Dev?Lou?Anyone?-Am. Woodworking Mach.

[Charlie Velasquez]

<tt>While cleaning out old (REALLY OLD)storage areas of our jr. high school in preparation for summer construction, our maintenance staff came across an old table saw that has been in storage for at least 50 years. They called me since I had expressed an interest in some Unisaws that we have stored at the high school.

It was pretty dark and a lot of other debris stored on and around it but after crawling around for twenty minutes I found:
American Woodworking Machinery Company
Rochester, NY
No. 1
Model 6

It appears to be a dual arbor, 14-16" tilting table,
3ph BIG motor (could not read the plate as it had been painted green)

No fence or miter gauge.

Since it was stored the school had been "remodeled" and the doors and hallway are much narrower now. The saw cannot be removed without dismantling it, but if I am willing to remove it, they will "sell" it to me for a "reasonable" price.

Does anyone know anything about these machines?
What is a "reasonable price"
</tt>

[lou sansone]

Hi Charlie
I have an American woodworking machinery #9 pattern makers lathe. They merged with Yates American at some point. I am personally not interested in this saw, but I have seen them. I believe that both arbors are always running on the same flat belt. cool machines but a little too Creeky for me.

price ~ $400

Dev is looking for a new saw, maybe he is interested ;)
Lou

[Bill Simmeth]

Charlie, does it look like the one in this link?
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=1493

How much it's worth is questionable. First, you have to dismantle it to get it out! Second, it's a tilt-table. Some folks like the "nostalgia" of this, but most others question the utility/safety in this day and age. Third, American merged with Yates in 1925 to form Yates-American. So, being marked "American", this saw probably is from just before this timeframe which probably means babbitt bearings. Again, this can be a cool feature, but can also be a pain in terms of maintenance/utility. Finally, it's not a small saw. You'll need a fair amount of shop space for it.

If all of the above don't deter you, offer them an amount commensurate with the work you'll need to put into disassembly and reassembly. Once done, you'll have a very unique and rather rare WW machine.

Good luck!

[Chris Giles]

Tilting tabletop? Babbitt bearings? Missing fence and miter gage? I'd give them scrap value for it, maybe $200, and they would be lucky to have you haul it out of there. Once fixed up, it would make a for a nice piece of industrial history for you, and would be a terrific addition to your shop.

[Alan Turner]

I have an Am. WW Machinery 12" jointer that was modified by a prior owner to have a belt drive (hece single pahse), and pillow blocks with bearings. It is heavy, and wonderful. Maybe $50 as this saw, with the tilting table, 3 ph., is probably not saleable by the school. If you go for it, it will probably out live you by another 50 years. By the way, my jointer has a planed top, not ground. Is the saw's top the same?

[Dev Emch]

I agree with what has been said. Many of us would blow a friday afternoon hauling this thing home for entertainment. But let the school know that its commercial value is scrap and that it represents a liability to the school. Tilting tops turn lawyers green with envy! I think the school should wise up and just give you the saw. It will save them money and exposure and you get a nice addition to your shop as long as you agree in writing not to sue the school if something happens to you. Afterall, your the one who wanted it in the first place.

Is this thing useful in a home shop. You bet it is. Just remember these are dangerous saws when that table is tilted and the blade is exposed.

On another note. We have seen a rapid acceleration of jobs going to china and businesses just shutting down in the states. I have been looking but I have not seen any Mucho-Grande pattern shop auctions lately. The ones that have come along were pretty lame and some were shops being cleaned out after years of abandoned shut down. I have not come accross any oliver 88s in mint condition sporting 200xxx or better SSNs lately. The one I have is 99 percent brand new perfect with the 1 percent being the wrong exterior color. The only oliver 12 I have seen of late was made in 1908 and required a massive amount of restoration and the other was a 24 inch oliver model B which was the precursor to the oliver #12 making it about a 1904 model. The oliver 88s on ebay lately have been older models with the dust plenum on the back side: not the more modern updated body style.

Most of the auctions lately have been moving more modern machines as well as unisaws and powermatics and mid 1960s onsrud/shoda pin routers. Also more modern sanders and some CNC stuff from all the furniture factories that are currently collapsing. But furniture production, esp. modern furniture, requires a different set of machines than does pattern making. The advantage to pattern shop auctions is that they often had the more desirable machines for the home shop enviroment. After all, your making a bed for your daughter not one for each girl in the country her age! That makes a big difference!

So what does this mean? One person's trash is another person's treasure. There is no legit reason for the high school to keep that old american lying around. SCRAP IT. But many woodworkers with a hankerin for old iron would love to get this item. And the legion is growing. Have you guys seen the back cover of the latest FWW with David Lamb's collection? I have noticed a gradual increase in OWWM membership with a gradual and more precipitous decline in older clean machines. Not sure where this is going but if you think that old table saw from grand pa is going to pay for a ferrari, your crazy. We may see a slight increase in price but more likely price will remain somewhat constant if not decline a bit. The majority of the demand of this stuff has been met over that last several years. So most new demand is comming mainly from newbies joining the ranks late.

And sites like this one and owwm are better educating folks. No doubt I have been suckered on a number of deals from my earlier days mostly from used machine dealers. So as the user base becomes better educated , the values of these machines will level out to the shagrine of dealers who see newbies in owwm as a sucker just born.

Dont jump on every machine you see. Identify the ones you want and then calmly pursue them. Right now, hunting down late model oliver 88s is a real challenge. Maybe Boeing and the Goverment should release a few into circulation. Right now you can find oliver 260s very cheap. Late model oliver 232 and 270 saws are tight but available and late model 88s are just unobtainable. So just stick it out and wait for the machine to find you instead of you finding the machine.

Good Luck....

[Rich Torino]

Well if it's as large as the one in the link that Bill Simmeth showed and if you have room in your shop... you could make on homungas cross cut sled and set it up with the right blade for just panel cutting....