Disc Sander for Segmented Turnings

[Rich Aldrich]

I am planning to try some segmented turning. So this is a good excuse to add a new tool. My understanding is that disc sanders are hand for finishing sanding segments.

I am looking for recommendations on disc sanders. I was thinking about a 12” diameter, but that is somewhat arbitrary.

[Sam Force]

433485If you use a tablesaw and make a "wedgie sled" you do not need a sander. No sander used with this piece

[John K Jordan]

I am planning to try some segmented turning. So this is a good excuse to add a new tool. My understanding is that disc sanders are hand for finishing sanding segments.

I am looking for recommendations on disc sanders. I was thinking about a 12” diameter, but that is somewhat arbitrary.

Rich,

I don't do segmented pieces but I do use my disk sanders a lot for other things - I use two sizes, both are Rikon belt/disk sanders - they are not the quality of a large dedicated (expensive) disk sander but I do use the belt a lot. My largest disk is 10" but a 12" size would be more useful at times. Some people make disks to fit on the lathe and take advantage of the variable speed. Youtube has some videos of people who made their own stand-alone disk sanders.

[Dave Bunge]

Never waste a good opportunity to get a new tool!

Here's one way to rig up an inexpensive system, using a lathe. Start with a 12" Shopsmith Steel Sanding disk (I had one. Looks like they're going for ~$30 on Ebay). Add an $11 Morse taper adapter from Beall to attach the disk to the lathe https://bealltool.com/products/turning/tapers.php. Use some 1/4"-20 all thread to hold the adapter in place. Build a simple wooden table to rest on the bed of the lathe to support the work being sanded. I added a dust collection port to the table.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Following on from David's post (#4), does anyone know is someone makes a flat surface support that would fit in the lathe banjo?

I used to have a Shopsmith and the disc sander was one of the most used tools for me, so I can see how this might work.

There are also lots of YouTube videos showing disc sanders, being made for wood lathes, using a faceplate and MDF.

I've been looking at the 12" Rikon Disc Sander ($250-$300), but I think I'll try the DIY approach first, plus it's one less tool to find space for.

I also do segmented bowls. With my cheap homemade Wedgie Sled, the only real area of sanding is running a glued up ring through my drum sander to make sure it's perfectly flat, on both sides, before glueing the rings together.

[Robert D Evans]

Following on from David's post (#4), does anyone know is someone makes a flat surface support that would fit in the lathe banjo?

I made one with a piece of 1/2" galvanized pipe and a floor flange. The pipe screws into the floor flange and then attach a piece of plywood to the floor flange. 3/4" pipe won't fit into most 1" tool post banjos, but check yours. Works pretty good and is fully adjustable.

[Dick Mahany]

I made this simple 9" disk sander with MDF mounted to a seldom used faceplate. I have since added a 9" PSA to hook and loop backer from 2sand.com to the MDF to make changing disks easier. It could easily be adapted to 12" if needed.

I had an older disk/belt combo that never ran true. This one is as true running as can be, plus the speed can be controlled easily.

433517

[Dan Gaylin]

Rich, I have started doing segmented pieces. Have done five of them at this point. I decided I like doing them enough and I had enough other good excuses for one that I got a drum sander which does a great job leveling out the rings so that they can be glued up. Even with a wedgie sled, I find it is impossible to get the rings perfectly flat when you glue the segments together.

That said, for my first couple of pieces I went low tech and it worked just fine: I used a homemade circle jig for my trim router to cut a 12" circle out of a nice piece of 3/4" plywoord. Then I bought a cheap faceplate which I centered on the circle and screwed in place. 12" is the swing over of my lathe. Then I bought some 12" PSA sanding discs. Worked just fine.

There's an expert segmented bowl maker on Youtube who uses this approach, and he seems to have all of the other fancy tools.

Good luck, I think you will find it is quite fun to do segmented pieces.

--dan

[Don Jarvie]

A drum sander is more important than a disc sander. I have a homemade wedgie sled to cut all of the segments. To clean them up I glue 100 grit to a piece of MDF. Where a disc sander does come in handy is to fit the 2 haves together. If the half’s are a little off I use the 100 grit, if more I have a 6 inch disc sander. Before the drum sander I would use the 100 grit and flatten them. Drum sander is the bees knees.

[Robert Hayward]

433485If you use a tablesaw and make a "wedgie sled" you do not need a sander. No sander used with this piece

That is a very nice looking bowl, nice job. I also use a wedgie sled and do not need to sand the segment edges. I do find a need to sand/flatten the rings after glue up. A drum sander makes short work of the flattening. Sometimes I will use the disc sander to flatten the first side then the drum sander to make the second face parallel to the side flattened with the disc sander.

[Rich Aldrich]

433485If you use a tablesaw and make a "wedgie sled" you do not need a sander. No sander used with this piece

I was wondering about the wedgie sled. I watched a few You Tube University videos where they used the wedgie sled and just sanded by hand to clean up the wedges.

[Rich Aldrich]

Rich,

I don't do segmented pieces but I do use my disk sanders a lot for other things - I use two sizes, both are Rikon belt/disk sanders - they are not the quality of a large dedicated (expensive) disk sander but I do use the belt a lot. My largest disk is 10" but a 12" size would be more useful at times. Some people make disks to fit on the lathe and take advantage of the variable speed. Youtube has some videos of people who made their own stand-alone disk sanders.

I have a Rigid belt / spindle sander, but the belt pushes parallel to the table, so you don't have control like you would with the disc sander. I know I would use it for a lot more than segmented.

[Rich Aldrich]

I made this simple 9" disk sander with MDF mounted to a seldom used faceplate. I have since added a 9" PSA to hook and loop backer from 2sand.com to the MDF to make changing disks easier. It could easily be adapted to 12" if needed.

I had an older disk/belt combo that never ran true. This one is as true running as can be, plus the speed can be controlled easily.

433517

This looks l like a nice set up. I saw a couple of plans similar to this. It does tie up the lathe, but it looks like it is fast to set up and take down.

[Rich Aldrich]

Never waste a good opportunity to get a new tool!

Here's one way to rig up an inexpensive system, using a lathe. Start with a 12" Shopsmith Steel Sanding disk (I had one. Looks like they're going for ~$30 on Ebay). Add an $11 Morse taper adapter from Beall to attach the disk to the lathe https://bealltool.com/products/turning/tapers.php. Use some 1/4"-20 all thread to hold the adapter in place. Build a simple wooden table to rest on the bed of the lathe to support the work being sanded. I added a dust collection port to the table.


I checked out some of the prices on ebay - not too bad. I saw a few of these lathe set ups on You Tube Univeristy.

[Rich Aldrich]

Rich, I have started doing segmented pieces. Have done five of them at this point. I decided I like doing them enough and I had enough other good excuses for one that I got a drum sander which does a great job leveling out the rings so that they can be glued up. Even with a wedgie sled, I find it is impossible to get the rings perfectly flat when you glue the segments together.

That said, for my first couple of pieces I went low tech and it worked just fine: I used a homemade circle jig for my trim router to cut a 12" circle out of a nice piece of 3/4" plywoord. Then I bought a cheap faceplate which I centered on the circle and screwed in place. 12" is the swing over of my lathe. Then I bought some 12" PSA sanding discs. Worked just fine.

There's an expert segmented bowl maker on Youtube who uses this approach, and he seems to have all of the other fancy tools.

Good luck, I think you will find it is quite fun to do segmented pieces.

--dan

I havent convinced myself to buy a drum sander yet. To flatten the rings, I am going to try Cole jaws and turn the face flat followed by face sanding on a flat plate.

[John K Jordan]

I havent convinced myself to buy a drum sander yet. To flatten the rings, I am going to try Cole jaws and turn the face flat followed by face sanding on a flat plate.

It might be worth having! I have both turning and flatwod tools but don't do much flatwood. However, I do use my drum sander a lot for wood turning. For example, when preparing blanks for bowls and platter from dry, rough sawn wood I almost always sand both sides to examine the surface for defects, reveal the color and figure, and let me better decide which side should be up. Parallel faces simplifies marking and drilling recesses and such too.

433564 433566

I also resaw wood into "thick veneer" and use use the drum sander to flatten before gluing it between other pieces for turning. The goblet uses a piece of walnut between the other layers, not only for accent but to allow a better glue bond since the cherry and basswood are both end grain.

433561

When I glue up layers to get thicker stock, flattening the pieces before I start makes things easier, such as with these Beads of Courage boxes.

433562 433563

My drum sander is a Performax 22-44 but that's overkill for woodturning - a much shorter drum would work as well and be easier to align and the sandpaper strips would be cheaper! My guess is once you get a drum sander you won't be able to do without it!

Oh, and one other thing - when making beads of courage boxes from dry wood the deep hollowing can be a pain. It's far easier to hollow the individual layers before glueing them up so most of the hard work inside is already done! In this case, to flatten the rims for gluing I use a method Harvey Meyer shows in one of his videos - when on the lathe first true up a rim a bit with tools then flatten perfectly for gluing by holding a strip of sandpaper against the wood with a flat stick. I glue 80 grit paper to a flat edge of a 2x2 and hold it across both sides of the rim to make it perfect for gluing. (I support the 2x2 on the tool rest to make it easier.) I don't have a photo of this in action, but this drawing shows three such pieces and how I use recesses to hold the pieces for prehollowing and for flattening the rims on both sides with the big sanding stick before glue-up.

433565

The holding method wouldn't work on segmented rings, of course, but the sanding stick method might be useful.

JKJ

[David Bolson]

John, to clarify, you’re prehollowing by mounting a layer on a chuck, flattening the edges for gluing, and then hollowing most of the way through (so you don’t run into the chuck), and then when all the layers are glued together you complete hollowing by breaking through the remaining thin layers of remaining wood?

David

[John K Jordan]

... this drawing shows three such pieces and how I use recesses to hold the pieces for prehollowing and for flattening the rims on both sides with the big sanding stick before glue-up.
433565



John, to clarify, you’re prehollowing by mounting a layer on a chuck, flattening the edges for gluing, and then hollowing most of the way through (so you don’t run into the chuck), and then when all the layers are glued together you complete hollowing by breaking through the remaining thin layers of remaining wood?

David

Yes! Some require holding on one side to create the recess on the other, then reversing and hollowing and cutting away the first holding method. I actually hollow before flattening the rims but I'm not sure that matters.

Pieces before glue-up. (As shown, I generally partially shape the outside before glue-up.) I think this was the one for "Jack", basswood in the center for chip carving.
433582

Drawing, simplified, ready to turn. (I usually remove more wood inside to better match the final shape. But I did these sketches in a hurry late one night.)
433581

I like to show how easy it is at demos! I usually see turning demos where the demonstrator starts with the wood, describes and performs each step, then completes the project. Sometimes the "big picture" gets lost in the details.

For a Beads of Courage demo I like to do it backwards. I start with one all glued up and turned to final shape on the outside. It has the thin "webs" obscuring the inside so it looks solid. I mount it in the lathe and with a parting tool cut through and discard the two internal webs in about 20 seconds then pass the piece around. I've not only hollowed all the way to the bottom but I've shaped, sanded, and already applied finish to the "bowl" of the bottom layer! (It is SO easy to get that bottom curve perfect with this method.)

I like to do this exposing irst to get everyone's attention and show them how this completely avoids the dreaded punishment of deep dry-wood hollowing, All the piece needs then is smoothing the sides inside which is easy. I then go in to the details of doing one from scratch, including different ways of holding and turning, and of course, the sanding stick method of perfectly flattening for gluing, and ways to clamp.

[warning, soapbox lecture] Then I show a method I developed to make a lid that is guaranteed not to stick! Once at a symposium I looked at 10 Beads of Courage boxes that had been turned in for distribution to sick kids at the cancer hospital. But FIVE of the ten vessels had lids that were stuck and needed effort to open. Some kids have limited strength and manual dexterity and shouldn't have to deal with sticky lids. [end of lecture]

Note that for minimum turning effort some pre-planning is needed. I start by sketching out some possible designs. Then for the one I pick I make a full-sized drawing of the profile of the sides, bottom, and top. From this I can take measurements with dividers and determine exactly how wide the glue flats need to be, how to shape each layer to leave enough wood for final turning but not too much that it is a chore to turn. When I started doing this things got SO much easier! Instead of letting the wood "speak to me" and let the shape evolve, I speak firmly to the wood and make sure it knows I'm the boss! I've started using the "stetch first" method for lots of turnings and am accumulating notebooks full of sketches.

This, BTW, is one of my sketches. Not only does it guide me in preparing the blanks for glue-up, it also lets me calculate the internal volume which can be important.

433580

The horizontal lines represent the thickness of each layer.

For anyone isn't aware of the BOC program, search google or at least watch this video about the reason for the beads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMCcJxO9mnY

A friend who has been making these for years said the whole thing hit home when two parents told told him they used his BOC boxes for urns for the children's ashes...

JKJ