Disappointing Festool interaction. No More ??

[Calvin Crutchfield]

I had a CT 22 dust extractor. I do not know how long I had it, but I was told by the service center that it was 13 yrs old. I was also told that the electronic board was bad and they no longer support it or stock parts. I had to ship from CA to IN!

So, 10 yrs or so is the lifetime of a festool tool? No Thanks.

I wasn't given the opportunity to get a small discount on new one, or even offered a refurbished one. Thats was it. Sorry . . next!

I am a supporter of quality tools and was getting ready to buy a few more things. Domino and track saw. Even though I want them, I can't let myself do it.

Any similar experiences? Should I be disappointed or is that kind of time frame too long to expect support?

Thanks . . .

[Matt Day]

13 years old is a pretty good run for a tech-ish product. I have a couple drills that are about that old. If they crapped out tomorrow I'd be okay with it. I do understand Festool is more of an investment though.

Maybe go over to the FOG and ask for help?

[Doug Dawson]

I had a CT 22 dust extractor. I do not know how long I had it, but I was told by the service center that it was 13 yrs old. I was also told that the electronic board was bad and they no longer support it or stock parts. I had to ship from CA to IN!

So, 10 yrs or so is the lifetime of a festool tool? No Thanks.

I wasn't given the opportunity to get a small discount on new one, or even offered a refurbished one. Thats was it. Sorry . . next!

I am a supporter of quality tools and was getting ready to buy a few more things. Domino and track saw. Even though I want them, I can't let myself do it.

Any similar experiences? Should I be disappointed or is that kind of time frame too long to expect support?

Thanks . . .

Did you try to have it repaired independently? I’m sure that in the Bay Area there are shops that do board-level repairs, etc. It’s not that difficult.

[Erik Loza]

13 years seems pretty awesome to me for a portable dust collector. The only "better" option would be Mafell on your track saw.

Erik

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Just curious, how old is your car?
I'm also thinking that 13 years is pretty good for electronicy things. My $1000+ washing machine crapped out after 5 or 6 years. Not happy about it but that's how it goes with electronics these days. My first Maytag washing machine lasted 20+ years, but it had a dial and push button. 3 belt changes. No techtronics.
I'd agree, try calling around repair shops to see if they can check it out. But not buying a domino because the VC died?

[Calvin Crutchfield]

OK Well that's why I asked. :) Personally , I do not think hat is long too long to stock the main electronic board. I'm sure that same board was used in many extractors.

May car is new. I believe dealers stock parts for 20 yrs. My dryer was bought the day I moved in to my first house. Oct '93. Still works.

Thanks for all the input.

Also, it was probably only powered on for less than 4 hrs the entire time I had it. Unfortunately, I cannot have it repaired. I was not going to pay $60 to have it shipped back to me and still be broken.

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm with the OP on this one. The thing's a vacuum cleaner. Why should a vacuum cleaner be all used up after only 13 years?! Especially a $700 vacuum cleaner.

[John Lanciani]

May car is new. I believe dealers stock parts for 20 yrs.

Actually, by law auto manufacturers are only required to stock parts for the duration of the warranty. The myth of 7 or 10 or 20 years is unfortunately just urban legend.

[Darcy Warner]

Festool stocks parts for 10 years after a tool is replaced with a new model. That is a European standard.

[Calvin Crutchfield]

Actually, by law auto manufacturers are only required to stock parts for the duration of the warranty. The myth of 7 or 10 or 20 years is unfortunately just urban legend.

OK Perhaps. I just called my local Toyota dealer to ask for a starter on a '99 Pickup. Not in stock, but can get in three days. It has nothing to do with legalities. If you were looking at a $700 tool and on the box it said "No longer repairable after 10 yrs". Would you buy it? I would not.

[Doug Dawson]

Actually, by law auto manufacturers are only required to stock parts for the duration of the warranty. The myth of 7 or 10 or 20 years is unfortunately just urban legend.

For the auto manufacturers, it’s all over the map. GM is terrible about this, even for obvious crash parts. Nissan used to be really good about it, because parts for the older cars were a significant profit center. Now, who knows.

FWIW, Powermatic has (last I heard) a policy of stocking replacement parts for ten years after last date of production. After that, better know a guy. :^)

[Darcy Warner]

OK Perhaps. I just called my local Toyota dealer to ask for a starter on a '99 Pickup. Not in stock, but can get in three days. It has nothing to do with legalities. If you were looking at a $700 tool and on the box it said "No longer repairable after 10 yrs". Would you buy it? I would not.

Everything tool/machine is like that. Not many exceptions really. I can think of a few, but the replacement parts would cost more than the 550 that ct22 cost 13 years ago.

Honestly, no use is abuse as well.

[Doug Dawson]

Honestly, no use is abuse as well.

Well, it’s not like the tires are going to blow out and kill you and your family, is it? :^)

[Darcy Warner]

Well, it’s not like the tires are going to blow out and kill you and your family, is it? :^)

I think my original ct22 is about 13 years old as well. Its beat to crap, but never missed a beat. I am sure if the control board went out, I or someone I know could fix it, but at what cost?

From experience, the longer things sit unused the more issues one will have.

[Derek Cohen]

I had the control board go on a Fein about 7 or 8 years ago ( my fault). The cost of a replacement control board was too high. I had the technician wire it off the control board, meaning that it now worked with a single (full) speed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dave Sabo]

Calvin , part of this is Festool's fault and part is yours. Sorry.

Festool is partly on the hook for allowing this air of mystery to surround their stuff like it's made of myrrh and fairy dust and that it will last forever. And for customers trying to justify their outlay on the purchase. Fact is, Festool doesn't have some magical manufacturing prowess that translates into overwhelmingly better tools.

Sure, being made in Germany by a well trained work force, using better raw materials, and being engineered to a higher standard than say a Harbor Freight widget - makes them better than tools from a lesser manufacturers. BUT - this makes them incrementally better. Not exponentially better. Fact is their bearings aren't ten times better than Makita's. And their batteries and associated tech aren't better at all then Panasonic. Nor is their plastic or castings or .......

I think your expectations are too high. That's not a lifetime vac.

What could you have got circa 2007 instead? Fein Turbo Mk1. Design and factory have changed - good luck getting parts for it. WAP- got bought out, doubtful a circuit board is available form them. Could have got a Porter Cable 78xx - for which you can still get a circuit board in theory. Coulda got a Bosch Airsweep which was made until fairly recently and still has circuit boards available. Most or all are not as capable as the CT22 and not much cheaper at the time.

Call back your dealer and ask for an OEM radio for that 99' and report back if it's available; and if so the price. Some parts are still available for the CT22, just not what you needed. When it comes to electronics it's easy to understand why. Try and get a 2007 board for a Pioneer or Sony stereo.

Did you think about calling Festool before you shipped out a big and expensive to ship vacuum to at least get a read on the problem ? Would have saved you a lot of aggravation.

[Mike Henderson]

I had the control board go on a Fein about 7 or 8 years ago ( my fault). The cost of a replacement control board was too high. I had the technician wire it off the control board, meaning that it now worked with a single (full) speed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Do what Derek suggests - just wire it to run at full speed when you turn it on. Then if you want to have the vacuum turn on when you turn on the tool, use an iVac (https://www.amazon.com/iVAC-10031-010-Automated-Vacuum-Switch/dp/B0035YGLZG/ref=sr_1_3?crid=23BWB2X8N0LKU&dchild=1&keywords=ivac+automated+vacuum+switch&qid=1591152255&sprefix=iVac%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-3)and if you want to control the speed, use one of those router speed control (https://www.amazon.com/iVAC-10031-010-Automated-Vacuum-Switch/dp/B0035YGLZG/ref=sr_1_3?crid=23BWB2X8N0LKU&dchild=1&keywords=ivac+automated+vacuum+switch&qid=1591152255&sprefix=iVac%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-3) devices. Total cost, less than $70.

Mike

[And just to follow up on a previous discussion of the use of a router speed control device on a shop vac. Look up "Fan Affinity Laws (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_laws#:~:text=The%20affinity%20laws%20(Als o%20known,%2C%20fans%2C%20and%20hydraulic%20turbin es.)". As you slow down a fan, the cubic feet per minute flow goes down linearly with the reduction in the RPM. So if you slow down the fan RPMs by 50% you reduce the CFM by 50%. But the power required goes down by the third power. So the power required (and the heat generated) is 1/8 of the power full speed.]

[Frank Pratt]

Unfortunately, I cannot have it repaired. I was not going to pay $60 to have it shipped back to me and still be broken.

That makes no sense. The electronics are just a sophisticated switch that could just be replaced by a simple switch. About $4 worth of parts + labor. Or one of those aftermarket router speed controls if you needed the variable speed. So you've thrown out a many hundreds of dollars worth of vacuum to save $60?

But I do agree that not having parts for it is just something that will off customers. It can't be that big a hardship to stock those parts longer.

[Mike Henderson]

Somebody make a deal with Calvin to pay him $60 and have Calvin direct Festool to ship it to you (since he doesn't want it). Better than letting it go to waste.

Mike

[David L Morse]

Somebody make a deal with Calvin to pay him $60 and have Calvin direct Festool to ship it to you (since he doesn't want it). Better than letting it go to waste.

Mike

That's a great idea. In fact, depending on where in Indiana Calvin shipped it to I might be interested. If Lebanon, that's only a forty minute drive.

[Matt Day]

Same here. Lebanon is 45 minutes for me too. I’d happily go pick it up!!!

[Patrick Walsh]

A few thoughts,

Yes it’s kinda annoying when you think of their 3 year bumper to bumper marketing scam. It kinda makes one think I’m buying something that’s gonna last forever. And it might, or it might not. Kapex, probably not, from what I have seen a CT probably not, a drill a domino you might get lucky?

We have this conversation in many forms across the forum. Everything is built these days to fail or companies go out of business. I don’t agree with it morally, actually I don’t agree with it in any way. If that’s the answer to employing a exploding population I say less people is the answer. But everything from washers dryers, your fridge, car you name it. Pretty much 10 years.

Now I loooooooooove tools. Well machines and hand tools, I’m not much a fan of contractor type tools or Festool to be honest. Great instal tools but always a better option in the shop. I struggle weekly regarding buying two brand new Martin machines “I own one I purchased new”. But spending $55-90k on a machine that’s parts are supported for 20 years after date of manufacture is not a risk I can feel good about taking. Someone else with high production numbers will feel different. I have been told over and over again by other Martin owners or dealers how “great” 20 years is in today’s market for parts availability. And I guess it kinda is, but in contrast to a $90k purchase not so much. At least not for this hourly woodworker. If I was actually wealthy and not just willing to accept scraping by in life to do something I enjoy I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t think twice about the purchase.

As a human I’d still be moral pissed this is what we as humans have regressed into..

[Mike Cutler]

I had a CT 22 dust extractor. I do not know how long I had it, but I was told by the service center that it was 13 yrs old. I was also told that the electronic board was bad and they no longer support it or stock parts. I had to ship from CA to IN!

So, 10 yrs or so is the lifetime of a festool tool? No Thanks.

I wasn't given the opportunity to get a small discount on new one, or even offered a refurbished one. Thats was it. Sorry . . next!

I am a supporter of quality tools and was getting ready to buy a few more things. Domino and track saw. Even though I want them, I can't let myself do it.

Any similar experiences? Should I be disappointed or is that kind of time frame too long to expect support?

Thanks . . .

Calvin
Your experience with consumer electronics is not uncommon. Try buying the control board for an LG Refrigerator 13 years after purchase. I remember the last time I fixed my ASKO dryer, the timer board was $400.00, and there were only two in the US. That was a $900.000 dryer in 1994.
I bought a Honda Lawn Tractor in 1991, that was $3300.00. 15 years later it pooped out. Honda no longer supported it, the store I bought it at wouldn't work on it, nor would they give me the wiring schematic of the TRIAC control module, so I could troubleshoot it. I understand your frustration. My next Tractor was a John Deere.;)
Now as to a repair;
Your Festool is obviously not under warranty any longer. Find an appliance repair store, that works on vacuums, within driving distance, and drop it off. It's an odds on bet that they will replace all of the capacitors on the board and fire it back up. Every part on that control board was sourced by Festool, so it is entirely repairable, and at worse, just jumper around it.
At the end of the day, it's still just a simple vacuum cleaner, with tight tolerances and filtration. Don't spend $60.00 to ship it anywhere.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Don't spend $60.00 to ship it anywhere.

You might have misread his second post. He already shipped it to the service center in Indiana and they want $60 to ship it back to him.

[Mike Cutler]

You might have misread his second post. He already shipped it to the service center in Indiana and they want $60 to ship it back to him.

Oops!! That's embarassing.:o

[Patrick Walsh]

I have a Festool sander that crapped out. I loved that sander but knew better than to send it back. I’m sure shipping, repair cost and return shipping would mean I could nearly buy a new one.

See it’s a freaking trap and marketing scam..

[Frank Pratt]

Oops!! That's embarassing.:o

Not as embarrassing as throwing away an expensive vacuum because of $60.

[Derek Cohen]

Have Festool rewire it while it is with them. I am sure their repair department is good for that. Use a little extra guilt if they balk at the job.

This is a simple job, and they may not even charge for it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jack Frederick]

Derek, they will never do that. Everything runs through legal and legal will say, "you want to do what?" That will be the end of it. Liability drives the day. I lost my Fein a couple years ago and about further destroyed it disassembling it. Sadly it is now a hopper for off-cuts. I believe that the law in the states says that you must support a product for seven years after production ends, of that specific model. Change a diode on the board and its is a new model.

[Chris Fournier]

The OP's problem is s symptom of our times. "Bells and whistles, features, ease of use, smart", all buzz words to describe in this case a vacuum that needs a circuit board to operate as... a vacuum! If this thing was used by a site crew professionally for 10 years I'd say thanks for the memories but the OP's description of it's easy life is anything but meritorious service. I have a very dumbed down Craftsman shop vac that has an on off switch and a variable slider, I've stripped the motor down twice and lubed it, it's 28 years old and the best vac I've ever owned. I used it as my shop DC when I started out! It will not turn on and off when I use it on my ROS and it doesn't let me know how many hours of run time are on it or how many pounds of crap it's sucked up. It does let me know about upcoming maintenance intervals by squeeling like a pig.

[mike stenson]

The OP's problem is s symptom of our times. "Bells and whistles, features, ease of use, smart", all buzz words to describe in this case a vacuum that needs a circuit board to operate as... a vacuum! If this thing was used by a site crew professionally for 10 years I'd say thanks for the memories but the OP's description of it's easy life is anything but meritorious service. I have a very dumbed down Craftsman shop vac that has an on off switch and a variable slider, I've stripped the motor down twice and lubed it, it's 28 years old and the best vac I've ever owned. I used it as my shop DC when I started out! It will not turn on and off when I use it on my ROS and it doesn't let me know how many hours of run time are on it or how many pounds of crap it's sucked up. It does let me know about upcoming maintenance intervals by squeeling like a pig.

These things do a bit more than off/on, if that's what you want and need (an on/off vac) buy that (I have those too). It's a pretty simple board, having looked at mine. I'd be interested to see if it was a cap that went out, which would be an easy repair. To be honest my ct22 is about the same age, and the plastic is getting brittle.. meaning I'll likely have to replace mine soon enough. Maybe I should part it out on the bay.

[Frank Pratt]

People should not be afraid to try having a board repaired. I had a Maytag washer that crapped out it's main control board & a new one was close to $300. After a little internet sleuthing, I was able to repair the board for less than $3 in parts and about 15 minutes for the actual board repair.

[Mark Carlson]

I also have the CT22E. 13 years old sounds about right. Has worked flawlessly in that time and it gets used a lot. I'd be disappointed if it broke and couldn't be fixed but I'd replace it with a new CT vac in a heartbeat. If it broke and wasn't fixable after 3 or 5 years I'd feel differently. I have a lot of tools that have no support if they break. Company has gone under, changed owners or are too old. 10 years is probably a reasonable number of years for parts availability.

[Bob Hinden]

I too have a CT22, must be about the same age. Sill working and the bags are available.

The auto control stopped working (the off part, the on was fine) around five years ago, I talked to Festool Service and they told me it wasn't clear what the problem was. I decided not to ship it to them.

I lived with it until I got a good price on an iVac controller. It's now controlled by an iVac sensor and a separate remote. I plan to keep it going as long as the motor runs.

[Rod Sheridan]

That makes no sense. The electronics are just a sophisticated switch that could just be replaced by a simple switch. About $4 worth of parts + labor. Or one of those aftermarket router speed controls if you needed the variable speed. So you've thrown out a many hundreds of dollars worth of vacuum to save $60?

But I do agree that not having parts for it is just something that will piss off customers. It can't be that big a hardship to stock those parts longer.

The issue with modifying the vacuum, or any electrical device is that it loses it's approval if modified by a non certified facility.

Electrical equipment is often modified, such as circuit breakers, they're done by an approved shop, tested and certified by the shop.

A vacuum isn't worth the cost...............Regards, Rod.

[Dave Sabo]

The issue with modifying the vacuum, or any electrical device is that it loses it's approval if modified by a non certified facility.

Electrical equipment is often modified, such as circuit breakers, they're done by an approved shop, tested and certified by the shop.

A vacuum isn't worth the cost...............Regards, Rod.

Must be different up North.

No repair shop or service for electronics, food service machines, or woodworking equipment that I've dealt with is "certified" to convey regulatory certification on anything they work on. They may be an "authorized" facility, but that comes from the manufacturer.

Would any of you guys feel different about Calvin's lightly used vac if the board failure were cause by an electrical surge, brownout, or static pulse cause by an unapproved accessory ? Surely you wouldn't think this to be the manuf.'s fault ?

All durable goods are designed for failure. It's a myth that any are built for a lifetime, whether designed and built last year or the middle of the last century. You know - they heyday of when they made em like they used to. It's part of the reason spare parts and netWorks exist in the first place.

[Doug Dawson]

The issue with modifying the vacuum, or any electrical device is that it loses it's approval if modified by a non certified facility.

Electrical equipment is often modified, such as circuit breakers, they're done by an approved shop, tested and certified by the shop.

A vacuum isn't worth the cost.

A repaired device doesn’t have to be sent back to Underwriters Laboratories to be recertified. Although John Deere might aggressively disagree! (Google “right to repair”.)

This reminds me of those old Star Trek episodes where the Enterprise would get hit by an alien ship and sparks would fly out of the consoles. You’d think nobody had ever thought of circuit breakers. Then again, that was the sixties, what was the future would have appeared to be magic and therefore implausible. ;^)

[Carroll Courtney]

For what you paid for that I would at least expect parts to be available.I thought that their claim to fame was quality,will no better than some of the less expensive.Sometime I guess you don't get what you pay for. Here's another example,just replace my ac system that was over 30yrs old more like 35 but can't remember. Had new installed with all that fancy electronics,it won't make it half as long as other. Heck my Maytag dryer went out bout 5yrs ago,to let you know that it was finish a bell would ding. Now this new with all the fancy electronics has been repaired twice,still don't think its right. Ahhhh progress,don't ya love it.

[Jim Becker]

I will note in fairness that for electronics, it can indeed become problematic for any manufacturer to create new replacement parts after that many years simply because the components originally used become obsolete and unavailable. This is not a unique Festool issue...it's unfortunately common across many kinds of products. At some point, replacement parts get used up because they can no longer be manufactured. I do agree that it would be nice if there was some small incentive to upgrade when something like this happens, however. I run a CT-22, but until the last few years, its use was mostly occasional. If it eventually dies, I'll buy another, current product to replace it. I'm not unhappy in any way with the performance or the longevity of the extractor.

[mike stenson]

I will note in fairness that for electronics, it can indeed become problematic for any manufacturer to create new replacement parts after that many years simply because the components originally used become obsolete and unavailable. This is not a unique Festool issue..

It is not. Very often, when we can no longer provide parts it is because we can not source subcomponents.

I do not work for Festool, but I deal with this decision (end of support) on a regular basis professionally.

[Larry Frank]

My CT26 has run for years with no problems. I would replace it with a new one in a second.

I replaced my heat and air conditioning with a new fancy one with electronics two years ago. Will it last 30 years...probably not. However, the higher efficiency is paying for it. A 30 year old furnace or AC does not have the efficiency of the new ones.

[Sam Puhalovich]

434372
I have 4 Rigid's that range in age ... 2000 to 2018 ... total investment about $260 ... all are still operational without a 'hitch'. 2 are dedicated: 1 to the drill-press ... the other to the router table. The drill press, router and shop-vacs are turned on-off by home-assembled switch assemblies. I pre-drill pretty-much everything ... the switch in the picture has been on the drill-press for 14 years and has had a 'gazzilion' on-off cyles.

[Rod Sheridan]

Dave, you’re correct that an electronics repair company can’t recertifications anything however electrical repair companies are often capable of that.

That’s why if the part isn’t available in some cases you can’t get the device repaired......Rod

P.S. In Canada it’s illegal to use non approved equipment.

Strangely enough, 10 years ago I bought a Midi vacuum which was then recalled because it didn’t have a Canadian electrical approval, Festool shipped us all a CT26 and picked up the old Midi.

I don’t like the CT26 and eventually bought a new approved Midi.....Regards, Rod.

[Derek Arita]

Geez! 13 year old broken vac? What a shocker! Take it to a vac repair shop or buy another. And where did it say, "We'll keep all the parts you need, in stock, for as long as you need them."? If you buy another vac, spend less and expect less. That way, you won't be disappointed.

[Jim Becker]

It is not. Very often, when we can no longer provide parts it is because we can not source subcomponents.

I do not work for Festool, but I deal with this decision (end of support) on a regular basis professionally.

Exactly my point...coming from 38 years in IT and telecom. :) And yet, there's a lot of old gear out there despite having no "insurance policy", AKA, replacement parts available, including in some of the carriers we all depend upon.

[Bill Dufour]

Car makers have to supply smog parts for eight years. Which pretty much means all engine parts and engine computers as well as valves hoses etc. My ex neighbor bought a engine fire Dae Wo after it had stopped selling in the USA. He was able to get the underhood wiring harness from 40 miles away from a Hyundai? dealer who had bought or been given the rights/responsibility to stock smog parts.
The eight years may be a California thing but I thought it was federal.
Bil lD

On edit: they have to repair any car so it meets epa rules for 8 years after manufacture. They do not have to make the parts but they have to replace anything, at their expense, that needs replacing. I suppose they could simply buy back any non compliant vehicle and destroy it instead.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm moving to Mirka when I have to replacement mine.

[Dave Sabo]

I'm moving to Mirka when I have to replacement mine.


Why not just go direct and buy a Nilfisk ?

[Rod Sheridan]

A repaired device doesn’t have to be sent back to Underwriters Laboratories to be recertified. Although John Deere might aggressively disagree! (Google “right to repair”.)

This reminds me of those old Star Trek episodes where the Enterprise would get hit by an alien ship and sparks would fly out of the consoles. You’d think nobody had ever thought of circuit breakers. Then again, that was the sixties, what was the future would have appeared to be magic and therefore implausible. ;^)

You’re correct as long as you use the same parts that the device was certified with, or a recognized equivalent.

That’s going to difficult for a circuit board.....Rod

[Matt Day]

Wonder what happened to the OP here. He hasn’t been back since his post.

[Derek Arita]

Just here to play with our emotions, maybe? Plant a bomb, then flee the scene?

[Brian Holcombe]

Why not just go direct and buy a Nilfisk ?

Maybe I will :p

[Art Mann]

During the 25 years I worked as an engineer for Chrysler Motors, the company was required to manufacture or bank parts for 10 years plus the year the model came out. I know because I worked in an automotive electronics manufacturing plant that made things like radios and power train controllers. The urban legend you are talking about was put out by the Federal Goverenment.

Actually, by law auto manufacturers are only required to stock parts for the duration of the warranty. The myth of 7 or 10 or 20 years is unfortunately just urban legend.