Next Shop Machine...help me choose

[Lisa Starr]

My shop is fairly complete, as I've purchased tools as the need has arisen. My current array is:

Cabinet style Table saw with 60" rails
Router Table in end of table saw
14" Band saw
Compound sliding Miter saw
Floor standing drill press
15" 4-post Planer
16" open end drum sander
Festool EQ55 Track Saw
10" Swing lathe
Plenty of small tools such as routers, biscuit joiner etc

So, as you can see, the glaring omission is a jointer. It has never really bothered me not having one, as I just use other methods to accomplish the task. Edge jointing is accomplished with either the Track saw or the router depending on the length. Trickier is the face jointing, as I have several sleds for the planer, but really long stuff is a problem. I usually circumvent that by rough cutting the lengths needed prior to the planer.

Finally, the question. My shop is quite small and I already keep both the planer and sander on mobile bases and get them out to use. Would you consider a jointer that will also need to be mobile or is there another tool that I'm overlooking that would be a better investment? Maybe I should consider my collection complete?

[Mike Walsh]

I'd definitely consider a jointer, especially if you're interested in building things from rough stock. I have an 8" Powermatic machine on a mobile base in my small basement shop and it's worked out fine

[Frank Pratt]

Everything in my shop is mobile, although the workbench rarely is moved. If I was starting over, I'd have a hard look at a good jointer/planer combo. They have gotten to the point where change over is quick & easy and you get a jointer that's got the same capacity as the planer.

Stock should always be rough cut to length before milling, unless they are going to be very short lengths that would be unsafe to run through the machines.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

You've already said it - a jointer.
I find the ability of my jointer to quickly flatten or edge joint a board extremely useful. My planer only smooths the surfaces and takes the boards to the desired thickness but does a very poor job flattening (which is as expected). I think you'd find the jointer to be very beneficial in my opinion.
And as mentioned - make everything mobile. That's a game changer!

[Jim Becker]

Yes, you really should have a jointer to be able to mill lumber. Jointer/Planer/Saw is the "heart" of most shops.

To your specific question...a jointer can be mobile no problem. Bigger is better, IMHO...wide lumber is wonderful, also IMHO. As I see it, you have two choices here...buy a stand-alone jointer of the capacity you want to compliment what you have. Or...replace the planer you have and gain the wide jointing capability at the same time with minimal footprint increase by acquiring a Jointer/Planer combo. Don't get caught up in the rhetoric about "changeover" and "short beds" and so forth...for most folks, these things are immaterial since the former is like a minute and the latter doesn't generally enter into concern with workpieces that are normal length for components.

[Erik Loza]

+1 for Jim's comments. I'm surprised you've gone this long without a jointer. If you're happy with your existing planer and on a budget, I might keep an eye open for a used/local stand-alone 8" jointer. Or, if the money's there, go for a Euro jointer/planer. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Matthew Hills]

Would you consider a jointer that will also need to be mobile or is there another tool that I'm overlooking that would be a better investment? Maybe I should consider my collection complete?

Even the pretty good S4S lumber I find in the area has some amount of warping that confounds joinery.
The combination J/P might be a good choice (and is something I use on every solid wood project)

What are your projects that you're able to consistently work around not having a jointer?

If you really don't need to joint much, I noticed you didn't have a domino listed...
(or just wait and see what you really need)

Matt

[Chris Fournier]

Personally I couldn't live without a jointer as I use rough lumber. I also like the control over a project that you can have when you can break out your lumber quickly and well. As Eric mentioned a European JP combo is a great machine for a small shop. You'd likely have to go with a 300mm machine which would reduce your current planing capacity by 3ish inches. I had an 8 inch planer on a mobile base for many years before I bought the combo. Either way you will enjoy having a planer in your shop.

[Jamie Buxton]

Oh yes, the jointer is important -- either combo or standalone. If that makes the shop too crowded, I'd consider losing the miter saw, the drum sander, or the drill press. The jointer is more important than any of them.

[Todd Solomon]

I suggest you lay out your shop space on paper with the proposed new jointer, it can be enlightening. When I did this, I found how little space I actually had, once I had all of my tools. This led me to combine tools into a combination machine. In your case, you could replace your planer with a jointer-planer and see how it fits in your shop. A seperate jointer added to an already crowded space may frustrate workflow. So I'll agree with Jim and Erik on this one- jointer/planer combo. Another big advantage would be a wider jointer than the typical 6" or 8" seperate jointer. Mini Max, Felder and Hammer are all exceptional machines worth a look, and start at 12" wide.

[andy bessette]

Stationary belt/disc sander.

[Jim Becker]

Stationary belt/disc sander.
Why and for what? I bought one years ago and recently sold it because it got...zero use in a very long time. I found I didn't need the wood shaping capability that it primarily focuses on. I think that Lisa is spot-on focusing on a jointer here as it's a "core" tool that's currently missing.

[andy bessette]

My belt/disc sander is used virtually every day, an essential shop machine. The jointer much more rarely, as there are many other options.

[glenn bradley]

I survived for a year and a half with a planer sled in place of my jointer. I still use that sled for really wide stock but, a wide jointer is sooo much quicker and nicer to use.

I do not see a dust collector in your list of tools. Does this go without saying or are you using a shop vac and a dust deputy? The reason I ask is that a DC is usually item #1 on my recommendations of "tools to get".

[Lisa Starr]

Thanks for you insights...The Dust Collector is already in place and I just sort of never considered it a tool, but rather shop infrastructure. I have a Domino and just considered it as in the list of smaller support type tools. I frequently use the full capacity of my planer, so am thinking I might be reluctant to lose the width. I believe that means I'd have to look at a 16" J/P combo to maintain that. I think I'll start researching my options for both J/P machines and Jointers so I can start watching the used market, though I'm not opposed to new, if that is needed to get the machine I want.

Keep the thoughts coming.

[Bernie May]

Gosh, if a new 16" J/P is not out of the financial picture, I would go that direction in a heart beat. I have a Hammer 12" combo, but would love a 16" combo.

[Matthew Hills]

You can use the 12" J/P as a 12" jointer... and keep the wider planer.
(are you getting boards that wide, or is the capacity needed for glue-ups?)

I do like the fences better on the older, iron jointers. So going vintage jointer is another possible direction.

Do you have use for other big sanders? (edge sander? spindle sander?)
Do you have use for a mortiser?
CNC?
Laser engraver?
Workbench?

I've also heard enjoying the tools you do have is a viable consideration.

Matt

[Rod Sheridan]

Lisa, it’s the jointer/planer for your next machine.

I have a 12 inch Hammer A3-31 which is fine for me asI never have any wood wider than 12 inches.

I don’t need a planer wider than that as glue ups don’t need planing with good jointing before hand.

Regards, Rod

[Lisa Starr]

Wow! Lots to think about here. I'll have to do some serious soul searching and some measuring/graph paper work to see how viable adding a sizable jointer to my shop really is. I also need to look at the dimensions of the various J/P combos to see if there is any hope of storing one where the current planer lives when not in use.

To be completely honest, the lathe is definitely a space hog vs amount of time used. Maybe I need to see if I can figure out a different bench/storage arrangement for that to gain some room.

[Rod Wolfy]

A Hammer A3-41 or a comparable MiniMax 16" jointer/planer (with the spiral cutterhead) would be only about 2' more space than your planer or a foot wider than an 8" jointer. Get it on a mobile base. I think the Hammer is even on sale at the moment. (Like a last tool you'll upgrade to). The finish is almost good enough to not sand, according to owners like Rod.

I've never bought a lathe, as it would almost be another hobby in itself. A larger bandsaw is very handy, though. I have a 14” and a 21” (and a 12” Jet HH J/P on a mobile base).

[scott lipscomb]

Yep as others have said, a j/p combo. I have a 15" four post, too (that I really like) buts its in storage in another shed and I gave my 8" Powermatic jointer to my buddy. I absolutely love my older FS35.

[Bill Dufour]

I found I make a lot of drawers and what not that are between 6-8 inches wide or less. That is why I upgraded from a 6" to an 8" jointer. Wider then 8" is huge step up in cost. Remember a jointer can be raised up a little and the tables can float on top of many tools such as a tablesaw. Or it can go down and nestle below the tablesaw extension table.
I have never seen a jointer with a base that has a door to store stuff under it. It could store stuff like under taablesaw., cans of hardware, spare blades, adjusting jigs etc. I keep spare coils of wire under my planer. The dust does not bother them at all. It also acts as ballast so the machine is not top heavy and it make sit less likely to tip over. My drillpress is up on a small box structure to get it to a comfortable height for me. I keep spare motors down there.
Bill D.

[Terry Therneau]

An edge sander is one of the last tools woodworkers buy, and then one of the last they sell. I have found that out personally. I just rearranged and thinned my shop to make room for a sliding saw: the jointer/planer, bandsaw, and edge sander were never on the consideration list for removal. Shaper, router table, radial arm, second bandsaw, unisaw all were on the list.


Terry T.

[Lisa Starr]

You folks really helped my make up my mind concerning a jointer in my shop. I've contacted Felder/Hammer to discuss purchasing a A3-31 12" J/P combo machine. So far, I haven't heard back from them. I'm not at work today, so I spend the morning shuffling my shop and determined that I can accommodate it. While a 16" would be nice, I realized that I rarely use the 15" width of my existing planer and the footprint of the 12" better fits my shop.

Thank you for your comments. Hopefully Hammer gets back to me quickly and I can pull the trigger. After researching the available combo units, I really think the Hammer is the unit I would like to have.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Excellent choice, I love my A3-31. If you need it mobile, I highly recommend the PortaMate 3500 or 3550 mobile base. I have the 3500 on my A3-31 and the 3550 on my Hammer F3 Shaper.

Here's what to expect when it's delivered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1psOo6Te98

[ChrisA Edwards]

Moving the A3-31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhJdhiH71JA

[Rod Wolfy]

Lisa, you can contact Erik Loza on this thread, he's a Hammer/Felder rep.

[Jim Becker]

Lisa, I think you'll be happy with that decision. I've never regretted having my J/P combo. I like working with wide lumber and also like the ability to work with irregular shapes, etc., that having a wider jointer bed affords. And with flattening and thicknessing in the same footprint, I preserve precious shop space. Yes, you'll find yourself planning things a little more to avoid that one minute changeover from being frequent, but that's not a terrible thing, either. Sometimes those brief pauses keep one from making mistakes thae come with haste.

[Andy D Jones]

I guess I'm not as good as some at glue ups, so I plane afterwards.

I chose a 16" A3-41 with carbide cutter head.

-- Andy Arlington TX

[Lisa Starr]

Well-it is official! I've placed my order for the Hammer A3-31 for my workshop. The delivery isn't until late Nov/Dec, but that's okay. I have some shop arranging/building to do and I've lived with out a jointer for years.

[Jim Becker]

Congratulations!!! See, we're all pretty good at spending your money for you. LOL

[Lisa Starr]

Jim - That's okay. I asked you folks to help and I value your opinions. It is too easy to fall into the "that's the way I always do it trap" and never grow or learn better ways to enjoy the hobby.