Laminated or Slab Benchtop

[Erich Weidner]

For those of you who have built and worked on both, what is your advice?

I just started looking to see if I could find a hardwood slab big enough for a 22" x 8' workbench (in 5-6" thickness).
I've watched a few dozen bench build videos and have read through the Schwarz bench books (also bought the Lost Art Press video on a single slab Roubo build).

I'll say I like the idea of a solid slab (and avoiding a big glue up project), but I'm not a big fan of the large checks I see on the big slabs. Not a deal breaker, I'm reasonably confident I won't care too much after the bench picks up some wear and tear from being used.

I just don't like the look of the SYP benches, I want to use a hardwood. My best bet in central Texas might be Pecan... but I'm still trying to find any kind of slab. (Just started making enquiries).

I enjoyed the Lost Art Press recent blog/video posts touring the various types of benches in their shop. I think I've settled on a Roubo style bench.

Thoughts?

PS. I've also seen mention that holdfasts don't work well in thick (over 4") bench tops. Is that true?

[Brandon Speaks]

A slab of that size sounds super expensive. A hardwood glue up could be an option. I have heard that about holdfasts. Suppose you can drill a larger hole partway through from below

[Scott Winners]

PS. I've also seen mention that holdfasts don't work well in thick (over 4") bench tops. Is that true?

The Crucible Tool holdfasts I have work just fine when dropped through the '6' dimension (5 1/2" actual) of my 4x6 sawhorse tops. But they are heavy. I won't be surprised to hear the Lie-Nielsens might work in 4" actual bench tops also. Probably a couple others too. Gramercy anyone? The Gramercy holdfasts are pretty popular here.

I have never worked on a slab top, so not touching that part.

[Erich Weidner]

I currently have a 2"-ish thick top on my crappy Sjoberg "bench". (I bought it in my 20's. I'm now 40's. Good decade passed without doing much wood work. But for the past year I've been back in.) Boy oh Boy does it suck. Can't wait to build a solid bench.

Anyway I have a LN holdfast and it works OK, but keeps coming loose. I suspect the top of my bench is just too thin. But I don't want to go too thick either. I was specifying 5-6 inches because that seems to be the old school Roubo thickness. But I'm pretty sure I want to stick with 3/4" holes in the bench vs 1" for the crucible. So if 4" is the magic number I'm OK with that too.

[Scott Winners]

I don't own a set of LN holdfasts to comment for sure, but the crucibles like a really tight hole. I have a 1" spade bit that I keep filing a bit more width off of to make future holdfast holes smaller and smaller and smaller. I'll find its sweet spot before the next bench top is made.

I do readily agree there is a ton of neat stuff out there for 3/4 inch holes.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not a big fan of the large checks I see on the big slabs.

The local dealers around my area tend to have large pieces without checks. Usually they are limited to 16/4 and over 12" isn't common. Occasionally they will get larger pieces, but the price is the prohibitive feature of those.

You may need to find an independent sawyer or a full service lumber dealer.

It seems to be my good fortune to have a few good lumber dealers in the Portland area.

Another option would be to purchase two slabs and make a split top Roubo. If you do not like the idea of a tool tray in the center you could have a removable piece or a central lamination.

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

Another option would be to purchase two slabs and make a split top Roubo. If you do not like the idea of a tool tray in the center you could have a removable piece or a central lamination.

jtk

I don't really want a tool tray. I've not looked into a split top. So basically you are suggesting 2 slabs plus a filler thin piece?
What about just 2-3 smaller slabs then? Or at that point should one just laminate a bunch of 16/4 or such?

[William Fretwell]

Pecan sounds lovely to look at and work on. I think the wood you can find will make the choice for you. Go to lumber mills, look in Kiji for local guys who mill, it is not that hard to get interesting wood at a good price outside the usual channels. I was presented with a black walnut option in non furniture grade at a very good price.
As for Gramercy hold downs, my locations were 4 inches thick, I drilled holes and they did not work, I back drilled underneath with a larger bit in stages to see when they worked, at 3 & 1/2” they hold like an Alligator. Below 2” I believe they are useless. You can glue pads of wood underneath on a 2” bench to make it thicker at the needed locations so don’t get hung up on bench thickness either way.

[ken hatch]

Pecan sounds lovely to look at and work on. I think the wood you can find will make the choice for you. Go to lumber mills, look in Kiji for local guys who mill, it is not that hard to get interesting wood at a good price outside the usual channels. I was presented with a black walnut option in non furniture grade at a very good price.
As for Gramercy hold downs, my locations were 4 inches thick, I drilled holes and they did not work, I back drilled underneath with a larger bit in stages to see when they worked, at 3 & 1/2” they hold like an Alligator. Below 2” I believe they are useless. You can glue pads of wood underneath on a 2” bench to make it thicker at the needed locations so don’t get hung up on bench thickness either way.

I have a couple of portable Moravian benches with 8/4 Beech slabs. One is 1 7/8" thick and the other is 1 3/4", Gramercy hold fasts work well on either bench. I also have a couple of Roubo style benches, both have laminated slabs. One is beech and 3 3/4" thick, Gramercy hold fasts work well with no back drilling. The other bench has a laminated 4 1/4" SYP slab, it needed back drilling to work consistently with Gramercy hold fasts. My two shop sized Moravian benches have laminated 3 1/2" Beech slabs which work well with Gramercy hold fasts.

I also have a couple of "Black Bear Forge" hold fasts that work slightly better than the Gramercy hold fast on any of my benches. They cost a few bucks more but depending on how much you like your money they may or may not be worth the extra cost.

As to the question of slab vs. laminated slab, laminated slabs are easy to build (can be run through most planers if split or if one piece you may only have to deal with one glue joint), usually cost less, move less, and can be sized to desired size easily. One piece slabs have a greater "hoot" factor so it kinda depends on if you are building to work on or building to impress. I will give one advantage to a one piece slab, it is easier to build but it will also take more work to keep flat.

One more thought since you have not started your build. Depending of length of your bench, wood used, and design of the base (good design can make up for a lot of extra weight) anything over about 3 1/2" may be over kill and just add unnecessary cost to the build. But then there is the "hoot" factor and men do have a need to impress.

ken

[Phil Gaudio]

The laminated approach does yield a very stable top. It also allows the easy incorporation of things like square bench dogs and tail vises. IIRC I did the glue-up in either 3 or 4 sections, then glued the sections together in sequence. This bench happens to be hard maple. I made up a couple of sets of clamps using dimensional lumber and threaded rod to keep everything aligned during the glue-ups.

[William Fretwell]

So Ken we agree that at around 3 & 1/2” Gramercy hold downs work well, with some small variation depending on the wood. I have used them on someone else’s bench at 2” and they were intermittent, frequent re-tapping required. Your Beech benches are a lovely hard wood for a bench and clearly agree with your hold downs!

The angle of the hold down in the bench increases as the depth diminishes, the contact length and hence the area of steel and wood diminishes. The increased angle and decreased area will wear the hole more on a thinner bench top, especially on softer woods. Ironically this may initially increase the contact area but as wear continues the angle will continue to increase, requiring harder taps and creating even more wear.

The quality of the hole will affect friction, a rough drilled hole such as a hand auger will have fewer contact points, a Forstner bit will provide a smooth hole and maximize contact with the steel. I would start with a Forstner then when it’s length is exhausted use the smoothest drill bit you have, or buy one. My bench holes are treated with 3 coats of smoking hot BLO.

[Phil Gaudio]

One more thought since you have not started your build. Depending of length of your bench, wood used, and design of the base (good design can make up for a lot of extra weight) anything over about 3 1/2" may be over kill and just add unnecessary cost to the build. But then there is the "hoot" factor and men do have a need to impress.

ken

Should have mentioned, the base to this bench uses 3-1/2" square legs (I only needed to impress the builder).

[Phil Gaudio]

Anyway I have a LN holdfast and it works OK, but keeps coming loose. I suspect the top of my bench is just too thin. But I don't want to go too thick either. I was specifying 5-6 inches because that seems to be the old school Roubo thickness. But I'm pretty sure I want to stick with 3/4" holes in the bench vs 1" for the crucible. So if 4" is the magic number I'm OK with that too.

Should have also mentioned that the top of my bench is 4" thick and the LN holdfasts work extremely well in this top.

[Jim Koepke]

I don't really want a tool tray. I've not looked into a split top. So basically you are suggesting 2 slabs plus a filler thin piece?
What about just 2-3 smaller slabs then? Or at that point should one just laminate a bunch of 8/4 or such?

Lots of folks like having a narrow channel between the slabs. Not for a tool tray but for clamping. Some will have a piece between the two so it is a continuous top but it can be removed for clamping. Some have it set up so when it is flipped over it makes a low ridge as an aid to hold work.

Finding a 22" wide slab will be a challenge. Finding two 11" slabs while still a challenge isn't as difficult of a challenge.

Besides, even without a split top gluing and truing two slabs will be easier than gluing and truing a dozen pieces of 2X material.

jtk

[scott lipscomb]

I think the topic of what makes a holdfast hold is a good one. I spent a morning a while back making holdfasts out of steel forming stakes (which I always have a ton of) that netted out to about 9/16" or 5/8"+. One thing that was interesting, is that the projection of the holdfast laterally from the hole made a big difference in ability to hold. Some, worked marginally in a 3/4" hole 5 1/2" fir bench top, then, my best ones all hold well in 3/4" holes back drilled for a net depth of +/- 4". Then, I made some holdfasts from 7/8" stock and set them in a 1" hole and they hold great without any fussing in two bench tops of 5" + thickness. The projection is all greater on these. From my experience, a bigger hole and bigger diameter means better hold in thicker tops. I use all of these holdfasts that I made regularly and they work well.

On the topic of slab, it seems like an aesthetic thing for a single slab. One of my benches is a split top with two singular pieces of Doug fir. It's what was handy and milled from my house. The bench that I use a lot more is a torsion box made with high quality plywood. For what I do, its extremely useful for me because it is totally flat, and I guess my workflow blurs the line between workbench and assembly table, which is another interesting topic to me, as I guess I don't really get how so many folks regard the workbench as so distinct from assembly table, but then, all I know is what I know, and haven't really watched to many other folks work...cecause it flats, its easy to check stuff as I am building and for glue ups, like chairs and cases, I know that I have a flat reference.

[Jim Koepke]

For what I do, its extremely useful for me because it is totally flat, and I guess my workflow blurs the line between workbench and assembly table, which is another interesting topic to me, as I guess I don't really get how so many folks regard the workbench as so distinct from assembly table,

Most of the time my bench is also the assembly table. If there is a possibility of dripping glue, then large pieces of cardboard are on hand to protect the top.

jtk

[ken hatch]

So Ken we agree that at around 3 & 1/2” Gramercy hold downs work well, with some small variation depending on the wood. I have used them on someone else’s bench at 2” and they were intermittent, frequent re-tapping required. Your Beech benches are a lovely hard wood for a bench and clearly agree with your hold downs!

The angle of the hold down in the bench increases as the depth diminishes, the contact length and hence the area of steel and wood diminishes. The increased angle and decreased area will wear the hole more on a thinner bench top, especially on softer woods. Ironically this may initially increase the contact area but as wear continues the angle will continue to increase, requiring harder taps and creating even more wear.

The quality of the hole will affect friction, a rough drilled hole such as a hand auger will have fewer contact points, a Forstner bit will provide a smooth hole and maximize contact with the steel. I would start with a Forstner then when it’s length is exhausted use the smoothest drill bit you have, or buy one. My bench holes are treated with 3 coats of smoking hot BLO.

William,

Yep, pretty much. In hard wood the smooth Gramercy hold fasts will work well between around 1 3/4" and 3 1/2" with no modification. A Blacksmith made hold fast will hold slightly better in that range of thickness. Smaller or larger I have no experience so not a clue.

ken

[Warren Mickley]

The holdfast in Roubo is very different from many made today. The arm of the hold fast tapers the whole way and is 1/8 to 3/16 at the end. Roubo says they should be very flexible. That way they don't depend so much on the spring of the wood or the roughness of the shaft to hold as much as their own springiness. The Gramercy can be improved by grinding down the arm to a thinner profile. Roubo shows the holdfast in a bench top that is 5 or 6 inches thick.

433117

[Jim Koepke]

These holdfasts purchased from Harry Strasil (R.I.P.) have a 5/8" shaft with a springy steel blade welded on:

433118

They work well on my bench and on my saw benches with 2X construction lumber for the top.

jtk

[Don Dorn]

I screwed up and got rid of a 2.75 inch bench of Poplar. Did a glue up since and didn't care for it as it was Pine. I decided to go with the Chris Schwarz 2 day build that is two slabs of butcher block counter top glued up. Back to a good flat 3" top with no blind dog holes. Have had it about a year and wish for nothing different. Hold fasts work perfect and the leg system is massive which I think adds another 60 lbs. It doesn't move. Several ways to get it done, that's for sure.

[Jerome Andrieux]

I don't really want a tool tray. I've not looked into a split top. So basically you are suggesting 2 slabs plus a filler thin piece?
What about just 2-3 smaller slabs then? Or at that point should one just laminate a bunch of 8/4 or such?

I built a bench this way. Three 18cm wide, 8cm thick beech slabs with 1.5cm gap between them.
The global dimensions are 200cm long, 60cm wide, a little less than 8cm thick and little less than 100cm high; I prefer high benches.
It was built for around 300 euros of raw material.
I have build quite a few benches in the past, often on site, with construction grade timber, either pine or douglas fir, which are usually 6.5x18. I used a similar design, eventually longer but narrower. And much cheaper, 100 euros.

Design wise, it has tilted legs, an apron on one side, a split top and lots of 20mm dog holes which handle the 19mm holdfasts nicely, with a slight sanding of the poles.
Protip : don’t drill a 19mm hole for a 19mm pole in any top over 4cm.

Whatever technique you use won’t change that you’ll have to flatten it to your tolerances afterward, once settled.

Have fun!

[Jim Matthews]

Late to the party - please forgive the intrusion.

I modified a laminated benchtop to accept a full length "batten" with center clamping access.

It was more trouble than it was worth - most flat boards I plane are wide enough to clamp or reach a batten near an edge of the bench.

I've migrated to a simpler laminated top with dogholes.

If you already have access to seasoned slabs, that removes multiple glue joints.

If the slabs are not seasoned, it will be a few years before they settle down, even in Texas.

Grizzly sold laminated tops at one point, which were a good value. Beware sinking furniture building time into shop fixture time.

[Erich Weidner]

One more thought since you have not started your build. Depending of length of your bench, wood used, and design of the base (good design can make up for a lot of extra weight) anything over about 3 1/2" may be over kill and just add unnecessary cost to the build. But then there is the "hoot" factor and men do have a need to impress.

ken

I only need to impress myself. None of my friends will care, most don't get why I own "grandpa saws", wife doesn't have a horse in the race, but she's seen me watch the LAP Roubo build video so many times she might notice if I don't make the top reasonably thick. ;)

[Erich Weidner]

My bench holes are treated with 3 coats of smoking hot BLO.


So your bench has BLO Holes? :) (Sorry couldn't resist).

But in earnest, What is BLO?

[Jim Koepke]

[edited]
But in earnest, What is BLO?

Boiled Linseed Oil

BTW, a search on using BLO is what led me to SMC years ago.

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

Eric, as I believe someone mentioned up above, a one piece slab of hardwood in the thickness you mentioned (or even at 4" thick) is going to be monster heavy and difficult for a one-man move around during the build. It could be show-stopping difficult unless being able to rig some type of overhead lifting equipment.

[Erich Weidner]

Eric, as I believe someone mentioned up above, a one piece slab of hardwood in the thickness you mentioned (or even at 4" thick) is going to be monster heavy and difficult for a one-man move around during the build. It could be show-stopping difficult unless being able to rig some type of overhead lifting equipment.


I've got a good friend who isn't a hand tool guy, but likes to hang out and help with projects (it is reciprocal). So that shouldn't be an issue.

[Jim Koepke]

Erich, if you can find a single slab of the size you want, then my suggestion is you build your dream bench. If nothing else it will be a satisfying experience every time you stand next to it.

jtk

[Blake M Williams]

My bench was my first project. Money was an issue so I glued up 2x4s. Once the legs were made and the top pieces put on I had a 3 foot by 5 foot bench. It took forever to plane flat. I'm buying slabs next time.

[Scott T Smith]

Brandon Berdoll at Berdoll Sawmill in Bastrop, TX may be able to assist you with a thick slab. Tell him that Scott Smith referred you.

[Erich Weidner]

Brandon Berdoll at Berdoll Sawmill in Bastrop, TX may be able to assist you with a thick slab. Tell him that Scott Smith referred you.

I have already sent them an email. No response so far.

[Tony Shea]

I built my first bench top out of laminated 4x4 doug fir as money was an issue to begin with. I have been using this bench for a while now with not too much issue. The base I made out of hard maple knowing I would replace the top at some point. The legs on the base are 4"x5" hard maple so is extremely stable. I've also made it in the Roubo style so the legs are at the same plane as the edge of the bench with a Lake Erie Tools Leg Vise.

Knowing what I know now I would def opt for a Benchcrafted Wagon Vise or a LN Tail Vise and will on my new top. I also would opt for a row of square dog holes near the front edge of the bench as I think they are just superior for work holding when paired with a wagon vise or tail vise. I'm a heavy hand tool user so find myself surfacing lumber a lot with handplanes and the square dogs with either of those two vises just give you great grip on flat work pieces. I would also use a light colored hard wood for the top that is at least 4" thick and is laminated using at least 8/4 boards on edge. IMO this laminated surface just gives you much more stability and negates the need to constantly flatten the top of the bench. There will still be some maintenance flattening the top but no where near what a solid slab that is not dried all the way through. Even with my 4x4 doug fir top the wood wasn't 100% dry therefore moves a lot on me and I need to flatten it more than I'd like. I wouldn't hesitate following a Benchcrafted plan on making the bench top using laminated hard maple or maybe even ash. Ash is a little open pored for a bench top but is really durable and strong. I also think the open pored nature of the wood might help the surface from being like glass as maple would be.

Basically the moral of the story is I wouldn't bother waiting for a large slab and just get on with a glue up. I think you'll be happier with the stability and the ability to create square dog holes near the front edge of the bench. Again, check out Benchcrafted for their vises, bench hardware, and plans. IMO these are the nicest benches on the planet right now.

[Chris Fournier]

I've made several benches and have chosen not to take the slab route. With the exception of the cool aesthetics and vibe of a slab I only see trouble. I've made lots of slab furniture over the years and I enjoyed the projects but a bench will live on to be a tool in your shop. I have laminated my bench tops to suit my designs for each bench which is kinda nice. I think that they are cheaper than slab benches and to my way of working far more functional. Either way a bench project is like no other and is really a lot of fun! Show us your bench when you're done. Also take a boo at the old Taunton Press Scott Landis book about benches, it will help you design and build the bench that you want.

[Stu Gillard]

I built my first bench top out of laminated 4x4 doug fir as money was an issue to begin with. I have been using this bench for a while now with not too much issue. The base I made out of hard maple knowing I would replace the top at some point. The legs on the base are 4"x5" hard maple so is extremely stable. I've also made it in the Roubo style so the legs are at the same plane as the edge of the bench with a Lake Erie Tools Leg Vise.


Hi Tony,

Quick question.
I have a heap of old close-grained Doug fir which I'm planning on using for building the entirety of a new workbench.

Has the top been a problem?
Should I be looking for some other timber?

Cheers,
Stu

[Scott T Smith]

I have already sent them an email. No response so far.

You might want to give him a call. Nowadays, with all the phishing scams I'm finding that lot's of incoming e-mails to me are not making it through, and most likely the same thing is occurring with Brandon.

[Ben Ellenberger]

Doug fir is plenty sturdy for a bench. It can be a little splintery, so if you get a little careless and catch a corner of the bench with a saw you might take a chunk out. It is also pretty light. My bench is Doug fir, and the laminated top is only about 2 3/4” x 16” x 5’, with a tool well at the back For a total width of about 24”. So, it is a pretty small bench and it is a little too light for my taste. For the most part it works fine, but if you are rough planing across the width of the bench You will feel it rock back and forth a bit. If you made a bigger Doug fir bench with a thicker top I’m sure it would be heavy enough to be more stable. Doug fir is plenty stiff and hard for a bench material.

[Michael J Evans]

You people must be behemoths or something to need 5" thick benches?... or Is it like having a 10" lift on a truck kinda thing?

Not trying to be spiteful as I am very inexperienced. But I have no power tools for dimensioning lumber and do it all with my planes. My bench is only 2-3/4 thick, laminated Doug fir x 60" long. I've never felt it lacking in the heft department. It is against a wall so that stops any horizontal movement, but lengthwise it's never moved on me. Mines also not perfectly flat, I gave up on trying, and it has all kinds of glue,beer, oil and every kind of stain imaginable. But it holds my work steady.
Also on the holdfasts subject. I bought a cheap handforged? Pair off of eBay, I believe they were $45. They seem to work dam well. I can probably find the purchase history if you all need some reliable holdfasts.

[Tony Shea]

Hi Tony,

Quick question.
I have a heap of old close-grained Doug fir which I'm planning on using for building the entirety of a new workbench.

Has the top been a problem?
Should I be looking for some other timber?

Cheers,
Stu

If you have doug fir on hand I wouldn't hesitate making a bench from it. Like others have said it is very splintery and you will rip a chunk or two off the edge when a splinter catches on you. My doug fir 4x4's came from HD when they had some really nice tight grained stuff in stock. I would pick a couple out and wait till they got another batch in to pick through. I did this for a few months until I had enough, at $10 a stick I couldn't beat the price for the quality of material.

Having said this I don't believe it was that dry even after letting it sit in my shop for 8+ months. Either that or doug fir is really unstable as my bench is constantly moving and going a bit out of flat. Most of the time the flatness is a non issue and I just deal with it unless I'm planing thin stock for a project. Then I'll take the time to flatten it out, which is when I'm glad it's doug fir and not hard maple. As far as thickness goes I'm around 3.25" and I personally think that's plenty thick enough for my purposes. I have Gramercy and Lie Nielsen holdfasts and they both stick no problem in my bench. I do prefer the Lie Nielsen as they seem to hold a bit better due to the rougher surface.

[Jim Matthews]

My bench is only 2-3/4 thick, laminated Doug fir x 60" long. I've never felt it lacking in the heft department. It is against a wall so that stops any horizontal movement, but lengthwise it's never moved on me. Mines also not perfectly flat, I gave up on trying, and it has all kinds of glue,beer, oil and every kind of stain imaginable. But it holds my work steady.


Sounds alot like my bench.

The point of using a slab is to skip the lamination.

[chris carter]

I’ve never owned a slab bench, but from everything I’ve read they are a big pain in the butt due to constant flattening and chasing down cracks/checks in the ends. If that doesn’t bug you, then go for it. I will admit, with the right slab they look really darn cool (I’ve also seen really ugly ones, so not just any slab will do). One nice thing about lamination is that, if you have a thickness planer, you can make it in sections small enough to fit through the planer. Just work one side by hand flat enough to get decent registration for the thickness planer and then let the machine do all the hard work. Then glue your sections together and you will only have a minimal amount of hand planing left. Or, if making a split top, you won’t even have to glue those sections together – just assemble the bench and you will only have to flatten the top.

Laminated benches will generally have way less movement because the pieces in the lamination tend to keep each other in check, relatively speaking. It also takes like a billion years to fully dry a slab all the way through, hence all the movement and checking issues.

Personally, I could have used whatever I wanted ($-wise) for my new bench I recently built and went with doug fir and a laminated 4” top. I have zero regrets. Soft tops are very easy to work on. The only downside is the road rash that builds up, but it’s a 10 minute resurfacing to take off a 1/32 every couple years. My first bench was construction lumber (SPF, but I don’t think there was any F in there, and it was generally softer than doug fir) and I didn’t have to resurface for two years before all the tiny dents became annoying enough to prompt me to do it. The other problem being mass, but a bucket of sand, large dumbbell, tool chest, etc. sitting on the bottom shelf easily cures that problem.

[Jim Koepke]

The other problem being mass, but a bucket of sand, large dumbbell, tool chest, etc. sitting on the bottom shelf easily cures that problem.

A plastic bucket filled with concrete can also help:

433499

This light weight bench seldom moves now when planing long pieces.

jtk

[ken hatch]

I’ve never owned a slab bench, but from everything I’ve read they are a big pain in the butt due to constant flattening and chasing down cracks/checks in the ends. If that doesn’t bug you, then go for it. I will admit, with the right slab they look really darn cool (I’ve also seen really ugly ones, so not just any slab will do). One nice thing about lamination is that, if you have a thickness planer, you can make it in sections small enough to fit through the planer. Just work one side by hand flat enough to get decent registration for the thickness planer and then let the machine do all the hard work. Then glue your sections together and you will only have a minimal amount of hand planing left. Or, if making a split top, you won’t even have to glue those sections together – just assemble the bench and you will only have to flatten the top.

Laminated benches will generally have way less movement because the pieces in the lamination tend to keep each other in check, relatively speaking. It also takes like a billion years to fully dry a slab all the way through, hence all the movement and checking issues.

Personally, I could have used whatever I wanted ($-wise) for my new bench I recently built and went with doug fir and a laminated 4” top. I have zero regrets. Soft tops are very easy to work on. The only downside is the road rash that builds up, but it’s a 10 minute resurfacing to take off a 1/32 every couple years. My first bench was construction lumber (SPF, but I don’t think there was any F in there, and it was generally softer than doug fir) and I didn’t have to resurface for two years before all the tiny dents became annoying enough to prompt me to do it. The other problem being mass, but a bucket of sand, large dumbbell, tool chest, etc. sitting on the bottom shelf easily cures that problem.

I can't help myself :D, good design can replace a lot of mass.

Chris,

I agree with every thing you posted, I've done both slab and laminated and of the two laminated wins easily. As I have posted before the only advantage of using a slab is the "hoot" factor and I admit a slab Roubo can have hoot factor out the ying yang.

ken

[Jim Matthews]

.
"hoot" factor and I admit a slab Roubo can have hoot factor out the ying yang.

ken

If you're hooting out your ying yang, get help moving the bench. It's better with an audience.

[Jim Koepke]

If you're hooting out your ying yang, get help moving the bench. It's better with an audience.

Just don't light a match! :eek:

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

You might want to give him a call. Nowadays, with all the phishing scams I'm finding that lot's of incoming e-mails to me are not making it through, and most likely the same thing is occurring with Brandon.


I called. They can cut me a slab out of pecan. Price seems reasonable.

[Erich Weidner]

OK, a sawmill relatively nearby to Austin can cut me a slab of 4-6" thickness in the size I'm looking for ~8' long by ~24" wide. In pecan.

Now, the question comes to how thick and how wide do I really want it?

Seems like folks have had different experiences with holdfasts in thick slabs. So... again, how thick do I want this sucker? And how wide. I'm thinking 23" or 24" My current bench is 20" wide, and I find that to be too narrow.

[Jim Koepke]

24" is about the extent of most folks reach. If you are not going to use a tool tray, go wide or go home!

Even with a tool tray a few extra inches will help if you find 20" too narrow.

jtk

[chris carter]

My previous bench was 23-1/2 and sometimes when I would assemble something I would find myself wishing for just one more inch. My new bench is 26" so that should never be an issue, but I'm also six and a half feet tall so I can easily reach across it. A regular sized person would probably find it a little annoying.

[David Eisenhauer]

I wonder at what point one reaches diminishing returns on thickness. I have 4" thick bench and can't imagine one "feeling more solid" if it were thicker. I also believe that thicker than 4" may lead to issues with holdfasts, but that can be alleviated with a back bore in the holdfast holes we have been told. I am in awe as I imagine the slab of pecan you may end up with. I have done some furniture work with pecan and it is hard on chisel edges. I had to go to a 35* bevel to keep from rolling the edge in an older set of chisels that normally did not have that issue. Pretty stuff.

[Erich Weidner]

A regular sized person would probably find it a little annoying.
I'm merely 5' 8", and with a belly that reduces my reach by a few inches. :)

[Erich Weidner]

I wonder at what point one reaches diminishing returns on thickness. I have 4" thick bench and can't imagine one "feeling more solid"

I was originally saying slab of 4-6" because that is what the Roubo book specified. I'm sure 4" would be fine.

But then I've never worked on anything but my crappy thin, light, crappy bench. In hindsight I now know why I gravitated to power tools for a decade. This bench makes everything slow and miserable. I guess I want to ensure the new bench which I want to last my lifetime, will stay put, not vibrate tools off the top while I'm working at the other end, and be big enough to have space to work on big boards.

[ken hatch]

I was originally saying slab of 4-6" because that is what the Roubo book specified. I'm sure 4" would be fine.

But then I've never worked on anything but my crappy thin, light, crappy bench. In hindsight I now know why I gravitated to power tools for a decade. This bench makes everything slow and miserable. I guess I want to ensure the new bench which I want to last my lifetime, will stay put, not vibrate tools off the top while I'm working at the other end, and be big enough to have space to work on big boards.

Erich,

That doesn't happen very often, especially with first or second bench builds. A bench needs to fit you and the work you do, all the books published and all the bench "experts", including me, are full of crap when it comes to your bench. Follow their advise, add all the bells and whistles that sound good, and I will bet within a year there will be things that drive you to barking at the moon mad. The one bit of advice that is valid is to pick a bench style that has stood the test of time, which in your case is a Roubo, and build it simple, cheap, and quickly. Work on it for awhile until there are things that bug you but can't be fixed easily, then build another making the needed changes. Repeat until you feel you have the bench that is perfect, it likely will not be because as folks work wood what they do changes over the years which in turn may require a different bench. That is the bad news, the good is building benches can be a hoot.

I think only one of my benches built in the last few years has had a slab that approached 4". Most of the shop benches have slabs around 3 1/2", the portable benches have slabs that are close to 2". None of the benches move around when planing, and I can mortise anywhere on the 3 1/2" slab. On a normal sized bench (8' or less) there is no reason to go greater than 4"s. As an aside, good design can replace a lot of weight

ken

[Tony Shea]

I agree bench thickness doesn't need to be any thicker than 4". The base of my bench uses 4" x 5" maple legs with 2 1/2" thick maple stretchers. IMO the solid base is more important than having a bench top of 4"+. My bench top is doug fir and is 3.5" thick and is is plenty sturdy in terms of vibration. If it was made of a hardwood like maple I would think it would feel like a rock.

I'm still not sold on you being that happy with a great big slab but if that's the route you want to take then have at it. I just think you'll be dealing with the constant movement due to the top slowly drying over many many years.

I'm also not so sure I agree with Ken's comments on building a cheap bench and planning on building another one every so often. I think researching what you think you'll want and using the nicest hardware you can afford and just building a lifetime bench that will work with both power and handtools is the way to go. I am personally much more interested in making furniture than I am benches therefore I just want to get the bench done correctly and start building furniture with the understanding there will be things you'll love and things you'll hate. That again is why I'm a fan of using a laminated top and then being able to modify or replace it if I really don't like it's features. Having said this I still can't imagine not liking a bench that incorporates a great face vice (either a nice leg vise or a twin screw) with a solid tail vise (either a LN tail vise or a Benchcrafted wagon vise) with a row of square dog holes in front. That to me is the ultimate bench top and I just can't imagine ever wanting something different.

But then again as Ken mentioned all of our work methods are different and also change over time. So what I think is best for me certainly is not what is best for anyone else. Also, some people really enjoy building benches and like tweaking their design over and over. I treat my bench like any other tool in the shop and just use it without thinking about it too much, that is of course unless it's not functioning properly. The worst tool in the shop to have function poorly is the workbench, fettling a workbench is much more work than getting a handplane to take nice shavings.

[Erich Weidner]

So, it looks like Lost Art Press is about to put out another book on benches. About 2 months out... Given how much I've read and watched from C.S. I think I'm at this point going to wait to read that before I proceed with a new bench build.
I've lived with my crappy bench for 15 years (and I hate it) but 2 more months at this point isn't a big deal. In the meantime I'll work on my M&T hand tool joints and get started with dovetails.

[Rafael Herrera]

My dad bought a load of mahogany back home in the 70s. He saved a huge slab, at least 3" x 36" x 10ft as his workbench top. He used it for the rest of his life, I don't think he ever flattened or attached it to the base. It's still there, in a corner of the old workshop now, waiting.