Seeking advice on a new purchase

[Kevin Hirata]

For the last year or so I've been purchasing rough lumber from a yard in my area. The lumber is much cheaper, but it does require that I spend a fair amount of time getting the material surfaced and square. For this I use an 8" benchtop jointer, and a benchtop planner. Final dimensioning is done with a Delta contractors tablesaw which I purchased about 25 years ago.

I'm finally in the position (financially) to make a large tool purchase. I am torn between purchasing a 3hp Sawstop, or a jointer/planer combo like a Hammer A3-26, or Jet JJP-12HH.

The Sawstop purchase would provide for the following:

Greater safety
Greater rip capacity
More powerful motor
Much more stable saw

As I've matured as a woodworker, I've really come to appreciate, and realize the need for flat/square stock. This not only affects the final product, but also the enjoyment of the build process, which is why I'm considering upgrading my jointer and planer. A jointer/planer purchase would provide for:

Greater surfacing capacity
More powerful motor
Greater accuracy

Any thoughts on which way I should go? Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Kevin

[Jim Becker]

Sounds to me like the J/P brings a bigger bang for the buck based on your desire to work with rough lumber.

[Jamie Buxton]

+1 on the jointer-planer. Making stock that is flat and straight, and the thickness I need, is a big deal. A contractor-style table saw may be a little irksome to use, but it can do the job.

[Lisa Starr]

Jointer/Planer seems like the better choice.

[Andrew Hughes]

+1 jointer planer.

[John McKissick]

For the last year or so I've been purchasing rough lumber from a yard in my area. The lumber is much cheaper, but it does require that I spend a fair amount of time getting the material surfaced and square. For this I use an 8" benchtop jointer, and a benchtop planner. Final dimensioning is done with a Delta contractors tablesaw which I purchased about 25 years ago.

I'm finally in the position (financially) to make a large tool purchase. I am torn between purchasing a 3hp Sawstop, or a jointer/planer combo like a Hammer A3-26, or Jet JJP-12HH.

The Sawstop purchase would provide for the following:

Greater safety
Greater rip capacity
More powerful motor
Much more stable saw

As I've matured as a woodworker, I've really come to appreciate, and realize the need for flat/square stock. This not only affects the final product, but also the enjoyment of the build process, which is why I'm considering upgrading my jointer and planer. A jointer/planer purchase would provide for:

Greater surfacing capacity
More powerful motor
Greater accuracy

Any thoughts on which way I should go? Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Kevin

I am no expert and an ameteur but I differ from the rest in saying contractor saws are not very good and I think I have the best with the Bosch. Since you have an 8" jointer I would opt for a good table saw, the centerpiece of a wood working shop.

I am really struggling with my contractor saw now

[Jim Becker]

I am no expert and an ameteur but I differ from the rest in saying contractor saws are not very good and I think I have the best with the Bosch. Since you have an 8" jointer I would opt for a good table saw, the centerpiece of a wood working shop.

I am really struggling with my contractor saw now

A contractor's style saw is different than your Bosch. It has a full size table, similar to a cabinet saw, and most often made of cast iron. Unlike the cabinet saw, the motor hangs off the back, is typically 1.5hp (induction motor, not a universal motor) and the arbor/trunnion system attaches to the table rather than the cabinet. This desin pre-dates the typical portable table saws and they weigh hundreds of pounds. While they theoretically could be portable to a job site and were often used that way "back in the day", most are used stationary in a shop.

[glenn bradley]

I definitely use the tablesaw as an "anchor" tool in my shop, in my processes and in my thinking. That said, I would rather have a good jointing and planing solution that almost anything else. I could probably even do without a tablesaw as long as I had a good bandsaw. Please bear in mind that the tablesaw is a joinery machine for me, not just a ripping and crosscutting tool. Giving a tablesaw up would reorganize a conservative 70% of my methods. Even still I would give up the tablesaw for a good J/P and bandsaw. To be clear; I mean a large, capable bandsaw. Giving up the tablesaw for a great J/P solution but, being left with a 14" cast iron clone would not make me happy.

BTW, I own and love my Saw Stop but, I can cure a lot of low-end tablesaw issues with a good jointer and planer better than I can cure poor stock preparation on a tablesaw.

[matt romanowski]

In the unpopular opinion, I would say the table saw. If somsone told you that they would cut your fingers off your right hand if you didn't give me $3,000, you'd probably give it to them. Why not buy that insurance and gte a great tool? Buy the Sawstop! I did the same style upgrade from a Rigid contractor saw to the Sawstop and the difference is incredible.

[Prashun Patel]

I vote for table saw.

The cabinet saw gives better dust collection than the contractor saw.

Further, accuracy is more important in a saw than a planer. That Sawstop will likely be a bigger improvement in accuracy than your bench top to a bigger planer would be.

Next, the JP combos are nice (I have one), but they are marginally less convenient than the separates because of the switchover. Further your 8" jointer may have a longer bed and a more solid fence than some of the JP's you mentioned. Those things are more important in my shop than the extra width.

If you are in the position, getting the Sawstop with the bigger mobile base, perhaps overarm dust collection, and perhaps the sliding table would give you a very, very clean and accurate and convenient tool.

[Kevin Hirata]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond.

Jim, that is exactly the contractors saw that I have. 1.5 HP, cast iron top and the motor hanging out the back. Good saw, but underpowered.
I've enclosed the back of the saw to give me better dust collection. I also added a beefier fence.

Matt, if it were not for the safety features of the SS, this decision would be easy, I'd get the jointer planer combo in a heartbeat. The safety brake is definitely a game changer, and as I get older, I do worry about that one little slip up which could cost me a few digits.

[John C Bush]

I surface most all my stock for my WWing hobby--a friend has a bandsaw mill-- and I get most stock at a bargain--
I have a 12" jointer, 20" planer, and a SS and definitely think the J/P is the way to go. Wish I had a 16" jointer but a planer sled works well for 12"+ stock. The SS is a great machine but you will be money ahead by milling your own stock. True confession--salvaging nice lumber from rough "free" finds is a great cathartic. I have always used separate machines but the J/P combos have advantages and great reviews. Consider stock width when shopping. Good luck!

[John McKissick]

A contractor's style saw is different than your Bosch. It has a full size table, similar to a cabinet saw, and most often made of cast iron. Unlike the cabinet saw, the motor hangs off the back, is typically 1.5hp (induction motor, not a universal motor) and the arbor/trunnion system attaches to the table rather than the cabinet. This desin pre-dates the typical portable table saws and they weigh hundreds of pounds. While they theoretically could be portable to a job site and were often used that way "back in the day", most are used stationary in a shop.

Ugh, I stand corrected

[Matthew Hills]

Kevin,
where are you finding rough lumber now?

Either upgrade looks useful, so I don't think there is an obvious right/wrong choice.


Questions I'd have:
- how are you for power? (220V?)
- how are you for space?
- how are you for dust collection?
- what widths of material are you jointing/planing?

For tablesaw:
- is the sawstop fence an upgrade?
- splitter?
- (power and the detection circuitry are obvious improvements)
- Are your running full-kerf blades and 8" dadoes?

Jointer/Planer:
- The switchover, as mentioned by Prashun, does slow things down a bit.
- The A3-26 has pretty short tables compared to a standalone jointer; may be better than your benchtop, though.
- are you thinking spiral or straight knives with the j/p?
- you will need dust collection for j/p combos -- they clog quickly otherwise.

- what is the finish quality with your current lunchbox planer? (are you getting much snipe? easy to change blades?)
- If you get J/P, you may want to hold on to the lunchbox to use with the jointer.

- (and did you see this 17" jointer (https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/d/alameda-17-wide-tersa-jointer-made-in/7131816553.html)?)

Matt

[Mike Kees]

Kevin keep in mind most issues that happen on a Table saw are because of warped,twisted stock or edges that are not straight. I would upgrade the jointer/planer first. I noticed you have benchtop machines now,if you move to floor standing machines they will be more stable and capable.

[Kevin Hirata]

Hey Matthew,

I have the usual garage workshop where everything needs to be pushed to the sides to allow both cars to be parked. I think I can get the Sawstop in, but it would be tight.

I have a 220 outlet. I run a Harbor Freight DC blower with a Wynn filter. Material widths vary. There are times I have to use the sled method to surface boards wider than 7 1/2".

I upgraded my tablesaw fence to a VerySuperCool fence. No splitter or riving knife (yes I know); Forrest Thin Kerf Combo Blade.

Any new planer and/or jointer would need to have a helical head. I do get snipe with my current planer.

I've told myself that because I cannot afford both tools, there are going to be sawing, planing or jointing issues I will just have to deal with.

[Mike Kees]

In my opinion FWIW there is a obvious way to go here. If you plan to keep using rough lumber you will improve your ability to make furniture more at this point by upgrading your jointer/planer first. You have a good tablesaw with a great fence now. If it was me I would be shopping for jointers and planers or a combo. When the day comes that you do change tablesaws I also would keep that fence. YMMV.

[Mike Henderson]

I love my SawStop but I used a Craftsman contractor saw for many years before I bought the SawStop. I'd go for the jointer/planer and keep using the contractor saw until you can afford the SawStop.

Mike

[Tom Bussey]

I would go with a separate jointer and a seperate planner I would get at least an 8 inch jointer with the longest infeed table I could get my hands on and I prefer knives to the inserted cutter head. And I would get a good cast iron planner. I would love to have a SawStop saw. But my General still pers like a kitten so I won't.

[Jim Becker]

Jointer/Planer:
- The switchover, as mentioned by Prashun, does slow things down a bit.

Mine takes about 60 seconds...and that's hand cranking the planer bed. It doesn't change often because I learned right away to plan things out when milling lumber flat and to thickness.

You are correct about dust collection. Not optional. Can't be used without it.

[David Eisenhauer]

in my opinion, a table saw shines when using lots of sheet goods, especially for case work. The jointer/planer combo should shine when using primarily rough timber for furniture building. A case for eliminating the TS and adding in a bandsaw can be made for processing rough timber into furniture pieces, but, yes, a TS is a handy tool no doubt.

[Mike Wilkins]

I'm with Jim on this one. Get a jointer/planer in as wide a model as your budget will allow. Since you stated that square stock is important to you, that is where I would start. I went from a Jet 6" jointer and Parks 12" planer to a Chinese 12" jointer/planer to finally a Hammer A3-41 J/P machine with the Silent Power cutter head. Love this piece of kit. You will not be sorry for getting a huge jump in capacity in a compact package.

[Andy D Jones]

The Jet combo's jointer table is a little longer than the Hammer, but Hammer offers very well made extension tables for their machines. They are interchangeable between the jointer infeed, jointer outfeed, and planer outfeed. You'd need 2 mounting rails (the mounting rail for the jointer fence also holds the jointer infeed extension table), and 2 extension tables. There are two lengths of extension tables, 16" long and a longer one (32"?) that has an adjustable support leg. Two 16" extensions would make the A3-26's combined jointer table length over 76".

Full disclosure: I have an A3-41 on order.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Doug Dawson]

I upgraded my tablesaw fence to a VerySuperCool fence. No splitter or riving knife (yes I know); Forrest Thin Kerf Combo Blade.

Any new planer and/or jointer would need to have a helical head. I do get snipe with my current planer.

I've told myself that because I cannot afford both tools...

‘That tablesaw is freaking dangerous. Kick it to the curb before someone loses an eye. Get the Sawstop. In the meantime, you can still do stock prep until you feel you can afford the j/p. IOW, tell yourself different.

[David Publicover]

I was in a similar quandary last fall and bought the SawStop. I have a bench top jointer and planer that leave a lot to be desired but I’m still able to get square stock with them. It requires the help of a hand plane occasionally.
I’ll admit I’m looking forward to replacing the bench top models and will probably go with a combo machine due to space limitations. When I use my jointer I wish I had bought the combo machine first; when I use my SawStop I’m happy I didn’t...

[Rod Wolfy]

If you already have a jointer & planer, then keep using them and get the SawStop w/ the 36" fence and a mobile base (so that you can move it, as needed). Then, later upgrade the jointer & planer.

If you don't have a jointer & planer, then the Jet 12HH is a good choice, or the Rikon, which is almost the same machine (without the outfeed adjustments that the Jet has). I have the Jet. Or, save your money and get the Hammer 3-41, which has 16" tables and then you won't have to upgrade again.

At the minimum, watch Fine Woodworking's Table Saw Safety video, which they just recently posted for free during Covid and notice how Marc Adams makes a new table saw insert plate with a wooden splitter and use that (about 8:08 in the video)!

[Michelle Rich]

you can upgrade your tablesaw ..go to sharkguard. riving knife and overhead dust collection. have it on my 1980's delta contractor and it works just fine

[Thomas Crawford]

Just FYI I ordered an A3-41 a month ago and my tentative delivery date is September. Covid slowed stuff down so if you want one better jump on it or you might be a year wait time.

[Alex Zeller]

Have you thought about not using rough cut lumber as much? You could buy the saw now and hopefully in a year or two be able to buy the J/P. Sure it'll cost you more in the short term but you could get away from struggling with the current tools. Since you want both you are not going to be happy until you have both (just accept that as fact). Your saw seams capable but you want the safety features of a SS. There's no way to get around it with your saw. If you feel that you really want the safety then you might as well do it now. The J/P is an upgrade to make life easier. You've gotten by this long without what you have now but, like I asked, you can find ways around it.

I think that the answer is going to depend on you and you alone. For me the J/P would be higher on my list. My cabinet saw has a splitter that I find annoying (but easy) to remove when I want to do something like a tenon. Getting away from the noise of a lunchbox planer was one of my most important wants when upgrading.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a 14 x 24 separate garage for my shop. I used to try and work in the same garage as we parked the cars and am happy I do not have to do that any more. But my space is small. I have a PCS 1.75 with the 36 inch fence. I also have a DeWalt track saw with all three tracks they offer. I cut up big stuff, sheet or solid, with the track saw.

My jointer is a Inca 410. It has 8 5/8 width capacity but the beds are only about 36 inches long. I do not find it reasonably possible to joint material more than about 8 feed long on this jointer. 6 feet works far better. I will soon make a 10 feet long dining table, however. I will just use my planner on both sides and use my track saw to get a glue up ready edge.

My planner is a Ryobi AP-10. It was the first lunchbox planner. It is limited to 10 inch width. That is not normally a problem. It snipes a little but I can sand it out.

I'm glad I got the PCS. My left middle finger is longer as a result. I messed up with a 3/4 dado stack on the saw. It would have taken half the last joint off but, instead, I got a broken bone and 6 stitches. 4 weeks later I don't even need a band aid. I've been making sawdust for at least 50 years. First cut from a table saw.

So I recommend the PCS. With the right blade, I do not think you need the 3hp but it would save me some blade swapping to have it. Assuming your jointer and planner are at least as capable as mine, they do not need to limit what you make. My little tools, and a less capable table saw than you have, made bedroom sets for me and my kids and grandkids plus a lot of other stuff.

I'm sure a wide jointer and planner would be nice. But a good table saw is basic. You don't have to have that either but if you have a chance to get safer I would take it.

[Warren Clemans]

Here's how I think about it: To get rough lumber "foursquare," you face joint, edge joint, plane, and then rip. Three of those four operations are done with a jointer/planer, whereas a table saw can only do one of them. I'm a huge proponent of Sawstop technology (10 fingers is a good number), but in your case it seems better to start with a good quality J/P combo machine.

Good luck

[Prashun Patel]

"Any new planer and/or jointer would need to have a helical head. I do get snipe with my current planer."

Rich statement here. A helical head on the Jointer and planer is nice to have - not need to have, IMHO. And it won't cure your snipe.

A table saw without a splitter or riving knife is a non-starter for me.

[Thomas Crawford]

"Any new planer and/or jointer would need to have a helical head. I do get snipe with my current planer."

Rich statement here. A helical head on the Jointer and planer is nice to have - not need to have, IMHO. And it won't cure your snipe.

A table saw without a splitter or riving knife is a non-starter for me.


Agreed I like helical better but it doesn't cure snipe.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

This is an interesting thread. You have lots of advice.
I don't own a quality J/P, just a regular jointer and screaming loud lunchbox planer.
I do however own a 52" Sawstop. I can comment on that, and my $0.02 is go the Sawstop route. Since you clearly can mill rough lumber, get the Sawstop, keep all 10 fingers where they are, and go J/P later. I also moved from a delta contractor's saw. I do think that it is a huge uprgade, just for the power, stability and working surface. If you can fit the 52" that is even better. I dropped a router plate in the wing and use that for routing. Space saved.

[Prashun Patel]

A couple points about the Sawstop:

+ : In addition to the brake, it has very food fit and finish. Specifically, I like the fence. I've abused my saw, and it's very accurate still. The Dust collection is great if you have a good DC to plug it into.
- : Count on the cost of brakes. You will need one regular and if you dado, one for that. I've tripped my saw about 3 times on the aluminum Incra miter fence. Each pop is a new blade and new brake.

Not trying to start a typical SS debate, just alerting you to things I didn't think about when investing in one.

[Erik Loza]

This has been thrown out there before but if you plan to do any type of sheet goods, then the cabinet saw makes sense. A lot of the folks I deal with (myself included) are the weekend warrior-type woodworkers doing mostly solid wood projects and in that case, I would put my money towards a jointer/planer and big bandsaw. At least 16" and the heavier, the better. In my experience, a lot of the "hardcore tablesaw" crowd have:

-Never used a really nice jointer/planer
-Never used a really nice, big bandsaw

In order of how I would spend my money:

-Bandsaw
-Jointer/planer
-Track saw
-Table saw

Just my 2-cents. OP, good luck in your search.

Erik