds), and the photos show that it can be done. My shop is circa 1860, one structure on an old farm, narrow but long.

I recently saw an interesting video - can't remember where - showing use of a magnetic base as a bump stock. How it was accurately positioned was not explained!

Just beginning my adventures with this equipment, not sure how things will end up, but for the moment, I'm not missing the rip fence.

[Ned Otter]

There is a very simple solution to your issue here, Ned...you need to make your shop bigger. :D :D :D

Agreed !!!