Can a blade Change - change a saw??

[John C Ritchie]

I have a Bosch GTS1031 job site saw, that is perm. Mounted in my shop for about 5 years. It has scalloped when ripping since day one. I’ve had many blades on it, some scallop more, some less. I have gotten more serious w my work and recently decided to buy the Freud full kerf industrial Rip blade. I ran several pieces, no scalloping. How is this possible?

This blade, btw, has the largest chunks of carbide for teeth, that I’ve ever seen, and I’m absolutely blown away by the difference between it and a borg blade. The Gts1031 spins at 5000 rpm, did it just need a heavier blade to stay in line and not deflect? Am I hallucinating? Any insights appreciated

[Andrew Hughes]

For sure a blade can change the way a saw cuts.

[Richard Coers]

Of course a high quality blade can make a difference. They don't cost more just because of a brand name on them. There is a lot of engineering in a quality saw blade. If all the blades you have been using are borg blades, you've just learned the lesson about what buying quality can do for you.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Absolutely blades can affect the quality of cuts. Depending on the material being cut, thin kerf and thick kerf differences can be enough to cause significant differences. Though my table saw has only a 1 3/4 horse motor, I only use full 1/8" thick kerf blades on it.

[John Makar]

For over a decade I used a Freud Amana blade in my Delta contractor saw. It's a pretty good blade, I got good results. A few months back I decided to upgrade to a Forrest Wood Worker II. First thing I noticed was I had to recut the slot on my zero clearance plates. A digital micrometer revealed the FWW was a true 1/8", the Amana off by a very small smidge. Next I noticed the new slot was smooth. I watched as I recut the slot and it went from a tiny bit jagged to perfectly smooth. Then I noticed that all cuts were perfectly smooth, no rough end-grain. Today I was ripping some Walnut and noticed the saw was running much quieter, so much so I wondered if a screw had come loose or something. The FWW blade is simply much better balanced. With the Amana I could easily balance a nickle on edge. The FWW takes vibration to zero.

I had always thought the Forrest Wood Worker advocates were a bit nuts. I mean, it's just a saw blade. Well... it's a saw blade, but not just just.

[Bradley Gray]

All that and good blades can be re-sharpened.

[Eric Schmid]

I used to run narrow kerf blades on most job site tools thinking that’s all they could handle. Several years back I had a railing job where I needed to split a square post down the middle at an angle to turn a corner on a winder. The post was hickory, around 3.5” square and the angle probably 22.5 degrees.

The thin kerf blade deflected over one degree. Got a brand new full kerf rip blade to make the cut. There was less load on the saw motor due to less deflection. I have not put a thin kerf blade on a job site table saw or miter saw since. Blade selection absolutely matters.

[Bill Dufour]

Adding blade stabilizers can help too. I notice the blade is quieter when unloaded. The highest pitched noise is reduced. It does not sing as much. It is interesting to see that on my 14" tablesaw any washer or stabilizer larger then about 2.5" diameter will reduce cut depth the same as a 10" saw.
Bill D

[John C Ritchie]

This is kinda Where I’m confused- see if a “job site saw” just needs an $80 blade instead of a $40 blade (I wasn’t using Avanti, craftsman, etc, my last blades were Freud Diablo and Dewalt Fine Trim) why am I looking to upgrade to a $1000 cabinet saw that cannot be moved, or more importantly transported should a friend need help w a project? Better dust collection, yes, easier working of hard material, sure, but as of right now I’m ripping 1/4” Birds eye maple strips from a 1”- 4/4 board and they are beautiful. So where are the huge advantages that everyone says stay away from the “dreaded job site saw” and start with at least a contractor saw? All I’m seeing is diminishing returns in the form of a lot more $$ for a little quieter little less messy machine. Im comfortable with the largest pieces of ply I can pickup with the table I built around it, I enjoy ripping strips for inlay/accents, and the saw just works. Yeah it sounds like an anvil being struck on startup but I kinda like it at this point, yeah my router is more precise, but my 1st trip down “Uber quality lane” was an incra had 1000 HD MITER setup, and it cuts perfect angles w no gaps on glue ups, so what AM I getting? Dust collection is important to me (especially as I have bad sinuses) but I can build a box around it, and already made an upper guard...

I’m open to any input, as I plan to buy a better saw eventually... I just wonder if bandsaw or Mini-lathe or spindle sander etc will sneak in before “saw upgrade” if I can get repeatable quality results from my current setup.

[David Buchhauser]

I think if portability is important, and you are getting the cut quality you require for your projects- then stick with what you have now. You can add some dust collection and/or invest in a good respirator and I think you've got it made.
David

[johnny means]

If your not seeing the shortcomings, you probably won't really appreciate the difference. Minor amounts of flex that leave less than perfect seams, end grain that requires substantial sanding to remove saw marks, joinery that seems to always have tiny variations, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I'm currently using a fairly new SCMI slider and I got nothing but complaints, other guys think it's awesome. As you say, you're getting more serious, you'll start seeing it.

[Rob Luter]

I found this to be the case with my Ridgid TS3650. Thin kerf Borg blades offered up a "utility" cut quality. I was at a local sharpening shop that caters to the commercial cabinet shops in the area and bought a couple industrial grade blades. They were used so they were very inexpensive. Huge carbide teeth, ground blade plate, super sharp, balanced, exact 1/8" kerf. My saw is wired for 220V so no drag on the motor at all. It was a good move.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I don’t mean this to be offensive, but ignorance is bliss.

Also, it depends on your expectations from a table saw. I have 3 very different table saws and they all have a purpose and are different enough for me to keep around. One is a newer Dewalt jobsite table saw on a rolling stand that lives in the jobsite and has a sawhorses/plywood outfeed table behind it and had a sub ~ $40 rip blade on it pretty much all the time
and I am generally pleased and happy with what I ask of that saw and expect in terms of accuracy. I can roll it around the job site or pick it up and throw it in the van and set it up literally anywhere with power...that’s worth a great deal to a professional carpenter / on site woodworker. It weighs less than 100 #

I also have an older Powermatic 66 that lives in my shop with large outfeed and side tables, cross cut sleds, dust collection, several different types of blades, 52” Bies rip fence. This saw can handle full sheets of plywood and support them without sweating. I’ve also used this saw extensively for joinery - tenons, grooves, rabbets, dadoes, etc and can handle a decent amount of thick hardwood ripping with the right quality rip blade, though depth of cut is limited to 3” like any 10” cabinet saw. It weighs ~ 500#, is on a mobile base but doesn’t typically ever move unless I have to re-arrange to accept a new machine coming in the door of the shop.

I also have a much older (late 40s era) Tannewitz Model U 16” saw (that can take up to a 20” blade if desired) that is a beautiful chunk of cast iron and steel and is more precise and well machined than Powermatic could ever dream to be. Micro adjust fence, 2 factory miter gauges, several different style and size blades, large cast iron top and plenty of power. The depth of cut (up to 6” with the 20” blade) is very handy for heavy duty ripping, or working with any sort of smaller dimension timber size stuff, which I tend to do on a fairly consistent basis. This is not really a plywood saw as the rip fence maxes out around 24” or so, but for ripping or precise joinery it is amazing. It weighs around 1300# and does not move.

I say all this to bring up the point that it really depends on what you’re doing, how picky you are, to what level of precision you’re working to, and how much / little tolerance you have for working on a machine that maybe wasn’t designed or optimized to do the types of operations you’re asking it to do. I still feel like the only thing holding me back from
a sliding table saw is primarily lack of space in my current shop (and current budget) but even that can be solved eventually.

Id say to continue in bliss as long as you can, until you happen to use a nice cabinet saw enough to notice the differences.

[David Buchhauser]

But what about Johnny? He's got a slider and still unhappy. Perhaps he needs to upgrade to a still better saw?
David

[Dave Sabo]

Might just be me, but I don't think a contractor saw is going to provide better dust collection than a jobsite saw.

Most of them have a totally enclosed blade underneath exiting at a dust port. Few contractor saw's have that. And all are open at the rear.

There are are some good reasons a contractor saw is an upgrade, but dust collection isn't one of them.

[Jim Becker]

In this case, you clearly put a heavier blade on the saw. A heavier, stouter blade is going to be more resistant to flex and other distortions and "should" perform noticeably better than a less expensive, thinner blade. Low powered saws are often equipped with thinner kerf tooling to help make up for the lack of cutting power, but that can also be counter productive when things start to wiggle. I was never a fan of the lighter blades for this reason...I'd rather have to cut slower. So I'm not surprised you saw and improvement using a better blade on your current saw. Since quality blades can last a long time and often can be sharpened more times, when you do get the beefier saw down the road, a good blade or three can follow you to that new machine.

[Rob Luter]

Might just be me, but I don't think a contractor saw is going to provide better dust collection than a jobsite saw.

Most of them have a totally enclosed blade underneath exiting at a dust port. Few contractor saw's have that. And all are open at the rear.

There are are some good reasons a contractor saw is an upgrade, but dust collection isn't one of them.

Amen brother. My TS3650 has a sawdust port sized to fit exactly zero available dust collector or shop vac hose sizes. I'm lost count of how many adapter kits I've purchased in vain. I let it dump on the shop floor and vacuum it up when I'm done.

[Jim Dwight]

I used "lesser" table saws for at least 40 years before buying PCS1.75. I made a lot of furniture for myself and my kids with them. The last one was a Ryobi BT3100. It had a universal motor but was belt driven. I think it handled regular kerf blades better than my PCS. The PCS does OK with a full kerf cutting wood up to about 2 inches. But I had a VERY difficult time ripping legs for a bunk bed built of softwood with full kerf ripping blades. A freud 24 tooth did noticably better than a new Infinity blade but both required a really slow feed rate. Then I put a thin kerf blade on and it was almost night and day difference. Regular feed rate worked fine. The legs finished out at 2 3/4 square.

I think using a regular kerf blade for most cutting may work well for you but you might still need a thin kerf around for really deep cuts. Right now I am trying to go the other way and find a good thin kerf. I have a Freud 'fusion' on at the moment. There was one piece of softwood it produced a really rough cut on. But recently I ripped a piece of 1 inch thick oak and the cut was super smooth. So the jury is still out. I have a 50 tooth Freud thin kerf waiting in the wings.

I really like Freud "industrial" blades and may just discontinue buying others. I will definitely not buy another Infinity. Their 50 tooth burns worse than any other blade I have used and the 24 tooth requires more power than my saw has. I might love a Forest if I ever bought one but if I get all I need out of ~$50 Freuds I see no reason to go there.

[Scott Bernstein]

I used a Bosch jobsite saw for my first few projects when I started woodworking. I had it built in to a nice large tablesaw workstation, which made the effective surface of the top much larger. It was "good enough" at that time, and I learned a lot using that saw. It was inexpensive, didn't take up a lot of space, and not intimidating. Dust collection, while present, was not great even with a powerful shop vac. I did not anticipate getting some huge cabinet saw...at first. But as my projects got larger and more sophisticated, with thicker lumber especially, I outgrew it. The imperfect miter saw caused issues. It was not compatible with a full dado stack. It was very loud, and I frequently overloaded the motor, even with multiple passes in thick pieces. Now I do have one of those large cabinet saws - and I have no idea how I ever got by with a jobsite saw...

[John C Ritchie]

I don’t mean this to be offensive, but ignorance is bliss.

Also, it depends on your expectations from a table saw. I have 3 very different table saws and they all have a purpose and are different enough for me to keep around. One is a newer Dewalt jobsite table saw on a rolling stand that lives in the jobsite and has a sawhorses/plywood outfeed table behind it and had a sub ~ $40 rip blade on it pretty much all the time
and I am generally pleased and happy with what I ask of that saw and expect in terms of accuracy. I can roll it around the job site or pick it up and throw it in the van and set it up literally anywhere with power...that’s worth a great deal to a professional carpenter / on site woodworker. It weighs less than 100 #

I also have an older Powermatic 66 that lives in my shop with large outfeed and side tables, cross cut sleds, dust collection, several different types of blades, 52” Bies rip fence. This saw can handle full sheets of plywood and support them without sweating. I’ve also used this saw extensively for joinery - tenons, grooves, rabbets, dadoes, etc and can handle a decent amount of thick hardwood ripping with the right quality rip blade, though depth of cut is limited to 3” like any 10” cabinet saw. It weighs ~ 500#, is on a mobile base but doesn’t typically ever move unless I have to re-arrange to accept a new machine coming in the door of the shop.

I also have a much older (late 40s era) Tannewitz Model U 16” saw (that can take up to a 20” blade if desired) that is a beautiful chunk of cast iron and steel and is more precise and well machined than Powermatic could ever dream to be. Micro adjust fence, 2 factory miter gauges, several different style and size blades, large cast iron top and plenty of power. The depth of cut (up to 6” with the 20” blade) is very handy for heavy duty ripping, or working with any sort of smaller dimension timber size stuff, which I tend to do on a fairly consistent basis. This is not really a plywood saw as the rip fence maxes out around 24” or so, but for ripping or precise joinery it is amazing. It weighs around 1300# and does not move.

I say all this to bring up the point that it really depends on what you’re doing, how picky you are, to what level of precision you’re working to, and how much / little tolerance you have for working on a machine that maybe wasn’t designed or optimized to do the types of operations you’re asking it to do. I still feel like the only thing holding me back from
a sliding table saw is primarily lack of space in my current shop (and current budget) but even that can be solved eventually.

Id say to continue in bliss as long as you can, until you happen to use a nice cabinet saw enough to notice the differences.

No offense taken at ALL. All of the replies have been great.This is actually exactly what I was looking for as far as information on the subject. Especially this in depth 3 saw analysis. Thank you, I am not offended, while at the same time not apathetic enough to be content (a precursor of bliss) so I “gotsta know!!!” I feel like I do now. Thx

[John C Ritchie]

I used a Bosch jobsite saw for my first few projects when I started woodworking. I had it built in to a nice large tablesaw workstation, which made the effective surface of the top much larger. It was "good enough" at that time, and I learned a lot using that saw. It was inexpensive, didn't take up a lot of space, and not intimidating. Dust collection, while present, was not great even with a powerful shop vac. I did not anticipate getting some huge cabinet saw...at first. But as my projects got larger and more sophisticated, with thicker lumber especially, I outgrew it. The imperfect miter saw caused issues. It was not compatible with a full dado stack. It was very loud, and I frequently overloaded the motor, even with multiple passes in thick pieces. Now I do have one of those large cabinet saws - and I have no idea how I ever got by with a jobsite saw...

Thank you for your notes on the matter. I can’t run mine on a 15amp breaker but it has handled everything I’ve thrown at it as long as its on a 20 amp tap. The thing is equally powerful/loud but I use hearing protection almost always because my dust collector annoys me - I’m sure I’ll feel the same way once I get a shot at making a project on a “real saw” so I’ll just avoid anyone with a unisaw or better until I can afford said saws