Major surgery on workbench top?

[Steve Mathews]

I purchased at a very reasonable price a nice workbench made by a member here. It has served me well but one of the reason it was let go was because the PO wanted to make another workbench, a better one learning from the experience from the first. It comes time for me as well to build something better. The major problem with the one I have now is the glue joints have separated in places. The top is also uneven and needs to be resurfaced. Wood is very expensive here in Northern Arizona and the top alone would cost well over $1k based on pricing a few years ago. The top is made out of 1 3/4" x 3 1/4" maple. There are no end caps. Is it possible to salvage the top by separating the individual sections by perhaps sawing along the glue line, jointing and gluing it back together again?

[Derek Cohen]

Steve, can you post a few pics?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Kevin Jenness]

"Is it possible to salvage the top by separating the individual sections by perhaps sawing along the glue line, jointing and gluing it back together again? "

Yes. Is it worth the effort? Depends how bad it is. Is it affecting the bench's functionality or is it a cosmetic issue? Is it getting worse?

[Brian Tymchak]

The major problem with the one I have now is the glue joints have separated in places. The top is also uneven and needs to be resurfaced....

The top is made out of 1 3/4" x 3 1/4" maple. There are no end caps. Is it possible to salvage the top by separating the individual sections by perhaps sawing along the glue line, jointing and gluing it back together again?

I would certainly try to save the top by ripping the glue line with a high quality rip blade. Make absolutely sure there is no metal rod or bolts in the top. You will lose some width so if the top originally set flush with the legs, that could be an issue. Depending on how many glue lines you need to fix, possibly think of adding a single lamination and resize as needed.

Make sure you use plenty of glue on your joints. The problem you are fixing may be due to the joints being "glue starved" where either not enough glue was used or the clamp pressure was too much and squeezed the joint dry.

[Mel Fulks]

I would not spend a lot of time fixing it. More work than starting from scratch. Glue it where glue will work and use
PL Premium urethane adhesive where glue won't work. Screw plywood to both sides. Some restaurant supply places
sell used butcher block stuff, and sometimes it smells like bacon!

[John TenEyck]

A bench just needs to be flat, not pretty. I would flatten the top with a router sled and then skin it with a sheet of 1/8" or 1/4" tempered Masonite. You can make a router sled in less than an hour and flatten the top in another. Then attach the Masonite with a few brads or spots of glue so that you can peel it off and flip it over when it gets too nasty to look at.

You'll have a nice flat top again in less than a morning's work.

John

[Steve Mathews]

Here are some photos of the top. It's 3" thick not 3 1/4" as mentioned before. I like the overall size but think end caps covering up the planks end grain would look nice. The tool tray has worked out well too. I'm not crazy about the Veritas vise. The biggest issue though are the gaps between some of the planks. I realize those of you back east have much better access to affordable wood. Unfortunately it's very expensive here and that has to factor into my decision to start from scratch or build on what I already have.

PS Skinning the top with Masonite isn't goin' to happen. It just doesn't seem right.

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[David Publicover]

Why not just fill the gaps with some epoxy resin and flatten the top? You could probably add end caps to your current top and change the vice if you felt strongly about it. Good luck!

[John TenEyck]

Here are some photos of the top. It's 3" thick not 3 1/4" as mentioned before. I like the overall size but think end caps covering up the planks end grain would look nice. The tool tray has worked out well too. I'm not crazy about the Veritas vise. The biggest issue though are the gaps between some of the planks. I realize those of you back east have much better access to affordable wood. Unfortunately it's very expensive here and that has to factor into my decision to start from scratch or build on what I already have.

PS Skinning the top with Masonite isn't goin' to happen. It just doesn't seem right.

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OK, then fill all the cracks with epoxy and sawdust and then flatten it with a router sled. You can add the Masonite at any time.

John

[Jim Becker]

Honestly, that's a good starting point. Fill the gaps with resin, flatten it and be done. The most important thing about a bench is that it is flat; looks are secondary. Filling the gaps with resin will stabilize them and remove the recess for dust, etc., to collect in. IMHO, of course.

While end caps look nice, they bring requirements to deal with wood movement. Consider something like Derek recently posted where the "end cap" is really an adjustable planing stop that you can move up and down. It will "cover" the end grain that you don't prefer but actually have a function.

Vice type is pretty personal. You can add a face vice or some other accommodations if you prefer.

[Derek Cohen]

I would rip it apart. The reason I asked for photos was to determine if the top was worth the work, and it looks to be. Also why the boards are coming apart. Not sure on the latter - movement?

A quick-fix is rarely satisfying or satisfactory. In this case, if the top continues moving, you would wind up with widening gaps with epoxy hanging out. Ugh!

Slice up, joint and re-glue the weak sections. You may need to do more than you want, and then require adding to recover the width.

You may wish to read this article of mine for inspiration :) http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/DodgedaBullet.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve Mathews]

I like the idea of filling the gaps with resin and/or resin mixed with sawdust. If that doesn't work I can always revisit the major surgery idea. Any recommendation on a type of resin if there are differences? I suppose it should be thin enough to run down into the small gaps.

[Wes Grass]

Epoxy and sawdust ... just put the masonite on. You're not gonna want to look at that anyway.

I think I'd cut it apart and reglue. And I'd go with the bandsaw if possible. But if you can rip 3" thick on the tablesaw and get a glue ready surface it'd save a lot of work.

[Jamie Buxton]

How are you going to rip that top along the glue lines? At over 3" thick, it is too thick for a 10" table saw to cut. Also, my guess is that the cracks say that there's some tension in the wood, so ripping it on the table saw may pinch the blade enough to scare you. A band saw would give you less danger from blade pinches, but it would have to be pretty big to handle that top. No track saw I know of will cut 3" deep, nor will the usual circular saw. There are beam saws (large diameter circular saws) which could be used with a straight edge. Or you could use a sawzall. The trouble with a sawzall is that it is rather uncontrolled. That approach will probably eat a lot of lumber as you straighten out the uncontrolled saw lines.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, the sheer size is one reason I suggested filling and flattening. Ripping it apart by sawing requires pretty stout equipment to do it safely.

[Jamie Buxton]

Here's a Makita 10" circular saw which would do the job. https://www.amazon.com/Makita-HS0600-10-1-Circular-Saw/dp/B071SB4H8J/ref=asc_df_B071SB4H8J/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309811990469&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6988821792134797275&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031928&hvtargid=pla-499687009157&psc=1

[Steve Mathews]

Here's a Makita 10" circular saw which would do the job. https://www.amazon.com/Makita-HS0600-10-1-Circular-Saw/dp/B071SB4H8J/ref=asc_df_B071SB4H8J/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309811990469&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6988821792134797275&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031928&hvtargid=pla-499687009157&psc=1

Big Foot and other beam saws come up on CL often. But at the price of the Makita above that might be a way to go. There's no way I can handle the table and push it through a table saw or bandsaw.

[John K Jordan]

I like the idea of filling the gaps with resin and/or resin mixed with sawdust. If that doesn't work I can always revisit the major surgery idea. Any recommendation on a type of resin if there are differences? I suppose it should be thin enough to run down into the small gaps.

To me, for a workbench that top certainly looks perfect and well worth saving.

You said "...the glue joints have separated in places." Does this mean they separated a while back and haven't changed since, or does this mean they are still separating and will possibly separate more? If the latter (did you move the bench to a drier climate?) the wood may still be shrinking. In that case filling the gaps with resin might just be a bandaid and the boards may continue to pull apart. But if the boards separated long ago and haven't changed since, then the resin should be fine.

When I built a table with a top like that from kiln-dried hard maple I drilled holes and pulled the boards tight in three or four places with 3/8" all-thread steel rods, washers, and nuts. I then glued an extra board on either side to hide the steel. I built the table in the late '70s and we are still using it today. It tried to separate in the 80s when we put it directly adjacent to a kitchen stove and years of heat from the cooktop dried of the ends of some boards on one end. This caused several short gaps but the threaded rods kept the top together and the gaps couldn't go far. Several years after moving the table to a new location I filled the short gaps with resin and there has been no further movement in 15 years.

The point is if the wood is still changing, the top may continue to separate and resin won't stop it. Adding support rods now may keep it together and functional. Flatten with a plane or router sled, and fill what gaps annoy you.

[Matt Day]

Don’t bother trying to rip it down. As said, it’ll be too heavy and bulky to rip on a TS, even if you had a 12” blade (as said a 10” blade will not cut all the way through). Guided circuits saw, yes, that’ll do it. But think of all the burn and slow cutting the saw would do, even if you could make the cuts all parallel. Then you’d need to joint and plane them all, and would have to add more wood to the new glue up. You’re in for an adventure if you go down that road.

Just fill the cracks, router sled flatten, and use Masonite or not.

[Brian Tymchak]

...Adding support rods now may keep it together and functional.

Going over this in my mind. Assume the top is about 24" wide after removing the tool tray. How would you drill through the top accurately? I had problems keeping the drill straight for 8" deep holes when I built my lumber rack. I'd probably come out the top or bottom surface trying to go 24".

[Steve Mathews]

To me, for a workbench that top certainly looks perfect and well worth saving.

You said "...the glue joints have separated in places." Does this mean they separated a while back and haven't changed since, or does this mean they are still separating and will possibly separate more? If the latter (did you move the bench to a drier climate?) the wood may still be shrinking. In that case filling the gaps with resin might just be a bandaid and the boards may continue to pull apart. But if the boards separated long ago and haven't changed since, then the resin should be fine.

When I built a table with a top like that from kiln-dried hard maple I drilled holes and pulled the boards tight in three or four places with 3/8" all-thread steel rods, washers, and nuts. I then glued an extra board on either side to hide the steel. I built the table in the late '70s and we are still using it today. It tried to separate in the 80s when we put it directly adjacent to a kitchen stove and years of heat from the cooktop dried of the ends of some boards on one end. This caused several short gaps but the threaded rods kept the top together and the gaps couldn't go far. Several years after moving the table to a new location I filled the short gaps with resin and there has been no further movement in 15 years.

The point is if the wood is still changing, the top may continue to separate and resin won't stop it. Adding support rods now may keep it together and functional. Flatten with a plane or router sled, and fill what gaps annoy you.


The top was moved from inland SoCal to northern Arizona, a much drier climate. There were gaps in the planks when I got it but I can't recall if they are getting worse. It's made out of such nice wood that it saddens me that it's in this condition. That reason alone is motivation enough to give it the fit and finish it deserves. Derek's article is also inspiring and encouraging. I haven't made up my mind yet but I'm currently leaning in the rebuild direction. There are a few projects that need to be done beforehand and a firm game plan put together. One thing I'll probably need to do is build a temporary workbench for and during the rebuild. It would be cumbersome not to have something to work on. I was thinking perhaps to build one of Rob Cosman's starter workbenches, the one he provides to his Purple Heart recipients, and give it away after my rebuild is complete. That's my beginning thoughts for now.

[John K Jordan]

The top was moved from inland SoCal to northern Arizona, a much drier climate. There were gaps in the planks when I got it but I can't recall if they are getting worse. It's made out of such nice wood that it saddens me that it's in this condition. That reason alone is motivation enough to give it the fit and finish it deserves. Derek's article is also inspiring and encouraging. I haven't made up my mind yet but I'm currently leaning in the rebuild direction. There are a few projects that need to be done beforehand and a firm game plan put together. One thing I'll probably need to do is build a temporary workbench for and during the rebuild. It would be cumbersome not to have something to work on. I was thinking perhaps to build one of Rob Cosman's starter workbenches, the one he provides to his Purple Heart recipients, and give it away after my rebuild is complete. That's my beginning thoughts for now.

Someone gave me a section of bowling alley about 6' long that made a good temporary work bench. Very hard wood, tough, perfectly flat. I set it on top of a old kitchen cabinet base. Still using it 20 years later as a table to hold my incubator and hatcher. A google search of bowling alley sections for sale gave me a bunch of hits.

[David Eisenhauer]

A side note on a Masonite top - I have had a TS outfeed/assembly/glue up/etc table for 35 years or so and it works well for those tasks, but Masonite makes for a slippery surface when using it as a wood working bench for joinery cutting/chopping/planning/etc. Even holdfasts show deterioration in their holding power.

[John TenEyck]

Adding threaded rod through a laminated benchtop might keep it from falling apart but it won't stop it from expanding/contracting and doing unwanted things during seasonal RH changes. I had a customer call me to fix a table top they had had shipped from Brazil to NY, from a location where the RH didn't change much year round to one where it changes a lot. This table had been handmade at least 50 years ago and the maker had installed 1/2" rods through the top in several locations. The boards were at least 3" thick and about 12" wide and the top was about 4' wide. The boards were splined together, no glue. It was bowed at least an inch when I first saw it and I could see where the washers and nuts on the ends of the threaded rods had held fast as the wood expanded, causing the top to both bow and the washers to crush the wood in the holes where they were located. I had to cut the threaded rods to get it all apart. After some work to get the boards realigned and the top flat I reassembled the top as it had originally been made except I added two sets of Bellville washers on each side so that the top could expand/contract with the seasons. More than 10 years later it's doing fine, even after being shipped from NY to FL.

John

[Rob Luter]

I did something similar. My benchtop is made from two salvaged maple worktops, each 1 3/4 thick. The worktops had been exposed to moisture and the glue joints were letting go. I sawed along the failing glue lines with a thin kerf rip blade and glued it all back together. Afterwords I sandwiched the two together and bolted a maple apron around the perimeter. It's held up well for 12 years so far.

A cautionary note......

My worktops had embedded lengths of threaded rod that were apparently used during glue up in lieu of clamps. The plugs that hid the holes in the sides were invisible. My rip saw had a bit of a tough time cutting through the steel :o. Thankfully I noticed on the first cut and removed the rods prior to further cutting. I was impressed how well the carbide teeth held up. That blade got retired. Thankfully it was a cheap Borg blade so the lesson wasn't too costly.

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[Dave Mount]

I would absolutely not cut this down and reglue it. It takes big equipment as others have said, it'll waste wood, parts may spring on you, and you'll have to redo your vises.

As far as what I would recommend -- that depends on what the basis for your dissatisfaction is, and I'm not clear on that -- appearance or function?

Personally, my focus is on function, and if that's your concern, this is no big deal, fill the gaps with epoxy, plane it flat and you're done. In case you're not aware, epoxy is an important component of your glue arsenal because it is one of the few WW glues that has gap filling strength, meaning that you can fill an open gap with it and get a structural bond. It's not perfect because you still have to have a surface epoxy can bond to, but a opened glue joint probably will. So you don't have to get the joint to close, you just have to fill it.

If it's appearance that's bothering you, then the fact that you're unhappy means you should do something. But do not rip it apart and rebuild the benchtop, not worth it even for appearance. I'd suggest a lower key repair along the lines of Derek's fix but less ambitious (and easier). Rout a 1/4" or 1/2" groove down the length of the seam, maybe 1/4 deep, and glue back in a strip of wood, complimenting or contrasting, as is your preference. If you want to combine this with structural work, you can fill the seam underneath the routed groove. In fact, you could take a circular saw and kerf the seam under the groove a little deeper and pour epoxy in that before capping it.

You could make it like a teak and holly sole in a sailboat (well, maybe the reverse of it)!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/uBLxyyUXZaFRUbSvbX-dxTTADG6RfANMlUTYilE7wDXbwQ9NsyQ5fPxC6vb90c0P1lx1u 6j2dwK-URep0hXBjJ7jlJNNzuKazrGiaiRjnRiggL2oP8nkOAGHPmNllI bvzqKv

If you want to make this look like it's more by design than repair, change the vice chop to the same wood as you used for the stringing.

If you want to tidy up the ends, kerf the seams with a saw and glue in a thin spline with the same grain orientation. Do this before doing the top.

If the end grain bothers you, then cover it. But don't mess around with a true breadboard end -- it won't be strong enough to keep something this thick straight if it doesn't want to be. Just make a cosmetic cover. Maybe fold in the planing stop idea.

My $0.02,

Dave

[Thomas Crawford]

If it were me I'd rip it down and start over. You know you want dovetailed end caps :)

If I were to do this: I'd get it off the legs and then use a circular saw on the floor on one face and then flip it over and finish it. Just getting it split in half will cut the weight....in half. Then its progressively easier to deal with and manageable on a band saw with roller supports and a helper. And a brand new blade.

[Jim Becker]

Someone gave me a section of bowling alley about 6' long that made a good temporary work bench. Very hard wood, tough, perfectly flat. I set it on top of a old kitchen cabinet base. Still using it 20 years later as a table to hold my incubator and hatcher. A google search of bowling alley sections for sale gave me a bunch of hits.

Just be aware that bowling alley chunks often are filled with metal nails between the strips due to how many are assembled...that can affect the ability to bore holes and cut them up so they are probably best for auxiliary surfaces that can be left as-is.

[Eric Deister]

My first post and everyone that reads this will be scratching their heads. What about using a waterjet to cut it? Years ago, I had some stainless work done by a local shop, while I was there, they showed me some of the wooden signs they’ve cut with one of their machines pretty impressive, kerf was less than 1/16 of a inch. Since it’s a big CNC you’ll have straight cuts. I’m sure if there is any rods inside 60,000psi of abrasive water would cut through it pretty fast. Find a local shop and give them a call.
Just another idea.

Eric

[Mark Gibney]

I want to see the water jet in action on this top!

My take is to fill the joints and use the bench.
If in a year and a day if you hate how it looks you can then rip it apart, you won’t have lost anything in the waiting.

I sometime dilute slow setting epoxy with alcohol to get it to run into small cracks.
When I want an easier time of it I use SculpWood Paste.
It has about a 20 minute working time, squished into cracks easily, and sands easily.
It can be tinted with dye or powder too, but you probably don’t need to do so.

[Gary Ragatz]

It comes time for me as well to build something better. The major problem with the one I have now is the glue joints have separated in places. The top is also uneven and needs to be resurfaced.

I'm a little uncertain about your objective here. You say it's time for you to build something better - does that mean you want to build a better bench top for the bench you have, a better chassis for the top you have, or do you want to start from scratch?

It's always hard to tell from photos, but the bench you have looks pretty serviceable to me. If the top is uneven, you certainly want to deal with that. The separations in the glue joints I can see in your photos don't look like they would present a significant problem in terms of the functionality of the bench - though they might, if they're getting worse.

If the concern about the glue joints is mainly an issue of appearance, and they aren't getting worse, then I like Dave Mount's suggestion, below - rout and fill.

[Tom Bender]

Go back and reread Dave Mount's post. No need for a temporary bench or big tools or weeks of work. Low cost and options to make it pretty.

[Thomas Crawford]

Well I change my vote to the waterjet just because I want to see it. Solid first post.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I hear that you like that it's solid maple, and want it to look better. You could saw down each ugly or separating join using a circular saw and a guide (or a tracksaw.) Then glue in a maple shim the thickness of your kerf. Or use a contrasting wood if you like pinstripes.

[Don Stephan]

What seems to be missing from the discussion is how to joint the cut edges perfectly flat and straight if the top is only cut into large sub-assemblies. The suggestion to rout and inlay strips sounds inspired if the top has to be worked.