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Andrew Pitonyak
05-23-2020, 10:23 PM
Last year, I had a sidewalk that had sunk a bit. I do not remember the numbers, but it was similar to 1/8" on one side and say 3/4" on the other, perhaps a bit less. The city told me to fix it so I purchased Quikrete Concrete Resurfacer . It was not cheap (over $20 for 40 pounds), but I only needed 3 bags. Loved it.
https://www.quikrete.com/productlines/concreteresurfacer.asp


There is a dip in my sidewalk, it has always been there. The problem is that water accumulates there and in the winter I get an ice patch. I want to raise the sidewalk, figured I would do the same thing. The dip is not because the side walk sunk, it is because that is how it was laid (I think). Been that way for the 16 years (or more) that I have been here.

Call it 10 foot long, 48" wide, and the center is down 2.5" I figure that I need roughly 15 bags (600 pounds). OK, perhaps it is between 12 and 15...

I started looking at my local home depot and lowes (have not looked at minards). They now carry Quikrete Re-Cap concrete Resurfacer for about $27 a bag.
https://www.quikrete.com/productlines/recapresurfacer.asp

I read in a review that this was more difficult to work with in that it is very finicky compared to the concrete resurfacer. I did not pursue that since it looked like Sakrete has a similar product (takes longer to cure) that would save me a bunch of money.


I keep seeing Sakrete Top'N Bond Concrete Patcher, which is listing at $17 for 40 pounds with about the same coverage. This would save $150 (plus tax)
https://www.sakrete.com/products/top-n-bond-concrete-patcher

Problem is that Lowes near me stopped carrying it. I might be able to drive 50 miles to get some (ouch).

I was looking at these specific products because if I break this out, then I need to figure out how to get rid of the concrete, and it will take a lot more concrete to break out the existing and then build it up so that it does not have that dip. I will have rather thin layers near each end....

Any suggestions?

Oh, while talking about concrete...

I need to cut out the main floor drain in my basement and replace it. OK, use a diamond blade and cut around it, then see how far in I need to go before I get something that I can connect to; will be no more than 3 feet unless the elbow in the cast pipe is broken then I would need to replace a section of that pipe. The main pipe is known to be at least mostly good because it looks just fine when we shoved a camera down the main line. No clean-out on the existing floor drain so no idea what that looks like from it to the main drain a few feet (less than 3) away.

Never done anything like this, but, what kind of concrete would I use to patch up that hole after I poured in my gravel around my new line?

Steve Fish
05-24-2020, 7:04 AM
Have you thought about capping the sidewalk with natural stone? Regular sacks of crete should be fine for the basement slab repair. Try and expose some of the original wire mat that’s in there and tie in a repair piece before you pour in the new concrete.
Cold joints will almost always want to separate. Wash all the dust and small ruble off the old side really well and maybe look at some of the bonding agents. Don’t be surprised if you have to go back with a crack repair in a month or two.

roger wiegand
05-24-2020, 7:46 AM
It might well be cheaper and will certainly have a better outcome to take out the offending piece of sidewalk, fix the base that's allowing it to sink, and replace. A couple yards of readymix should be less than half of your $600 (but I haven't priced concrete recently!) We have a concrete recycling facility close by, getting rid of the old was pretty cheap last time I needed to do it.

Regular masonry supply places are generally better stocked and often have as good/better prices than the Borgs.

Jerome Stanek
05-24-2020, 8:06 AM
You would need 1/2 yard of concrete at 4 inch thick most contractors use a 2x4 for forms so you would need about 14 bags to replace that section so you would need 13.5 cubic feet of concrete. Lowes carries it in 80 pound bags for $4.80 a bag

Andrew Pitonyak
05-24-2020, 10:57 AM
Have you thought about capping the sidewalk with natural stone?

This is two blocks in the front of the house so it would be really strange to just do two.... and then I would need to tie it in to the blocks before and after.


Regular sacks of crete should be fine for the basement slab repair.

Excellent


Try and expose some of the original wire mat that’s in there and tie in a repair piece before you pour in the new concrete.
Cold joints will almost always want to separate. Wash all the dust and small ruble off the old side really well and maybe look at some of the bonding agents. Don’t be surprised if you have to go back with a crack repair in a month or two.

I planned on using resurfacer so that I would need to tie in and that it would adhere. That is the only reason that I could think of to use the resurfacer. If I knew more about concrete, I might be able to user resurfacer for the bottom layer and then regular concrete on top of that, but I do not really want to experiment in that way if it is not clearly spelled out for me.

Andrew Pitonyak
05-24-2020, 11:03 AM
It might well be cheaper and will certainly have a better outcome to take out the offending piece of sidewalk, fix the base that's allowing it to sink, and replace. A couple yards of readymix should be less than half of your $600 (but I haven't priced concrete recently!) We have a concrete recycling facility close by, getting rid of the old was pretty cheap last time I needed to do it.

Regular masonry supply places are generally better stocked and often have as good/better prices than the Borgs.

My biggest problem is that if I rip out the entire thing (for two blocks) then I need to have a way to break the existing blocks (rent a jack hammer) and hall away the broken out concrete (rent a truck or pay someone). In other words, the price starts going up very fast because I lack the tools to do it.

Off hand, there is nothing wrong with the existing concrete, it is just that there was a dip in the grade and they followed it. Unfortunately, there is a slope down to the sidewalk (small one, but still a slope) and all the water accumulates on / between these two blocks. The fact that they would pour it that way defies me a little bit.

I was not aware that a "regular masonry supply" might exist. I will see if I can figure out how to find one.

Stan Calow
05-24-2020, 11:09 AM
My experience in patching concrete is that it is difficult to get more than a temporary bond between new and old concrete. There's a liquid concrete bonding additive I've used to prime the old surface and mix into the new concrete that helps, but only in patching small areas. In a wet area, the freeze/thaw will win.

Andrew Pitonyak
05-24-2020, 11:19 AM
My experience in patching concrete is that it is difficult to get more than a temporary bond between new and old concrete. There's a liquid concrete bonding additive I've used to prime the old surface and mix into the new concrete that helps, but only in patching small areas. In a wet area, the freeze/thaw will win.

Did you use a resurfacing concrete, or just the bond agent? I have a bond agent, but I did not use it since I was told at the time that the product I was using already had it in there.

Bad news for me if I cannot. My test application on my driveway has held well in a high traffic area, as has the other sidewalk block that I did, but it has only been a year and we had a mild winter.

Stan Calow
05-24-2020, 12:32 PM
Did you use a resurfacing concrete, or just the bond agent? I have a bond agent, but I did not use it since I was told at the time that the product I was using already had it in there.


I patched with both kinds - a topping mix, and some regular concrete when I ran out of the topping mix. But as i said, this was patching small areas (less than 1SF) not a whole slab section.

Kev Williams
05-24-2020, 12:41 PM
repair area per OP: 10' long x 4' wide x .25' (3") deep = 10 cubic feet

An 80# bag of Quikcrete nets .6 cubic feet of cured concrete,
a 60# bag nets .45 cubic feet,
a 50# bag nets .375 cubic feet...

10cf needed/ 80# bag = 16.66 bags, 60# bag = 22.22 bags, 50# bag = 26.66 bags

Not sure the best product to use, but for ref, an 80# bag of Quikcrete Concrete mix at my Lowes, $4.25 each--

As to getting new to adhere to old, you might consider coal tar epoxy. While I've never done this myself, I've found while researching the stuff to use on my steel-hulled houseboat, that many people use it to fill and repair spalling concrete; before fully cured, you brush portland cement over it, and once more when dried, ends up close to the color of concrete. (works on asphalt drives too)

As a 'primer' for additional concrete, applying a gallon of coal tar epoxy to the original sidewalk and embedding some rebar into it will give the new concrete something grab..

Andrew Pitonyak
05-24-2020, 1:06 PM
repair area per OP: 10' long x 4' wide x .25' (3") deep = 10 cubic feet

An 80# bag of Quikcrete nets .6 cubic feet of cured concrete,
a 60# bag nets .45 cubic feet,
a 50# bag nets .375 cubic feet...

10cf needed/ 80# bag = 16.66 bags, 60# bag = 22.22 bags, 50# bag = 26.66 bags

Not sure the best product to use, but for ref, an 80# bag of Quikcrete Concrete mix at my Lowes, $4.25 each--

On each end the depth is zero (since everything lines up) and in the middle it is about 2.5"

So the math is more like (for inches) 110 * 2.5 * 48 / 2 because the area of a triangle is 1/2 base times height. So this works out to about 3.8 cubit feet if I only top coat. For a 40lb bag, I assumed about 1/3 cubic feet so about 12.73 bags (call it 13). I was going to buy 15 since I am paranoid.

If I rip it out and start fresh, then it is more like 4 or 5 inches so over 15 cubit feet or 26 80lb bags. That is still only about $130, but I anticipated that the cost of renting the extra equipment would take me over. Also not sure what the minimal amount of concrete I can have a truck deliver since it would be a lot faster to just have the truck pull up and then fill the forms. It is right next to the road so they could probably just pull up and be done with it. Last time I had a pour, they cleaned the truck out onto my lawn and I ended up removing concrete from my lawn, that was a lot of work. I was not there when it was done since I did not do the work, but I was surprised by it.

Kev Williams
05-24-2020, 1:16 PM
The dimensions of course are up to you to figure out, I wasn't taking the 'triangle' into consideration ;)

-There are places that mix up a cubic yard of concrete which is put into a towable hopper that you tow home, then pour into a wheelbarrow to use as needed. I'm not sure if they can make up 'special' small batches or not-?

Another option is to buy the cheap cement mixer from HF- they work, and a good deal for $170, especially if you have other cement projects- or rent one for a day. I can't imagine hoeing 26 bags of concrete by hand... ;)

Darcy Warner
05-24-2020, 1:27 PM
Have it mudd jacked.

Andrew Pitonyak
05-24-2020, 2:09 PM
Have it mudd jacked.

Makes too much sense.... I will look into it. At the expected price point, no reason to not check it out. sounds like an ideal way to fix it. I am embarrassed I did not think about it.

Ron Selzer
05-24-2020, 5:43 PM
Columbus Coal and Lime is fantastic to work with for supplies, looks like they have been bought out
http://www.columbuscoal.com/
have heard good things about Hamilton Parker, have not dealt with them
https://www.hamiltonparker.com/
Columbus Builders Supply is a good choice also
http://www.columbusbuilders.net/
good luck
ron

Andrew Pitonyak
05-24-2020, 6:23 PM
Columbus Coal and Lime is fantastic to work with for supplies, looks like they have been bought out
http://www.columbuscoal.com/
have heard good things about Hamilton Parker, have not dealt with them
https://www.hamiltonparker.com/
Columbus Builders Supply is a good choice also
http://www.columbusbuilders.net/
good luck
ron

This is gold, thanks....

Brian Tymchak
05-24-2020, 7:27 PM
Makes too much sense.... I will look into it. At the expected price point, no reason to not check it out. sounds like an ideal way to fix it. I am embarrassed I did not think about it.

I have a neighbor that had 40 sections of sidewalk leveled last Fall. I had that company do a quickie estimate for my sidewalk. Unfortunately I am not finding that estimate at the moment, but I think it was about $69 a section.

Bill Dufour
05-24-2020, 8:49 PM
Lowes will deliver for free on orders over $35 or so. I would think you can special order your patching mix from the national web site.
Good luck, i can not get lowes or hd websites to work for me. They do not allow me to set a local store so I can not get prices or inventories. Since I have no location it does not allow me to limit the search by say brand. I have to use google and get a sku number to search.
Thi is better then it was a year ago when they said there was no store within 100 miles of me. At least they now know the stores near me. I just can not request to look at those stores.
Bil lD

Thomas McCurnin
05-27-2020, 1:23 PM
I wouldn't over-think this. An hour with a 20# sledge and gloves and the offending piece is in a dumpster in pieces. Make sure you use a masonry blade on a skill saw to frame the bad piece. Rent an electric demo hammer, the big one--it rents for $100 for two days at Home Despot.

Then call in the ready mix truck with 1500 psi mix. You really don't want it harder than that, and don't want wire or bar. The whole idea is to make it easy to replace. Most driveways and sidewalks are 1500 psi, well at least that is Code here.

Andrew Pitonyak
05-27-2020, 11:15 PM
I wouldn't over-think this. An hour with a 20# sledge and gloves and the offending piece is in a dumpster in pieces. Make sure you use a masonry blade on a skill saw to frame the bad piece. Rent an electric demo hammer, the big one--it rents for $100 for two days at Home Despot.

Then call in the ready mix truck with 1500 psi mix. You really don't want it harder than that, and don't want wire or bar. The whole idea is to make it easy to replace. Most driveways and sidewalks are 1500 psi, well at least that is Code here.

Breaking it up is not the hard part, it is getting rid of it. Trash won't take it and that stuff weighs a lot. I have a line on someone who can probably help me get rid of it.

I had hoped to be able to simply jack it up, but, there are two problems. First, it has not really fallen much and they will only jack it to the original height (which I think was too low) and clearly it has fallen some because there looks to be a crack along one piece, but, that would also prevent them from jacking it.

Brian Tymchak
05-28-2020, 10:44 AM
Breaking it up is not the hard part, it is getting rid of it. Trash won't take it and that stuff weighs a lot. I have a line on someone who can probably help me get rid of it.

I had hoped to be able to simply jack it up, but, there are two problems. First, it has not really fallen much and they will only jack it to the original height (which I think was too low) and clearly it has fallen some because there looks to be a crack along one piece, but, that would also prevent them from jacking it.

Andrew, not sure where you are located but here in Gahanna, the city provides a free drop off for waste materials to its residents. Maybe your local gov does the same.

Also, I found the quote I got last Fall to level my walk. The company is B-Level. Their estimate was $75 per section + $150 to locate storm drainage, etc. Given what I saw on my neighbors job, they don't seem to have any issues about raising past original height. But the crack is probably a deal breaker. They told me I would have to replace one section with a crack in it.

Andrew Pitonyak
05-29-2020, 9:49 AM
Andrew, not sure where you are located but here in Gahanna, the city provides a free drop off for waste materials to its residents. Maybe your local gov does the same.

Also, I found the quote I got last Fall to level my walk. The company is B-Level. Their estimate was $75 per section + $150 to locate storm drainage, etc. Given what I saw on my neighbors job, they don't seem to have any issues about raising past original height. But the crack is probably a deal breaker. They told me I would have to replace one section with a crack in it.

B-Level said that if it has not really dropped, then they cannot do it, which means that it is top coat or replace.

I am in Worthington, and I was under the impression that they specifically stated that they do not handle construction waste so I expect that I need to dispose myself. Of course, where I am raising significantly, I expect I could leave some in the bottom to raise it if I wanted to.

Jerome Stanek
05-29-2020, 2:10 PM
B-Level said that if it has not really dropped, then they cannot do it, which means that it is top coat or replace.

I am in Worthington, and I was under the impression that they specifically stated that they do not handle construction waste so I expect that I need to dispose myself. Of course, where I am raising significantly, I expect I could leave some in the bottom to raise it if I wanted to.


Check with the concrete supply yards many take broken concrete for free. Here in Medina there are 3 places that take it within 5 miles of me.

Mike Kees
06-04-2020, 9:36 AM
Around the drain in your basement I would just use a bag or two of sakcrete.(The premixed cement and aggregate stuff) that just requires adding water and mixing. Have also used weldbond glue on repairs like this many times.

Clarence Martinn
06-04-2020, 11:00 AM
Why not just put in precast concrete pavers?

Bob Grier
06-05-2020, 9:11 AM
I would get a big sledge hammer and large crow bar to use for breaking the concrete. It is not difficult unless it is really thick or has reinforcement. Then advertise broken concrete on CraigsList and sell it. Broken concrete is really nice along side narrow parking areas or driveways, in front of sheds, and other places where a solid surface is needed.

Fill between the pieces with 1/4" crushed rock or soil depending on if you prefer ground cover or not.

Add some small sized gravel or crushed rock to level the grade and then place new concrete.

Andrew Pitonyak
06-05-2020, 11:29 AM
Why not just put in precast concrete pavers?

I think that I know what that is, but, this is a city sidewalk.... If it were my walk way, that might be different. I expect the city would make a frowny face!

Kev Williams
06-05-2020, 11:35 AM
"this is a city sidewalk..." Not sure if I missed this in previous posts, but if so, call the city and have them check it out and see if they'll replace it- they should... In fact, they might get a bit huffy if you DO repair it yourself...

Andrew Pitonyak
06-05-2020, 5:38 PM
"this is a city sidewalk..." Not sure if I missed this in previous posts, but if so, call the city and have them check it out and see if they'll replace it- they should... In fact, they might get a bit huffy if you DO repair it yourself...

They are happy to fix it for $300 a section. THey will come around, mark it, then send you a letter than you have x number of days to fix it yourself or they will have someone do it and send you a bill.

Last time, I noted that they marked it so I immediately fixed it myself. Received the letter and saw that I needed a free permit so I called them. He said "no worries, it is really to make sure that wander out to make sure that it was done right. He said if you don't hear back from me, don't worry about it.

THe driveway permit has a cost associated with it so that they can use the cost to fix the road if you mess that up. I don't remember if he said that you get most of the fee back if it is all good.

I think that what that really translates to is that they guy you pay to fix or replace your driveway charges you for the permit then pockets the returned money if they do not mess up the road.

Tom Bender
06-06-2020, 6:19 AM
The rules will vary from city to village to homeowner's assoc etc. Normally installers are required to warrantee their work for a number of years and label it. Ask the local governing authority.

Ronald Blue
06-07-2020, 10:20 AM
Surprises me that they won't repair the sidewalk. However if it's only bothering you then not sure I would sweat it. I think I would would just have them repair it. As for breaking it up. I don't think I've ever saw a 20 lb sledge hammer. I'm not gonna mess with the guy swinging it though. I've used a 16 lb and that was work.

Tom M King
06-07-2020, 10:38 AM
The 20 pounder, you don't have to swing. Hold it straight over head, and bring it down. 12 lb. is the heaviest one I'll swing all the way around, but the 20 pounder, will still break up concrete easier without the full swing.

Andrew Pitonyak
06-07-2020, 10:42 AM
Surprises me that they won't repair the sidewalk. However if it's only bothering you then not sure I would sweat it. I think I would would just have them repair it. As for breaking it up. I don't think I've ever saw a 20 lb sledge hammer. I'm not gonna mess with the guy swinging it though. I've used a 16 lb and that was work.

The walk is sound, but, every time it rains, I end up with a muddy puddle and in the winter I need to use sand or salt because i end up with an ice patch because it is low. The real problem is that I spend time to deal with it, especially in the winter when I have an ice patch as well as spending money when I purchase sand or salt to put on it. In the summer, it is simply an annoyance to have a muddy puddle on the sidewalk.

Some cities will fix it for you if there is a problem with it. Some cities do not. If my city decides that it is a problem, then they are happy to hire someone to do it for me and then send me a bill for it. A neighbor received a bill for over a thousand dollars. I believe that they charge the city, the city pays it, and then the city bills you for it. the city does not in general do this because you ask them to, they wander around every few years and then come through your neighborhood and do them all. By that time, there are usually many that are in really bad shape. We just did it last year and some are already raised by an inch (not new ones, but some older ones that were not seen as a problem last year).

So, after 16 years I am tired of buying things and putting them on the walk and worrying about people falling on my walk. I can keep it safe, but it is annoying that it takes so much extra effort. The city goes after you if you do not maintain, clear, etc, but they do not pay for any of it.

Ronald Blue
06-08-2020, 11:13 PM
The 20 pounder, you don't have to swing. Hold it straight over head, and bring it down. 12 lb. is the heaviest one I'll swing all the way around, but the 20 pounder, will still break up concrete easier without the full swing.

Whether you call it swinging or not you still have to raise it and control it. Some people aren't going to be capable of doing it very safely because of their physical limitations.

Kev Williams
06-09-2020, 7:55 PM
These guys can, fascinating to watch :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-2YN_Ak9eE

Tom M King
06-09-2020, 8:07 PM
I figure if I keep using one, once in a while, I might still be able to when I'm 86:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-NsirLXUMk&t=79s

edited to add: The comments are priceless "Here, hold my cane."