Wooden Mitre Box, or Stanley 150 Type Thing?

[Erich Weidner]

I would like to have something for picture framing. I was using the SCMS, but it is pain to get the cut in just the right place.
I see vintage Mitre saws/things like the Stanley 150, also just a 45 degree cut in a bench hook or two sided U shaped wooden mitre box.

My cuts are still not dead on 90 degrees. Require some refinement. I guess a jig or Stanley 150 type thing would make this in one cut w/o needing to shoot or clean up the mitre?

I don't see myself doing much more than picture frames. I doubt I"ll be doing crown molding anytime soon. What are other folks using?

[Stew Denton]

Erich, back when I was working for a carpenter we had a good metal miter box and also had used the wooden ones with slots cut in them.

The problem with the wooden ones is they have a bit too much slop when new, and they wear in use to where the accuracy of the box becomes pretty poor.

I can't speak about the bench hook type from actual use, so will have to forgo comments on that type.

I can say that when cutting molding for carpentry, when using a good metal miter box and back saw, that the end grade portion of the molding that you cut, especially if it is a soft wood, will be "fuzzy." It will not be extremely smooth on the end.

When you are talking about window or door casing this fuzzy end grain will cause the joint to be less tight than you would like, but it is not nearly as critical as it would be with picture frames. Some times I would do some trimming of the resulting end grain with a sharp utility knife or maybe some sandpaper if I remember correctly. That was almost 50 years ago, and I can't be absolutely sure about using sandpaper, but am fairly sure I did use it some.

At any rate what I am saying is that you may not get around having to do some shooting. My experience with the good miter box back then, and with my current vintage Millers Falls Langdon miter box is that to get "perfect" joints you may still have to fool with it some.

Millers Falls, and others as well I think, made miter boxes that were specifically designed for cutting picture frames. There are currently several listed on that auction site. If you do a search on it for "picture frame miter box," some will show up. Other companies besides Millers Falls also made them if I recall correctly.

Another thing that will help is the use of something like a small SHARP back saw like a 12" or 14" with a lot of teeth, may a 15 or 18 point, with the minimal amount of set that will work. That kind of saw will only work with a fairly small miter box, like the ones made for picture frames and the like.

If I were wanting to buy one, I would be interested in a vintage model rather than a more modern one.

Regards,

Stew

[Erich Weidner]

Stew,

I guess the rub is that on my power SCMS the joints produced were perfectly adequate for glue up right off the saw (it is a decent saw blade). I'd hate it if I couldn't get a similar result by hand saw alone. But if it is, that is what it is.

[Jim Koepke]

I would like to have something for picture framing.

How many picture frames are you planning?

For serious work you may want something like this:

435234

This is in no way an endorsement of this product. There are many other brands, including on the used market. These other makes and models may be more appropriate for your needs.

This was found at an estate sale promoters warehouse sale:

435235

My recollection is it came home for $5. Besides it there are two other miter boxes in the shop and the parts for another. This miter box and saw would likely cost more to ship than it is worth.

If there are junk dealers or second hand dealers in your area, it is good to get to know them. My rust hunting time over the year is less than an hour a week. Sometimes it is none for weeks. Sometimes Candy goes with me for a ride on a sunny weekend looking for promising yard sales. It is just getting to find places along your regular travels. Some of the folks on my travels have some interesting stuff, and the turnover is happening.

For picture framing you will likely want to also use a shooting board for the best fit.

Here is an old post of mine that uses a shooting board set up to fit molding > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?224747

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

Jim,

I don't do a ton of picture frames normally. But right now I have a backlog of about 6 frames to make. I have all the stuff for glazing them and mat cutting. I just can't spend $300 to have a double or triple mat frame done at a shop. It hurts my soul. :)

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

I don't do a ton of picture frames normally. But right now I have a backlog of about 6 frames to make. I have all the stuff for glazing them and mat cutting. I just can't spend $300 to have a double or triple mat frame done at a shop. It hurts my soul. :)

Are you buying ready to go framing material and just need to cut and assemble?

If you can set up a shooting board, the sawing doesn't have to be dead on accurate. You could use a simple set up for sawing the ends.

Do you have a back saw or other saw for cutting miters?

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

Are you buying ready to go framing material and just need to cut and assemble?

If you can set up a shooting board, the sawing doesn't have to be dead on accurate. You could use a simple set up for sawing the ends.

Do you have a back saw or other saw for cutting miters?

jtk

I do both, ready made frames, and solid wood that I shape in the shop.

I don't currently have a shooting board set up for 45 degree cuts. Also, with the premade frames, spelching at the ends from shooting wouldn't be sightly.

[Phil Mueller]

If you get good miters off the power saw, you may just want to stick with that.

I have dialed in my Millers Falls miter box to the best of my ability and still find the need to shoot the ends for a perfect fit. On these vintage boxes, the saw was tuned to the specific box it was sold with (primarily tooth set to track perfect for the box). It’s rare to find this match in the vintage market. Invariably, even though the miter box itself is set up perfectly, there is a good chance the saw will track slightly off...unless you take the time to dial in the saw.

My standard procedure for picture frame miters is to cut a hair long on the miter box and either shoot it to length, or use a vintage miter trimmer like the one Jim posted above. As you mentioned, blowing out a chip from shooting is always a possibility...so the miter trimmer eliminates that possibility and provides a glass smooth cut.

Alternatively, I’ve seen a number of nice frames made with lap or bridle joints, which eliminate the miter cut altogether. I also saw a video from a guy that makes smaller frames from a solid board...cutting out the inside...

[Jim Matthews]

A robust Japanese "pull saw" without a stiffening spine can through cut to any depth.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/questions-and-answers/pull-saw-miter-box/

[Frederick Skelly]

If you can set up a shooting board, the sawing doesn't have to be dead on accurate. You could use a simple set up for sawing the ends.

jtk

+1. Handsaw, a sharp hand plane and a shooting board works very well for me.

[Blake M Williams]

Look up images of shooting boards and see the end grain of the pieces. I have added this to my must have list. Fine saw is a must too. I restored a miter box but I have recently learned that just using that crazy long fine tooth saw against a batten is awesome. Straight easy cuts. But a shooting board would make the cuts smoother.

[chris carter]

I have a 150. I do not use it for precision cuts. It’s entirely possible that mine is defective, but essentially while it has been 100% dead on with cutting angle, the nature of the spring mechanism means that it allows some “play” vertically. When setting the spring side, it kind of produces a subtle angle that I have not been able to adjust away. So when I make my cut, I have to give the saw a subtle twist toward the non-spring side that is the fixed side of the guide and is dead vertical.

The advantage of the 150 is that it is compact which is what I love about it. I don’t have a ton of space and don’t want a giant miter box taking up space. It also will accept almost any saw which makes it very flexible. But I would consider it a carpentry tool. I would absolutely cut crown molding with it or window casings. But I would not cut furniture pieces or picture frames with it without expecting to have to do a lot of shooting. Generally speaking, I can make more accurate cuts by hand than with the 150. There are other miter boxes out there that are far less convenient and flexible, but considerably more accurate vertically.

If I were going to start a side-business making picture frames I would buy a miter trimmer in less than a second.

[Winston Chang]

I've never used one of these, but there's also the David Barron 45 degree magnetic saw guide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BwJmKJOUhY

I came across a thread on this forum from several years back where people got worked up about the Barron dovetail guide being a crutch, but since we're already talking about miter boxes and shooting boards here, the 45-degree guide should be fair game. :D

[steven c newman]

IF the Stanley #150 is adjusted the way it is supposed to be....cuts will be ready right off the saw. One tip: add a narrow strip between the part and the fence....any "fuzz will show up on the strip, instead of the part.

I usually use my Stanley #358...even on mitre cuts....doesn't take very many full length strokes of the sharp saw, to make a cut...

Take the same kind of care to set up the mitre box, as you would any other "machine"...they work just fine...do NOT buy the Jorgenson style ones....the ones that look like a giant hacksaw blade....too flexy..

[Erich Weidner]

I've decided to sell my power SCMS to free up the shop space. I'm however now back re-reading this thread and am still not really clear on what my best option is. I looked on ebay just now and I don't see many options for a vintage dedicated picture frame saw.

Though I don't anticipate working on crown moulding or making octagonal frames... it might be nice to have the option if I'm going through the trouble of getting a miter saw.
Do the vintage general purpose things like the Stanly 150 just make rough cuts? Or is it just that one might need to have the saw retoothed for finer work.

I wonder what the originals were used for, if they don't make good clean cuts as some in this thread have indicated? Seems like if one had to take the wood to the shooting board after using the miter saw anyway, why not just freehand cut it and shoot to precise line?

[Erich Weidner]

Anyone use the Bad Axe 20" Miter saw? As I was posting here a memory was jogged. It seems they make a saw which sounds like it should work on the Stanley 150, and they describe it as...

"miter saw's toothline at 12 ppi x-cut on a .025 plate, which, when combined with our method of hammer-setting and gently dressing the teeth, gives you a superbly finished cut."

I have some other Bad Axe saws and like them. Though I'm reluctant to wait 3-5 months to get one... (Still waiting on a months old Blue Spruce order... kind of getting annoyed. If there is that much business maybe hire more people. :) )

[Rafael Herrera]

The mitre box will get you close, if you are doing carpentry, that is probably good enough. For picture frames, one needs a pristine cut. A shooting board will let you finish the cut.

[Jim Koepke]

The mitre box will get you close, if you are doing carpentry, that is probably good enough. For picture frames, one needs a pristine cut. A shooting board will let you finish the cut.

If the miter box doesn't get you there a little touch up on a shooting board made for 45º will.

Here is an old post of mine > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?224747 < Scroll down for a simple set up on a regular shooting board to shoot angles.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

Anyone use the Bad Axe 20" Miter saw? As I was posting here a memory was jogged. It seems they make a saw which sounds like it should work on the Stanley 150, and they describe it

The original saws provided with these miter boxes were fine. They're commonplace and cheap.

The distance between the tooth line and backing spline make them heavy, and difficult to handle.

[Kevin Adams]

IF the Stanley #150 is adjusted the way it is supposed to be....cuts will be ready right off the saw.

Hi Steven (and anyone else),

i recently bought what appears to be a really nice 150. How do you set up the saw between the guides? In other words, do you pinch the guides so they are snug against the saw or what? And is there a good way of judging the height the saw should be set within the guides? I am getting a fair amount of side to side play and not sure if my set up is wrong or what. Right now I’m using a regular carcase saw before I get something dedicated for it like a miter saw.

Thanks!
Kevin

[steven c newman]

There should be a thumbscrew to adjust the guide plate. The left side guide is suppose to have a flat metal spring (looks like a strip of metal banding strap, with a bend in the middle) you adjust the right side until the guide is snugged to the saw. Sometimes a drop of light oil to help the saw slide.

You set the height of the saw to where the saw's teeth just barely scratch the wooden deck. There should be a wooden roller in back of the frame, this also prevent a saw from cutting any metal parts of the frame.

[Tony Zaffuto]

If the flat metal strip is missing, you'll have difficulty getting accurate cuts. The Stanley 150 is a gem of a miter box, and if set-up correctly (along with a correctly set-up saw), as Steve said, can result in cuts ready for glue. A shooting board is an immense help for tweaking, as is a Lion style miter cutter.

Cost wise? Nice 150 from "the bay" will set you back $50 to $100, depending upon the day. A nice vintage backsaw, tuned up by a pro, another $100. Shooting board, zero, as it is made from scraps and zero for the plane, as you would have one anyways! If you go the route of a miter trimmer, well, $200 will get you one from Highland or Rockler, but really the shooting board will cost you only time.

I would also put time into making a glue-up jig, something as simple as a piece of MDF, with stock on just two sides, glued/screwed perfectly square, so you have a reference to clamp to. Look at Woodcraft and their Kreg or Armor glue tables for ideas, and again, these are very simple to make for little to no cost.

[chris carter]

I have a 150. It’s actually the Jacobs which Stanley bought and stamped their name on and changed nothing else. It was in great shape. Mine does have some play along the vertical axis. The right side of the little vise is perfectly vertical, but the spring loaded left side that screws down onto the saw plate allows some play in the saw vertically as it applies more pressure to the top while the bottom has no pressure on it (or there is a teeny-weeny gap). In order to make a perfectly straight up and down cut I have to apply a little bit of counter-clockwise pressure with my wrist to ensure the saw stays flush to the right side. Otherwise I can wind up with an 89* cut. If there is a solution to this, I don’t know what it is, but I would LOVE someone to provide one!! Along the bed though, it does cut insanely straight. I rarely use it and when I do it’s typically for rough work or when I need to cut a ton of small pieces where the stop block is useful.

I believe the 150 is intended for carpentry work. I imagine the tiny format and ability to accept virtually any say, makes it great for that purpose. Unless I’m doing something fundamentally wrong or my box has some kind of defect, I would say then yeah, it’s for carpentry. In that capacity, cut quality is not really an issue and that's not where I'd blow all my saw money.

But I will say this: it’s the absolute coolest looking tool in my basement!

[steven c newman]

I prefer a slightly larger version...
439320
Stanley No. 358.

[Jim Koepke]

Erich, one problem with purchasing a saw and miter box off of ebay is the shipping may cost more than the miter box and saw is worth. The second problem is the saw will likely need to be sharpened and tuned.

Your best bet may be to find a used tool dealers or "junk dealers" in your area.

Also look for estate sale companies > https://www.estatesales.net/companies/TX/Austin/78745 < should cover your local area. Checking on one of my local sale companies got me a Langdon economy model and saw for $5.

Some will have email lists where they will post images of upcoming sales.

Good luck,

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Or you could make a u shaped trough about 3" tall. Then take a miter square, place it on top of the u and saw vertical cuts to the bottom of the u.
It will be 45 degrees every time. I also place the square flat on the board and use it as a guide. After about 3 strokes you do not need the square.

[Tony Zaffuto]

For the 150, you should not force the saw into a cut! adjust the saw plates so the saw can move, maybe spraying them with WD-40 or a dry-coat lubricant, but don't force the saw into a cut. The simplicity of the 150 is what makes it so good: google Stanley 150 instructions and they will readily come up, showing you what to adjust, but if you are only off 1 degree, I would wager your saw plates need a bit of attention, or the flat spring.

As an addendum to Jim's post, miter boxes are readily available at flea markets, usually for cheap. Shipping them is expensive and if not packed correctly, can easily damage the fragile cast iron. For anyone in central PA, I have a few I recused that could use a new home, but they would be pick-up only. To ship one correctly, would involve building a wooden box.

[steven c newman]

Hmmm...
439322
One could take this out of the tool chest...
439323
Unfold it....add the saw of your choice..
439324

Called a GEM Mitre box. It has adjustable metal guides that you adjust to the thickness of the saw's plate....if the wood is a bit worn from all the use, you can simply start a new cut with the saw you are using..
439325
Clamp it to your bench, screw it to the top of a sawhorse...fold it back up when done, and stow it away.
It will take just about any saw...does not need to be a backsaw. I have used a 20" panel saw in it before....
Rather limited....will only cut a 90 degree and a 45 degree cut.
439326
When the deck is getting too worn out...simple matter to make new ones....just remember to drill the hole...it uses a brass rod through the decks, to keep the thing from folding up on you...When done sawing, remove the rod to fold it up...rod stows in a hole in one end of a deck board...
439327
Needed it upstairs, after a house fire, for when I was trimming out the closet doorways...

[Rafael Herrera]

Steven,

Is that the aluminum version of the mitre box? Do you like it?

How does it compare with the 60 1/2 mitre box? I've one of these boxes and even though it does a decent cut, it's really not a precision tool.

There is one of these boxes for sale in my area, perhaps a 24x model, at a reasonable price.

[steven c newman]

Lets see, I have the Stanley No. 346, No. 358, and the newer No.2246....and a Langdon No.75 ACME....all are cast iron....and steel. The GEM was wood, with the metal guides and hinge parts.

A #246 box will use a 4" x 26" saw....and is on a #2 size frame...

Last year, when I was building the front porch's railings...I set up the #2246 outside, on top of the Workmate...and cut the angles for the stair railings with it. @ 19 degrees. Seemed to work just fine.

The molding around the tool chest I have just finished building ( The July Project) I use the #358...with a backer board.
439328
Did not need to shoot anything
439329
Although I don't recommend it....
439330
It can do a bit of resaw....once the kerf cuts are made...

[Rafael Herrera]

The seller just told me the model she has, it's a 246. It looks fairly complete, comes with two saws. At 20 pounds it's a heavy beast.

The A358 was the aluminum version, I missed that in your post. Here's the catalog page from the Sweetheart era (https://archive.org/details/StanleyCatalogue341926/page/n130/mode/1up), they were not cheap.

[bill epstein]

It's more Neanderthal, to ease your conscience, than a Chop Saw. April Wilkerson's (who know's where the idea originated) Miter Sled


https://youtu.be/vYNSQR7LCC0

has seen me through many chassis boxes where every corner is 90 degrees every time regardless of a little slop.

[Kevin Adams]

There should be a thumbscrew to adjust the guide plate. The left side guide is suppose to have a flat metal spring (looks like a strip of metal banding strap, with a bend in the middle) you adjust the right side until the guide is snugged to the saw. Sometimes a drop of light oil to help the saw slide.

So does this mean I’m missing the metal spring and I’m screwed? If so, is that a part that’s available or not?

Thanks!
Kevin

439374

[Jack Frederick]

I have the Millers Falls Langdon box which I picked up at the Re-store for $20. Rob Luter was kind enough to send me a couple small parts to complete the unit. I then located a 5” Simon’s Langdon back saw for it. Very smooth and precise. It could have come from the Bad Axe site but I have on my computer somewhere a video of picture frames done on the MF. I’m currently evacuated due to the fires and hope the house and shop are there upon my return to do the search. Fingers crossed! I really enjoy using that box. I am considering a new saw for it as I think the sharpener did it no favors.

[steven c newman]

The reason I said "Metal banding.." is you can take a strip of metal banding, like they use to crate up items...cut a piece, give a nice bend in the middle...and Bob's your Uncle....it is as simple as that.

Just make sure it IS a metal banding, and is close enough to the right width....

[Kevin Adams]

The reason I said "Metal banding.." is you can take a strip of metal banding, like they use to crate up items...cut a piece, give a nice bend in the middle...and Bob's your Uncle....it is as simple as that.

Just make sure it IS a metal banding, and is close enough to the right width....

Thanks, Steven, I’ll have to find a pic of how it fits in the left clamp. I don’t have one in there now, so guess that’s my answer. Is that a common piece to be missing?

Kevin

[Kevin Adams]

I guess that little piece on the bench to the right of the clamp is the bad boy, huh?

439389

[Erich Weidner]

Erich, one problem with purchasing a saw and miter box off of ebay is the shipping may cost more than the miter box and saw is worth. The second problem is the saw will likely need to be sharpened and tuned.

Your best bet may be to find a used tool dealers or "junk dealers" in your area.

Also look for estate sale companies > https://www.estatesales.net/companies/TX/Austin/78745 < should cover your local area. Checking on one of my local sale companies got me a Langdon economy model and saw for $5.


Thanks Jim. I just browsed through a few of the estate sales. Too bad one can't search a list of items. Trying to find a specific tool seems like it would take forever though. But I'm sure that is how one can get something for low dollars vs ebay, and as you mentioned the shipping problems (and expense). I may have to try and check some of these out. My wife certainly was interested in things I was trying to scroll past quickly. ;)

I see that companies run these sales. Are prices generally firm as marked? Or is the expectation to haggle?

[Jim Koepke]

So does this mean I’m missing the metal spring and I’m screwed? If so, is that a part that’s available or not?

Thanks!
Kevin

The metal used in automotive hose clamps may be easier to find than the metal pallet banding. It is also a springier steel.


Thanks Jim. I just browsed through a few of the estate sales. Too bad one can't search a list of items. Trying to find a specific tool seems like it would take forever though. But I'm sure that is how one can get something for low dollars vs ebay, and as you mentioned the shipping problems (and expense). I may have to try and check some of these out. My wife certainly was interested in things I was trying to scroll past quickly. ;)

I see that companies run these sales. Are prices generally firm as marked? Or is the expectation to haggle?

You are welcome.

Good your lady is interested, then she won't mind tagging along and letting you spend some money.

The estate sellers are all different, just like antique dealers and other folks trying to make a buck. If you want to learn to deal, you have to learn how to pick up the clues or probe the seller as you go. If you are in a situation where you can observe how they deal with others you can get a little insight before you step up to the table.

Sometimes it is all in how they respond to a price question. Do they say, "I have to get $X for that," or do they ask, "How does $x sound."

From the buyer side it is easiest to say, "that is more than I was thinking of paying."

Be careful about mentioning or offering a price, they might take it. That would put you in the awkward position of having to buy it if you want them to know you are serious and ready to bargain. Otherwise they may just think you are wasting their time. An 8" swing Stanley brace came home with me for $2 because of that. There are three or four of those in my shop now.

Personally if someone is offended by me suggesting a lower price it might get me to move on to the next sale. This also depends on the tenor of their reaction. It is all part of the big game.

Many of the estate sale facilitators also have stores or warehouses. Some will bring their own items to an estate sale. Some will keep lists of people by interests. Often if a sale is going slow they will call people on their prospect list to boost traffic a bit. A lot of cars parked around an estate sale tends to draw even more people to come look. If one of their prospects has specialized knowledge in some fields that may also interest them.

There are also estate sale facilitators who feel they should ask "new old stock" prices for something that has been left in the mud for twenty years. You have to do your own sorting and choosing. After being in the hunt for a while it will be easy to tell those who are pricing things too high. Often though there are some who are better with furniture and housewares than they are with tools.

Hoping to see some pictures from whatever you find on your journey.

Happy hunting,

jtk

[Kevin Adams]

The metal used in automotive hose clamps may be easier to find than the metal pallet banding. It is also a springier steel.
jtk

Where does the metal spring go and how does it fit in/on the clamp? I am searching more pics online to see if I can find one. If anyone has a pic handy, I’d be much obliged.

Thanks again.
Kevin

[Tony Zaffuto]

Calling it a spring may be a bit much, as it is more a tension provider, to keep the saw flats against the saw. To much pressure and the saw can't be pushed. The screws of the saw plates also adjust the box for vertical square.

Some of our posts make the 150 sound fidgity. It is not! I have around 15 or 16 boxes (dirt cheap and I've given a few away), and the 150 is one of my favorites.

[John Gornall]

The Stanley 100 miter machine was a 45 degree only miter box and joining vise made for picture framers. Fairly common and available. Mine was bought in a hardware store in 1963, I'm the second owner. Often used along with a Stanley 400 picture framers vise. Sometimes called a Marsh 100 miter machine as Stanley bought the Marsh company.

[John Gornall]

A powered miter saw (chop saw) is the wrong design for precise cutting of small moldings. They are designed for carpenters to cut the maximum sized wood. If you put a molding 1 inch high by 2 inches wide flat on the table and against the fence and lower the blade till it contacts the molding you will see that the first teeth cutting are actually cutting up through the wood causing chip out and lifting or rocking the molding. For precise cutting the moulding needs to be raised and moved out from the fence so the teeth of the blade are cutting down towards the table. Put 2 layers of 3/4 ply on the table and a milled square 2 x 4 on the table and against the fence - now you're cutting down. Your saw may vary - 10" or 12".

[Tony Zaffuto]

A powered miter saw (chop saw) is the wrong design for precise cutting of small moldings. They are designed for carpenters to cut the maximum sized wood. If you put a molding 1 inch high by 2 inches wide flat on the table and against the fence and lower the blade till it contacts the molding you will see that the first teeth cutting are actually cutting up through the wood causing chip out and lifting or rocking the molding. For precise cutting the moulding needs to be raised and moved out from the fence so the teeth of the blade are cutting down towards the table. Put 2 layers of 3/4 ply on the table and a milled square 2 x 4 on the table and against the fence - now you're cutting down. Your saw may vary - 10" or 12".

First, I have a Stanley 100, but have not used it much, and as you said, made for picture framers, though the cuts would only be as good as the saw cutting them!

Second, a bit of a story about a powdered miter saw. Though I have one, it is not used much and I can go months (or longer) without using it. A couple of years ago, we were fixing up the second floor of our hunting camp and one of the guys brought his powered miter saw for cutting trim. As I didn't bring anything other than a tool belt, I had to use the powered saw. First piece I went to cut, I lined up the trim, with my index finger as I do on my Langdon, started the saw and did a loud "ouch". Holding my finger, I moved away from the saw to see what the damage was and fortunately, no bone or fingernail was cut. I decided to leave the trim work to others, versed in power.

[John Gornall]

Positive rake blade pulling itself into wood at startup with blade contacting wood as trigger is pulled. Use a negative rake blade and up to full speed before contact.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Positive rake blade pulling itself into wood at startup with blade contacting wood as trigger is pulled. Use a negative rake blade and up to full speed before contact.

Or don't use power!!!!!

[Jim Koepke]

Where does the metal spring go and how does it fit in/on the clamp? I am searching more pics online to see if I can find one. If anyone has a pic handy, I’d be much obliged.

Thanks again.
Kevin

The arrow on the left points to the pocket for the spring pointed to by the arrow on the right:

439421

Though, with no experience on this particular miter box, that is my best guess, but if someone wants to bet, my money would be on my guess.

It would also be my opinion the ends of the spring go into the pocket and the center stands out. Otherwise the saw would likely snag the spring. The spring should be a tad longer than the pocket so it holds itself in place.

jtk

[chris carter]

Jim's identification is correct.

Since this is turning into a 150 troubleshooting thread, maybe someone can identify my problem (or confirm it's just how they all are). I've previously stated that the right side of the saw clamp is perfectly vertical and hugs the saw fine. The left side, which is the side with the spring, is problematic.

First pic is with no saw, you can see that it closes flush to the right side.
439434

Next pic, with a saw in there, the right side is perfect.
439435

But, on the left side, you can see it's tight at the top, but there is a gap at the bottom.
439436

This gap allows the saw to rotate along the up-down axis. It doesn't matter how I clamp the saw in there - loose, tight, pinch it with my hands and then tighten, put a paper shim in and tighten, don't tighten at all, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. So basically, if I want a perfectly vertical cut, I have to provide a little counterclockwise force to keep the saw flush up against the right side. If I successfully do that (I'm not always successful!) I will get a perfect cut. Otherwise, obviously I can get a slanted cut to the left by enough to be a problem. I sharpened this saw myself and it cuts dead straight freehand. This problem also occurs no matter what saw I put in there. I've lubricated the spring and I can see it working properly.

I'm tempted to think this is just a flaw in the design because MOST of what I hear from people about the 150 is that it's neat and convenient, but not super accurate. But maybe those people don't know anything.

I'll also add that the manual doesn't say anything about this issue. It also neglects to say anything about the adjustment screws other than to use them to make adjustments without bothering to saw which screw does what. I don't think those adjustment screws are my problem though.

Suffice to say, I rarely use it and only for down-n-dirty cuts. If I want an accurate cut, I do considerably better by hand.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Jim's identification is correct.

Since this is turning into a 150 troubleshooting thread, maybe someone can identify my problem (or confirm it's just how they all are). I've previously stated that the right side of the saw clamp is perfectly vertical and hugs the saw fine. The left side, which is the side with the spring, is problematic.

First pic is with no saw, you can see that it closes flush to the right side.
439434

Next pic, with a saw in there, the right side is perfect.
439435

But, on the left side, you can see it's tight at the top, but there is a gap at the bottom.
439436

This gap allows the saw to rotate along the up-down axis. It doesn't matter how I clamp the saw in there - loose, tight, pinch it with my hands and then tighten, put a paper shim in and tighten, don't tighten at all, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. So basically, if I want a perfectly vertical cut, I have to provide a little counterclockwise force to keep the saw flush up against the right side. If I successfully do that (I'm not always successful!) I will get a perfect cut. Otherwise, obviously I can get a slanted cut to the left by enough to be a problem. I sharpened this saw myself and it cuts dead straight freehand. This problem also occurs no matter what saw I put in there. I've lubricated the spring and I can see it working properly.

I'm tempted to think this is just a flaw in the design because MOST of what I hear from people about the 150 is that it's neat and convenient, but not super accurate. But maybe those people don't know anything.

I'll also add that the manual doesn't say anything about this issue. It also neglects to say anything about the adjustment screws other than to use them to make adjustments without bothering to saw which screw does what. I don't think those adjustment screws are my problem though.

Suffice to say, I rarely use it and only for down-n-dirty cuts. If I want an accurate cut, I do considerably better by hand.

There are screws on the side of the saw guides, that are turned in or out (top or bottom), to adjust the guides and saw. Experiment with quarter to half turns, in or out, as well as top or bottom. I got my saw horribly out some time ago and I was ready to toss it, but giving a final try, with quarter turns, I got it back in.

[Jim Koepke]

There are screws on the side of the saw guides, that are turned in or out (top or bottom), to adjust the guides and saw. Experiment with quarter to half turns, in or out, as well as top or bottom. I got my saw horribly out some time ago and I was ready to toss it, but giving a final try, with quarter turns, I got it back in.

From all the descriptions of this it sounds as if it might need to be a tad looser at the top and about the same amount tighter at the bottom. My Craftsman miter box looks cheap and funky, but it can make a good cut:

439441

They are rather inexpensive. (this image was borrowed from the auction site that shall remain unnamed)

The four screws seen on the saw guide control the guide tension on the saw. It took a little fiddling around to get it set right for the saw being used. Changing saws may bring about a need for adjustment.

On this box the piece engaging the protractor may need shimming to get a perfect cut.

jtk

[Kevin Adams]

Thanks, Jim, and everyone for taking the time to respond and offer pics. I’ll give it all a try. I love the small size and large capacity of the 150 and want it to be a keeper.

Have a a great weekend!

Kevin

[chris carter]

Can you provide a little more detail? I have screws on the fixed right side only. They are all adjusted and it is perfectly straight and true. The problem is with the left spring side and there are no screws there. When I tighten it down is bottom flares out. The top of the guide is tight against the saw, but the bottom is not. That allows the bottom of the saw to wiggle left to right (like a pendulum). If I use a little counterclockwise twisting pressure to keep the saw flush against the right side, it will cut perfect. I'm wondering if this is just normal, and if not, I'm wondering what's wrong. In my 800,000 google searches I've never been able to find any information on it. But I can find tons of people who say it doesn't make perfect cuts without explanation.

[Tony Zaffuto]

This may sound screwy, but you don't adjust the screws "perfectly straight", but rather look at the cut you make and if out, tighten or loosen a screw to try to compensate.

[chris carter]

This may sound screwy, but you don't adjust the screws "perfectly straight", but rather look at the cut you make and if out, tighten or loosen a screw to try to compensate.
The right side of the clamp is exactly plumb. If I make a cut with the saw plate flush to that right side, it cuts perfectly plumb. If I put the saw in the clamp and don't tighten the clamp, everything is fine except that the say can easily push the plate around so the saw can go from plumb to tilted clockwise or counter-clockwise (obviously, because the clamp isn't tightened). If I put the saw in the clamp and tighten the clamp screw down, then the saw can go from plumb to a few degrees rotated clockwise because when the clamp is tightened down it's tight at the top and creates a gap at the bottom. The screws on the right have no affect on this.

I'm starting to wonder if it's as simple as the spring is too weak. I have heard once or twice someone on here complain that the clamp is too tight on their saw and needing to apply lubricant or shimming the clamp with a piece of paper when tightening it down on the saw and then removing the paper. I've never had that problem. If I just let the clamp adjust to the saw on it's own and then tighten it down there seems to be just the right amount of friction on the saw.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Don't worry what the guides look like: adjust till the cut is plumb and square! Also, is your saw set correctly, so that it is not pulling?

[Jim Koepke]

Instructions are available here > http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/pdf/Stanley%20No.%20150.pdf

It looks like the adjustments are made on the right side plate.

Is the left side plate free floating?

jtk

[steven c newman]

IIRC...the left side is the one with the spring....

[Kevin Adams]

Jim's identification is correct.

Since this is turning into a 150 troubleshooting thread, maybe someone can identify my problem (or confirm it's just how they all are). I've previously stated that the right side of the saw clamp is perfectly vertical and hugs the saw fine. The left side, which is the side with the spring, is problematic.

First pic is with no saw, you can see that it closes flush to the right side.
439434

Next pic, with a saw in there, the right side is perfect.
439435

But, on the left side, you can see it's tight at the top, but there is a gap at the bottom.
439436

This gap allows the saw to rotate along the up-down axis. It doesn't matter how I clamp the saw in there - loose, tight, pinch it with my hands and then tighten, put a paper shim in and tighten, don't tighten at all, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. So basically, if I want a perfectly vertical cut, I have to provide a little counterclockwise force to keep the saw flush up against the right side. If I successfully do that (I'm not always successful!) I will get a perfect cut. Otherwise, obviously I can get a slanted cut to the left by enough to be a problem. I sharpened this saw myself and it cuts dead straight freehand. This problem also occurs no matter what saw I put in there. I've lubricated the spring and I can see it working properly.

I'm tempted to think this is just a flaw in the design because MOST of what I hear from people about the 150 is that it's neat and convenient, but not super accurate. But maybe those people don't know anything.

I'll also add that the manual doesn't say anything about this issue. It also neglects to say anything about the adjustment screws other than to use them to make adjustments without bothering to saw which screw does what. I don't think those adjustment screws are my problem though.

Suffice to say, I rarely use it and only for down-n-dirty cuts. If I want an accurate cut, I do considerably better by hand.

Chris, if it’s not too much trouble, I’d be much obliged if you could share a pic of the left side clamp with the spring in place so I can see what it looks like installed. I imagine it’s fairly common for that piece to go missing and thus, I’m hoping it’s easy to retrofit a piece in there. I also see the 3 screws on the right side that Tony is talking about. This has been a great convo, thanks again everyone, didn’t mean to hijack the thread to a 150 rehab.

Kevin

[chris carter]

Don't worry what the guides look like: adjust till the cut is plumb and square! Also, is your saw set correctly, so that it is not pulling?

The saw cut straight. I sharpened it myself and use it regularly outside of the miter box. The saw does not pull. What happens is there is a gap at the bottom of the clamp when the screw is tightened down to lock the left side of the clamp in place. This allows the saw to stray from perpendicular clockwise. Is there a gap at the bottom of yours? If so, than I guess they are all this way. If your clamp is even all the way down, then that's where yours and mine differ and I'm trying to figure out how to correct the problem. This is part of my problem - I'm having difficulty figuring out if mine is par for the course, or if there's is something defective and I need to figure out how to fix it.

Jim: I have those instructions, but they don't address the issue. They also don't explain how to make the adjustments to the right side of the clamp. The original Jacobs, at least the 5" version, came with much more detailed adjustment instructions glued to the bottom, but I have not been able to find an image online with enough of the instructions still intact to get much out of it. There's a better version in German, but I can't read German. Regardless, from what I can make out, it doesn't address the issue. Interestingly enough, the 5" Jacobs had a set screw on the left clamp piece and I have not been able to find out what it was used for. It does curiously look as though it was intended to deal with this issue. Yet the 4" Jacobs (which Stanley put their name on a couple decades later) never had that set screw.

Steven: That's correct. The left side is the spring side. I have zero issues with the right side.

[chris carter]

Chris, if it’s not too much trouble, I’d be much obliged if you could share a pic of the left side clamp with the spring in place so I can see what it looks like installed. I imagine it’s fairly common for that piece to go missing and thus, I’m hoping it’s easy to retrofit a piece in there. I also see the 3 screws on the right side that Tony is talking about. This has been a great convo, thanks again everyone, didn’t mean to hijack the thread to a 150 rehab.

Kevin

Hard to get a good shot of the spring. Here's a few pictures and hopefully it will give you an idea of what it should look like installed. The ends of the spring goes against the clamp and the middle goes against the arm.
439493439494439495439496

[Curt Putnam]

If you are still interested in the wood miter box, Lee Valley sells a guide kit that should help tighten things up - at least a little. After that, I'd look at a Nobex.

[Kevin Adams]

Hard to get a good shot of the spring. Here's a few pictures and hopefully it will give you an idea of what it should look like installed. The ends of the spring goes against the clamp and the middle goes against the arm.
439493439494439495439496

Thanks much, Chris. So the bend is on the outside, ie away from the saw plate vs towards it.

Take care,
Kevin