Ebay Lasers

[Randy Walker]

I currently have a Universal VLS-230 30 watt laser.
Its been a great little money maker but the tube is needing to be re-charged again. That's another $1000 into this machine. I have been seriously considering upgrading to something with a larger bed size and more power (60 watts). I have been checking some of the offerings on eBay and for the money they are very inviting. By what I have been reading here it looks like several of you may have one (or more) of these machines. What I would like to know is what all of you think of these machines. Do they work as well as some of the more expensive machines. I know I will need to replace the glass tubes more frequently but it's much easier to come up with $250 and do it myself, than it is to have a week or more of down time and spend a$1000 every 4 years.

There's also the cost. I have $2500 that I can invest right now. I do not have $25000 or more to invest. I'd much prefer an American machine I just can't afford one of them. I would really like some of your opinions. Are these imported lasers worth messing with or should I stay away from them?

Curiously
Randy Walker

[Kev Williams]

If the Universal IS a 'money maker', then fix it, AND buy an eBay machine. I have a thread where my 2004 LS900's tube finally called it quits. I'm doing the $1000 recharge-the-tube thing as we speak. Sounds like a lot, but I spend $1500-$2000 every year just on Cermark, and my Delvie's bill for Rowmark is around $1500 every month.

That said, I have a big Chinese (Triumph) 80w machine I've had for 6-1/2 years, I'm very happy with it. But it hasn't been 'flawless', about 2-1/2 years a stepper wire in the Y axis drag chain broke, resulting in some nasty noises and actions. Was hard to troubleshoot because Triumph had never come across this problem before, AND they had a guy in Mexico with a similar machine doing the same thing, and didn't know what to do for either of us... I eventually tracked it down myself and Triumph was happy with me ;) -Last year the controller went out- actually it worked, I could run old saved jobs in its memory, but it wouldn't take any USB input. $350 for a new one, from Ebay :) And 2 of my 3 fiber lasers I bought via Ebay. If you do your due diligence with examining the sellers, and you're mechanically inclined, and Ebay purchase could do you well. But fix the Uni too! :D

[Randy Walker]

I'm still looking at the eBay lasers and the only big difference I can see is in the controllers. One of them is listed as a "DSP" controller, the other is listed as a "Ruidia" controller by RDWorks V8. Is there a difference in these units? Is one better than the other or easier to use?
I would also like to hear from anyone that has experience with these machines. The machines I have been looking at are from "Orion Motor Tech, Vevor, and Morphon Laser". Can anyone tell me about these companies?.
Something else I have a few questions about is laser power. The price difference between the 60 watt and the 80 watt machines is not that much. Which is better? I intend to buy a water chiller to go with the machine so temperature shouldn't be a problem.
I would appreciate any information good or bad I can get about these machines.
Kev I like your advise about fixing the universal. I will probably do that as soon as I can get back to regular business.

Many thanks to all
Randy Walker

[Kev Williams]

Get the 80 over the 60, simply because you can still engrave decent with 80 watts AND cut faster and/or thicker materials than with 60. Once above 80 watts, 'delicate' raster engraving is tough due to a glass tube's inability to fire consistently at power to tube feed current below ~6mA, which is roughly 30 watts output with a 120w tube. The 500-700mm/second engraving speeds aren't fast enough to compensate for the extra power needed for consistent firing...

I believe "DSP" refers to 'Digital Signal Processor', which all controllers are. One other popular controller brand is Leetro. My Triumph uses a Puhan controller, which I don't see very often. Probably the main difference in them is they all use their own proprietary software. Lightburn software is aftermarket software that will work with certain controllers. I don't have any experience with it other than what users say, run a search for it, you should find plenty of info...

[Jerome Stanek]

I bought a 139 watt 1060 from the seller Goldraydigital on Ebay that I am very happy with. When I ordered mine it was on a Friday and I picked it up on Tuesday the next week from Fedex I could have waited Wednesday for Fedex to deliver but I was going to be gone part of that day and Fedex is only 1/2 hour away. I did have a problem with the chiller that Goldraydigital took care of quickly. Just had to send a video of what it was doing and they sent me the parts that took 1 week total but I used my other chiller in the mean time.

[Steve Utick]

Ultimately, Ruida is by far the most popular controller, and best supported out there. LightBurn, which Kev references was designed around Ruida. It supports a lot of different controllers now, but Ruida is best supported. The Ruida controller is a "DSP" controller. If you end up with a Ruida controller, I'd definitely take a look at LightBurn over RDWorks that comes with them by default. There are a number of laser manufacturers that are including LightBurn with their lasers now by default as well. You can see a list of the different major controllers and their LightBurn support here: https://lasergods.com/controller-dsp-identification/

[Randy Walker]

Thank you everyone for your post, there all very helpful. Steve the controller link was especially helpful.
I have used Corel draw for years and plan to continue using it. I have seen that Corel also has a laser control program. I thought that I would check it out as well. I like the idea of a program like 'Light Burn' that the manufacturer recommends too because if there is a problem hopefully they will have a fix for it.
Kev your thoughts about getting the 80 watt over the 60 watt were very helpful. I have a client already that uses materials that my 30 watt can't handle. I know that I will get additional work from him that will make the 80 watt machine pay off. I was concerned about fine detail though as I occasionally do wedding invitations and memorabilia items that require delicate cuts and fine lines.

Many thanks to all
Randy Walker

P.S. My wife has insisted that I stop researching this to death and buy one. So it looks like I will be purchasing an 80 watt with a Ruidia controller, Light Burn software and a rotary device for doing cups and glasses. I will buy a chiller asap but for now I have a large reservoir and plenty of ice to get started with. Any thoughts on chillers?

[Rich Harman]

Get an S&A CW-5200 Chiller, not a 5000, 4000 or 3000.

As for the laser tube, get a Reci or EFR. My nine year old Reci 80W is still working like new - and that includes running it six minutes one time at full power with no water.

[Randy Walker]

Rich
Can you tell me more about the chillers. Why the cw-5200. It looks to be one of the more expensive ones available. I intend to have a large (about 8 gallon) reservoir that I can ad ice to if I am running a big job. The machine will also be in a heated and cooled environment with plenty of ventilation.

very curious
Randy Walker

[Jerome Stanek]

I have the 5000 chiller and it works just fine the 5200 has 2 in and out connections that I didn't need. At one time the 5000 had problems with leaking but I think they got that fixed.

[Rich Harman]

No, it is the the 5202 that has two in and out connections not the 5200.

I used to have a 5000, it was okay but the 5200 is better, you should be able to get one for about $500. Cloudray has them for $436. Actually the newer 5000s are probably fine, just not enough cooling power for my 130W tube.

A bucket of water will work - it is what I did when the 5000 broke down but if you are using it more than occasionally it will be one more source of inconsistency and possibly failure if something goes wrong.

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Just avoid the bottom of the cheap range chinese ones.
They are cheap for the simple reason of using junky components.
Lightburn is good.
But I use Corel and go to RDworks from Corel - no probs at all. RDW is just crummy for editing vectors etc.
Lightburn is way best for image work ie pictures.
We also have an old ULS that still has its uses. It cost way more to recharge the tube 2 years ago than you'd pay in USA though. It was still worth it.

[Kev Williams]

Rich
Can you tell me more about the chillers. Why the cw-5200. It looks to be one of the more expensive ones available. I intend to have a large (about 8 gallon) reservoir that I can ad ice to if I am running a big job. The machine will also be in a heated and cooled environment with plenty of ventilation.

very curious
Randy Walker


Here's my old chiller setup, a 3000 'radiator' chiller and a storage box with about 15' of coiled 3/8" copper tubing covered with ice water-
438669 438670
--note-- that ice is probably 20 minutes old, and could barely keep the water below 23c while engraving Cermarked stainless.
I lived with this nonsense for about 3 years before I got my S&A 5200...
438671
--Once acclimated (about 1 minute), I've never seen the temp below 19.1c or above 20.9c. Ever. I just check the water and filters once in awhile.
Water's still good after 3 years, I've cleaned the filters once.

Not having to fuss around with ice water, worth every penny :)

[Randy Walker]

I see what you mean with the water bucket. Its exactly what I have in mind to use. I will plan that chiller in to my upgrades as soon as I have cash to make it happen. Since this is a new machine with a new operating system I will probably be back here asking more questions about how to do things on it. Especially how to get the rotary device calibrated.
I have a delivery notice for next Monday for the new laser. For now I am completely rearranging part of my shop to accept this new machine plus making room for some future possible expansion plans. I think that I may have a lead on some sublimation work that could pay well. I also have an old client that occasionally has small run CNC parts work. They are never more than 24 inches in any direction so a small CNC might be in my future too.

Thanks to all
Randy Walker

For those of you who have seen my shop:
I am not a hoarder. I am just enthusiastically frugal!
I have learned this from trying clean up my shop to make room for the new laser.

[Randy Walker]

OK. The machine is here and hooked up. I have a CW5000dg chiller on order. In the mean time I would like to start using it with my ice bucket method just to begin learning how it works. I am currently using Corel 8 as a drawing program. Ill be using a thumb drive to transfer files, but I don't know how to control the laser in my current version of Corel. Should I buy a laser controller version of Corel, or use a different program like Lightburn? Please give me your thoughts and suggestions. I already have a work for it and plenty more prospects on the horizon.

Many thanks to all
Randy Walker

P.S. I also have a rotary attachment. I'm going to need some instruction on how to use that thing too.

[Kev Williams]

You can't control the laser with Corel, you have to control it with the program that came with it, usually RD works or Lasercut or whatever their names are ;)

Because their programs are just plain hard to work with as you would in Corel, their main function is to act as a print driver, setting speed, power, etc...

Most programs have a plug-in where you design in Corel, then using the plug-in (which is my case ends up as an icon in the upper menu bar) you transfer what's on your Corel screen to the machine's program. Then it goes from there...