A used machine shipping nightmare

[Wakahisa Shinta]

To make a very long story short, I now have a used woodworking machine, about 2100+ pounds in weight, laying upside down in the middle of my driveway with scattered parts here and there, after being dropped from a lift-gate/truck bed 6 feet above ground. The logistics company that I contracted with to have this machine shipped is not responding to my email/call. The freight broker, who contracted with the logistic company, essentially told me that he can't help and that it is my "problem because it is in my driveway," but he will contact the logistic company to tell that company to "step up." He wanted me to ask a couple of guy friends to flip it over since he could do it himself if he was standing in my driveway. The driver left in a hurry after the disaster and pointed his finger at the broker as the responsible party.

So, who is responsible in this particular situation? My contractual agreement is with the logistic company, so I think they should be taking responsibility. Or is it the freight company that dropped the crate in my driveway upside down after a 6-foot drop? Though, I did not enter into contract with the broker or the delivery company.

My guts feeling is that this is as good as it is going to get in this particular case. I will end up writing off the purchase price, crate fee, freight fee, and all associated costs of erecting the machine. I have not even considered the cost of fixing the machine, if it is indeed salvageable.

SW

[Joseph Montroy]

Well the first thing I would do is to write down everything that happened ASAP. Include everything, times, names of the driver and people you called and date/ time of the call. Then, take lots of pictures.

After all that, get the machine indoors however you can do the weather doesn't make a bad situation even worse. Then you can evaluate if it is salvageable.

My guess is the company with the contract is liable but it isn't good that they aren't answering their phone or returning calls.

While you are understandably frustrated, remember to be calm and collected when you do get someone on the phone. Mistakes do happen and it's been my experience that companies will stand behind well documented issues of handled calmly.

Good luck!

[Darcy Warner]

Well, I hate to say it, but good luck.

[Patrick Kane]

That is awful. Very curious in your resolution. I’ve always asked carriers how much stuff is insured for, and never got the straightest of answers. It’s not like shipping fedex where you pay a premium for insuring something at face value. Atleast, my handful of shipping machine experiences weren’t like that. Every time I’m a little on edge thinking about all the ways some one can make a mistake and severely damage a tool. Best of luck, hope you get them to recoup your loss.

Is it too soon to ask what machine is upside down? And is the crate literally upside down?? How on earth did the driver goof that badly with the lift gate?

[Richard Coers]

What did you pay for the machine? Curious if you need a lawyer or if it will go to small claims court. Whoever accepted money from you for the delivery is responsible.

[Darcy Warner]

Realistically, it's on the seller/or whoever was responsible for freight. Also that person has to deal with broker, like to drag their feet. Its lots of fun.

[Joe Adams]

Take lots of photos to document every detail.

[David Buchhauser]

Have you opened the crate to assess the situation? Depending on the machine - a 2200 lb. machine inside a wooden crate rolled over and dropped from lift gate height (4 to 5 feet) may have not sustained any permanent damage. What exactly is the machine?
David

[Matt Day]

Have you opened the crate to assess the situation? Depending on the machine - a 2200 lb. machine inside a wooden crate rolled over and dropped from lift gate height (4 to 5 feet) may have not sustained any permanent damage. What exactly is the machine?
David

I seriously doubt that.

[Frederick Skelly]

Man, that's awful. I'm sorry to hear it.
I hope it works out for you.
Fred

[David Buchhauser]

I seriously doubt that.


You seriously doubt he has opened the crate? Or the other one?
David

[Darcy Warner]

I seriously doubt that.

You'd be surprised really.

[David Buchhauser]

Please share with us.
David

[Larry Edgerton]

This is why I throw the trailer on the truck and go pick them up myself most times.

[Jim Becker]

This is heartbreaking to hear...I know you were looking forward to that machine for your shop and honestly I hope it's salvageable.

Responsibility is based on the contract for transportation, both who's name is on top of it and the language in the contract including insurance provisions. It comes down to the signed paperwork.

[Mark Hennebury]

First off, sorry this has happened to you.

Second; I have shipped a lot of machinery to and from a lot of places, so i do have some experience in this stuff.

This has been my experience;

everyone is nice until something goes wrong, when you call on them to take responsibility, they usually will slam the door in your face. One will send you to the other etc.
Your claim should be against the one that you hired, not the one that they hired.
They do not want to deal with it.
They will not willingly pay for it.
They will deny and delay and hope that you go away.
If you fill out a claim against them they will drag it out for a year.
If you hire a lawyer , they will fight you and delay for months, and will finally make an offer to settle prior to the court date.
They will offer you a lot less than the value of the machine, but will offer to pay your lawyers fees, that puts your lawyer on their side in convincing you to settle.
They will probably offer that you keep the machine and accept a smaller amount of money rather than giving you enough to replace the machine and taking the damaged one.
In the meantime you have waited a year with a junked machine and had a lot of stress to deal with.

The bigger the company the better they are at playing the game.

The people that work the claims departments are most likely rewarded based on how much they save the company.

Smaller companies will judge how serious you are about prosecuting them and weigh their options and may settle faster.

It will depend a lot on the value of the machine.
It will go a lot easier if its a $2000 machine then if its a $20,000 machine.
Basic insurance coverage for freight is $2;00 per pound. Unless you paid for extra insurance.
If you don't get any satisfaction soon, get a lawyer or take them to small claims court. Sometimes just the threat of that will make them move, but expect to have to take it to court.


Welcome to my world.

Good luck.


Buckle-up.

[Alex Zeller]

Document everything and sue them all. My guess is the trucking company will be paying. Curbside delivery doesn't mean get it off the truck in any way possible. Let a court decide who's at fault. I would also post details on-line every place I could. If possible add pictures. Companies hate this. Some think they can threaten you but quickly back down when you state that you've only posted facts. Yours is one of the reasons why I have never bought used equipment that I couldn't pick up myself. If it was new the seller would either refund your money or ship a second one.

[Patrick Kane]

True, new machines direct from the manufacturer are somewhat easier because you can fight it out with the machine company, but ive read several issues with shipping damages etc. Something is broken inside the crate, driver leaves after you sign the bill of lading, you discover the damage afterwards, you see where this goes.

Judging by Darcy and Mark's statements, my anxiety is confirmed. I will continue worrying everytime i ship a machine. Has anyone looked into supplemental insurance policies through third parties? Does such a thing exist?

[Alex Zeller]

I had only one new machine arrive with damage (from Grizzly). It looked like the way they fastened it down from the factory wasn't strong enough so a couple parts were moving around. They asked if the crate was damaged and since it wasn't they just sent me replacements for all the damaged parts without any further questions. I have read where other companies aren't so good but I try to always pay with a credit card so I can call them up and stop payment until it's resolved. I've seen some great deals on used equipment at auctions. It's the horror stories that keep me from pulling the trigger.

[Scott Bernstein]

Sorry to hear about this incident; does not sound fun. Sounds like the folks who dropped it off were probably in a little over their head. Was this a general freight company or someone specialized in moving heavy, precision machinery? I have posted previously about my experience with my 1200lb jointer/planer combo machine and the professional rigging company who delivered it. They were obviously way more expensive, but their policies regarding coverage for loss or damage were very clear in the contract. I was confident that if anything had gone wrong I would have been covered - or least a little better than what is described here. Fortunately I did not have to find out. They came out with an all-terrain forklift, pallet jack, and three huge guys. For me, hiring the rigging company really decreased my stress level. They were also great in that they helped me take apart the wooden crate and assemble the machine. They did not leave until it was all assembled in position and working. Only then did they ask me to sign off on the delivery. While they were there we were chatting about other jobs they had done for home woodworkers. He showed me some pictures he had taken during a recent job in a nearby town. A woodworker had moved into a new house with a basement shop. Apparently the only way in was from the back which was down a steep ravine. They ended up lifting all his machines with a huge crane and lowering them down to the entrance. From there they had assembled some overhead track down over the basement stairs to move the machines into the room. I didn't ask how much that cost, probably 5 figures...half of that to cover insurance cost I bet. But clearly, they knew what they were doing.

[glenn bradley]

Very sad to hear. Certainly the company you paid for the delivery is responsible as stated in the contract. It is unfortunate that we rarely read the fine print. Your experience so far demonstrates how most people in business today shy away from responsibility and lack integrity. It is this very reality that drives me to so aggressively praise those businesses that still operate with an honest, moral ethic. I hope you are able to minimize your losses and get some level of relief.

[Rege Sullivan]

Call your insurance company. It happened in your driveway. They probably will not cover any lost shipping cost but should cover the value of the lost equipment. If this is for your hobby and you have replacement cost coverage you will ]might well get the full cost of a new machine. Business insurance varies but would still be worth a call.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Thank you for your advice and offer of support. Below is more history.

To answer some of the questions raised previously, the machine impacted twice on its way down to the ground; once when the side of the crate hits the ground, and the second time when it broke loose all fasteners and moorings, broke through and destroyed the crate's top and impacted a second time with its topside hitting the ground. So, yes, the machine opened its own crate. I didn't have to lift a finger.

I considered all possibilities during the time leading up to contracting with this company for shipping. I quoted six different logistics companies, including some of the big boys. UPS Freight was the median price, but I paid the higher price with this company because of their assurance and the fact that the machine/crate was already in their care. I spoke with the owner over the phone. I researched the company's history, which is family owned for the last 30-40 years, growing into an interstate operation up and down the east coast.

I considered having the crate shipped to a local terminal for either self pickup or hiring a towing company with a tilt-bed trailer to pick it up. I considered renting a forklift and unloading it myself when it arrives on the truck. I considered renting a drop-deck trailer to pick it up from a terminal myself. I assessed all these services and rental prices. They were slightly less expensive to what I finally paid the logistic company in this case. I decided to support a family-owned business after I asked three different times that a lift gate will be spec-ed to the weight of the machine and crate. I was assured that that will be the case and that the priced premium is for this reason. I paid their asking price and left it in their hands to fulfill their end of the contract.

I also researched freight shipping liability insurance. I inquired about this to my logistic company. When I spoke to my contact there over the phone, he told me that it is likely not needed as "the crate is simple and well constructed. It is a box that will sit inside a truck most of the time." I did not purchase extra liability insurance, which for me took quite a bit of research to even scratch the surface of what is available. It is a huge big black box.

Anxiety struck when I received a call three days later from the broker notifying me that the crate will be arriving in my city that evening and if I'd like, it can be delivered at 9 PM same day or next morning. I picked next morning. As of this point, there has not been any communication from my logistics company about shipping information, tracking information, etc. I went to check my email after this call and there was an urgent email from the staff member asking me to let him know when I want to take delivery and that he did not send those information to be 3 days ago because "Friday got away from [him]." I thought, if it was so urgent, why didn't he call me.

A little later, I received another call from a dispatch person, asking me to take delivery at 9 PM because they have another delivery the next morning that conflicts with mine. I pointed out that 9 PM is rather late given the circumstances. He pleaded his case, so I agreed. The truck arrived at about 9:45 PM. A short while later, I had a machine un-crating itself on the ground and the driver was long gone, after commenting that he did not know the content of the crate and that the lift gate was inadequate for the crate's weight and dimensions now that he sees the content.

So far, I am out about $9000. I still need to rent a forklift with delivery and pickup, purchase extra rigging equipment, and tackle the task of righting this machine back on its base this weekend. There are worse outcomes in this situation. No bodily injury, my wife, myself, or the truck driver. The machine is on my driveway instead of in the street, becoming a bother to my neighbors and vehicle traffic, necessitating a much more emergent response.

There is a small glimmer of hope that the machine is salvageable and not totaled. However, it is a Japanese super surfacer, a precision woodworking machine, so I don't think it can be easily repaired. This machine has a history. I was hoping to give it a home and keep it operational until its ripe old age. The possibility that this may not happen is more regrettable than the financial damage, which can be rectified with time and some extra hard work.

Back to the topic at hand, it seems that the consensus here is if I pursue legal action, I would litigate against the logistic company that I contracted with. I still have not received any communication from this company or from the staff member that I have been dealing with. I will follow up with another email today (48 hours out from disaster) and see what will transpire.

Thank you again for your insights.

[David Kumm]

I feel your pain. I'd look hard at the language of the lift gate delivery and capacity carefully. My experience is that a lift gate delivery is a horrible idea for any machine close to 1000 lbs let alone twice that. The drivers aren't used to weight, the incline affects everything, and not being in control of the offload is asking for disaster. The freight company will likely try to assert that the lift gate was your idea and get you to accept the risk. Look at the lift gate part of the contract and any information that asserts the capacity of the gate far exceeds your machine weight. That will help your case if it is there. Dave

[Stewart Lang]

... after commenting that he did not know the content of the crate and that the lift gate was inadequate for the crate's weight and dimensions now that he sees the content...

Was it delivered in a box truck or full semi? Box truck liftgates are rated for 2000-3000lbs and semi liftgates are rated for 4000-5000lbs+. I've talked with our freight carrier about this.

I can't imagine a super surfacer being THAT big. I'd pursue with the freight carrier. Don't go after the broker, but get him on your side, and ideally have the both of you going after the freight carrier. It's their job to deliver, not the brokers.

Did you sign for it? If you didn't sign for it, then that's technically refusal of shipment and the freight carrier should send it back to the shipper. If you signed for it, even with the damage, then you kinda released them from an obligation. The only instance where you can really pursue after signing if it's hidden damage (which this doesn't sound like it).

[Jim Becker]

Don't overlook Social Media to place pressure on the entity that is contractually responsible for your shipment. Stick to the facts, however...rants will not portray you well, but actual information about your issue may help motivate a resolution.

[Jim Dwight]

My limited experience with lawyers is that the first visit they normally do not charge for. I am pretty comfortable with contracts since I used to write them for a living but if you are not terribly comfortable, the amount of dollars is significant enough I would consult a lawyer. They can provide better advice than I can. Sometimes all that needs to happen is you have a lawyer write a letter for you threatening legal action. That should be a few hundred dollars at most. The better you have documented things the less time it will take a lawyer and the less it will cost. Your potential loss may exceed the limits of small claims court but it seems worth checking. A lawyer will know.

[Darcy Warner]

First off, sorry this has happened to you.

Second; I have shipped a lot of machinery to and from a lot of places, so i do have some experience in this stuff.

This has been my experience;

everyone is nice until something goes wrong, when you call on them to take responsibility, they usually will slam the door in your face. One will send you to the other etc.
Your claim should be against the one that you hired, not the one that they hired.
They do not want to deal with it.
They will not willingly pay for it.
They will deny and delay and hope that you go away.
If you fill out a claim against them they will drag it out for a year.
If you hire a lawyer , they will fight you and delay for months, and will finally make an offer to settle prior to the court date.
They will offer you a lot less than the value of the machine, but will offer to pay your lawyers fees, that puts your lawyer on their side in convincing you to settle.
They will probably offer that you keep the machine and accept a smaller amount of money rather than giving you enough to replace the machine and taking the damaged one.
In the meantime you have waited a year with a junked machine and had a lot of stress to deal with.

The bigger the company the better they are at playing the game.

The people that work the claims departments are most likely rewarded based on how much they save the company.

Smaller companies will judge how serious you are about prosecuting them and weigh their options and may settle faster.

It will depend a lot on the value of the machine.
It will go a lot easier if its a $2000 machine then if its a $20,000 machine.
Basic insurance coverage for freight is $2;00 per pound. Unless you paid for extra insurance.
If you don't get any satisfaction soon, get a lawyer or take them to small claims court. Sometimes just the threat of that will make them move, but expect to have to take it to court.


Welcome to my world.

Good luck.


Buckle-up.

I didn't feel like typing that all out. Lol.

A few things I have learned, cheap LTL prices are usually the most expensive. Pay for all the insurance you want, the trucking companies have big wallets.

They are masters at statute of limitations.

It always comes back on the person that set up the shipping.

It's like trying to get a straight answer from a 4 year old.

I have had two machines get destroyed that I had shipped.
I got those back and sent my customers similar replacement machines. Did I have to? No, but they were good customers.

Good luck trying to sue, hate to say that, but that has been my experience.

[Jacob Mac]

How much pain do you want to endure chasing this down? Because there will be a lot.

Is there an attorneys fees clause in the contract?

Is there mandatory arbitration?

Is there a venue clause?

How much damage? How much are you out?

[John Grossbohlin]

Lift gate "capacity" seems to be a fuzzy concept... I moved a large safe one time and the trunk rental company assured me that the lift gate was rated to handle it. Where things went bad was when the truck's suspension compressed under the load and the lift gate tilted down... Bad things happen when a large safe meets a tilted lift gate. I had a guy with a large backhoe stand the safe back up on level ground. When I moved my 36" bandsaw my BIL brought a service truck from his electric motor and generator business. I noticed that it had a lift gate, a crane, and jacks/stabilizers to keep the truck level. He didn't need the jacks for the bandsaw as it was trivial compared to motors they handle. Going forward I'm not moving any more big equipment myself... let the riggers do it!

[Tom Bender]

Face to face may be the best way to resolve this.

[Jack Frederick]

I am sorry for your situation, but it is not a bad idea to set up a go-pro or even your phone to record large deliveries. Video is difficult to argue with.

[Bill Dufour]

Well Al Capone went to Alcatraz for tax evasion and Ponzi went to jail for mail fraud.
Bil lD

[Erik Loza]

Wakahisa, first, what a bummer. I deliver machinery for a living and also have dumped (albeit rarely) my fair share of machines onto customers driveways. ANY legit LTL delivery service will be insured/bonded for exactly these reasons. In my experience, the unspoken rule among logistics carriers is that possession = responsibility. In other words, once it's off the truck, for better or worse, it's your issue to deal with. Of course, that is not fair but it is the truth in my observation. My guess is that they are laying low and hoping you will "figure it out on your own". Again, not fair but I have been doing this long enough to see it as a pattern. My advice would be to be the squeaky wheel. Good luck and hope this gets resolved as painlessly as possible.

Erik

[Patrick Walsh]

And people ask me why I hate people. Then I look back at them and think really where do I start. Lovely creatures we are being this is the stuff we do to each other.

I just don’t get how people can do this crap to each other..

[Richard Coers]

And people ask me why I hate people. Then I look back at them and think really where do I start. Lovely creatures we are being this is the stuff we do to each other.

I just don’t get how people can do this crap to each other..


Easy, it's called greed. The money is the most important thing.

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh I get it and I know what it is.

I just personally can’t wrap my being around the concept. My conscience for money, nope, no thank thank, no day, no way. I’d rather suffer the fate of financial distress..

Hence I do my best to keep to myself and rely on others and or involve them in anything that could potentially leave them in control and me at a loss as little as possible. Right now I gotta move a huge heavy machine and I’ll go rent the 10k lb forklift landscape pads and do it myself.

Not all the time but way more times than I’m cozy with people take care of themself full well aware it’s at the expense of another. And if not they justify their actions in some way as to absolve themself of any accountability. It’s just beautiful really but us humans are so freaking great right..


Easy, it's called greed. The money is the most important thing.