New dovetail saw recommendations

[Thomas Crawford]

Let me just state I have a Veritas dovetail saw. It works fine. I just want a new one and don't want to be on a 1 year waiting list. I like supporting small tool makers and getting a new tool. Win-Win.

Let's say budget ~$250. Looking at the Bad Axe version with 3-4 month wait.

Any other saw makers out there I should look at?

[Bill Carey]

I got the Bad Axe hybrid 12" saw and love it. I too have a Veritas, which is a fine saw, but the Bad Axe is so much more pleasurable to use. Balance, starting the cut, construction of the saw - all far superior IMHO. It's expensive, but worth it. I'm looking at the 16" tenon saw next.

[Jim Koepke]

Any other saw makers out there I should look at?

My suggestion was going to be Ron Bontz Saw Works but he seems to also be backlogged up to a year.

My solution to keeping the cost down was to purchase a kit. It is now a fine dovetail saw > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?249983 <

You may want to keep an eye on ebay or post a WTB ad in the SMC Classifieds.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I have the Veritas and the Lie Nielsen. I like the Lie Nielsen. It's heavier and just moves through the wood with more authority for me. Have not tried the others, but IMHO, the LN is a right bit better than the V at about $100 less than your budget max. I'm not suggesting it compares to the saws above; only stating my opinion vs the Veritas (I have both the 14 and 20 tpis)

[Thomas Crawford]

Yes I should have ordered a Bontz a few years back. I might try to get small tenon saw from him sometime in the future.

I have the Wenzloff small carcase and Large Tenon saws and I like them a lot.

Other option is http://www.vintagesaws.com/catalog/ NE Plus Ultra from Pete T.

[Tim Best]

Florip Tool Works in Michigan may meet all of your criteria and then some.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Rob Cosman?

[David Dalzell]

I have the two Veritas dovetail saws and the Grammercy tools 9" dovetail saws. I use all of them, but I definitely like the Grammercy Tools saw the best. It just feels good and cuts true. However I must say that the Veritas saws provide a much smoother finish cut.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Florip Tool Works in Michigan may meet all of your criteria and then some.

Except the wait list. Not a year, but a quarter (at least).

[Derek Cohen]

Let me just state I have a Veritas dovetail saw. It works fine. I just want a new one and don't want to be on a 1 year waiting list. I like supporting small tool makers and getting a new tool. Win-Win.

Let's say budget ~$250. Looking at the Bad Axe version with 3-4 month wait.

Any other saw makers out there I should look at?

Thomas, ideally you want to try the saws out to decide if they are comfortable in the hand and cut the way you like.

The teeth of the Veritas are distinctive for having a 14 degree rake. This makes the saw cut less aggressively, but smoothly. Most other dovetail saws are filed more aggressively, with rake around the 5-6 degree range, and I recall my LN came with zero degree rake. This makes the LN very fast cutting but more tricky to start. The Veritas is a terrific saw to begin with, and may be better suited to thinner boards. I prefer using the LN. partly because it is better for very hard woods, and I have had enough years to learn to use a light touch when starting a cut. I like the LN. Compared with saws below, it has a thicker handle, and will suit a larger hand.

These comments are simply to illustrate that there will be differences among saws out if the box. In reality, if you sharpen you own saws, after a couple of years, what you are left with is a handle and saw plate. The teeth may or may not be the same rake, but what remains is the way the saw feels in the hand. Having said this, one should not be afraid to modify a handle - for example, on many I have found the bump on the grip to be too high, and take it down.

Some if the very best handles were made by Wenzloff. One of my go-to saws is an IT, which is the fore runner if LN. It has a slimmer handle compared with the LN. It requires a lighter touch. Today these original maker if these saws has started making saws again - Pete Taran. Consider him the father of the modern dovetail saw. The other saw I would look at is the Gramercy. Another go-to for me. It is a more advanced design with a higher aspect angle and also a thin handle that demands a light touch. These are saws for more advanced dovetailers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[justin sherriff]

Florip Tool Works in Michigan may meet all of your criteria and then some.
+1 on Florip Tool works

[Mike Henderson]

I like the Lie Nielsen dovetail saw.

Mike

[Rob Luter]

I like the Lie Nielsen dovetail saw.

Mike

I like mine too.

[steven c newman]

Hmmmm..I size my saws to the work being done....
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So, IF the wood is 3/16" thick...YMMV

( need to take the No. 68 out to be sharpened...)
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What I use for 3/4" stock.....Disston No.4, 9ppi, 14" long, filed rip.
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And, the 68 that needs sharpened....

[Jim Matthews]

Connor Raub makes decent saws.

[Ron Bontz]

The Grammercy mentioned has a hang angle of approx. 45*, The Lie Nielsen approx. 40*, Bad Axe approx. 30* The higher the hang angle the more aggressive the saw will be, given the same pitch, rake and fleam ( Fleam should be 0 ). Mine are 45*, 38*, and 32*. Depends on what mood I am in. :) The vintage saws vary quite a bit as well. If you get the opportunity, try different saws to get a better feel for what works for you. Happy hunting.

[Thomas Crawford]

Well I ended up getting an NE plus ultra from Pete Taran. Looking forward to giving it a spin in the near future. I'll post back with some pics.

[Thomas Crawford]

Thanks Derek - I aspire to be an advanced dovetailer so hopefully I'll grow into it! I've been focused on the "light touch" in my sawing lately.



Thomas, ideally you want to try the saws out to decide if they are comfortable in the hand and cut the way you like.

The teeth of the Veritas are distinctive for having a 14 degree rake. This makes the saw cut less aggressively, but smoothly. Most other dovetail saws are filed more aggressively, with rake around the 5-6 degree range, and I recall my LN came with zero degree rake. This makes the LN very fast cutting but more tricky to start. The Veritas is a terrific saw to begin with, and may be better suited to thinner boards. I prefer using the LN. partly because it is better for very hard woods, and I have had enough years to learn to use a light touch when starting a cut. I like the LN. Compared with saws below, it has a thicker handle, and will suit a larger hand.

These comments are simply to illustrate that there will be differences among saws out if the box. In reality, if you sharpen you own saws, after a couple of years, what you are left with is a handle and saw plate. The teeth may or may not be the same rake, but what remains is the way the saw feels in the hand. Having said this, one should not be afraid to modify a handle - for example, on many I have found the bump on the grip to be too high, and take it down.

Some if the very best handles were made by Wenzloff. One of my go-to saws is an IT, which is the fore runner if LN. It has a slimmer handle compared with the LN. It requires a lighter touch. Today these original maker if these saws has started making saws again - Pete Taran. Consider him the father of the modern dovetail saw. The other saw I would look at is the Gramercy. Another go-to for me. It is a more advanced design with a higher aspect angle and also a thin handle that demands a light touch. These are saws for more advanced dovetailers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Well I ended up getting an NE plus ultra from Pete Taran. Looking forward to giving it a spin in the near future. I'll post back with some pics.

Surely it isn't just me looking forward to seeing some images of your new saw when you give it a test drive.

jtk

[Phil Gaudio]

Thomas: Excellent choice. I am quite happy with my NE Plus Ultra and I would be very surprised if you were not equally impressed. Phil


Well I ended up getting an NE plus ultra from Pete Taran. Looking forward to giving it a spin in the near future. I'll post back with some pics.

[steven c newman]

Just dropped 2 of my dovetail saws off at the sharpening service...will have them back home in about a week...

[Rob Luter]

Hmmmm..I size my saws to the work being done....
434041
So, IF the wood is 3/16" thick...YMMV

( need to take the No. 68 out to be sharpened...)
434042
What I use for 3/4" stock.....Disston No.4, 9ppi, 14" long, filed rip.
434043
And, the 68 that needs sharpened....

Good point Steven. I was doing some small Dovetails on 1/4" Alder this past weekend and even with the wood doubled up the LN Dovetail was too much saw. I switched to a Gents style razor saw and it worked so much better.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Lee Valley saws are probably the best value and I love mine.

My Bad Axe saw is the easiest to start in a cut, so it is probably not the fastest to cut.

Ron Botz makes great saws. Just saying.

Lie Nielsen was my first dovetail saw; great saw.

If possible, try them in your hand to see how they feel, it really makes a huge difference.

[steven c newman]

Just dropped of both my Disston No. 4 and the Disston No. 68 at the Sharpening Service, today. Will get them back home in about a week.....normal charge is around $10....

[Thomas Crawford]

I'm starting to collect other saws that need sharpening, I really need to dig in and get decent at it myself. I sharpened one for my Stanley 150 mitre box and it cuts well but could be better. I think I'm missing how to really set the rake, staying with a consistent fleam wasn't as hard.

[Jim Koepke]

The rake is set by how the file is held. Visit vintagesaws.com and read the primer on saw sharpening in the library section. It shows how to make a block for the far end of the file to help in holding it consistently while filing the teeth.

jtk

[Thomas Crawford]

Realized I never circled back here.

The saw is fantastic, I'm super-pleased I got it. Its gorgeous and cuts straight and easy with the light touch. Dovetailed some drawers for a couple desks and have zero complaints. Looking forward to using this for a long time.

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[Andrew Pitonyak]

I really like the handle... not surprised it cuts well :-)

[Bob Jones 5443]

Thomas, looks like you have a tool you love. Shedua handle? Congratulations! You went a bit above your budget, but at least you got one. They are all sold out as of today.

[Clifford McGuire]

That looks like an IT dovetail saw. (Taran's original). I have one of the first ones and I treasure it (and still use it everyday).

You made a good choice!

[Pete Taran]

It's still a Taran original! We have a hard time keeping up with orders. Glad you love it Thomas, I took a gamble on that Shedua, but I love the way it looks.

Happy Sawing!