Restoring Flood Damaged Equipment

[Dave Bunge]

You may have heard of the historic floods caused by the failure of two dams upstream of Midland, MI.

I have a friend whose basement shop was completely flooded, with water level reaching 1 ft from the ceiling. All major equipment - table saw, planer, drill press, etc - was completely submerged.

I'd appreciate any advice people can give on restoring the equipment, repairing the damage caused to motors, electronics, cast iron surfaces and so on. There is plenty of elbow grease available to help with the fixing.

Dave

[Jim Becker]

This is going to be a really hard task. If his insurance will replace, that's where I'd go first. But if restoration is necessary...drying everything out thoroughly is critical and disassembly may be required to be able to do that most efficiently as there will be a lot of surfaces that were not "protected" by paint. Flood waters also bring a lot of debris and that may be even harder to extract. Electrics may or may not need to be completely replaced.

[Frank Pratt]

I've been down that road. All bearings will need to be replaced. Even sealed bearings will have trace amounts of water, which will ruin them. Electric switches & contactors must be replaced. They have components in them that will corrode & insulating materials that will take on water & become misshapen. When motors are apart for new bearings, the windings should be baked to remove traces of moisture that can take weeks or months to, or may never, dry out completely.

All the wiring in the basement, including the breaker panel and circuit breakers must also be replaced.

So, here's to hoping he has good insurance.

[George Yetka]

Ideally insurance pays out and includes some moving fees. Perhaps 1 machine may be a fun project but replacement would definitely be the way to go

[Bill Dufour]

Any paperwork can be frozen and then slowly freeze dried. Motors etc can be refrigerated as close to freezing as possible to slow corrosion and rot until they can be taken apart and baked dry. Freezing them risks ice breaking stuff inside. I agree replace bearings. This is one of the few times I recommend wd40. Wash everything with distilled water as soon as possible. First rinse with garden hose to get most of the crud off.
Not really needed for home shop motors but big generators can be sealed up with electric heaters under a vacuum. This is what my neighbor did for some flooded power stations. Took 6 months to a year of drying. Would have taken longer to get them built to order. Once electric stuff is dried use a megger on it all to see if it really dried out.

[Alex Zeller]

it would be a fun project but for an entire shop, the amount of time needed would take too long. Hopefully (like other said) insurance will cover it. I'm not sure if a dam bursting would be "flooding" as normal insurance will not cover flood damage. Most people don't have flood insurance. In this case it'll most likely be money from the state to cover it while a court determines who's at fault.

Doing one piece at a time could take weeks if you have plenty of time or months. With rebuilding a house I just can't see how anyone could do every tool in their shop. Even storing the tools while the house is being repaired (since it was a basement shop) would make working on them extremely hard. The best thing to do would be to sell them. Document them so you have proof including receipts. If you have time you might try to help him out by repairing one or two of his favorites.

[Patrick Kane]

Most motor shops have ovens to bake motor windings. Like everyone else said, replace the switches and replace the bearings.This is all crap work, i feel sorry for your friend.

[Dave Bunge]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've passed this along to my friend.

[richard poitras]

Good luck Dave if the club member needs some help let me know.

Richard

[Mike Wilkins]

Spent 25 years in insurance claims, so I know what flood waters can do. If your coverage allows, replace the machines that run off electricity. Flood water contains silt and debris that will shorten the life of any moving parts, such as bearings and motors, any sliding parts, etc. If your machines are of the 'old iron' variety, they will be worth a rebuild, since they are built to last.
I had a storage building that got a roof leak, and several router bits had rusted and corroded shafts, so even pure rain water can cause problems.

[Richard Coers]

Spent 25 years in insurance claims, so I know what flood waters can do. If your coverage allows, replace the machines that run off electricity. Flood water contains silt and debris that will shorten the life of any moving parts, such as bearings and motors, any sliding parts, etc. If your machines are of the 'old iron' variety, they will be worth a rebuild, since they are built to last.
I had a storage building that got a roof leak, and several router bits had rusted and corroded shafts, so even pure rain water can cause problems.
Silt and debris are nice terms for raw human sewage, animal waste, gasoline from car fuel tanks, and motor oil. I'd consider the health impact of digging all that out of the nooks and crannies.

[Brian Bumpers]

If his "basement" is really a basement in the eyes of the insurance company, unless he has private flood insurance there will likely be no coverage for his tools. If his basement is a "walk out" basement he may be covered. There is a very specific definition of basement along with extreme coverage limitations in the insurance world. If all sides are below grade, 4", 4' or all the way does not matter then its a basement.

[Dave Bunge]

Unfortunately, none of the damage in this case is covered by insurance.

Good point to be cautious about heath risks from untreated sewage in the basement. I think (hope) that risk would be low in this case...flooding was over land, not sewer backup. The river was high from torrential rains, then a large surge came when a dam failed and Wixom lake released something like 20 billion gallons of presumably clean water over the course of an hour or so.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Unless he has flood insurance, most likely, he is SOL. Most policies (varies by state) don't cover rising waters, even if it comes back up via sewer lines. .

[Doug Dawson]

Unfortunately, none of the damage in this case is covered by insurance.

Good point to be cautious about heath risks from untreated sewage in the basement. I think (hope) that risk would be low in this case...flooding was over land, not sewer backup. The river was high from torrential rains, then a large surge came when a dam failed and Wixom lake released something like 20 billion gallons of presumably clean water over the course of an hour or so.

Wow. So whole towns and cities will have to be abandoned because of this. Welcome to the future, sadly.

[Alex Zeller]

In this case I think the state is going to have to pony up. It could take some time but there's lots of actors in this that didn't do the right thing. The company that owned the dam is most likely not going to be able to afford the damage. But from what I understand the company was sued by the state when they lowered the water level to mitigate the risk and were forced to raise it back up. Usually when something is declared a federal disaster there's money available. Hopefully it works out for him.

[Jim Becker]

Wow. So whole towns and cities will have to be abandoned because of this. Welcome to the future, sadly.

It's pretty much always been this way. Read your homeowner's policy...it's very likely that there's specific language that precludes flood damage. This is why folks who have homes within the 100 year flood pattern have to cover separate flood insurance to get loans. In the case of a major flood like this, Federal and State disaster relief helps to cover the cost of rebuilding and loss for businesses and homeowners. There may be other factors in this particular situation because the flood is the result of dam failures.

[Richard Coers]

It's pretty much always been this way. Read your homeowner's policy...it's very likely that there's specific language that precludes flood damage. This is why folks who have homes within the 100 year flood pattern have to cover separate flood insurance to get loans. In the case of a major flood like this, Federal and State disaster relief helps to cover the cost of rebuilding and loss for businesses and homeowners. There may be other factors in this particular situation because the flood is the result of dam failures.
Dams owned by a for profit corporation. This could take a decade before any cash flows.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

I was watching James Hamilton’s YouTube blog yesterday about the dam breaking and the resulting issues.
He said the dams were privately owned, and were unprofitable anyway, therefore no prospect of rebuilding. My assessment is that the dam owner’s insurance company could be on the hook, but you know insurance companies.

[Alex Zeller]

Not that I want to turn this into a debate over the dam but in 2018 the state took over oversight of the dam when the operator lost their federal license to generate electricity for not adding an additional 4 spill ways (they wanted to add only 2). The state then sued the dam owner for lowering the water level saying that millions of fresh water mussels were killed. After loosing the private company was forced to return the level back to it's original unsafe level. With the amount of money lost something would have to pass in congress to proved federal relief money for those who suffered a loss. I have no clue what insurance the private company had but they will most likely realize it's going to reach the max and counter sue the state. Meanwhile the company is most likely going to file for bankruptcy. I'm not sure even if Michigan has the funds to cover this.

[Dave Bunge]

Folks, I'd prefer that this post didn't turn into a discussion of the politics surrounding the situation. I would be happy to hear more suggestions for restoring flood damaged equipment though.

Thanks,
Davre

[Dave Bunge]

Any advice on removing rust? I found a thread from 10 years ago https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?151734-Favorite-way-to-remove-rust/page4

Soaking or scrubbing with Bar Keepers Friend or Evaporust seemed to be pretty popular. Is there anything new on the scene since then?

[Bill Dufour]

Evaporust is mostly EDTA in water. EDTA in water soaking will chelate rust pretty well. Evaporust has stuff in it to keep the PH at the best levels but EDTA is cheap. It will neutralize about one pound of rust for one pound of EDTA. I just make a glacial solurion and soak stuff in it. Best to fully submerge the stuff for there is risk of etching water lines. I buy my EDTA from ebay as a powder.
It is safe enough that people eat it to clean out there system?
Bil lD

I think this is evaporust:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20040102344

[Frank Pratt]

Any advice on removing rust? I found a thread from 10 years ago https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?151734-Favorite-way-to-remove-rust/page4

Soaking or scrubbing with Bar Keepers Friend or Evaporust seemed to be pretty popular. Is there anything new on the scene since then?

Search YouTube for rust removers. There's tons of content on comparing rust removal methods.

[Richard Coers]

Any advice on removing rust? I found a thread from 10 years ago https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?151734-Favorite-way-to-remove-rust/page4

Soaking or scrubbing with Bar Keepers Friend or Evaporust seemed to be pretty popular. Is there anything new on the scene since then?


For removing rust off tables, I prefer to start with a single edge razor blade in a scraper handle. Does a great job getting off the thick stuff and your choice after that.

[Carroll Courtney]

Guessing he is having to focus on his basement and getting it back into shape before he has power turned back on? But to the machines I would start by drying and coating the cast iron surface,pull the motors then take the plate off where wires are and rotate them to drain out the water. If possible if he could put them in room that is dry with a humidifier sure would be big help in getting them dry. But flash rust is for certain.

[Alex Zeller]

If the rust is pretty heavy I would use a 4 1/2" grinder with a wire cup wheel. Wear eye protection and a mask. It'll remove most of the rust quickly but it will be dusty so do it outside. For the final step on the flat surfaces I like to use a little oil and some silicon carbide snadpaper with a block. Like sanding wood just keep going up to finer grits until it looks as smooth as you would like.