Jointer questions? Grizzly or Laguna or?

[Dave Burson]

I am finally going to add a jointer, since that big stack of lumber I cut last year is prime for being used finally. :)
Looking at a few, but strongly looking at the Grizzly G9860zx 12" parallelagram with helical head. It's on sale, and is 34 1/2' deep- that measurement is about the maximum I'd like to stay within if possible, and the idea of getting a 12" jointer would be amazing! Lots of the wood from my trees that is seasoning is 10-12" so would sure simplify things. But I read one review on Grizzly that said that machine with a 3hp was under powered, and could only take ~1/32" off /pass or it would bog down. Does anyone have that machine that can pass along any input in that regard?
There is another they have, G0834 that is a 5 HP, and is a actually cheaper 12", but is 39" deep, and it's going to force me to locate it elsewhere in the shop. I'm guessing thats why it's cheaper? OR is there another machine I should be looking at? Cost is always in play, but not the decider for me, I'll get whatever makes most sense
Edit- I just saw the Laguna - 12" Parallelogram Jointer with ShearTec II (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/laguna-tools-12-parallelogram-jointer-with-sheartec-ii?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C5797ca6769702d0d a200058a%2C5763ff4869702d3ae30009de)
That looks nice too. A little pricier, but not PM pricey anyways. And it's only 33" deep which is a big plus HMMM... Would so much appreciate any input here. Thoughts or input on either of these or any 12" jointers you have or personally know about?
TIA- Dave

[Matt Day]

Used! So many good deals on big old arn out there for a fraction of those prices. Going to be a traditional knifed head likely, but I don’t think that’s a big deal.

[Robert London]

I had a 3hp Griz for a short time with straight knife. 8”. It did bog down on occasion and the entire spindle stopped on large pieces.

The spiral cutter will probably help. But I would not spend the money on a larger 12 inch joiner and only get 3hp. Most of grizzlys combo jointer planers are 5hp. Why buy a 1000 pound jointer only machine and only get 3 hp? Go 5hp and you won’t regret it.

As for old iron, that’s east to say. But old iron has problems. Number one is getting it to your house. The motors are often 3 phase and the helical or spiral cutters are light years ahead of straight blades. So a used 2500 machine may turn into 3500-4000 (tel:3500-4000) machine after you start fixing stuff.

On a 12 inch machine, I’d want a longer fence, too. I have not seen the laguna in person, but the long 47” fence is something that I’d like if I was going to buy one.

[John C Bush]

I have the Griz 0609-12", 3hp, spiral head. It has been a great workhorse for me. I do a lot of rough stock milling-mostly 10"+-
and rarely have any issues with bogging down with greater than 1/32" cuts. I just moderate my feed rate as needed, I live near the Griz showroom and when looking at the machines up close I couldn't see any significant difference in my more modest model and the Ultimate versions. The table castings and adjustment mechanisms looked and operated the same, cutter heads were the same, not sure if bearings were different(or why).
I made a mobile base with leveling casters and at times when milling large and heavier stock I will lower the pads but generally the jointer doesn't move so if spacing is an issue a simple mobile base may solve that for you. The table on the 0609 is 83 1/2" and that is a big plus. I looked up the Griz jointer listings and my version looks just like the G0834. With the 5hp, spiral cutter head, and if a mobile base solves you shop space/positioning issue I think that is a reasonable choice and a better value. Can send pics of the base if needed. Easy to make-just ask Santa for a MIG for Xmas!! Good luck JCB.

[Dave Burson]

john
thanks do much! That helps a lot. I do like to weld a bit too so would love pictures of your base! And changes you’d make to it,and any notes you can think of - etc Ty!


I have the Griz 0609-12", 3hp, spiral head. It has been a great workhorse for me. I do a lot of rough stock milling-mostly 10"+-
and rarely have any issues with bogging down with greater than 1/32" cuts. I just moderate my feed rate as needed, I live near the Griz showroom and when looking at the machines up close I couldn't see any significant difference in my more modest model and the Ultimate versions. The table castings and adjustment mechanisms looked and operated the same, cutter heads were the same, not sure if bearings were different(or why).
I made a mobile base with leveling casters and at times when milling large and heavier stock I will lower the pads but generally the jointer doesn't move so if spacing is an issue a simple mobile base may solve that for you. The table on the 0609 is 83 1/2" and that is a big plus. I looked up the Griz jointer listings and my version looks just like the G0834. With the 5hp, spiral cutter head, and if a mobile base solves you shop space/positioning issue I think that is a reasonable choice and a better value. Can send pics of the base if needed. Easy to make-just ask Santa for a MIG for Xmas!! Good luck JCB.

[Dave Burson]

Ty Matt. Appreciate the input but don’t think a used is a good choice me this time. I just went thru that with a old unisaw, which love having as my dedicated dado guy, but with the beefiness of the jointer and without strong help in area, I think I need to go new on this one

[Dave Burson]

That helps a lot Robert. Gives me the confirmation I need. And I’m glad you said something about the fence. I see the laguna has a 60” x5 3/8” so that should be a lot better

hoping someone here has the laguna and can comment on that.


I had a 3hp Griz for a short time with straight knife. 8”. It did bog down on occasion and the entire spindle stopped on large pieces.

The spiral cutter will probably help. But I would not spend the money on a larger 12 inch joiner and only get 3hp. Most of grizzlys combo jointer planers are 5hp. Why buy a 1000 pound jointer only machine and only get 3 hp? Go 5hp and you won’t regret it.

As for old iron, that’s east to say. But old iron has problems. Number one is getting it to your house. The motors are often 3 phase and the helical or spiral cutters are light years ahead of straight blades. So a used 2500 machine may turn into 3500-4000 (tel:3500-4000) machine after you start fixing stuff.

On a 12 inch machine, I’d want a longer fence, too. I have not seen the laguna in person, but the long 47” fence is something that I’d like if I was going to buy one.

[John C Bush]

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Hope this helps. Simple 2 1/2" x 1/4" angle iron with caster supports welded on the outside. Bit of a PITA to bend over and move the caster pads-can never remember which way to turn the dial-so consider the ratcheting version or a foot controlled lever type locking caster. You won't need to use it much. Robert had commented on the fence length but it hasn't been a problem for me at all--tho I have never used a jointer with a longer fence. Never had a problem controlling the stock. The Hammerite paint is a perfect match for Grizzly green as a bonus!! I did a video showing how easily the jointer moves and can forward that to you as needed too. You've got me interested in looking at the Laguna!! Good luck. JCB

[Matt Day]

Ty Matt. Appreciate the input but don’t think a used is a good choice me this time. I just went thru that with a old unisaw, which love having as my dedicated dado guy, but with the beefiness of the jointer and without strong help in area, I think I need to go new on this one

Totally understand! Just saying, but my Northfield 12L is 33” deep, and comes apart into 7 manageable pieces for one person to move.

[Robert London]

There’s not a lot of feedback on the laguna online, but did see a few positive comments. One thing I must say is that grizzly has excellent customer service. I had a problem with mine, and they did everything they could to help. Not a quality issue but the wrong part being listed and not being able to retro fit a spiral head from them I ordered. So I wouldn’t hesitate to buy from them again. I have my eye on their 20” spiral planer as well.

Laguna doesn’t seem to have the level of positive feedback when problems occur.

[Stewart Lang]

I had the G0609x 12" spiral head Grizzly jointer in my shop for a period of time. It was a great jointer. Beds were very flat (within 5 thousandths). They stayed put once you set them. I'd have no hesitations about getting another 12" Grizzly jointer.

I had no problems with the 3hp motor. Infact I have a 3hp motor on my 16" jointer, and I've never once bogged it down. Honestly a 5hp motor on a jointer seems like overkill. The deeper cut you make, the more you have to "push" the wood through against that cutterhead. If you're bogging down a 3hp motor on a jointer, you're taking too deep of a cut imo.

[Lisa Starr]

I just took a look at the jointers available, and ended up going with a combo machine. With the space I gain buy selling my 15" planer, I'll have no problem accommodating the machine in my smallish shop. The combos are quite inexpensive compared to owning 2 individual machines.

[Alex Zeller]

If the cutter head is stalling I would check the belt. Most likely it's slipping. Lots of 15" planners that have a 3hp motor on them that will do up to a 1/8" cut so I don't know why a 12" jointer would need more.

[David M Peters]

My 12" combo machine (with helical head) has a 3HP motor and has no problems with deeper cuts in either jointing or planing mode.

Grizzly's price differences between similar machines come down to country of origin. Their more expensive machines are made in Taiwan vs cheaper in China. The difference is much more apparent when flipping through their paper catalog.

[David Kumm]

Motor quality, efficiency, and frame size are more important than 3 vs 5 hp for a jointer. Cheap small frame motors have smaller diameter shafts and bearings. Both affect the load capability. I'd look at both motor nameplates and compare. Decent cast iron and flat tables are a huge deal, particularly near the head. The larger the diameter of the cutter head the better the cut as well, even with an insert head which is of marginal benefit on a jointer anyway. Generally the greater the number of inserts, the greater the need for hp. That is a bigger deal on a planer where number of inserts can improve the finish quality. A jointer doesn't leave a finished surface so fewer inserts isn't a bad thing. Dave

[Robert London]

Part of my issue may have been just lack of good set up and dull knives. I wasn’t taking off too much off a cut, or so I thought.

HP numbers can be jaded when considering other things. Quality of motor, amps and other factors come in. I think having a spiral or helical head would have helped. Lots of 12 inch combo machines have 3 hp motors with spiral cutters and do just fine. Smaller footprint, lighter weight and shorter beds.

But for me, if I’m going to buy a massive 12” cast iron jointer than weights 1200 pounds and has 85 inch beds, why skimp on the motor? It’s going to be a ~4500 investment with shipping on a new machine. Might as well get a little extra muscle and not that much more money to go from 3-5 hp.

[Dave Burson]

Yep, I tend to agree with that Robert! I know I could get things much cheaper if I take the time and look for one used. But I have been looking for over 8 months. Nothing but junk or way overpriced stuff that will require issues to be addressed so far anyway, and I need to get one soon now. I also know Grizzly makes decent quality machines, but in the jointers, their 3 HP models apparently do bog down under load- at least in some way, since I have heard that from 4 different people now on various forums. Is it HP, or is it an underrated motor? I don't know, but apparently it isn't a good match for the machine it's put in, at least to some. It is hard to be a consumer, so you have to control what you can, and go with your gut sometimes. To me, this is a brand new shop, and I am going to be here a long time, so want to invest in quality hardware, especially in the bigger items. To me, that means jointer and tablesaw station (among others) needs to be top notch. I have a huge stack of seasoned lumber of various types, that I cut from trees on property last year, that is ~10'x10'x 5' that is waiting for me to start using it. Most of it is 10-12' wide, thus the reason for the 12". I see the 5 HP 12 Laguna parallelagram with helical head as being able to take me there, with NO issues with being under powered regardless of what it is I'm cutting. So far, only negative thing I have seen/heard about Laguna is their CS, and though that part doesn't excite me, if I buy thru Woodcraft, not only get 10% off (sale just started), but they will be a interface in the event I hit a brick wall with their CS.
Really appreciate the input all! If anyone else possibly owns the machine I have in mind, sure would like to ask you a few questions about it. Looks like I get it in ~ 2-3 weeks, so will post an update when I do.



Part of my issue may have been just lack of good set up and dull knives. I wasn’t taking off too much off a cut, or so I thought.

HP numbers can be jaded when considering other things. Quality of motor, amps and other factors come in. I think having a spiral or helical head would have helped. Lots of 12 inch combo machines have 3 hp motors with spiral cutters and do just fine. Smaller footprint, lighter weight and shorter beds.

But for me, if I’m going to buy a massive 12” cast iron jointer than weights 1200 pounds and has 85 inch beds, why skimp on the motor? It’s going to be a ~4500 investment with shipping on a new machine. Might as well get a little extra muscle and not that much more money to go from 3-5 hp.

[John C Bush]

Hi Dave,
I made a torsion box sled for slabs wider than my jointer-or too unwieldy for me to manage solo-to use on my 20" planer. Shim with door jam wedges and stick down with a hot glue gun. Works great-saves time, your back, and is a more efficient way to control stock removal. Have fun shopping and milling. JCB

[Alan Lightstone]

So far, only negative thing I have seen/heard about Laguna is their CS, and though that part doesn't excite me, if I buy thru Woodcraft, not only get 10% off (sale just started), but they will be a interface in the event I hit a brick wall with their CS.
Really appreciate the input all! If anyone else possibly owns the machine I have in mind, sure would like to ask you a few questions about it. Looks like I get it in ~ 2-3 weeks, so will post an update when I do.

I used to own their 12" Jointer/Planer combo, and it never seemed under-powered. Dust collection was horrible, though, when jointing. I found their customer service pretty bad. There are many bad stories about it online.

I agree with Woodcraft being great at helping. I had a problem with another manufacturer totally ignoring my phone calls, and one of their corporate VPs stepped in (at the request of my local store manager), and moved mountains. Woodcraft earned great loyalty over that one.

I went the 5HP route with my Felder jointer, and I can't imagine anything ever stalling in it. You would never have enough power to push the piece through it.
Hopefully the machine will be great for you. Congrats. Good luck!

[Bruce Lowekamp]

in the jointers, their 3 HP models apparently do bog down under load- at least in some way, since I have heard that from 4 different people now on various forums. Is it HP, or is it an underrated motor? I don't know, but apparently it isn't a good match for the machine it's put in, at least to some.

To me one of the hardest things about woodworking is that I’m not a machinist. And it’s these sorts of “why is this struggling to cut” or “why is there a gap between these boards” that wind up needing knowledge of how to set up machines really well that takes time to learn.

I did notice a problem face-jointing an 8” board with my 3HP grizzly jointer a couple months ago. Realized that the belts were so loose that one of them was actually flapping around. Got new belts and they are really tight. But jointer sounds much better and doesn’t bog down.

With that said, I do find myself staring at the Laguna 12” jointer at Woodcraft. My 14BX has been really one of the most pleasant tools to work with....

Bruce

[Robert London]

Hey Dave,

Any update on how you like the 12” Laguna?

[Bill Dufour]

I do not know how they measure the depth needed for a jointer? Is it with the fence all the way back or not? I would bet it varies maker to maker. So it could be stated 12 inches diferent for the same machine I suppose.
Bill D

[Dave Burson]

Hey Dave,

Any update on how you like the 12” Laguna?


Yessir there is. It is incredible!! I must say is is by far the smoothest and has least amount of vibration out of any of my machines- band saw, PM66, fdri;; press, sander...and for such a pwerful beast, thats really impressive to me.
Very well built and easy to use.
It was a challenge to figure out how get off the pallet, since it weighs >1000# and the hoist I bought had feet that were too narrow to straddle. But once I found a rental yard that had a wide foot cherry picker, piece of cake. Got it on a bora bora portable base which allows me to move it when I have something real long and want a little more in/out feed, although not to often I'll need that..
Just getting ready to start assemply table, so that'l let me give it a good workout, will update once I do.