Narex defects

[Bob Jones 5443]

I was excited to receive a pair of Narex skewed paring chisels yesterday. They're as pretty as you please with their nice hornbeam handles:

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Out comes the acetone and I'm getting ready to flatten the backs and give them a good hone and polish. Oops. What's this?

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The back of each chisel has a little crater. One of them also has a hard metal bump on it (circled) that was never taken off. The edge of that same chisel also has a warped recess in it:

434568


That's not shipping goop. It's a metal deformity. I bought these through Amazon, and now I regret that. I have no idea if I can even return them, but I'll check into it.

As to what I'll do for a skewed set, I'm open to suggestions.

[ken hatch]

Bob,

Love Amazon or hate it, they stand good on what they sell. The only catch is a limited time returns are available.

ken

[Bill Carey]

Like Ken says, Amazon is pretty good about returns. But it's a shame you got a defective set. I've had the same set for about a year and love using them. The only problem I have is that I'm not very good at sharpening them - yet. Still workin on it. The Narex set was the only set I could find that was 1/4". And they excel at cleaning up my dovetails. Which often times need a lot of cleaning up.

[Andrew Seemann]

I'd say return them if you can, but if you can't, they are probably repairable. You could regrind the bevel on the first past the bad forging and it will be a long time before you wear it to the defect on the back, and the second one you likely could grind out as well. They are pretty inexpensive chisels, so I suppose the odd defect is probably par for the course.

[glenn bradley]

The only time I have issues with Amazon returns is when I don't pay attention and buy from someone "sourcing" other than Amazon. You are then bound by their (the other source's) return policies. Sometimes this is unavoidable but, I do avoid it whenever possible.

[Mike Kees]

I purchased a set of 8-9 of these chisels from LV as well as a set of mortise chisels by Narex as well,all of them were fine no defects at all. Hopefully Amazon takes these back for you.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Like Ken says, Amazon is pretty good about returns. But it's a shame you got a defective set. I've had the same set for about a year and love using them. The only problem I have is that I'm not very good at sharpening them - yet. Still workin on it. The Narex set was the only set I could find that was 1/4". And they excel at cleaning up my dovetails. Which often times need a lot of cleaning up.

Actually, Bill, I pulled the trigger on these the other day after reading your post saying they worked well for you. Don't worry; I'm not blaming you!

Everyone else, I suppose Amazon does have this return thing down. I could give Amazon another try. Or I could buy them elsewhere.

I started with Lee Valley. They only carry a 1/2" pair that looks like my older Narex standard set with the hooped handles. Skew but not "paring?" But I don't want 1/2" anyway.

Taylor Toolworks only has the 6 mm (1/4") pair in a wooden display box. $39 plus plus. Meh.

Same with Infinity Tools: $50 plus plus in a box.

Highland Woodworking only stocks the 20 mm set.

Back to Amazon. They're selling them through Taylor anyway. But no box.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I purchased a set of 8-9 of these chisels from LV as well as a set of mortise chisels by Narex as well,all of them were fine no defects at all. Hopefully Amazon takes these back for you.

Mike, so did I: it was the "Narex Classic Bevel-edged Chisel" set of 7 widths: 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, and 1". I've had them for years and found them to be a good mid-level bargain. They get very sharp very quickly (a few strokes) and hold the edge...pretty well. But the skew chisels are going to be taken out for light duty to nip away vestiges of fibers left after the release cut, so I figure they will need far less frequent sharpening.

Anyone can make a bad piece of metal, but it doesn't speak well of their quality control to let these out the door.

I've already arranged for the return and replacement. Amazon makes it a trivial process!

[John Keeton]

Bob, among many other factors, I think “quality control” involves inspection of finished goods. And, price is somewhat dependent on frequency. For instance, I suspect Dave Jeske, or someone in his small company, individually inspects every single Blue Spruce chisel and that frequency is reflected in the price. Narex, on the other hand, may only inspect every tenth chisel, for example, and price reflects that.

Obviously, there are many other factors that enter into “quality control”, but you may have just ended up with a pair of chisels that were never individually inspected. I have had a small set of Narex bench chisels for several years as well as a set of Blue Spruce dovetail chisels, skews, fishtail, etc. I like the Narex and use them for many things. They are the first chisel I grab, mostly because they offer a very affordable tool and I am not afraid of abusing them. But, they are no where near the same category of chisel as Blue Spruce. If I want to do “fine” work, I use “fine” tools, but for me, not every task is “fine work.” Sometimes, I just need material “out of the way” and Narex gets that job done. As a plus, if the Narex gets damaged in the process it is a $10 tool and not a $95 tool.

Long response to simply say that the defects you experienced are not acceptable, but probably not unexpected given the price. I wouldn’t be happy either and would return them, but as in most things, price usually reflects quality.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Bob,

Since you purchased these from Amazon, return them, as Amazon has a liberal return policy. Other vendors that sell Narex, such as Highland Hardware and Lee Valley, have equally fine satisfaction policies.

I can't really see much detail on your photos, but the one with the crater on the edge, should be returned. The other, I cannot really tell what the issue is. In any case, these are user type tools, and not collectors. Get your replacements and use them! Marks on tools, from legitimate use, are marks of honor!

[Bill Carey]

Hope the replacements are up to snuff Bob. I have the bench and mortise chisels from Narex; they are well worth what they cost. There are better ones out there, but these serve me well. Let us know how you like them after you get to using them.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bob,

Since you purchased these from Amazon, return them, as Amazon has a liberal return policy. Other vendors that sell Narex, such as Highland Hardware and Lee Valley, have equally fine satisfaction policies.

I can't really see much detail on your photos, but the one with the crater on the edge, should be returned. The other, I cannot really tell what the issue is. In any case, these are user type tools, and not collectors. Get your replacements and use them! Marks on tools, from legitimate use, are marks of honor!

Tony, yes, absolutely user tools. I don't think I own any collector-type tools. I try to buy the least pricey tools that are of high enough quality to perform reliably, or to provide the best experience in use, and will last a lifetime. I'm confident the replacement Narex skew set will work fine once I prepare them. I like the small lands on both these and the Classic set.

My next question to pursue is whether I can tell a difference in the steel between my trusty old Narex Classics and the new set of Lie-Nielsen bevel edge chisels that came in this week. I hope to grind one set at 30º for chopping and the other at 25º or even lower for paring (with higher secondary bevels on each). The L-Ns already came at 30º and the Narex has always been 25º, so I might keep them there. Hard for chopping and less brittle for paring, right? I know that's a little simplistic, so someone set me straight if I have it wrong. Oops, that might just open up a can of worms.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Like Ken says, Amazon is pretty good about returns. But it's a shame you got a defective set. I've had the same set for about a year and love using them. The only problem I have is that I'm not very good at sharpening them - yet. Still workin on it. The Narex set was the only set I could find that was 1/4". And they excel at cleaning up my dovetails. Which often times need a lot of cleaning up.

If you make it to Columbus Ohio for some reason, bring them along and we can have a sharpening party....

I think I am reading that wrong.... You could not find a 1/4" chisel?

Lee Valley Bevel-Edge is $15.10, but of course the one that you want is with the PM-V11 ($88). They stanley sweetheart is $37 (https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-16-782-Sweetheart-Socket-Chisel/dp/B004UQRAYY).

:-)

[Bob Jones 5443]

I think I am reading that wrong.... You could not find a 1/4" chisel?

Lee Valley Bevel-Edge is $15.10, but of course the one that you want is with the PM-V11 ($88). They stanley sweetheart is $37 (https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-16-782-Sweetheart-Socket-Chisel/dp/B004UQRAYY).

:-)

We're talking about the skew chisels. There are lots of bevel edge (square) chisels.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Tony, yes, absolutely user tools. I don't think I own any collector-type tools.


I purchased a Case seahorse Whittler knife with Damascus Steel with every intention of using it (https://deadwoodknives.com/p-ca31303-case-xx-sawcut-chestnut-bone-damascus-steel-seahorse-whittler-500-made-pocket-knife-31303). I could not even bring myself to sharpen it. Then again, I do own lots of knives. I also have a few pearl handled knives that I also could not bring myself to sharpen or carry, but, for the most part, if i purchase it then it is likely to be sharpened and used.



My next question to pursue is whether I can tell a difference in the steel between my trusty old Narex Classics and the new set of Lie-Nielsen bevel edge chisels that came in this week. I hope to grind one set at 30º for chopping and the other at 25º or even lower for paring (with higher secondary bevels on each). The L-Ns already came at 30º and the Narex has always been 25º, so I might keep them there. Hard for chopping and less brittle for paring, right? I know that's a little simplistic, so someone set me straight if I have it wrong. Oops, that might just open up a can of worms.

I heard that narex has some new chisels out with some fancy steel... might even have a cryogenic treatment. The primary thing from my perspective is that I liked how the handles looked. OK, I don't really care how they look, but, they look like some others that I enjoy using, so, I assume that I will like how they feel in my hand. I like the Stanley sweet hearts (I have mostly very old ones) and I expect that I would like the LN as well, but I think that they are O1. I wanted PM-V11, so I purchased some of those. I have not had complaints with the Lee Valley chisel handles.

I have never tried to sharpen O1 or A2; OK I might have and simply not known it, I guess I do not know what steel is on my current LN or Hock blades. I should probably not complain, I just purchased some knives that use CPM S35VN, CPM S30V, and (gasp) CPM S110V (a super steel I am told).

[Jim Koepke]

We're talking about the skew chisels. There are lots of bevel edge (square) chisels.

It is easy to turn a straight bevel chisel into a skew chisel:

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This is one half of the pair.

If you go this route, don't make the angle overly acute. DAMHIKT!

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

We're talking about the skew chisels. There are lots of bevel edge (square) chisels.

I missed that... And that makes sense. Never had a need for one. Don't get me wrong, I could make occasional use of one, but not a need. I guess if I tried one I might never go without one

[Bob Jones 5443]

I wanted to revive this thread because I have found that the skew chisel pair I received from Narex did not have any defects after all. I don't want to malign a quality toolmaker! It was my mistake. After I sent the first set back I worked on the replacement set, which also "appeared" to have surface irregularities. They were not irregularities!

As others have reported, Narex does use a rather tenacious lacquer to prevent rusting while in inventory and shipment, and it takes determination to clean it down to the metal. But that was all that was "wrong" with the first set. I looked at the replacement set with a 10X loupe and was able to see that the bumps and what looked like craters were in fact just lacquer droplets. I used acetone on a terrycloth towel and elbow grease, and when that didn't work completely I gently scraped the remaining lacquer off with the square end of a small maple stick.

Maybe someone here can recommend something a bit more aggressive than acetone for this.

But more than just not being defective, these chisels actually arrived with a secondary bevel! I've never seen that. They were wheel-ground at a 30º skew and a 25º primary bevel. This showed typical grinding marks from a coarse wheel. But then there was maybe a 0.4 mm secondary bevel. For a skew chisel this might even have been enough to do its job, but the back had pronounced grinding marks, so I went through the usual flattening and honing preparation, even down to putting on a 33º secondary and a 35º polish on the edge. Now they flick off waste in the corners beautifully. Also, given the relatively light duty asked of a skew in a dovetail, it's no surprise that they are holding the tiny tip quite well.

So now folks will see this thread pop up again and perhaps they'll read that the Narex 1/4" skew chisel set is in fact a high-quality tool. Like Bill Carey elsewhere in this thread, I enthusiastically recommend them for this specialized task. Just be ready to hone and polish by hand. (I'm an Eclipse jig guy, so this took some care and attention, but it was probably good practice.) When the time comes, I've already seen how I can use the SE-77 jig on the Tormek to regrind the 25º primary bevel.

[Bill Carey]

Bob - glad you got it worked out. And that you like them. And not least of all, that you took the time to post the update. Class move.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I wanted to revive this thread because I have found that the skew chisel pair I received from Narex did not have any defects after all. ... Narex does use a rather tenacious lacquer to prevent rusting while in inventory and shipment, and it takes determination to clean it down to the metal.

I can so see this happening to me :-)

Very thankful for the update.

[Jim Koepke]

Bob, Thanks for bringing us all up to date on this.

Maybe word will get back to Narex on this. Maybe they will at least pack a note with their chisels about the aggressive means needed to remove their coating.

jtk

[James Pallas]

Bob , very good of you to post your last one. I don’t know what that stuff is they coat things with and others besides Narex use it. It is indeed some tough stuff. I tried acetone, lacquer thinner and alcohol. Finally just used paint remover. That got it off. Didn’t just wipe off needed to scrape still. It wasn’t Narex but turning tools but the same kind of stuff.

[Michael J Evans]

Probably a dumb question, but why the need to remove the lacquer or whatever it is? Wouldnt standing honing and flattening of the back remove what is needed? What is the problem with leaving it on

[Bob Jones 5443]

Nothing dumb about that question!

There were globs of it on the sides as well. Not the best for a skew chisel.

Also, I wasn’t thrilled with the idea of lacquer bits coming off on my waterstones.

[Tony Zaffuto]

To flatten the back and hone the bevel, the lacquer will need removed. If you don't, you will most likely clog your sharpening stone. As far as the rest of the chisel, it is yours to do whatever you like to it!

For me, with the Narex chisels I have, I found the coating to be a bit worse than other current makes. I ended up letting the chisels soak in lacquer thinner and then scraping off.