Guitar Glue Question

[john whittaker]

I've always heard that hide glue was the choice for luthiers. Now I read that many guitar (acoustic steel string) makers are using original Titebond. Does anyone know or have an opinion on which glue is preferable?

[Gary Whitt]

If you think you will have to take it apart at some time in the future, use hide glue.

Otherwise, use titebond or gorilla glue; your choice.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John....You might try sending Shiraz Balolia a PM.....he builds guitars as a hobby. He could probably answer your questions. You can see some of the guitars he's built at the Grizzley site.

[Doug Shepard]

On guitars being built nowadays you're probably likely to find 2-4 different types of glue on any one guitar, depending on whether or not the joint might need to be taken apart in the future. Laminating up a neck for instance is not something you ever want to have come apart, so something permanent is called for - Titebond, Urea, epoxy, etc. Something like a bridge, the top/back plate to kerfing, or the neck to body joint might need to be dis-assembled in the future, so hide glue is often used there. Installing inlay on the headstock or fretboard seem to be mostly done with cyano's or epoxy. As near as I can tell, there's no ONE glue that does it all for instrument building.

[john whittaker]

Doug, what you say makes a lot of sense and was just what I thought. The internet is full of information and one can be exposed to a vast amount of ideas, but much of it is a bit conflicting. I'm starting my first acoustic steel string and just gathering info. I plan on picking one or two reputable teaching books and go from there.

Yes Ken, I read Shariz's article and have seen his work. Very very impressive. His inlay work is remarkable.

[john whittaker]

Just posted my biggest tool gloat yesterday...new table saw. Well as happy as I am about that, the LOML one upped that with her Christmas gift to me.

I've played guitar since....well a very long time...and my 30 yr old acoustic was stolen several years ago. The replacement was a very well made Tacoma solid koa wood steel string and sounds incredible. But the set up and finger board are entirely different than what I was accustomed too and I've developed a very sore elbow that keeps me from playing for more than a few min. Doing some research I've found that some other players have experienced the same issue and have had guitars custom made to help alleviate the pain. These guitars start at around 5 K so they are out of my reach. I've always wanted to make my own guitar and have been "threatening" to do so. So LOML convinced me to "go for it" and started me off with a kit from Martin.

It's going to be a huge learning curve but my goal is to learn enough making this first guitar to someday make a custom instrument with a tapered body, and other ergonomic features that will allow me to play longer.

Since luthier work falls under the general topic of woodworking I'll try to post progress updates. (Hopefully there will be progress)

[Keith Foster]

John - I saw one of those Martin kits in a catalog - VERY NICE!

I have one of Grizzly's fantastic kits for an electric that I hope to begin the build process on very soon.

http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pics/jpeg500/H/h6086.jpg

This was a gift from someone before Christmas - so it's not "really" a Christmas gift per se. But the misses and I tried something different this year as far as gift giving goes. We both agreed to purchase something for ourselves and keep the price at a certain level.

With this in mind I headed out to the local music dealer and scored a very nice Yamaha FG730S acoustic. Best part of the deal was a small scratch on the side where the guitar sits on your leg. They knocked $50 off for the scratch and took me under budget!

http://www.imuso.co.uk/images/Product/AG00233.jpg

Now all I have to do is learn how to play!

[Gary Whitt]

First Quality Misical Supplies is a great place for parts, books and kits.

www.fqms.com (http://www.fqms.com)


I buy most of my stuff (banjo, guitar, mandolin, fiddle, bass and dobro) from them.

[Shiraz Balolia]

I've always heard that hide glue was the choice for luthiers. Now I read that many guitar (acoustic steel string) makers are using original Titebond. Does anyone know or have an opinion on which glue is preferable?

John - most commercial guitar builders use Aliphatic resin glue, which is usually white, made by Titebond and others. I also use it for all my guitarbuilding. I have a tiny benchtop refrigerator in my shop and keep the glue in there to prolong usable life. Gorilla glue is not recommended as a viable Lutherie glue. Great glue, just not for instrument building.

[Mike Glaze]

John - most commercial guitar builders use Aliphatic resin glue, which is usually white, made by Titebond and others. I also use it for all my guitarbuilding. I have a tiny benchtop refrigerator in my shop and keep the glue in there to prolong usable life. Gorilla glue is not recommended as a viable Lutherie glue. Great glue, just not for instrument building.

Shiraz Balolia

You are the owner of Grizzly Industrial Inc? I used to be a dealer for John Suhr electric guitars. I seen a Grizzly ad with John Suhr in it at one time, so apparently he is using quite a bit of your machinery? John Suhr makes the best electric Strat style guitars I have ever played for what I prefer.

What type of guitars do you build?

I'm actually thinking of getting a Grizzly bandsaw.

Thanks

Mike

[Mike Glaze]

Doug, what you say makes a lot of sense and was just what I thought. The internet is full of information and one can be exposed to a vast amount of ideas, but much of it is a bit conflicting. I'm starting my first acoustic steel string and just gathering info. I plan on picking one or two reputable teaching books and go from there.

Yes Ken, I read Shariz's article and have seen his work. Very very impressive. His inlay work is remarkable.

John

One of the best books on building acoustic and classical guitars that I have ever seen is called: 'Guitarmaking Tradition and Technology' by William R. Cumpiano and Jonathan D. Natelson. I have a copy of this book, but I do not know if it is still in print because I bought mine over ten years ago. It's a complete manual on building from start to finish, but there are many different styles/techniques of guitar making and every builder has his or her own best way of doing things. This is why you may be seeing conflicting ideas on the net as you put it.

I'm getting back into woodworking in a big way, but I do not want to build guitars. My main interest is in playing electric guitar. As far as woodworking goes I want to build furniture and do some lathe work. I have made electric guitars over ten years ago and did a ton of finishing work on electric guitars for a company I used to work for. I play a Suhr Strat today.

Acoustics you should check out for ideas are Seagull, Taylor, Martin and Collings. I feel the Seagull is the best budget solid wood acoustic on the market. Martin and Taylor rule the medium to high end acoustic guitar market and they are the two most important players. Collings builds some of the very best high end acoustic guitars ever made. If I was going to buy the best new acoustic guitar made in my opinion I would buy a Collings(very expensive though). The best sounding vintage acoustic guitar I ever played was a Martin bar none. Some of those old Martins acoustics are incredible.

Mike

[Vaughn McMillan]

...I have one of Grizzly's fantastic kits for an electric that I hope to begin the build process on very soon. ...
I'm severely jealous, Keith. I'd like to build one of those exact kits, but I'm waiting until I can justify the cost for yet another guitar. There are tools I currently need more than another guitar. I also need to wait until my wood finishing skills are a bit more honed. But man, I lust for that kit. :o


Shiraz Balolia...

What type of guitars do you build?

I'm actually thinking of getting a Grizzly bandsaw.

Here's an example (http://www.grizzly.com/sbguitar/sbguitar.aspx) of some of Shiraz's work, Mike. I think he's got it down. :p ;)

And based on my early experience with my Shop Fox bandsaw, I don't think you'd regret getting a Grizzly bandsaw.

- Vaughn

[john whittaker]

Mike, The hard cover "Guitarmaking" by William R. Cumpiano and Jonathan D. Natelson is currently out of print but paperback is available and on order. This has been a frequently recommended book.

I've been researching guitar making for quite some time and feel called to pursue it. It will probably become a life long learning curve/passion for me. I'm not trying to make a living from guitar building, just quenching my creativity gene.

Thanks for all the replies.

[Marcus Ward]

You might want to have a look at stew mac and see what they say.

http://www.stewmac.com/

[Keith Foster]

I'm severely jealous, Keith. I'd like to build one of those exact kits, but I'm waiting until I can justify the cost for yet another guitar. I hear ya loud and clear. My tool budget went ape this year in a BIG way (lots of Grizzly green traded places with the American green from my wallet). :rolleyes: BUT - you have got to see one of these kits in person. The maple figure is really outstanding.

I've been wanting to pick the guitar back up again after abandoning it when I was but a teen. Managed to trade an old computer for a Squeir Strat in August and get back in the game. That led to the purchase of a nice swamp ash blank so I could build one myself. Haven't started that one yet. Now I've got two to build, the Strat to play, my daughter gave me her old Gibson, and I just picked up the Yamaha. :eek:

[Corvin Alstot]

On guitars being built nowadays you're probably likely to find 2-4 different types of glue on any one guitar, depending on whether or not the joint might need to be taken apart in the future. Laminating up a neck for instance is not something you ever want to have come apart, so something permanent is called for - Titebond, Urea, epoxy, etc. Something like a bridge, the top/back plate to kerfing, or the neck to body joint might need to be dis-assembled in the future, so hide glue is often used there. Installing inlay on the headstock or fretboard seem to be mostly done with cyano's or epoxy. As near as I can tell, there's no ONE glue that does it all for instrument building. Doug has it right titebond, epoxy, and hide glues are all used. Common white glues, PVA types are to be avoided as they may slide under extreme stress. The books I own on guitar building recommend titebond and particularly recommend Humbrol Carpenters glue, it is white in color but dries to a transparent film. You also need to be carefully when glueing rosewood because of the natural oils.

[Mike Glaze]

I'm severely jealous, Keith. I'd like to build one of those exact kits, but I'm waiting until I can justify the cost for yet another guitar. There are tools I currently need more than another guitar. I also need to wait until my wood finishing skills are a bit more honed. But man, I lust for that kit. :o


Here's an example (http://www.grizzly.com/sbguitar/sbguitar.aspx) of some of Shiraz's work, Mike. I think he's got it down. :p ;)

And based on my early experience with my Shop Fox bandsaw, I don't think you'd regret getting a Grizzly bandsaw.

- Vaughn

Vaughn

Shiraz does extremely nice work. The inlay work on the Shiraz guitars is as nice as I have seen on anything. That's right up there with the PRS Dragon guitars inlay work(for those of you who have seen it) and that stuff is over the top. I would love to know what machinery he used to do the inlay work because that is something I have not done much of.

Mike