replacing plane blade

[Tom Bussey]

This is just my personal opinion but I think that the Keen Kutter K series planes are the best bang for the buck when it comes to metal planes. I am restoring a Keen Kutter K5 for myself. The blade needs a little help and I am considering an after market blade I use an ECE smoothing plane and it has an A2 blade I believe. As a Tool and Die Maker mostly dies I have a lot of experience with A2 and I am not a big fan of O1. It has limited usage in die making. The cutting edge doesn't hold up.

Anyway I am considering an aftermarket blade of either A2 or PMV-11. I hear that the PMV-11 edge holds up better than A2 but isn't any more time consuming than A2 when sharpening..

I would like too hear from those who have experience with either blade types, both the pros and cons. and why you chose what you did choose.

I would like to thank you in advance for your answers and your time writing them

[glenn bradley]

I can only speak from my experience. I am not one of those to spend a lot of time doing comparison testing BUT, my sincere thanks to those that do and share their information here ;-) I sharpen PM-v11 like everything else and don't notice any significant differences. That is, if there is a difference, it hasn't been prominent enough for me to actually notice. I use a variety of media for sharpening as I have a variety of cutters to sharpen. The basic maintenance rig is DMT Dia-Sharp stones and a strop. I re-shape or repair nicks on a grinder or the Worksharp 3K. I use a Veritas MK-II or Kell guides.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Tom, My experience is limited. My A2 blades are on two of my LN planes. The #62 low angle jack received the most use as a shooting plane. The bevel was kept at 25º. It tended to chip a bit.

My experience with PM-v11 has mostly been with a spoke shave from Lee Valley. It was an introductory offering of their first PM-v11 blades. It has held up well and sharpens much easier than the A2 blades. It has held its edge longer than any of my other blades.

My Veritas Shooting Plane has a PM-v11 blade but has only seen limited use so far.

My A2 blades need water stones to be sharpened. The PM-v11 blades can be sharpened on my Arkansas stones.

It seems a bit odd a blade can be easier on the stones yet tougher on the wood. That does seem to be the case.

jtk

[James Pallas]

Hi Tom, I have 17, I think, PMV11 plane irons. I don’t find them difficult to deal with. If I reshape I use a grinder. My usual is to use and extra fine diamond hone, than an extra extra fine diamond hone, than strop on hard leather with green. I also have a Sigma stones but find that to be a bit of a mess for maybe some small improvement. I only work a small, maybe 1/32 bevel for the final. I have worked them on India’s and Arkansas’s and that works too. Way easier to work with than A2 and doesn’t chip nearly as easy. I like it.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Between V11 and A2, it's V11 hands down. Between V11 and good carbon steel I might favor the carbon steel, but could live with V11.

I'd rather have hardware store Chrome Vanadium steel than A2.

[Curt Putnam]

Tom - PM-V11 can get as sharp as O1 and can deal with angles of < 25° (which A2 can not). At any angle and in any wood, PM-V11 outlasts A2. PM-V11 only takes just a bit more to hone than O1. The only negative to it is that it costs more than O1

[Tom Bussey]

I find the post favoring carbon steel interesting. I believe Hock makes blades out of 1095 and anything 1060 or over carbon steel is full hardening. It has a very fine grain structure but is also very sensitive to heat. If regrinding even if you get it near light stray brown you are pulling the hardness out. It can be real tuohy, then O1 then A2. Robert said he said he prefered a carbon steel blade to A2 and since I asked for opinions he is correct with what he likes and I respect that.. I do not see any advantage to a hock carbon blade verses a stock blade so I an not going to consider one but I am leaning toward the PMV-11 blade.

Thanks again,

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I find the post favoring carbon steel interesting. I believe Hock makes blades out of 1095 and anything 1060 or over carbon steel is full hardening. It has a very fine grain structure but is also very sensitive to heat. If regrinding even if you get it near light stray brown you are pulling the hardness out. It can be real tuohy, then O1 then A2. Robert said he said he prefered a carbon steel blade to A2 and since I asked for opinions he is correct with what he likes and I respect that.. I do not see any advantage to a hock carbon blade verses a stock blade so I an not going to consider one but I am leaning toward the PMV-11 blade.

Thanks again,

For sure I would lean towards PM-V11 since it seems to have very good edge retention.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?282630-Getting-PMV-11-Sharp&p=3019353#post3019353

[Thomas Crawford]

Where do you find V11 replacement irons for older planes? I have #3 Bedrock and a 65 block plane I need to replace.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Where do you find V11 replacement irons for older planes? I have #3 Bedrock and a 65 block plane I need to replace.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/blades/42607-stanley-record-bench-plane-blades-made-by-veritas

$48.50 for a 1 3/4" blade out of PM-V11

[Thomas Crawford]

Thanks I never knew they had those. Unfortunately they don't make one for my #65 block plane but I'll be grabbing some for other planes.

Any reason to replace the chipbreakers?

[Charles Guest]

I'd love to know what The Over the Hill Gang does with all the extra "edge retention" being touted in this thread. I'm imagining unbridled, vigorous planing for hours on end, well, maybe not. Some of you blokes look as old as me, and that's pretty hard to do. Do you all hate honing that much? Enough to swap out a bunch of perfectly good cutters?

[steven c newman]

I simply require the edge to last through at least one project.....right now, most are on their 4th projects....haven't needed honed yet. All are OEM irons....some Stanleys, and some Millers Falls. Would hate to pay more for a simple iron, than I did for the entire plane.

Have seen a few out there, that have a big pile of micron thin shavings, trying to surface a single board......taking all day, for what should be 5 minutes of work.....and that's IF I milk the job.....

[Jim Koepke]

I'd love to know what The Over the Hill Gang does with all the extra "edge retention" being touted in this thread. I'm imagining unbridled, vigorous planing for hours on end, well, maybe not. Some of you blokes look as old as me, and that's pretty hard to do. Do you all hate honing that much? Enough to swap out a bunch of perfectly good cutters?

Just 'cause we are Over the Hill it doesn't mean we are out of gas! :D

Here is an image from a project done not long ago:

432732

There were 24 rails with a few spares used on that project.

Another project has given me some planing to do:

432733

Most of the shavings were on the floor. That plank gave me more than two garbage barrels of shavings to use in our wood stove.

Of interest may be both of these planes having Stanley blades installed at the time of use.

Lots more where those came from.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

Just 'cause we are Over the Hill it doesn't mean we are out of gas! :D

Here is an image from a project done not long ago:

432732

There were 24 rails with a few spares used on that project.

Another project has given me some planing to do:

432733

Most of the shavings were on the floor. That plank gave me more than two garbage barrels of shavings to use in our wood stove.

Of interest may be both of these planes having Stanley blades installed at the time of use.

Lots more where those came from.

jtk

Alas, I can't see the photos. I haven't gotten round to subscribing though clearly I should soon.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Thanks I never knew they had those. Unfortunately they don't make one for my #65 block plane but I'll be grabbing some for other planes.

Any reason to replace the chipbreakers?

Before I would replace anything, I would ask why? The back will come flat. The blade will hold an edge better. The chip breaker will be stiffer and probably make better contact. All those things said, Do you need a new blade? As Steve pointed out, if you do not need to sharpen during your project and if it cuts well, you probably do not need it. The largest concern is that their blades are 25% thicker than standard blades and for some planes, this may mean that you need to open the mouth a bit with a file. You might not, but you might. Some others can weigh in here I think. In theory, the thicker blade should work better. If I replaced one, I would replace both' the extra cost to replace both is not significant.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/blades/100620-stanley-record-cap-irons-with-veritas-bench-plane-blade

<edit from here>

I expect that on average, you can simply move the frog back rather than taking a file to the mouth of the plane to open it.

[Jim Koepke]

I expect that on average, you can simply move the frog back rather than taking a file to the mouth of the plane to open it.

The sizing of plane mouths changed at times. It may have been common in every type due to casting variances.

Even with the frog fully back my type 7 - #7 has a very tight mouth for a jointer.

jtk

[Thomas Crawford]

Just 'cause we are Over the Hill it doesn't mean we are out of gas! :D

Here is an image from a project done not long ago:

432732


jtk

That's a clever edge planing jig - do you have more details?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

The sizing of plane mouths changed at times. It may have been common in every type due to casting variances.

Even with the frog fully back my type 7 - #7 has a very tight mouth for a jointer.

jtk

I think that the same is true with my old #8 that has a Lie Nielsen blade installed in it; it was there when I purchased it. It is on my list of things to look at.

[Jim Koepke]

That's a clever edge planing jig - do you have more details?

Here is an old post on it:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?223428

The #9 post has a link to The Woodwright's Shop episode where this and other "viceless" holding methods are demonstrated.

This one is great when doing repetitive pieces for its quick change abilities.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

That's a clever edge planing jig - do you have more details?

It was in one of the woodworking magazines, but I do not remember which magazine.

[Jim Matthews]

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/blades/42607-stanley-record-bench-plane-blades-made-by-veritas

$48.50 for a 1 3/4" blade out of PM-V11

Worth every penny!

[Jim Matthews]

Just 'cause we are Over the Hill it doesn't mean we are out of gas! :D

Here is an image from a project done not long ago:

432732

There were 24 rails with a few spares used on that project.

Another project has given me some planing to do:

432733

Most of the shavings were on the floor. That plank gave me more than two garbage barrels of shavings to use in our wood stove.

Of interest may be both of these planes having Stanley blades installed at the time of use.

Lots more where those came from.

jtk

You building an a boat?