Going Neander' Well, probably mostly... or at least a lot more...

[Erich Weidner]

So, as I mentioned in a few other threads. I really want to get rid of as many floor space hogs as I can. 2-4 "panel" saws hanging on the wall, or in a wall mounted tool cabinet take up zero floor space. I've been forcing myself to do everything by hand on the three projects I've recently been at. (I'm about to start #3).

Sliding Compound Miter Saw
I built a pretty nice SCMS workstation with fold up wings and a kreg scale and storage underneath and I'm very happy with it. But it takes up too much floor space. Now that I've gotten my hand saw crosscutting dialing in on 80-90% perfect, the shooting board cleans it up quickly to 100%. I really think that the SCMS's days are numbered. But, I want to get several more projects under my belt before I ditch it as it was Festool expensive, and I spent a good weekend of my life making the cabinet/workstation it lives on.

Neander'ing it - But honestly, I'm liking so much that I don't have to fiddle with trying to get my cut perfectly lined up by trying to eyeball my cut line vs. the circular blade (even with the laser dialed in, the laser line is too fat for "perfect" now that I'm used to knifed in lines...). I'd often have to make cuts to creep up on perfect. And plug in the shop vac and hook it up to the SCMS, and don eye/ear protection. Just a pain really.
At the end of the day, since I'm not doing cut after cut with the same settings, I don't feel like I'm really saving any time vs. just cross cutting by hand.

Table Saw
Next up is the Tablesaw, again nice piece of quality kit as like my fingers (and this one is designed not to take them, even if I accidentally offer them up). But I got it at the 55" table size (it has the extension table). I sized it for a big panel cutting sled I made (and have already given away after I got my track saw, as it took up too much space and was heavy). Now, the one thing I'm pretty sure I don't want to do by hand all the time is ripping. Again, I'm forcing myself to do it all that way right now to both learn sawing technique and to see if I really could live without the TS. It helps that I have so much stuff piled on it due to lack of storage space that wheeling it out, unloading it, hooking up the dust collector, donning eye/ear protection, opening garage door so I have enough in-feed clearance (Which in Texas means now the garage is stupid hot again in less than 5 minutes) helps me avoid using it..

Neander'ing it -Well, boy do I work up a sweat ripping. I'm still not good at it, but the 7 point rip saw once it gets close to vertical powers through the material like I certainly didn't expect. I still can't stay on the line in this grip, but it shows promise as being pretty fast. The pair of sawbenches I build as hand tool project #1 are part of the success story. If my table saw could always be setup and in position (I have to wheel it out to where the car normally lives to get any out-feed clearance), it would doubtless always be faster and less labor.

Alternatively... as many folks have pointed out few woodworkers today, even hand tool nut jobs rip everything by hand. My current TS is taking up just way too much floor space, and it blocks access to a big section of wall which has tools and shelves I need to be able to get to unless I drag it out to the operation zone. I've not owned a bandsaw for years since my last one broke. I hear some folks value it above the tablesaw if you had to pick one. That might be an option for quickly ripping long boards. Or I might sell the big Saw Stop and go for a smaller footprint model... I just don't know.

Also, I also have a track saw, (and jig saw) and due to a big project I did off-site last year (couldn't bring 20' long boards home to rip), I have some long sections of track. Still takes a bunch of time to pull out the tools and set it up for a long cut, but the track can hang on the wall and take up no floor space, and the saw itself is of course just as big as the storage case, which isn't using much floor space either).

Also, also, if I go full neader' on ripping, if I build a split top sawbench, that I think would speed up the rip until I hit the inside of the rip notch, move board, repeat sequence of ripping by hand today. Or maybe ripping at the bench? (Not had much luck with that so far... but only tried it once)

Router Table
Built my own table, but with a nice phenolic top with cool fence and tracks, and height adjustment from the top from (I forget the company). Last use was for picture frames. I don't currently have any hand planes for profiling beyond a beading blade for my plow. Don't know where I'm going with this. Shop vac isn't powerful enough for good dust collection, so if I keep it I guess I'm stuck with the dust collector. I've started reading about profiling planes. But I don't own any yet.

Lathe
I want one... but need to free up space for a floor stand, or figure out where to store it when not in use. Can't use a dust collector with it so there is hope I could get one and still loose the DC.

Dust Collector
If I get rid of the TS and Router Table and I don't need it for bandsawing (if I ever get on), that is bonus floor space I can free up!


Whew, I meant this to be a quick post as I usually do my creak'in late at night. I'm cutting into my shop time on my only day off this week. I'm headed out to the garage to do battle with something!

[Andrew Seemann]

I mentioned this on the other thread, but to give all an opportunity to skewer it, if I had to go near full neander with a few stationary power tools, I would do a 14" band saw and a lunchbox thickness planer. Those take out the most time and muscle consuming and miserable aspects of hand tool work, long rips and thickness planing. Edge jointing and face jointing (enough to run through the planer) are easily done enough with hand planes.

If space allowed, I would hang on to some kind of table saw; those are just so darned handy:)

[Jim Koepke]

Neander'ing it -Well, boy do I work up a sweat ripping. I'm still not good at it, but the 7 point rip saw once it gets close to vertical powers through the material like I certainly didn't expect. I still can't stay on the line in this grip, but it shows promise as being pretty fast.

One way to work on this is when it is noticed that the saw is wandering from the line, move the saw down so it is sawing at a low angle aligned vertically with the line. A few strokes should get you back on track and the kerf helps to guide the saw. If the saw is still wandering it may have more set on one side.

There are things a bandsaw can do that a table saw cannot. There are also things a table saw can do that cannot be done with a bandsaw. For me a bandsaw does the power saw operations needed for my projects.

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

A 7 ppi rip saw is a fairly fine cutter IMO Erich. I typically use a 4-1/2, 5 or 5-1/2 ppi saw for long rips in rougher timber that is being cut down. If you are not dealing (or not very often at all anyway) with sheet goods for case work, I would definitely look at replacing the TS with a BS. IMO, a TS shines when dealing with cutting up ply for cabinets. Yes, it does rip the devil out of timber that is thinner than the blade will raise, but a BS will do that every bit as good and better when the material is thick. Losing the TS, Especially with having a track saw as a backup, should not hurt as much. I dealt my router table away as it did take up too much room and have slowly been acquiring moulding planes. I believe that my BS would be the last power tool to go.

[Jim Matthews]

Congratulations on your successful approach.
It's nice to have shop time, without dust collection.

Regarding ripping, and physical limitations:
Thickness of the stock matters, as does "toughness" of the board in question.

I will rip stock less than 2" thick, no more than 40" in lchore. I use a Japanese Ryoba, with the board mounted vertically in a vise. I can plane all day.

Sawing takes a faster toll. Time in the shop should be engaging, rather than a chore.

Thicker stock or longer boards go to the bandsaw.

See : Jim Tolpin's The new traditional woodworker.

[Curt Putnam]

I sold my tablesaw, miter saw, and jointer. Got a new 17" Grizzly bandsaw. Put together my drill press after 15 years sitting in its carton. Kept my Dewalt 735 planer. Bought a MFT for my tracksaw. After all this, I am finding that I rather sorely miss the tablesaw when it comes to pieces of less than 7" in width. I'm finding it difficult to precisely do something like rip 1/8" from the length of a 23" piece. The bandsaw leaves a pretty ragged edge (may be the Timberwolf blade) that is prett easy to clean up with a jointer plane. However, ensuring that 2 or more such pieces that are supposed to be identical and with parallel edges is not so easy whereas it is a dead cinch on the TS.

[Erich Weidner]

So today while starting on hand tool project #3 (tool chest- maybe then I can get all the stuff off the the TS), I noted that there was some wobble on the board I was cross cutting atop the two sawbenches (project #1).
Turns out the back legs on one of the sawbenches was a solid 1/8" shorter than the front legs.

I kept looking at the SCMS, then the TS... but visualized the 1/8" piece just flying away and breaking, if I could get that thin of a cut to work with deflection issues to be square.

Then I briefly fantasized about by old bandsaw; that wouldn't fling the offcut away. But I don't have a bandsaw right now.

So after much hemming and hawing, I pulled out the shooting board, shot the end of some scrap pine (it was perfect, since it was originally a leg for the project #1 sawbenches that I screwed up), then took a deep breath and marked out a 1st class saw cut and went slowly at it with the carcass saw. Almost perfect! I would never have even thought about attempting this with hand tools if it weren't for my 3 hand tool project pledge. I'm still having to retrain my mind that I can make things square by hand sawing alone... just takes practice.

[Erich Weidner]

A 7 ppi rip saw is a fairly fine cutter IMO Erich. I typically use a 4-1/2, 5 or 5-1/2 ppi saw for long rips in rougher timber that is being cut down.

Hmm... the 7 point saw cuts pretty quick. Now I'm curious what quicker would look like, and I might get one. But what is the optimal application of a 7 point rip saw then?

My (sash tenon) only other rip saw is 12 ppi. That definitely doesn't cut fast.

[Jim Koepke]

My 6 ppi rip saw can rip a 10 foot piece of 4/4 ash in about 15 minutes. > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167535

Using a 4-1/2 ppi saw wasn't really much quicker. It was a bit more work to use.

Go to yard sales and such. You will find a few old saws to experiment.

jtk

[Thomas Crawford]

Well if you sell that tablesaw you'll have plenty of funds for a nice 16"+ bandsaw. I have a 16" jet and that's what I use for ripping.

The other technique for ripping with a handsaw is sitting down on the benches CS wrote about like the Roman style bench.

I'm with you on the router. I want to switch over to all moulding planes eventually. I bought Bickford's book but that's and expensive and intimidating thing to jump into.

I started out wanting to be 100% neander and I've setting on a J/P combo (on order), bandsaw, SCMS, and eventually a lathe. I could get rid of the SCMS but I have the space. I'm in an enclosed shop so Dust Collector is a must. I don't mind edge jointing by hand but face jointing gets old fast, especially for interior pieces that nobody will ever see and I just need them to be square.

[Blake M Williams]

Awesome dude! I'm only on my first hand tool only project and I'm learning just how often I used power tools.

[Andrew Seemann]

I started out wanting to be 100% neander and I've setting on a J/P combo (on order), bandsaw, SCMS, and eventually a lathe. I could get rid of the SCMS but I have the space. I'm in an enclosed shop so Dust Collector is a must. I don't mind edge jointing by hand but face jointing gets old fast, especially for interior pieces that nobody will ever see and I just need them to be square.

That is the rub, the problem with getting rid of power tools, is sometimes the customer (e.g. your spouse), wants something done on time and on budget:)

[David Eisenhauer]

I don't have any timed cutting data on ripping with a finer cutting saw vs a rougher cutting saw, but the older carpenters that I learned from in the late 60's -early 70's all used 5 or 5.5 ppi saws and claimed that finer cutters were slower (more work cutting) in the same fashion that an 8 point crosscutter cuts faster than a 12 point crosscutter. I have always used a 5-5.5 point rip saw since then. I have no doubt that a 6 or 7 pointer works just fine, just saying that a rougher cutting saw should be a little quicker (less strokes per cut length required). I have had to use 8 and 10 point crosscut saws to rip something and I definitely prefer a true rip filed saw for that work. I'm thinking that the finer cutting rip saws may have been more for stuff that required a cleaner cut where hand planning the ripped edge was not in the plan. Either way, a well set and sharp 6 or 7 pointer should be better than a poorly set up and/or dull 5 pointer.

[Jim Koepke]

the older carpenters that I learned from in the late 60's -early 70's all used 5 or 5.5 ppi saws and claimed that finer cutters were slower

They were likely in much better shape, not to mention the training, than an old fart like me.

That is the reason for my suggestion to purchase a bunch of saws cheaply to experiment with different tooth counts.

Then one can find a particular tooth count that works for them or they may find they like different tooth counts for different types of wood.

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

They were likely in much better shape, not to mention the training, than an old fart like me.

That is the reason for my suggestion to purchase a bunch of saws cheaply to experiment with different tooth counts.

Then one can find a particular tooth count that works for them or they may find they like different tooth counts for different types of wood.

jtk



I haven't had much luck finding tool shows locally. And I don't have time to seek out garage or estate sales currently. I read about the midwest tool shows with envy. Here in central Texas I'm not aware of any.

[Brandon Speaks]

I too use half of a two car garage that I share with my wifes SUV, a riding mower, and in the winter a snow blower so I really get your space issue. Nearly all my floor and wall space is very carefully designed to get the most possible out of it included lots of mobile or take down type sets ups.

I would hate to give up my band saw, I use it for more than just general wood working though, its also used a lot to cut carving blanks. Foot print is small and its on wheels so can be moved easily.

My SCMS could go without being missed much, it has a folding stand and lives on a shelf much of the time so not that big a deal to keep it around and I have brackets to mount other tools on that stand as well so it will likely stick around. I would miss it about zero for day to day wood working though I sure would have missed it last weekend when I rebuilt our deck. My router table is bench top type and lives on a shelf next to the SCMS however has not left that shelf in 3 or so years, I have been debating freeing up that shelf space.

I dont have a cabinet saw, I do have a job site saw with a stand I made and infeed and outfeed tables that snap onto saw horses. It also lives on a shelf some of the time though is left set up probably have the time anyway. I would love a cabinet saw but in my half of a two car garage it just was not going to work without giving up other tools to getting too crowded.

Ive got a mini lathe that for a long time lived on a shelf and was mounted to a jaw horse to work. I built it a very heavy sand filled stand a couple years ago when I used it a lot. Honestly I wish I had kept the previous set up so it could also be used in the driveway in the summer, it was stable enough anyway. That floor space it looking more and more valuable by the day. I could see a dedicated carving station there with enough storage to get my carving stuff out of the tool cabinet, store the lathe, stand, all the lathe stuff and my shop vac underneath.

I do also have a full size drill press, its not used a ton but handy to have and very small foot print.

If I get rid of the bench top router table that shelf spot will likely go to a lunchbox style planer.

I also would not want to ditch my

[Michael Bulatowicz]

I'm finding it difficult to precisely do something like rip 1/8" from the length of a 23" piece.

For taking a small amount off the width, I find it pretty quick to mark with a gauge and take a few swipes with a scrub plane, then follow up as needed with my#5. Much faster and more accurate for me than trying to saw off 1/8 inch.

[Thomas Crawford]

Dowd's tools from Dallas comes down once or twice a year, they are super nice and if you call ahead of time they can bring stuff down for you. They will be here in the fall if this show happens: https://texaswoodworkingfestival.com/

I bought a mitre box w/saw and a Bedrock #3 from them last year.





I haven't had much luck finding tool shows locally. And I don't have time to seek out garage or estate sales currently. I read about the midwest tool shows with envy. Here in central Texas I'm not aware of any.

[Mike Allen1010]

They were likely in much better shape, not to mention the training, than an old fart like me.

That is the reason for my suggestion to purchase a bunch of saws cheaply to experiment with different tooth counts.

Then one can find a particular tooth count that works for them or they may find they like different tooth counts for different types of wood.

jtk

Hi Erich, welcome to the Neander world! Good luck with your journey – you can definitely do it! In the beginning of transitioning from power tools to hand tools, fear of the unknown is often the biggest obstacle in making the transition – "oh no, how will I possibly do X task without stationary power tools?". As you begin actually building projects, I think you will be generally surprised about how fast, accurate and enjoyable hand tool woodworking is. I just finished a couple simple shelves for storage in the garage out of construction grade Whitewood and plywood and really enjoyed the project – even ended up planing all the solid lumber just because it was fun!

You raised a bunch of really good, practical questions that are super relevant for someone interested in transitioning from stationary power tools to a more hand tool friendly shop.A couple thoughts for your consideration:

* The foundation of the preindustrial woodworkers basic sawn nest is three saws: 5 1/2 PPI ripsaw (either 26 or 28 inch), 8 PPI crosscut for breaking down rough materials and 10 – 12 PPI crosscut for finished materials. A 5 1/2 PPI ripsaw will definitely be faster/easier than 7PPI in anything > 1/2" thick. You can do basically all lumber dimensioning with these three saws.. Just like hand planes, others saws that are optimized for specific tasks, like crosscutting 6 x 6 post, a 5-7 PPI crosscut would definitely be more efficient.

* I rip anything 6/4 thickness or less by hand when it's convenient. Otherwise to do the vast majority of ripping on the bandsaw and get straight, parallel edges that clean up quickly with the jointer plane.

* Trading in your tablesaw for the best band saw you can afford, is the best transition you can make to a hand tool shop. It saves a ton of floor space and allows you to do re-sawing for book matched panels etc. Only exception would be if you work with a lot of plywood for case goods, cabinets etc. Can't beat the tablesaw for that. Personally I don't use plywood much and got rid of my tablesaw 20+ years ago and have never regretted it.

* For me, drill press is very helpful in roughing out mortises and doesn't take a lot of floor space.

Good luck with the journey – you got the right attitude. Look forward to hearing about your progress.

Best, Mike

[Jake Hillestad]

I've always felt that the nicest 16" - 20" band saw you can get yourself into and a solid 12" planer are the perfect compliments to a Neander focused shop as far as eliminating grunt work is concerned. Add in a lathe if you like turning and you're set.

[Erich Weidner]

They will be here in the fall if this show happens: https://texaswoodworkingfestival.com/


"The Texas Woodworking Festival is a event that can best be described as a mix of a beer festival and a woodworking-themed farmers market." Sold! I'm in. I hope it doesn't get cancelled.

[Erich Weidner]

* For me, drill press is very helpful in roughing out mortises and doesn't take a lot of floor space.


I forgot in my original list, I do have a drill press. The few times I've needed to drill through metal, really glad to have it. For woodworking, the last time I remember using it was to cut some hardwood plugs for hiding screw heads. I like the idea of it, but I have used it so little, I don't know if it justifies its floor space. (It is mounted on a wheeled platform so I can move it out of the way). I've so far not be interested in drilling out mortises vs. chopping them out. But I've only done a dozen or so to date. So maybe I'll get tired of it some day, but not yet.

[Erich Weidner]

My current table saw "setup"...
436094

[Erich Weidner]

I sold the table saw today. Happy day. I really want that floor space back.
Now, I just have to disassemble to the point we can lift it into the buyer's truck bed.

[mike stenson]

Congrats! Mine was used as a table for many years.. :)

[Jim Matthews]

If you don't have time to build a wooden storage box for handtools, a secondhand blanket chest will serve.

[Richard Hutchings]

When I mentioned getting rid of my TS to my wife, I got the stink eye. She remembers how happy I was when I got it. I'm going to turn my TS into an assembly table instead of getting rid of it. It's on wheels already! I don't own a thickness planer but I own 19x38 drum sander for making things parallel. If the TS sits idle for a few years, I'll sell it and get a better band saw.

[Erich Weidner]

Richard, Yes, my wife was initially surprised as well. But given how many hand tool things she's seen me watch this year, maybe not very surprised. I got 70% of new so I didn't loose my shirt on the deal.
Also, since I acquired a lathe I desperately need space to get it out of the way. Shop tetris has been much more difficult since the lathe joined the stable.

[Prashun Patel]

I am in the same boat. Am really trying hard not to use my table saw. I might sell it.

I will retain much jointer/planer and bandsaw. These two tools are so versatile and take up so little floor space.

[Erich Weidner]

I am in the same boat. Am really trying hard not to use my table saw. I might sell it.

I will retain much jointer/planer and bandsaw. These two tools are so versatile and take up so little floor space.

Hehe I didn't have to try very hard. As the shop got fuller, the game of shop tetris to get the TS into position meant the first 10-15 minutes of handsawing was "free".
We shall see how long I last before feeling a need for the bandsaw. With the TS gone, I can store the lathe and a BS where the TS used to be with a bit of room to spare. But (significant but) this area will be occupied by my future 8' long bench. So I'm going to see how I get along with neither TS nor BS.

I shall report back on this thread in a few projects time if I regret the sale.

[Jerome Andrieux]

I shall report back on this thread in a few projects time if I regret the sale.

As I moved to the city from my youth countryside, I only kept a planner and a big 30ish cm circular saw. I don’t like using them, but I have become pretty good with them, processing cubic meters of raw stock over the years, from building to fine furniture making. If you were to follow the same route, choose big over small.
Rip cutting a 10cm by 3m oak board by hand is many orders of magnitude more work.
Re-saving is not ideal, as I can only reasonably manage 25cm wide boards, at most. And I can get thinner than 2cm.

Stock prep with handheld power tools is probably 10 to 15% of the work. I guess a band saw would bring it to 5-10%.

[David Glauser]

I lost access to the local shop full of power tools thanks to the pox. Trying now to work with what I have. I also have plans to move into our RV full-time in the future, which has drastically changed the way I think of purchasing. Small is good. Smaller is even better. <g> At this time the only power tools I have are my drill, a track saw and a router table. No drill press. I've been using the track saw for ripping and the like. My next project will involve making a face frame 7 feet long, so I have to get used to cutting long straight pieces. So far, on my current project, planes and my ryoba have gotten me through.

A question: What is an SCMS? I don't recognize that acronym.

[Michael J Evans]

I lost access to the local shop full of power tools thanks to the pox. Trying now to work with what I have. I also have plans to move into our RV full-time in the future, which has drastically changed the way I think of purchasing. Small is good. Smaller is even better. <g> At this time the only power tools I have are my drill, a track saw and a router table. No drill press. I've been using the track saw for ripping and the like. My next project will involve making a face frame 7 feet long, so I have to get used to cutting long straight pieces. So far, on my current project, planes and my ryoba have gotten me through.

A question: What is an SCMS? I don't recognize that acronym.

Sliding compound miter saw

[Ben Ellenberger]

As I moved to the city from my youth countryside, I only kept a planner and a big 30ish cm circular saw. I don’t like using them, but I have become pretty good with them, processing cubic meters of raw stock over the years, from building to fine furniture making. If you were to follow the same route, choose big over small.
Rip cutting a 10cm by 3m oak board by hand is many orders of magnitude more work.
Re-saving is not ideal, as I can only reasonably manage 25cm wide boards, at most. And I can get thinner than 2cm.

Stock prep with handheld power tools is probably 10 to 15% of the work. I guess a band saw would bring it to 5-10%.

I appreciate hearing that a circular saw and planer are a good combination for you. I do everything by hand right now, and have a small work space. I’m not about to go buy any power tools but I’ve often thought that a circular saw/planer combination might be a good idea if I had a really big project that I wanted to complete on a schedule.

i just re-sharpened my rip saw and started breaking down stock for my next project. It was a good re-minder to re-sharpen more often! I feel like keeping your saws sharp and getting comfortable sawing close to the line make a big difference in how efficient you are. I used to saw well away from my lines and have a lot of imperfections in my cuts that took a lot of work to straighten out. As I’ve gotten better at cutting straight and right on my lines, the time I spend with a plane jointing and squaring edges has gone way down.

re-sawing wide panels is still a workout though.

[Curt Putnam]

FWIW, 2 years after selling my table saw, miter saw, and jointer, I am now thinking that selling the table saw was a mistake. Try ripping thin strips off 3/4" stock to use as molding or making perfectly parallel stretchers/rails/stiles/drawer sides/etc. Clearly, it can be done but it is mostly drudge work. I am now old enough that the time I probably have left is not long enough to complete half the projects I want to do. Consider your decision carefully

[mike stenson]

That can be done with a bandsaw though, and that's a far more flexible tool anyway IMO. :)

[David Glauser]

Ah, thanks. I have a non-sliding miter saw - forgot about that, as I rarely use it.

[Jim Koepke]

FWIW, 2 years after selling my table saw, miter saw, and jointer, I am now thinking that selling the table saw was a mistake. Try ripping thin strips off 3/4" stock to use as molding or making perfectly parallel stretchers/rails/stiles/drawer sides/etc. Clearly, it can be done but it is mostly drudge work. I am now old enough that the time I probably have left is not long enough to complete half the projects I want to do. Consider your decision carefully

As Mike mentioned, a bandsaw does this fine along with many other chores a table saw doesn't do.

jtk

[Peter Mich]

My guess is sliding compound miter saw.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Back in 2000, or so, I went full neander and got rid of everything, except my tablesaw, mainly because it was in my basement and too heavy to easily remove. It became workspace. I enjoyed all handtools, long enough to start to regret selling everything! There are tasks made infinitely easier by selectively using power.

What has changed in the decades that have passed? I got used to not using my tablesaw nearly as much as I once did and really could do without it. I absolutely hate powered miter saws. I am neutral towards drill presses. I rarely use a powered jointer or planer. I love my bandsaw.

My suggestion? Dip your toes gently into the water. Unplug and literally cut the power cord, so that after a couple of months you can re-attach if you so desire.

[Curt Putnam]

As Mike mentioned, a bandsaw does this fine along with many other chores a table saw doesn't do.

jtk
I bought a 17" bandsaw with the idea of ripping in mind. Perhaps I do not have the correc t blade (3/4" Timberwolf 3tpi) but cut surface if relatively coarse and requires planing - much more so than on a TS. There is some operator error involved too but that lack of skill is unlikely to resolve soon

I am simply suggesting that OP think carefully about his projects, time frames and skill levels. It is easier to keep a saw than it is to buy a new one.

[Jim Koepke]

I bought a 17" bandsaw with the idea of ripping in mind. Perhaps I do not have the correc t blade (3/4" Timberwolf 3tpi) but cut surface if relatively coarse and requires planing - much more so than on a TS. There is some operator error involved too but that lack of skill is unlikely to resolve soon

I am simply suggesting that OP think carefully about his projects, time frames and skill levels. It is easier to keep a saw than it is to buy a new one.

One of my findings with some bandsaw blades is they have too much set. This can vary by brand of blade. For those that had too much set my solution was to send them through a vise to squeeze the excess set out of them.

Most of my rip cuts can be smoothed with about five full length passes with a #5 or larger plane. If the cut is set heavier then maybe three passes.

jtk

[Jerome Andrieux]

I appreciate hearing that a circular saw and planer are a good combination for you. ...
i just re-sharpened my rip saw ...
re-sawing wide panels is still a workout though.

Indeed, "sharp solves all kinds of problems" as someone’s signature states.
The use of power tools vs hand tools for everything is a matter of personal choice and stock material nature (choice again).

I have the chance to live less than a kilometer from a traditional saw mill, which can provide mostly local oak, beech, hornbeam, elm, chestnut and fir in raw thick boards (2 to 5 inches thick) or dimensioned stock, on demand. Wood is priced by m3, and it’s twice as expensive when buying dimensioned. Good quality oak is over 1000€/m3.

It makes sense to me to buy raw, break to usable pieces with power tools and do the final dimensioning later by hand. That’s still quite some work. My garden soil is happy with all the non treated chips and shavings :)

Someone with deeper pockets could just as well orde the same wood, dimensioned by the saw mill and only do the Hand tools part.


Being able to start from the big boards is eventually a good way to get interesting lots though. Two weeks ago, I went to buy some top grade peer wood 2 hours away ( French do consider that a lot) for a sixth of Parisian prices (3300€/m3, tax excluded). I have tried to break that down by hand but let me tell you that rip cutting 3inch thick 20 years old peer wood is more akin to a punishment than a workout.
I spent the time saved with experiments of extracting tanins from the leftover bark and brewing iron acetate :)

[Richard Hutchings]

I haven't ripped a board by hand yet as I haven't finished restoring my rip saw. My plan is to use it for small jobs only and bandsaw the rest. I like the idea of hand tools as a workout so I'll do my best to use the handsaw when it's done.

[Jerome Andrieux]

I haven't ripped a board by hand yet as I haven't finished restoring my rip saw. My plan is to use it for small jobs only and bandsaw the rest. I like the idea of hand tools as a workout so I'll do my best to use the handsaw when it's done.

resawing reasonable pieces (say 1"x10"x50") into thinner boards is the best full body workout I can recommend. Standing up in front of the work is much better than bent over a sawhorse. You can even put your feet to the work :)

I find rip cutting to narrow a board is more fatigue than workout.

[Christopher Charles]

Jerome, you must have more Neander in you than I!

I have a nice bandsaw and it has definitely paid for itself by allowing me to efficiently dimension lumber from free and near free sources of wood. And shop-sawn veneer is a favored theme. Definitely, hands-down, would be the last power tool I sold.

Erich, have been enjoying watching your projects and good luck with the shop rearrangements.

Best,
Chris

[John Petsche]

Congrats on selling your table saw. I would recommend the following book for a hybrid woodworker, it is by Jim Tolpin and is called "The new traditional woodworker". https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1440304289/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=jimtolpincom-20.

In my experience the following tools compliment a hybrid shop well. A 15-16" bandsaw (PM1500), festool TS-55 (can be used for jointing edges and crosscutting boards--with Peter Parfits crosscut jigs it is better than an MFT, 12" dewalt planer, and a drill press. I have a dedicated crosscut parf guide board that is setup with a fixed 90 degree fence w/flip stops for the festool TS55 that I set on-top of sawhorses or a workbench when dedicated crosscuts are needed and stores on the wall when not in use.

I also have a portable dewalt 8.25" table saw that is stored in a shed and Kapex on a rolling stand that I only use outdoors on the occasional home DIY project. These tools are the largest dust producers which is why they aren't used inside my shop. Good luck, I think you will find that hybrid woodworking is enjoyable and certain machines enhance that experience and do not detract from it.

[Richard Hutchings]

My answer to planers are handplanes and a 19x38 drum sander. I have small bandsaw that handles most of ripping needs. I may upgrade that someday but I really don't have much need for instruments. I get my back and sides cut almost to size and then run through the DS to final dimensions. I love hybrid woodworking but try to steer towards hand tools whenever possible.

[Erich Weidner]

Thank John,

I actually have a Festool tracksaw (and jigsaw, and ROS, and Domino...) So I'll probably never be totally neander. But I find I only want to use the tracksaw on plywood. I am hand sawing all solid wood. I also will probably never get rid of my drill press. Just used it the other day to drill some clearance holes in steel to put some casters on my lathe stand. Can't imagine doing that by hand. :)

[Erich Weidner]

Well, I sold the Tablesaw to a friend who has no interest in hand tools, but does have interest in keeping his fingers. :)
The Festool SCMS went to a co-worker (who I had no idea was a woodworker) who is also a creeker and saw the classified post. Small world!

Up next, need to get rid of the giant air compressor.

Also, I bought a lathe and bed extension... it is now on retractable casters. But this was a step backwards for freeing up shop space. Doh!

[Tom Bender]

Yes from your picture the air compressor has to go.

When My MIL bought me a lathe it refreshed my interest in woodworking. I don't use it much but it's great to be able to add turned details to otherwise uninteresting pieces. Little turned columns for shelf dividers, urned legs on my bench, and on the mailbox, and many more. OTOH I really have no use for turned bowls or plates.

[Jim Koepke]

Also, I bought a lathe and bed extension...

A lathe comes in handy for making tool handles. Most of my chisels have shop made handles.

My current project is a small stool for SWMBO. Two of the three legs have been finished on the lathe.

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

I got the lathe because I want to (eventually) do chairs. It is fun, but I'm already seeing I'm going to have to get a wheeled stand for the grinder. It needs to get used too frequently while turning to have to pull it out from under the router table. There goes some more floor space. (Sigh). :)

[David Bassett]

... It needs to get used too frequently while turning to have to pull it out from under the router table. There goes some more floor space. (Sigh). :)

Could you mount it on a base, e.g. 18mm, or greater, baltic birch plywood and get that out when turning and clamp it to something solid but not used so much when turning? E.g. the end of your work bench.

That way you can stow it between turning (& sharpening) sessions and avoid tying up the floor space, but still have it out while actually turning.

[Erich Weidner]

Thanks David. Actually, I already did that. :) Kind of had to to mount the wolverine sharpening jig. I also added some handles.
It is just a pain to have to fish it out each time, but I guess I should just not be so lazy. The floor space is precious. Bonus, it is heavy enough I don't need to clamp it down.