Which to choose, Minimax FS-30C Xylent Cutterhead or Hammer A3-31 Spiral Cutterhead

[Tony Shea]

I'm sure this type of question has been beat up around here but figured I'd ask opinions for myself.

I am about to pull the trigger on a Minimax FS-30CX from Elite Metal Tools. After doing a little more research I keep getting tempted by the Hammer A3-31 with their spiral cutter. In all honesty I think the Hammer has a slightly cleaner look to it but that is by no means a reason to pick that over the Minimax. In my past I have always heard great things about Minimax from a friend of mine that owns their bandsaw and tablesaw therefore my first place to look for this combo machine was Minimax.

I can get the Minimax shipped to house for $4500. I literally almost pulled the trigger on that price last week but hesitated and asked Felder for a quote on their A3-31. When looking at their site it appears there are no machines in stock so would have to wait 4-8 weeks for the Hammer, according to their site. I haven't received a reply on the Hammer yet so don't know how their price is going to compare. But I will say if I buy the Minimax I won't have to wait 4-8 weeks to get it.

Does anyone here have any experience with the Minimax FS-30CX or the Hammer A3-31? I assume there will be much more experience with the Hammer but am not sure what the reasoning behind this is. I'd love to get some opinions on which machine I should pull the trigger on. I assume I'll be happy with either but which machine will I ultimately be more happy with?

[Jacob Mac]

I have a FS-30C, not with the xylent cutterhead, and it is hot garbage. Beds are not flat, it loses calibration a lot etc. And minimax had zero interest in making it right.

I also have a minimax bandsaw, and after it would start, I have had zero issues with it and it is my favorite tool in my shop.

I would at least seriously consider the Hammer.

[Harold Patterson]

A3-31came off the pallet and just works. Have no experience with Minimax.

[Robyn Horton]

I've had my Hammer A3-31 for just a little under a year and could not be happier. It does have the silent cutter head and the digital accesory for planer height adjustment. I can plane the wood to the exact setting i had previosly with the digital diplay its Great. The switch over time is very quick from jointer to planer. You may want to check into some deals that may be coming soon for the IWF show in Atlanta from Felder Group it may be worth the wait. I'll add one more vote for the Felder/Hammer machine

[Rod Wolfy]

If there is a show?

[Jim Becker]

I have an older FS350 with the Tersa head and have never felt the need for a spiral head. I actually like the quick change/quick adjust capability of Tersa. The company has always taken care of me, too, including recently when I needed to replace the idler wheel where the tire wore out from just plain age and use. The Hammer is a very nice machine, too. You can almost toss a coin on this one. For the Minimax, you may want to consider dealing with Sam Blasco if you're not already doing so.

[Scott Bernstein]

Very happy with my Hammer A31-41. Worked great right off the pallet.

SB

[Derek Cohen]

Tony, I have had the A3-31 for several years now. It was ordered with the spiral “Silent” head and digital gauge. Remember, all Hammer/Felder machines are a kit insofar as you need to specify the components at the start.

A big reason for the choice of Hammer over MM was that there is a Felder agent in my town, and they demonstrate at the local wood show. These guys have been absolutely fantastic over the years since I have owned Hammer equipment (also have the N4400 bandsaw and K3 slider). I think that access to backup service is a reason to purchase one or other make/machine.

In action, the A3-31 has run flawlessly for its life. While it generally lives in one spot, it does get shifted at times, and it have never lost a setting. I work with hard and interlocked timbers, and the finish has always satisfied me .. and I am fussy. The carbide cutters last a long time. mine are about halfway through their lives after 5 or 6 years. I have a replacement set waiting in a small box, but it will be at least 5 years before they are needed. It takes very little time to turn a cutter. The digital gauge is accurate, and this makes it easy to return to an earlier thickness.

The A3-31 runs off 15amps and 240 volts.

I cannot say which is the better machine - it is a meaningless issue in my context. The performance and service are right. Price would be a factor, it these areas were comparable.

Edit to add: The "silent" head is aptly named. The Hammer can run and the level is such that it is possible to have normal level conversation alongside the machine. That was a big reason for getting spiral heads. My previous thicknesser-planer was a lunchbox with straight blades, and rivalled a 747 starting up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dan Friedrichs]

I'd wait for a quote from Felder. I don't think their website prices or inventory are necessarily the best offer they can make.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

A main reason I bought the A3-31 with the "Silent" cutter head was because Felder had a showroom near where I lived. After 6 years, I am on the 2nd edge of the cutters and have a set on the shelf for replacement. The finish quality of the spiral cutters is much better than my older jointer and planner with straight knives. It was moved long-distance to another shop location and has not loose its calibration. I also move it around the shop a lot without lost of calibration. Support from Felder, though not for this machine specifically, has been excellent. Good support from the manufacturer is important to me. There is also an active Felder discussion group with a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people.

I think the infeed and outfeed table lengths are OK, better with the Felder aluminum extensions. I have jointed 8-foot long lumber with some effort, but not impossible. Dust collection is dependent on the vacuum power of your DC. On my 5HP cyclone, almost all chips are extracted. On my 2HP portable cyclone, some chips are left in planer mode to be cleaned up later.

It has done exactly what it is designed to do from day one. If this machine is your choice, consider buying extension tables and the digital gauge along with the machine.

I have not used any SCM product to voice any opinion.

[Jamie Buxton]

..The carbide cutters last a long time..

What? Hammer sells carbide knives for the A3-31? I only have ever seen HSS -- one they call a chrome steel, and the other they call a cobalt steel.

[Derek Cohen]

What? Hammer sells carbide knives for the A3-31? I only have ever seen HSS -- one they call a chrome steel, and the other they call a cobalt steel.

Jamie, the answer is yes. You may be mixing up straight blades with the inserts ...

"Each tungsten carbide cutter (in the Silent-Power® cutterblock) has four cutting edges. "

https://www.felder-group.com/en-au/silent-power-spiral-blade-cutterblock#

Cost of replacement cutters (these I have): https://www.amazon.com.au/Hammer-Felder-Silent-Spiral-Cutter/dp/B06XKJP3PT

Regards from Perth

Derek

[roger wiegand]

I have the MiniMax FS41 with the spiral insert cutting head (bought used) and I couldn't be happier. If it has snipe it's not measurable without a better instrument than I have, the finish on the boards coming out is as good as I've ever seen. I've run a fair amount of figured wood through so far with outstanding results. I love being able to dial in a thickness and have it come out within a small fraction of a mm of what the DRO said. A very robust machine. I haven't had to interact with SCM for service, they were able to provide me with a manual and parts book for free without hassle.

Haven't used the Hammer, I'm sure it's also good.

[Mick Simon]

I've had the A3-41 for a couple of years and am very happy with it. No issues and the digital gauge works perfectly. I would recommend ordering a short outfeed table to put on the outfeed side of the planer.

[Peter Kelly]

I literally almost pulled the trigger on that price last week but hesitated and asked Felder for a quote on their A3-31. When looking at their site it appears there are no machines in stock so would have to wait 4-8 weeks for the Hammer, according to their site. I haven't received a reply on the Hammer yet so don't know how their price is going to compare. But I will say if I buy the Minimax I won't have to wait 4-8 weeks to get it.4-8 week’s lead time is pretty normal for Felder. They don’t typically stock any machines in the US so you’ll be waiting for a freight container to get filled with other orders.

I’ve owned a Minimax FS 41e with a Tersa cutter block for some years, planed many many feet of wood and never felt the need for a spiral one. Tersa knives are inexpensive enough to have spares on-hand and can be changed out within a few minutes.

[Phil Gaudio]

I've had the SCM FS41 Elite in my shop for over a year now and am very happy with it. The Xylent cutterhead does a very nice job on figured cherry. My impression (based mostly on anecdotal comments) is that the Minimax is a step up from the Hammer: I think it would be more appropriate to compare the Minimax to the Felder line. I believe you will be getting a heavier duty machine with the SCM Minimax. I looked seriously at the equivalent Felder machine when I was making my decision: the games that Felder played with pricing pushed me over the edge toward the Minimax and I have no regrets.

[Erik Loza]

I’ll tread lightly here but have sold plenty of both. First, you can’t go wrong either machine. OP, I would buy from whichever rep you feel most comfortable with since after-sale service will become a thing at some point.

Regarding Hammer lead times, the A3’s are our most popular machine and there always has been a little lead time. The covid situation in Europe shut down production and logistics for ALL of us, which stretched lead times out further. That being said, I just got an email from Austria that they are putting together a dedicated container of A3’s for the US market that will hopefully bring delivery times down to a more normal level.

As far as pricing, there shouldn’t be any confusion or games about that. At least not here in the US. Anyone can create a free account and Hammer A3 pricing (including any promos) is right there on the e-shop site. Yes, Felder quote documents are rather “bloated” IMO but A3’s built for the US market are very straightforward and the pricing is readily available. The only thing that takes any work from the rep’s side is getting the freight cost, then whether or not you want any add-ons like the Alu handwheel/dial indicator or table extensions.

Regarding Phil’s comments about build quality differences, I would respectfully point out that a FS41 Elite is a bigger machine than a Hammer, more in line with the Felder AD7-41. So, not really apples to apples in size or cost. This is a strong reason why I believe every customer should talk to actual rep from whatever company they are looking at before pulling out their wallet. Make sure you know what you’re really getting (or not getting) for your dollar before you pull the trigger.

To the OP, best of luck in your search.

Erik

[Chris Fournier]

I've had two Minimax JP combos with Tersa heads and have never felt that I needed a spiral insert head but wouldn't say no to one either. Minimax owns their own foundry and their castings are larger and heavier built than comparable Hammer or Felder units. The FS 30 had longer tables than the Hammer and I preferred that. I put this little unit through more than it's share of heavy work and it never disappointed. It was less money than the Hammer as well. They're all good machines it just depends on your criteri. Enjoy your new machine!

[Phil Gaudio]

Just to clarify: when I mentioned "the games that Felder played with pricing", I was NOT referring to Erik!:)

[Erik Loza]

Just to clarify: when I mentioned "the games that Felder played with pricing", I was NOT referring to Erik!:)

Hahaha, Phil.... Thanks man!:D

[Nancy Strevelowski]

Make sure you consider the scorpion line from CWI.

i have it and found it to be a better value and feature set for the money.

[Mark Carlson]

I got my A3-31 in 2011. At that time I got it with a Byrd head. This was just before they came out with the newer model with the silent cutterhead and improved fence. The A3-31 has been great. It was perfect off the pallet and I've never made any adjustments. Survived going into storage for a year and a cross country move without issue. My only regret is not getting the bigger one because occasionally I'd like > 12in in planer mode.

[Tony Shea]

For whatever reason finding Rep's for either company is not easy here in Downeast Maine. In terms of service I have no way to determine who will be better which I agree is a huge selling point. I am not aware of how to find representatives for either company but would love to figure it out. As of right now the only actual people I've talked to is Elite Metal Tools and I was slightly bummed out by their service. They are very quick to get a quote out but I ended up calling and asking about mobile bases for the Minimax FS-30. They told me they don't sell any other parts other than the actual Minimax machines and that I'd need to contact Minimax for extras, which would have been fine if they would have pointed me to a contact of some sort. I asked for contact information for Minimax but they could not help with that request. This is what spurred me to look up Hammer and ask for a quote. If anyone has any direct representatives/sales people for either company I would be extremely grateful.

All said and done my budget is $5K for a combo machine which I feel like should be adequate for a good quality machine for a hobbiest woodworker that primarily works with handtools.

Thanks for all the responses and your experiences with your machines.

[Phil Gaudio]

My contact at SCM Minimax was Sam Blasco. He is very knowledgeable about the various machines and was good to deal with when I bought my machine. You might try contacting him. And for info on the Felder/Hammer line: well you've got the man right here in this post: Erik Loza.


For whatever reason finding Rep's for either company is not easy here in Downeast Maine. In terms of service I have no way to determine who will be better which I agree is a huge selling point. I am not aware of how to find representatives for either company but would love to figure it out. As of right now the only actual people I've talked to is Elite Metal Tools and I was slightly bummed out by their service. They are very quick to get a quote out but I ended up calling and asking about mobile bases for the Minimax FS-30. They told me they don't sell any other parts other than the actual Minimax machines and that I'd need to contact Minimax for extras, which would have been fine if they would have pointed me to a contact of some sort. I asked for contact information for Minimax but they could not help with that request. This is what spurred me to look up Hammer and ask for a quote. If anyone has any direct representatives/sales people for either company I would be extremely grateful.

All said and done my budget is $5K for a combo machine which I feel like should be adequate for a good quality machine for a hobbiest woodworker that primarily works with handtools.

Thanks for all the responses and your experiences with your machines.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Bought a Hammer A3-31 about 2 years ago

Contact was David Brooks 1-866-792-5288 ex 208, d.brooks@felder-group.com.

Spoke to him many times to make sure I got what I wanted. No hard pressure sell on the main tool or any of the accessories.

Also dealt with him when I bought a Hammer Shaper about a year ago.

Happy with both machines.

For mobile base, I use a Porta-Mate PM2500 on the A3-31 and a PM3550 on the Shaper.

[Jim Becker]

For whatever reason finding Rep's for either company is not easy here in Downeast Maine. I


Call Sam...

Sam Blasco
Minimax Product Line Manager
sam.blasco@scmgroup.com (sblasco@scmgroup.com)
512-931-1962 (tel:512-931-1962) (shop)
512-796-3036 (tel:512-796-3036) (mobile)
866-216-2166 (main office/parts/tech services)
www.minimax-usa.com (http://www.minimax-usa.com/)

You can also contact Erik privately to get pointers on the Hammer/Felder side.

[Andy D Jones]

I've had the A3-41 for a couple of years and am very happy with it. No issues and the digital gauge works perfectly. I would recommend ordering a short outfeed table to put on the outfeed side of the planer.

I'm waiting for my A3-41 to arrive. It has been delayed by the plant shutdown for Covid. The plant shutdown is over, and my machine is supposed to have reached the US warehouse on or about May 25.

Anyway, Felder has been very good keeping me informed, and I certainly cannot fault them for delays from the pandemic. They have been very good with answering questions, and making sure I had everything I needed after I ordered, and ensured delivery would be "residential delivery with lift gate service."

The extension tables require a separate mounting rail for either the outfeed jointer table location, or the planer outfeed (one for each desired location). A rail is already there on the jointer infeed (it's the same rail that mounts the fence).

They also offer a long extension table, but since it has an adjustable support leg, the longer extension would be less convenient than the short extension on the planer outfeed.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Mike Wilkins]

Very satisfied owner of a Hammer A3-41 with the Silent Cutter head, the spiral unit. The finish is so smooth that I now want to sell my twin roller sanding machine. I got the sander to finish boards after machining them through my old straight knife machine, which left the familiar washboard surface. I would recommend the Hammer in a heartbeat.

[Rod Sheridan]

I've had the A3-41 for a couple of years and am very happy with it. No issues and the digital gauge works perfectly. I would recommend ordering a short outfeed table to put on the outfeed side of the planer.

yes an outfeed extension on the planer is useful due to the feed rate of 6m/minute, keeps short pieces from falling on the floor:D

Regards, Rod.

[Robert London]

I’m in the same situation and been looking at both the last 4-5months. Although I’d get a 16 inch model.

Felder and MM seem to be neck and neck with pricing. The 12 inch Hammer model is usually on sale nearly every month on their E Shop site. The 12 can be had for ~4200 with xylent and the 16 is around ~5400. Plus around 500 for shipping. I do like the beds rising together on the hammer. If I could get by with a 12, I’d probably buy 2 separate machines, so the combo only makes sense in a 16 for me.

I’ve also looked at the Baleigh machine and it seems liked a decent buy at 3500 before they raised it to 4000. Someone also mentioned the Scorpion machine, and I’ve inquired twice about availability and no one bothered to return an email or even call when I left my phone number. I’d like to get a little service when spending 5000 on a machine, so I’ll pass on the scorpion even through it may be decent for the price. The felder people have followed up with me several times.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hammer have a stand alone 16" jointer and planer if you really want separates......Rod.