Help me identify this tool?

[Bob Jones 5443]

I'm studying David Charlesworth's new The Through Dovetail DVD, and I've noticed a small precision square he uses to check squareness of tails with the face. Here are some unauthorized screen shots for reference (sorry, David):

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Anyone have experience with this tool? Where can I get one?

Sterling Toolworks makes something similar, and maybe its rule's tiny end is even smaller than the one above, but I think the overall tool might be larger in the hand:

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In the meantime, I've made a little one out of cherry that might end up serving me well enough, but I want to look at all the possible sources because I only want to do this once.

Thanks for the help.

[Ray Newman]

Starrett 14D is similar: https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/14D

Highland Woodworking has a Vesper square: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/vesper-double-square.aspx

[Jim Koepke]

My first solution for a square to check dovetails was to make one:

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It was nice having a square to check joinery. After a while one was purchased from Lee Valley > https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/72730-lee-valley-small-double-square

It is very useful. My shop made square was given to my grandson.

jtk

[David Bassett]

... Anyone have experience with this tool? Where can I get one? ...

I'm not sure, it looks like the Lee Valley Small Double Square to me.

There are several small squares available. The Sterling, or the Sterling blade in a 2nd PEC double square body, was the first I was aware of. I think Chris Vesper makes a very nice one. I'm not sure who originated the idea or if anyone even claims to be first.

I also notice LV has a Starrett Double square, but without the skinny blade, that has a similar body to the one in your Charlesworth's photos. Maybe Starrett has different blades. (Oops, Ray pointed this one out.)

[Rafael Herrera]

At first I thought it was a machinist vernier, like one I have, but it looks like it's a skinny square.
I got mine for the same reasons as in the book. It was made by J. P. Ehrmann, Watervliet, NY. I wasn't able to find much about this maker.
434958

[James Pallas]

Starrett makes one. I think they call it a die makers square. It actually will adjust to small angles. Like anything they make you have to reach deep into your pocket. I have one from LV. It has two blades one small like the one pictured.

[Frederick Skelly]

Its a sterling dovetail square.
I bought the LV version and made my own.
Good tool to have.

[Jim Koepke]

Its a sterling dovetail square.
I bought the LV version and made my own.
Good tool to have.

Look at the images again. The first two show a different square than the third image, which is a Sterling dovetail square.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

Thanks, all.

The Starrett 14D looks similar to David's. I think he's using the 14MD. It's $162, and you have to buy three blades.

The Vesper looks very nice. $180. Going in the wrong direction.

before I started this post, I ordered the Lee Valley Small Double Square for $50, but put it on hold when I noticed the Sterling Dovetail Square ($60), which looked like it has a smaller profile to the blade, and/or a longer narrow end, and maybe a nicer fit and finish. I wish they provided the various dimensions of the small blade. I can estimate from the photos that the LV looks about 3/32" thick, but LV says it's 3/32", and there's no way to tell with the Sterling.

I think my choice is coming down to either the LV or the Sterling.

James, Jim, Frederick, if you have your LV tool handy, would you mind sharing these dimensions of the narrow blade with me: thickness, length of narrow end. Also, how would you describe its overall finish?

[Frederick Skelly]

Look at the images again. The first two show a different square than the third image, which is a Sterling dovetail square.

jtk

Oh heck Jim. You're sure right! I should have read more closely.
The others look like the LV to me.

[Tony Zaffuto]

LV small double square is great, and another to consider is the PEC version. I got my Starrett die-makers square from Patrick Leach, but I honestly do not use it as much as the LV.

[Frederick Skelly]

Bob,
My LV blade measures 2 1/2" long (total), 3/16" wide and 1/16" thick (checked it twice). The narrow "dovetail part" is 1/2" long. I think the fit/finish is good.

Fred

[Jim Koepke]

What Frederick said but in pictures:

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While measuring the 1/2" long narrow part of the blade my camera battery gave up. It is 3/32" wide.

For most of my work the fat end works fine.

The Lee Valley Dovetail Square seems well finished. In my fat hands it does seem small. It is still a very helpful tool in the shop.

jtk

[Mike Kreinhop]

Bob,

The 14MD comes with three metric blades, but the 14MA comes with the single steel blade. I have both, because I was constantly switching between the large and small blades when making dovetails.

[Bob Jones 5443]

What Frederick said but in pictures:

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434973

434974

While measuring the 1/2" long narrow part of the blade my camera battery gave up. It is 3/32" wide.

For most of my work the fat end works fine.

The Lee Valley Dovetail Square seems well finished. In my fat hands it does seem small. It is still a very helpful tool in the shop.

jtk

Gentlemen, thank you for the information. Jim, you really came through the the data. Frederick, too: 1/16" thick sounds great. I wish LV would give this on their site.

I've reinstated my on-hold order for it with Lee Valley. Thanks again!
Bob

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bob,

The 14MD comes with three metric blades, but the 14MA comes with the single steel blade. I have both, because I was constantly switching between the large and small blades when making dovetails.

Mike, I only did the tool tuning course, but you did the dovetail week. Was I right that David uses the 14MD?

[Mike Kreinhop]

Mike, I only did the tool tuning course, but you did the dovetail week. Was I right that David uses the 14MD?

Bob, yes, David uses the 14MD.

[Joe Schmit]

At first I thought it was a machinist vernier, like one I have, but it looks like it's a skinny square.
I got mine for the same reasons as in the book. It was made by J. P. Ehrmann, Watervliet, NY. I wasn't able to find much about this maker.
434958
Rafael, I would love to connect with you regarding JP Ehrmann. I have done some research on my end too and would love to share notes. I own several of his double rules and a friend has his original toolbox! I'm also in contact with someone familiar with his family tree - his grandfather in Switzerland was also a machinist! I don't think I can message on here yet to share contact info - maybe because I'm a new member?! We could start a thread on it I suppose.

[Rafael Herrera]

Rafael, I would love to connect with you regarding JP Ehrmann.

If you're on facebook, search for me there and send me a PM.

[Joe Schmit]

If you're on facebook, search for me there and send me a PM.

:) I just tried and there are a hundred Rafael Herrera!

[Jim Koepke]

Joe welcome to the Creek, to become a Contributor costs $6. It will provide you with the ability to see SMC hosted images and also an ability to send private messages to other contributing members.

Were all of the people named Rafael Herrera in Pittsburg, PA?

jtk

[Joe Schmit]

Thanks Jim. There were none in PA that look like a fit. :) Rafael - message me from this Facebook post. I have pics of a couple JP Ehrmann double rules. I was going to sell them but decided to keep them. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/636709974981122/

[David Coburn]

Looks a lot like a Brown & Sharpe 554 tool makers square.

[Joe Schmit]

In the machining world, those small machinist squares are very common - lukfin, B&S, Starrett, General, all made them, and variations of (like ones with the ability to change angles or blade types). This one is weird because its a double rule, and made by a very small maker who, as far as I can tell, only made this one tool.